Roast Stephen Hill

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blue shark said:
Pavlich's game against Brisbane was just as ordinary as Hill's, you have games that are ugly, especially when the opposition play so defensive.
When Lower comes back in, he will do the 1% and block, shepard for Hill.
With Lower, Silvagni, Neale waiting in the wings, Ross has plenty to work with, unlike last year.
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One name.

De Pig.

Get him out of the forward line and into the midfield.

Lower hunts the ball when he gets the chance, and goes whenever it's around him but he doesn't run especially hard defensively. He will shepherd and block, but De Pig would have to be our most team-orientated player. He blocks, shepherds, tackles, hunts the player with the ball and runs defensively.

He's wasted in the forward line. We need that kind of application in the middle.
 

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Wigarus said:
In the last 2 games he has more contested possessions than uncontested.

I think that Lyon has given him a directive to win the contested ball and I think that He values him enough to give him time to do it.

I can't find Hills 2011 contested possession stats, but I think he's doing not too bad this year. It is round 3 remember?
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According to the AFL Prospectus he averaged 6.9 CP and 10.9 UP. 38.7% of his possesions were contested.
 
Nickos66 said:
Raines will never have an impact, but generally speaking..
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Was polkinghorne not raines.

Falkon said:
You can't question Hills work ethic.
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I reckon we can question his work ethic, goes missing for extended periods of the game. Also he is now having brain fades and his lack of awareness is getting ridiculous.

Look back at that 1st quarter vs Brisbane for the holding the ball free kick he gave away. Had no idea of his surroundings at all.

Ask KPR, i've been calling for him to be dropped back to the WAFL for a good 12-18 months. We may expect more out of Hill than most players but only because the guy is that talented and we only see glimpses every game. You could count on one hand the number of games he has dominated.
 
pistol17 said:
Was polkinghorne not raines.



I reckon we can question his work ethic, goes missing for extended periods of the game. Also he is now having brain fades and his lack of awareness is getting ridiculous.

Look back at that 1st quarter vs Brisbane for the holding the ball free kick he gave away. Had no idea of his surroundings at all.

Ask KPR, i've been calling for him to be dropped back to the WAFL for a good 12-18 months. We may expect more out of Hill than most players but only because the guy is that talented and we only see glimpses every game. You could count on one hand the number of games he has dominated.
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and i have been disagreeing with you for 12-18 months ;)
 
Latro said:
How does dropping him to WAFL teach how to handle a tag.
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Will make him work harder. Look at Lyon and what he did with Dal Santo, sent him to the VFL and his form has been great ever since. Why is there special treatment for players with obvious talent? I think everyone gets caught in the "oh but he's only one game away from his best form". Absolute crap to be honest.

Should duffield have gone back to the WAFL for shirking a contest? Of course he should have. Jack Anthony didnt offer much as a forward, should he get dropped? Yes and he did. Did Crowley get a gig with his form last year? Not often... Yet Hill gets the special treatment because of what he "could" do, not what he "is" doing.

Players shouldnt get games on talent alone, form has to and must be a factor.

Apologies for the rant but knowing how good this bloke could be or should be is very frustrating. Should be one of the premier mids by now but is far from it.
 
It's pretty rare for talented players to get dropped these days. Paddy Ryder's form practically demanded it last year but he was retained.

I often wonder how the coaches look at it. Someone like Daniel Rich only needs a couple of kicks to break a zone or hit a forward target and change the momentum of a game. He might only get 12 possessions for the game, but do a couple of things that cause you to win.

I guess as fans we look at their ceiling and expect them to play at that level, whereas coaches are only looking for whether players are playing their role effectively and better than their opponents. That said, to be premiers you need more than just everyone playing a role. You need highly talented players playing at a high level of effort.

Is Hill that kind of player? Evidence so far says no. He works hard, he has talent, but it doesn't seem that he has the same will to win as the talented individuals that form the core of premiership sides.

This weekend against St Kilda should be interesting. Jones will go to him, and he's now probably the best tagger in the league. Lyon will know exactly what's coming. How Hill competes, and what strategies Lyon has in place to break Hill free, might help us win.
 
Clay Davis said:
It's pretty rare for talented players to get dropped these days. Paddy Ryder's form practically demanded it last year but he was retained.

I often wonder how the coaches look at it. Someone like Daniel Rich only needs a couple of kicks to break a zone or hit a forward target and change the momentum of a game. He might only get 12 possessions for the game, but do a couple of things that cause you to win.

I guess as fans we look at their ceiling and expect them to play at that level, whereas coaches are only looking for whether players are playing their role effectively and better than their opponents. That said, to be premiers you need more than just everyone playing a role. You need highly talented players playing at a high level of effort.

Is Hill that kind of player? Evidence so far says no. He works hard, he has talent, but it doesn't seem that he has the same will to win as the talented individuals that form the core of premiership sides.

This weekend against St Kilda should be interesting. Jones will go to him, and he's now probably the best tagger in the league. Lyon will know exactly what's coming. How Hill competes, and what strategies Lyon has in place to break Hill free, might help us win.
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For Hills development I'd love for him to just follow an opponent around. When we play Carlton next week, I would love to see Hill go stand next to Judd. I guarantee he will then know what hard work is, that guy gets to more contests than most others. Will develop his defensive side of his game and make him work harder.
 
For Hills development I'd love for him to just follow an opponent around. When we play Carlton next week, I would love to see Hill go stand next to Judd. I guarantee he will then know what hard work is, that guy gets to more contests than most others. Will develop his defensive side of his game and make him work harder.
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^^ Agree 100% with this. Get him to line up on the best. He can only learn and knowledge is power.

Hilly with Judd's knowledge....... scary
 

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pistol17 said:
For Hills development I'd love for him to just follow an opponent around. When we play Carlton next week, I would love to see Hill go stand next to Judd. I guarantee he will then know what hard work is, that guy gets to more contests than most others. Will develop his defensive side of his game and make him work harder.
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There are worse tags that we could drop onto Judd. Crowley for example. ;)

I do think Hill could learn a lot from that match-up, but his tackling isn't really up to snuff to cope with Judd... which'd be the only downer there. Much as Crowley sh*ts me, him or McPhee are a better match up for Judd than Hill is. I'd be hoping that De Boer would pick him up over either of the others though.

I reckon Hill would learn a heap from being played on someone like Sam Mitchell. That's a match-up I'd like to see for a while at least. Or Mark Murphy. Both of those guys are tagged most weeks and still find a ton of the ball.
 
Watching Hills kicking on the weekend, part of the problem is he takes so long to load up, thats why he is beginning to get caught.

You look at G.Ablett. He takes about 2 steps to kick something 95% of what hill can generate.
 
Hill is 4th in contested possessions for us so far this year, 4th in centre clearances, 1st for running bounces, and 3rd for inside 50's.

And some of you want to drop him to the WAFL? :rolleyes:

What he needs to improve on is confidence and a bit more arrogance. He's too timid by far. There was that segment in preseason of Ross being miked up and he talked to both Jay van Berlo and to Hill. Both times Ross challenged the player to think for himself. Stephen was much more timid in his response. Maybe I'm overanalyzing things, but to me it seems like he is trying too hard to do the right thing (giving the coach the answer the coach wanted in that segment for example) and it results in some indecisiveness on the field.

He has to learn to trust his instincts, to be confident enough that he can beat the taggers, etc. But that's not an overnight process. It's also not something you learn by playing below your level. I think Ross knows this and is challenging Hill to think more for (and of) himself. And I'd back Hill in to fight through it.
 
How many seasons did Wells take to come good? I'm not suggesting he will take as long but some more fragile talents simply take longer, he's certainly doing enough to hold his spot that is for sure.

Not sure if I like the Hill on Judd suggestion, being in the same place as Judd will just result in him getting beaten to the ball (confidence?) and Judd given absolute free reign, we won't beat the Blues if Judd has a blinder.
 
sabre_ac said:
How many seasons did Wells take to come good? I'm not suggesting he will take as long but some more fragile talents simply take longer, he's certainly doing enough to hold his spot that is for sure.

Not sure if I like the Hill on Judd suggestion, being in the same place as Judd will just result in him getting beaten to the ball (confidence?) and Judd given absolute free reign, we won't beat the Blues if Judd has a blinder.
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Id like to see Judd at the same age go head to head with Hill. Or Hill play in the 05-06 team with Cousins, Kerr or fletcher taking the hard tag and contests where the team was the dominant team in the competition.

If we are going down this road why not get Nic Nat to go head to head with Sandi full game ( obviously no Cox ) as its head to head.

Or watts go head to head with Pav...

Belkinator you're entitled to your opinion, and obviously don't like Hill but have to disagree with you.
 
.... In a team who dominated and had 4 genuine A-grade midfielders that took heavier tags. It's a sad state if you're giving someone a roast and comparing him with a two time brownie medalist and norm smith winner.
 
West Coast didn't dominate in 2004, Judd's third year. He was their best player that year, one of the best in the league

You're the one who compared Judd and Hill at the same age. At age 21 Judd was a better player than Hill will ever be. Simple fact.
 
more_of_bito said:
.... In a team who dominated and had 4 genuine A-grade midfielders that took heavier tags. It's a sad state if you're giving someone a roast and comparing him with a two time brownie medalist and norm smith winner.
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Judd got the no.1 tag basically every game from 2005 onwards. thats why he got suspended for whacking Baker etc.
 
Do you mean 06 onwards when cousins lost the tag and won the Brownlow. So Judd got his first year with a hard tag 3 years into his career?

Since 06 he's copped a hard tag, then for 3 more years in a weaker carlton midfield. Only when Murphy and Gibbs finally developed last year that the attention was taken away and "won" the Charlie.

Either way your argument is still based around comparisons with Judd and Ablett, good company to be in btw. If Hill turns into our Wells I'm still a very happy man. If, as I believe Fyfe, barlow will get much more attention in years to come Hill will become a premier player and this thread should be bumped.
 
Clay Davis said:
West Coast didn't dominate in 2004, Judd's third year. He was their best player that year, one of the best in the league

You're the one who compared Judd and Hill at the same age. At age 21 Judd was a better player than Hill will ever be. Simple fact.
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you said the year he won brownlow and On the way to a norm smith so my reference was to 05, and that was the year they dominated I never mentioned 04.

If you want to speak about 04, agree judd was Eagles B&F but guarantee he was not tagged anywhere near as much as Hill was last year. Fletcher and cousins would have got the first two tags.
 

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