Analysis Some data on Crows avg games experience from 23/24

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NSolis said:
I agree that we should be cycling through the low end of the list but I think this is harder than it sounds. You don't just want to discard a respectable role player who is never going to win a BnF but does a solid job week to week while adding leadership and experience to try an unknown player just because you haven't seen them in the AFL and they might be an upgrade. This sort of thing is appealing to fans because of the excitement of an unknown new player, but the club has seen plenty of everyone on the list and I'm fine with them being selective with first team promotions.

I think there is a bit of a problem with selecting who lands on that 'solid role player' tier. Ben Keays is a good example in my mind, Ned McHenry not so much.
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In a rebuilding phase selections should be based entirely around making a premiership team

This largely means identifying and predicting who the best players will be in the future, not selecting who is slightly better now

At times this might mean selecting a few experienced players instead of potentially better juniors, but the only reason to do that should be because playing too many juniors hurts their development. You do need some leaders and bigger bodies at times. And it's important these players are true leaders, not fake leaders that only have experience

So yes, clubs in a rebuilding phase should be discarding the experienced role player for the junior if the role player has little chance of being part of a premiership team. Because premierships are the only thing that matters

Some clubs like the Crows instead focus on stupid metrics like winning in a given week or make the eight and anything can happen, rather than the longer term goal of winning a flag. So we decide that a mediocre experienced role player is a lock too early, and by the time we finally figure out they actually aren't going to be part of a premiership team they've played too many games and we have to trial someone else, starting again from a weaker position than we would have been had we prioritised greater potential to begin with
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
I think you and Carmo have missed your own point.

Everyone knows that inexperienced teams lose more often. That's a given and didn't need forensic analysis because every football fan with even half a clue realises this.

And we've been a young team for a number of years and still are. Again, every single football fans knows this. You haven't discovered anything.

The question is why?

Because we do stuff like not picking Josh Worrell for years. So he now contributes to this "inexperience" only because we didn't pick him. Him being inexperienced is a choice made by us.

We'll keep Jake Kelly in the team ahead of Tom Doedee. Pedlar a first round pick midfielder can be in his fourth season here without playing a game in the midfield. We'll pick Douglas and Mackay deep into finals-less seasons, even though we're not offering them a contract the following season. We'll give a bunch of young players a few games without sticking and instead yo yo them in and out of the team for years. Not moving the squad forward (Gallucci, Poholke, Himmelberg, Hamill, Sholl, Frampton, Fogarty, MacPherson, Schoenberg, Gollant, Berry, Hateley, Parnell, Cook...)

Spinning our wheels. Not identifying, not investing. Not climbing the experience ladder.

We stay inexperienced.

And when we do invest it's in low-skill types like Murphy and McHenry who will have to eventually be replaced by draftees when we finally come to our senses. Which sends us tumbling back down the experience ladder. Perennial inexperience, generated by us, by choice.

So Carmo, in answer to your thread. Yeah, everyone knows all that.

Everything we've done has led us to this point. This is what you get when we select teams like we do.
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This Up Here GIF by Chord Overstreet


Not only is this a great rebuttal to some resident nuffies, it should be emailed to the club.
 
Samcro24 said:
This Up Here GIF by Chord Overstreet


Not only is this a great rebuttal to some resident nuffies, it should be emailed to the club.
Click to expand...

Seriously, fancy being that far lost that you do an 'analysis' of AFL team performance by deliberately ignoring player qualitative factor. Not surprising there is one major fan who couldn't jump on quick enough though.
 
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I think you can also differentiate between the players as well, I can understand them backing in Brodie Smith as he has been a high level player for us over a number of years being out of form, but playing him injured due to experience helps no one - not the team or the player, same as Tex, him playing injured doesn’t help the team or him.

Picking Murphy in a peripheral ‘role’ due to experience at the expense of a player with a higher upside makes absolutely zero sense.
 
kirky said:
I’m not sure about this - “we still been there about had the CM didn’t happen”.

We were 2nd oldest side going into 2018 and we had lost 3 of our better youngsters. CM wasn’t the issue in 2018 - losing Lever, McGovern and Cameron were.
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Well, we were premiership contenders so of course we were one of the oldest side and still had a list to be premiership contenders for a few years which would have allow for a smoother list turnover. Lever would have been the most difficult to replace (Doedee was excellent though) but not so much McGovern and Cameron wasn't the player he is now at Brisbane.
 
I think there are some clear examples as well of why bringing in experience for the sake of it doesn't help

Take Carlton in one of their many rebuilds. For a period there they brought in Matthew Wright, Rhys Palmer, Billie Smedts, Alex Silvagni, Darcy Lang, Matthew Lobbe, Aaron Mullett, Cam O'Shea, Matt Shaw, Alex Fasolo, Tomas Bugg and Jack Newnes

That's 1063 games of experience brought in across 12 list spots. All of them were known to be average or crap before they were brought in. What did that achieve? 191 games wasted, every single one of them delisted, none contributing to a premiership or even finals

Melbourne from 2012 to 2016 brought in Chris Dawes, David Rodan, Shannon Byrnes, Daniel Cross, Jeff Garlett, Heretier Lumumba, Thomas Bugg, and Ben Kennedy.

961 games of experience in, 8 list spots. Played 269 games, none of them did anything. They also brought in even some decent experience like Bernie Vince and Jordan Lewis. Across all those years they only found one premiership player in Michael Hibberd. But they drafted six premiership players with zero experience.

Even Richmond got sucked in, bringing in Brad Miller, Aaron Edwards, Chris Knights, Ricky Petterd, Sam Lonergan, Shaun Hampson, Todd Banfield, Matt Thomas, Taylor Hunt, Chris Yarran, Andrew Moore. That's another 884 games of experience brought in and 11 list spots wasted.

Whereas the actual players that contributed to Richmond's flag were drafted during the same period and often taken late in the draft. Kamdyn McIntosh, Jayden Short, Jason Castagna, Kane Lambert, Ivan Soldo, Nathan Broad. 6 premiership players taken with picks after 30 in that period, versus just three experienced trade ins (Grigg, Houli and Townsend, though two played less than 30 games).

And you cannot tell me any significant number of the 31 players I just listed brought in any genuine leadership or development qualities to the team. Maybe Wright at Carlton and Cross at Melbourne. That's it.

Trading in duds because they played a few games and add to the experience count - because the team lacks experience - is the same as continuing to play duds you already have on the list because that experience number is too low. It adds nothing, it does nothing, it doesn't work, and if anything delays progress
 
Just so glad Cartel Igno has access to and/or their own relevant experience of highly paid footy professionals, previous coaches who know the lads history and personality/drive/psychology and our own sports psychs etc to ensure we optimise the young talent on hand. It’s not like one group are elite paid professionals whilst the others are seemingly anonymous online numpties that criticise virtually every single thing about the club




How Josh Worrell became a key part of the Adelaide Crows’ new defence​

Some Crows fans still bristle about the 2019 AFL Draft, but a key part of their 2024 fightback stems from that night, as Adelaide unlocks a key pillar of its defence for the future.


Adelaide thought it had found a key pillar of its defence in the 2019 draft.
The Crows have, it just wasn’t the player heralded as it at the time.

The 2019 draft might be one the Crows fans cringe at with the selection of Fischer McAsey with the sixth pick.

Adelaide’s highest ever draft pick at the time, McAsey quit the Crows and the AFL in 2023 after losing his love for the game following 10 games in the league.

But 22 picks later on the second night of the draft the Crows selected McAsey’s teammate for Vic Metro, Sandringham Dragons and East Brighton - Josh Worrell.

Nearly five years later it is Worrell who is a key part of a Crows backline, that while might not have star names is building nicely.

Worrell has been impressive this season. Picture: Michael Klein

Worrell has been impressive this season. Picture: Michael Klein
It makes the 2019 draft somewhat palatable for Crows fans with national talent manager Hamish Ogilvie saying at the time Worrell “was a big bonus” after he slid having been linked to Geelong in the lead-up - with the Cats spending plenty of time on him.

“He was just too good for us to refuse, with the industry probably saying he’s the most versatile tall athlete in the draft, so we were stoked to get him,” he said.

Worrell’s emergence in the second-half of last year and now solidifying his spot in the backline so far in 2024 has also meant Adelaide has not missed Tom Doedee one bit after he first went down with an ACL and then joined Brisbane - who the Crows play on Sunday - as a free agent.

In the first eight rounds of 2023 Doedee had 17.2 disposals per game, 244m gained, 5.4 marks, two intercept marks and 5.4 spoils.

Over the first eight games of this season Worrell is averaging 18.4 disposals, 330m gained, 6.4 marks, 1.5 intercept marks and six spoils.

For a key defender this has Champion Data rating him as elite for disposals and metres gained, above average for marks and spoils and average for intercept possessions with his 5.9 per game.

While some were saying Doedee’s departure to the Lions was a blow for the Crows, at West Lakes they weren’t all that worried because of Worrell.

Worrell’s journey to a key pillar of the Crows backline has had its challenges.

But those who know the 23-year-old say what he is doing at AFL level is no shock whatsoever.

Now head coach at VFL outfit Frankston, Jackson Kornberg worked closely with Worrell when he was an assistant at Sandringham Dragons.

Kornberg, who also spent two years on the Gold Coast Suns’ coaching panel including coaching its VFL team in 2022, said he had been thrilled with what Worrell was doing at AFL level.

“He has had a great year, he has been backed in and is able to play consistently and I think he is showing a bit of confidence off the back of that really,” he said.

“His strength is his intercept marking and ball use especially and I think everyone is starting to see that, we all knew he had that as a kid.

“So I’m glad he is showing some consistency to get it done.”

Worrell arrived at West Lakes as a raw tall who could play at both ends of the ground.

There was some excitement about his ability as a forward, especially since he was swung up there for Vic Metro in his draft year - finishing as their leading goalkicker in the national championships.

He also played as a ruck when in year 10 in 2017 for school Haileybury - where he had a midfield including Andrew Brayshaw and Charlie Constable to hit down to.

But Kornberg said it was evident pretty quickly that Worrell’s best position was in defence.

“We, myself and Josh Bourke (senior coach) at Dragons, always saw him as a defender,” he said.

“We always thought his strengths were intercept marking, his ability to read the play, and his ball use was really strong – he could kick off both feet and his left foot is really strong.

“So we thought that all suited that intercepting half-back role.

“He played a fair bit there for us at Dragons but Adelaide knew he could play a number of positions, he could go back and could go forward.

“I think it is good that he is settled down there.”

But the time at Sandringham wasn’t always smooth sailing for Worrell.

He missed out on the Dragons’ under 16 squad, after being told his training standards weren’t up to scratch.

Worrell with [PLAYERCARD]Matthew Nicks[/PLAYERCARD] after the Showdown win over Port Adelaide. Picture: Getty Images

Worrell with Matthew Nicks after the Showdown win over Port Adelaide. Picture: Getty Images
It was the rocket that Worrell needed.

“I think there are a number of kids who are in that same boat, Mitch Owens also didn’t make the Dragons under 16s team and look at what he is doing as well,” Kornberg said.

“There is a bit in sort of getting a bit of a setback in under 15s or 16s, in any pathway.

“So I think he had that early setback and he used it as a bit of a fuel for the fire when he came into 17s and 18s at Dragons.

“He played a fair amount of footy as a bottom-ager and then a considerable amount of footy as a top-ager in his draft year.

“Any time they get a bit of a knock early it really fuels them and Josh had that at the Dragons and then at the Crows being made to wait I think was a really sound decision.”

Kornberg said once Worrell decided he wanted to get drafted it was about “coming up with a plan” to show what he needed to clubs and what areas he needed to strengthen and become weapons.

“I helped him with coaching and development but he really drove the ship once we had that chat and he realised he wanted to play AFL footy,” he said.

The term “life of the party” comes up when you ask what Worrell’s personality is like.

“I had a great relationship with him, we really clicked because he is a bit laid back and a bit of a lad but he also wanted to improve and get to the AFL,” Kornberg said.

“He had a bit of a different way of doing things so he had to be driven at times.

“He was a very popular member of the Dragons and I have no doubt that he would be a very popular member of the Crows.

Worrell after he found out he was making his debut. Picture: Roy VanDerVegt

Worrell after he found out he was making his debut. Picture: Roy VanDerVegt
“He is an extrovert, he is a big personality and it is just great to see what he is doing now.”

But it has meant there has been some lessons learnt along the way at the Crows.

Before he played a game, Worrell was stopped by police and while holding a probationary drivers licence was issued an expiation notice for using his phone while driving and having a low level of alcohol in his blood after staying overnight at a teammates house.

He was also late to training in 2021 after being kept up all night by a nearby car alarm and started that year severely behind the eight-ball after fronting up to pre-season unfit and a long way off it.

On the field he made his debut in 2021, Round 13 against St Kilda in Cairns and then didn’t feature at AFL level until Round 20 in 2022.

An injury in pre-season in 2023 meant he didn’t play last season until Round 11, and after Doedee’s season-ending injury he was ever-present for the Crows.

He has continued this in 2024, becoming a key part of Adelaide’s backline.

Kornberg said he was a fan of how the Crows had made Worrell wait.

“From a resilience point of view, a young kid coming through I don’t think it is the worst thing having to wait and ply your trade,” he said.

“He hadn’t really played on senior men before so go and play SANFL and learn how to play on the bigger bodied forwards as well I think has held him in good stead.

“So you look at him now and how much he has grown, he has put on a fair bit of muscle and he can now compete and contend with the bigger boys.

“I suppose coming through the juniors he was a big kid in a tall sense but he wasn’t overall huge.

“He sort of got away with his intercepting ability and his ability to jump off.

“So I think now he can play on those big men.”

At 195cm Worrell does have the height to play as a key defender, but also has the athleticism and ball-skills to be a weapon for the Crows off half-back.

Worrell has been described as a “rare defender”. Picture: Getty Images

Worrell has been described as a “rare defender”. Picture: Getty Images
Kornberg said he was a modern defender.

“He is that rare player, he is also quite quick and agile as well which is quite rare for guys his side,” he said.

“He is an intercepting defender but he has the height to be able to play on monsters, he is deceivingly tall and he has quite long arms on him.

“He sort of has that really rare combination of agility, athleticism, height and couple that with his football ability, he can read the cues as well as anyone I have seen in the pathway.

“He is a really strong pair of hands … he is the mix between a tall defender and a running defender and I think that is really important in the modern game.

“He can do a job whenever he needs to, if he needs to play on a tall he can. If he needs to give some run and carry he can.”

But also, importantly for Kornberg, Worrell’s journey so far has shown to players on the fringes at clubs that it was OK if it didn’t happen for you straight away.

“It is fifth year, it has flown by,” he said.

“And that is what you love about players like this. It has taken him some time to solidify his spot in the team but he has dug in, he hasn’t really whinged or complained.

“It is a great story for guys in the AFL system who are not in the team in their first one or two or three years or not playing consistent footy.

“He was sent to the SANFL to play for a bit, while he needed to improve on some of his defensive stuff clearly.

“But five years in he has clearly solidified his spot in the team, it is a great story for guys in the VFL, the SANFL or WAFL and not sure if there is light at the end of the tunnel.
 
Worrell I think was clearly ready for the AFL before we started picking him there regularly, but I don't think he was ready in his first season at all. I've seen Worrell elsewhere talk about how his standards were poor in his first year at the Crows and he needed a wakeup call and to improve dramatically etc. It was right to hold him back a bit, and that can be true alongside the fact that in 2022 we should have picked him earlier in the year.
 
119others said:
Just so glad Cartel Igno has access to and/or their own relevant experience of highly paid footy professionals, previous coaches who know the lads history and personality/drive/psychology and our own sports psychs etc to ensure we optimise the young talent on hand. It’s not like one group are elite paid professionals whilst the others are seemingly anonymous online numpties that criticise virtually every single thing about the club




How Josh Worrell became a key part of the Adelaide Crows’ new defence​

Some Crows fans still bristle about the 2019 AFL Draft, but a key part of their 2024 fightback stems from that night, as Adelaide unlocks a key pillar of its defence for the future.


Adelaide thought it had found a key pillar of its defence in the 2019 draft.
The Crows have, it just wasn’t the player heralded as it at the time.

The 2019 draft might be one the Crows fans cringe at with the selection of Fischer McAsey with the sixth pick.

Adelaide’s highest ever draft pick at the time, McAsey quit the Crows and the AFL in 2023 after losing his love for the game following 10 games in the league.

But 22 picks later on the second night of the draft the Crows selected McAsey’s teammate for Vic Metro, Sandringham Dragons and East Brighton - Josh Worrell.

Nearly five years later it is Worrell who is a key part of a Crows backline, that while might not have star names is building nicely.

Worrell has been impressive this season. Picture: Michael Klein

Worrell has been impressive this season. Picture: Michael Klein
It makes the 2019 draft somewhat palatable for Crows fans with national talent manager Hamish Ogilvie saying at the time Worrell “was a big bonus” after he slid having been linked to Geelong in the lead-up - with the Cats spending plenty of time on him.

“He was just too good for us to refuse, with the industry probably saying he’s the most versatile tall athlete in the draft, so we were stoked to get him,” he said.

Worrell’s emergence in the second-half of last year and now solidifying his spot in the backline so far in 2024 has also meant Adelaide has not missed Tom Doedee one bit after he first went down with an ACL and then joined Brisbane - who the Crows play on Sunday - as a free agent.

In the first eight rounds of 2023 Doedee had 17.2 disposals per game, 244m gained, 5.4 marks, two intercept marks and 5.4 spoils.

Over the first eight games of this season Worrell is averaging 18.4 disposals, 330m gained, 6.4 marks, 1.5 intercept marks and six spoils.

For a key defender this has Champion Data rating him as elite for disposals and metres gained, above average for marks and spoils and average for intercept possessions with his 5.9 per game.

While some were saying Doedee’s departure to the Lions was a blow for the Crows, at West Lakes they weren’t all that worried because of Worrell.

Worrell’s journey to a key pillar of the Crows backline has had its challenges.

But those who know the 23-year-old say what he is doing at AFL level is no shock whatsoever.

Now head coach at VFL outfit Frankston, Jackson Kornberg worked closely with Worrell when he was an assistant at Sandringham Dragons.

Kornberg, who also spent two years on the Gold Coast Suns’ coaching panel including coaching its VFL team in 2022, said he had been thrilled with what Worrell was doing at AFL level.

“He has had a great year, he has been backed in and is able to play consistently and I think he is showing a bit of confidence off the back of that really,” he said.

“His strength is his intercept marking and ball use especially and I think everyone is starting to see that, we all knew he had that as a kid.

“So I’m glad he is showing some consistency to get it done.”

Worrell arrived at West Lakes as a raw tall who could play at both ends of the ground.

There was some excitement about his ability as a forward, especially since he was swung up there for Vic Metro in his draft year - finishing as their leading goalkicker in the national championships.

He also played as a ruck when in year 10 in 2017 for school Haileybury - where he had a midfield including Andrew Brayshaw and Charlie Constable to hit down to.

But Kornberg said it was evident pretty quickly that Worrell’s best position was in defence.

“We, myself and Josh Bourke (senior coach) at Dragons, always saw him as a defender,” he said.

“We always thought his strengths were intercept marking, his ability to read the play, and his ball use was really strong – he could kick off both feet and his left foot is really strong.

“So we thought that all suited that intercepting half-back role.

“He played a fair bit there for us at Dragons but Adelaide knew he could play a number of positions, he could go back and could go forward.

“I think it is good that he is settled down there.”

But the time at Sandringham wasn’t always smooth sailing for Worrell.

He missed out on the Dragons’ under 16 squad, after being told his training standards weren’t up to scratch.

Worrell with Matthew Nicks after the Showdown win over Port Adelaide. Picture: Getty Images

Worrell with Matthew Nicks after the Showdown win over Port Adelaide. Picture: Getty Images
It was the rocket that Worrell needed.

“I think there are a number of kids who are in that same boat, Mitch Owens also didn’t make the Dragons under 16s team and look at what he is doing as well,” Kornberg said.

“There is a bit in sort of getting a bit of a setback in under 15s or 16s, in any pathway.

“So I think he had that early setback and he used it as a bit of a fuel for the fire when he came into 17s and 18s at Dragons.

“He played a fair amount of footy as a bottom-ager and then a considerable amount of footy as a top-ager in his draft year.

“Any time they get a bit of a knock early it really fuels them and Josh had that at the Dragons and then at the Crows being made to wait I think was a really sound decision.”

Kornberg said once Worrell decided he wanted to get drafted it was about “coming up with a plan” to show what he needed to clubs and what areas he needed to strengthen and become weapons.

“I helped him with coaching and development but he really drove the ship once we had that chat and he realised he wanted to play AFL footy,” he said.

The term “life of the party” comes up when you ask what Worrell’s personality is like.

“I had a great relationship with him, we really clicked because he is a bit laid back and a bit of a lad but he also wanted to improve and get to the AFL,” Kornberg said.

“He had a bit of a different way of doing things so he had to be driven at times.

“He was a very popular member of the Dragons and I have no doubt that he would be a very popular member of the Crows.

Worrell after he found out he was making his debut. Picture: Roy VanDerVegt

Worrell after he found out he was making his debut. Picture: Roy VanDerVegt
“He is an extrovert, he is a big personality and it is just great to see what he is doing now.”

But it has meant there has been some lessons learnt along the way at the Crows.

Before he played a game, Worrell was stopped by police and while holding a probationary drivers licence was issued an expiation notice for using his phone while driving and having a low level of alcohol in his blood after staying overnight at a teammates house.

He was also late to training in 2021 after being kept up all night by a nearby car alarm and started that year severely behind the eight-ball after fronting up to pre-season unfit and a long way off it.

On the field he made his debut in 2021, Round 13 against St Kilda in Cairns and then didn’t feature at AFL level until Round 20 in 2022.

An injury in pre-season in 2023 meant he didn’t play last season until Round 11, and after Doedee’s season-ending injury he was ever-present for the Crows.

He has continued this in 2024, becoming a key part of Adelaide’s backline.

Kornberg said he was a fan of how the Crows had made Worrell wait.

“From a resilience point of view, a young kid coming through I don’t think it is the worst thing having to wait and ply your trade,” he said.

“He hadn’t really played on senior men before so go and play SANFL and learn how to play on the bigger bodied forwards as well I think has held him in good stead.

“So you look at him now and how much he has grown, he has put on a fair bit of muscle and he can now compete and contend with the bigger boys.

“I suppose coming through the juniors he was a big kid in a tall sense but he wasn’t overall huge.

“He sort of got away with his intercepting ability and his ability to jump off.

“So I think now he can play on those big men.”

At 195cm Worrell does have the height to play as a key defender, but also has the athleticism and ball-skills to be a weapon for the Crows off half-back.

Worrell has been described as a “rare defender”. Picture: Getty Images

Worrell has been described as a “rare defender”. Picture: Getty Images
Kornberg said he was a modern defender.

“He is that rare player, he is also quite quick and agile as well which is quite rare for guys his side,” he said.

“He is an intercepting defender but he has the height to be able to play on monsters, he is deceivingly tall and he has quite long arms on him.

“He sort of has that really rare combination of agility, athleticism, height and couple that with his football ability, he can read the cues as well as anyone I have seen in the pathway.

“He is a really strong pair of hands … he is the mix between a tall defender and a running defender and I think that is really important in the modern game.

“He can do a job whenever he needs to, if he needs to play on a tall he can. If he needs to give some run and carry he can.”

But also, importantly for Kornberg, Worrell’s journey so far has shown to players on the fringes at clubs that it was OK if it didn’t happen for you straight away.

“It is fifth year, it has flown by,” he said.

“And that is what you love about players like this. It has taken him some time to solidify his spot in the team but he has dug in, he hasn’t really whinged or complained.

“It is a great story for guys in the AFL system who are not in the team in their first one or two or three years or not playing consistent footy.

“He was sent to the SANFL to play for a bit, while he needed to improve on some of his defensive stuff clearly.

“But five years in he has clearly solidified his spot in the team, it is a great story for guys in the VFL, the SANFL or WAFL and not sure if there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Click to expand...
Isn’t it disturbing then that these highly paid professionals with all their inside knowledge still make mistakes or don’t you think they do? I know for a fact they didn’t think Doedee and Worrell could play together and they didn’t think there was a spot for Worrell because they chose to play a clearly injured Doedee.

How about these gurus changed our game plan because they didn’t think we could defend an attacking game plan even though we had only had the 9th worst defence last year? Because that’s also a fact. The result, we couldn’t score and started the year 0-4, another fact.

But hey, what would us nuffies know?
 
119others said:
Just so glad Cartel Igno has access to and/or their own relevant experience of highly paid footy professionals, previous coaches who know the lads history and personality/drive/psychology and our own sports psychs etc to ensure we optimise the young talent on hand. It’s not like one group are elite paid professionals whilst the others are seemingly anonymous online numpties that criticise virtually every single thing about the club




How Josh Worrell became a key part of the Adelaide Crows’ new defence​

Some Crows fans still bristle about the 2019 AFL Draft, but a key part of their 2024 fightback stems from that night, as Adelaide unlocks a key pillar of its defence for the future.


Adelaide thought it had found a key pillar of its defence in the 2019 draft.
The Crows have, it just wasn’t the player heralded as it at the time.

The 2019 draft might be one the Crows fans cringe at with the selection of Fischer McAsey with the sixth pick.

Adelaide’s highest ever draft pick at the time, McAsey quit the Crows and the AFL in 2023 after losing his love for the game following 10 games in the league.

But 22 picks later on the second night of the draft the Crows selected McAsey’s teammate for Vic Metro, Sandringham Dragons and East Brighton - Josh Worrell.

Nearly five years later it is Worrell who is a key part of a Crows backline, that while might not have star names is building nicely.

Worrell has been impressive this season. Picture: Michael Klein

Worrell has been impressive this season. Picture: Michael Klein
It makes the 2019 draft somewhat palatable for Crows fans with national talent manager Hamish Ogilvie saying at the time Worrell “was a big bonus” after he slid having been linked to Geelong in the lead-up - with the Cats spending plenty of time on him.

“He was just too good for us to refuse, with the industry probably saying he’s the most versatile tall athlete in the draft, so we were stoked to get him,” he said.

Worrell’s emergence in the second-half of last year and now solidifying his spot in the backline so far in 2024 has also meant Adelaide has not missed Tom Doedee one bit after he first went down with an ACL and then joined Brisbane - who the Crows play on Sunday - as a free agent.

In the first eight rounds of 2023 Doedee had 17.2 disposals per game, 244m gained, 5.4 marks, two intercept marks and 5.4 spoils.

Over the first eight games of this season Worrell is averaging 18.4 disposals, 330m gained, 6.4 marks, 1.5 intercept marks and six spoils.

For a key defender this has Champion Data rating him as elite for disposals and metres gained, above average for marks and spoils and average for intercept possessions with his 5.9 per game.

While some were saying Doedee’s departure to the Lions was a blow for the Crows, at West Lakes they weren’t all that worried because of Worrell.

Worrell’s journey to a key pillar of the Crows backline has had its challenges.

But those who know the 23-year-old say what he is doing at AFL level is no shock whatsoever.

Now head coach at VFL outfit Frankston, Jackson Kornberg worked closely with Worrell when he was an assistant at Sandringham Dragons.

Kornberg, who also spent two years on the Gold Coast Suns’ coaching panel including coaching its VFL team in 2022, said he had been thrilled with what Worrell was doing at AFL level.

“He has had a great year, he has been backed in and is able to play consistently and I think he is showing a bit of confidence off the back of that really,” he said.

“His strength is his intercept marking and ball use especially and I think everyone is starting to see that, we all knew he had that as a kid.

“So I’m glad he is showing some consistency to get it done.”

Worrell arrived at West Lakes as a raw tall who could play at both ends of the ground.

There was some excitement about his ability as a forward, especially since he was swung up there for Vic Metro in his draft year - finishing as their leading goalkicker in the national championships.

He also played as a ruck when in year 10 in 2017 for school Haileybury - where he had a midfield including Andrew Brayshaw and Charlie Constable to hit down to.

But Kornberg said it was evident pretty quickly that Worrell’s best position was in defence.

“We, myself and Josh Bourke (senior coach) at Dragons, always saw him as a defender,” he said.

“We always thought his strengths were intercept marking, his ability to read the play, and his ball use was really strong – he could kick off both feet and his left foot is really strong.

“So we thought that all suited that intercepting half-back role.

“He played a fair bit there for us at Dragons but Adelaide knew he could play a number of positions, he could go back and could go forward.

“I think it is good that he is settled down there.”

But the time at Sandringham wasn’t always smooth sailing for Worrell.

He missed out on the Dragons’ under 16 squad, after being told his training standards weren’t up to scratch.

Worrell with Matthew Nicks after the Showdown win over Port Adelaide. Picture: Getty Images

Worrell with Matthew Nicks after the Showdown win over Port Adelaide. Picture: Getty Images
It was the rocket that Worrell needed.

“I think there are a number of kids who are in that same boat, Mitch Owens also didn’t make the Dragons under 16s team and look at what he is doing as well,” Kornberg said.

“There is a bit in sort of getting a bit of a setback in under 15s or 16s, in any pathway.

“So I think he had that early setback and he used it as a bit of a fuel for the fire when he came into 17s and 18s at Dragons.

“He played a fair amount of footy as a bottom-ager and then a considerable amount of footy as a top-ager in his draft year.

“Any time they get a bit of a knock early it really fuels them and Josh had that at the Dragons and then at the Crows being made to wait I think was a really sound decision.”

Kornberg said once Worrell decided he wanted to get drafted it was about “coming up with a plan” to show what he needed to clubs and what areas he needed to strengthen and become weapons.

“I helped him with coaching and development but he really drove the ship once we had that chat and he realised he wanted to play AFL footy,” he said.

The term “life of the party” comes up when you ask what Worrell’s personality is like.

“I had a great relationship with him, we really clicked because he is a bit laid back and a bit of a lad but he also wanted to improve and get to the AFL,” Kornberg said.

“He had a bit of a different way of doing things so he had to be driven at times.

“He was a very popular member of the Dragons and I have no doubt that he would be a very popular member of the Crows.

Worrell after he found out he was making his debut. Picture: Roy VanDerVegt

Worrell after he found out he was making his debut. Picture: Roy VanDerVegt
“He is an extrovert, he is a big personality and it is just great to see what he is doing now.”

But it has meant there has been some lessons learnt along the way at the Crows.

Before he played a game, Worrell was stopped by police and while holding a probationary drivers licence was issued an expiation notice for using his phone while driving and having a low level of alcohol in his blood after staying overnight at a teammates house.

He was also late to training in 2021 after being kept up all night by a nearby car alarm and started that year severely behind the eight-ball after fronting up to pre-season unfit and a long way off it.

On the field he made his debut in 2021, Round 13 against St Kilda in Cairns and then didn’t feature at AFL level until Round 20 in 2022.

An injury in pre-season in 2023 meant he didn’t play last season until Round 11, and after Doedee’s season-ending injury he was ever-present for the Crows.

He has continued this in 2024, becoming a key part of Adelaide’s backline.

Kornberg said he was a fan of how the Crows had made Worrell wait.

“From a resilience point of view, a young kid coming through I don’t think it is the worst thing having to wait and ply your trade,” he said.

“He hadn’t really played on senior men before so go and play SANFL and learn how to play on the bigger bodied forwards as well I think has held him in good stead.

“So you look at him now and how much he has grown, he has put on a fair bit of muscle and he can now compete and contend with the bigger boys.

“I suppose coming through the juniors he was a big kid in a tall sense but he wasn’t overall huge.

“He sort of got away with his intercepting ability and his ability to jump off.

“So I think now he can play on those big men.”

At 195cm Worrell does have the height to play as a key defender, but also has the athleticism and ball-skills to be a weapon for the Crows off half-back.

Worrell has been described as a “rare defender”. Picture: Getty Images

Worrell has been described as a “rare defender”. Picture: Getty Images
Kornberg said he was a modern defender.

“He is that rare player, he is also quite quick and agile as well which is quite rare for guys his side,” he said.

“He is an intercepting defender but he has the height to be able to play on monsters, he is deceivingly tall and he has quite long arms on him.

“He sort of has that really rare combination of agility, athleticism, height and couple that with his football ability, he can read the cues as well as anyone I have seen in the pathway.

“He is a really strong pair of hands … he is the mix between a tall defender and a running defender and I think that is really important in the modern game.

“He can do a job whenever he needs to, if he needs to play on a tall he can. If he needs to give some run and carry he can.”

But also, importantly for Kornberg, Worrell’s journey so far has shown to players on the fringes at clubs that it was OK if it didn’t happen for you straight away.

“It is fifth year, it has flown by,” he said.

“And that is what you love about players like this. It has taken him some time to solidify his spot in the team but he has dug in, he hasn’t really whinged or complained.

“It is a great story for guys in the AFL system who are not in the team in their first one or two or three years or not playing consistent footy.

“He was sent to the SANFL to play for a bit, while he needed to improve on some of his defensive stuff clearly.

“But five years in he has clearly solidified his spot in the team, it is a great story for guys in the VFL, the SANFL or WAFL and not sure if there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Click to expand...

Didn’t bother reading past the bit where you described our paid staff as elite. Good laugh though, well done.
 
George Kramer said:
Isn’t it disturbing then that these highly paid professionals with all their inside knowledge still make mistakes or don’t you think they do? I know for a fact they didn’t think Doedee and Worrell could play together and they didn’t think there was a spot for Worrell because they chose to play a clearly injured Doedee.

How about these gurus changed our game plan because they didn’t think we could defend an attacking game plan even though we had only had the 9th worst defence last year? Because that’s also a fact. The result, we couldn’t score and started the year 0-4, another fact.

But hey, what would us nuffies know?
Click to expand...

“Elite” paid professionals no less.
 

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NSolis said:
I disagree. Throwing a block of games at everyone on the list is dumb. That's what SANFL, internal trials, preseason etc is for, figuring out who needs to be prioritised for first team experience. There's a balance between 'play all the kids until we are 100% sure they are no good' and never trying to upgrade the 22.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately this is what give us false ideas.
 
FR0GGY said:
Unfortunately this is what give us false ideas.
Click to expand...
I think these ideas are much more likely to be to correct than not. Obviously you'll have the odd player who doesn't excel in the SANFL but has AFL potential, but I think usually when they aren't having a huge impact at the lower level it's because they just aren't that good, or at least aren't there yet. And if a player is not showing much anywhere, including SANFL, training, internal trials etc., there's no reason to think they are suddenly going to be a star if exposed to the AFL.
 
NSolis said:
I think these ideas are much more likely to be to correct than not. Obviously you'll have the odd player who doesn't excel in the SANFL but has AFL potential, but I think usually when they aren't having a huge impact at the lower level it's because they just aren't that good, or at least aren't there yet. And if a player is not showing much anywhere, including SANFL, training, internal trials etc., there's no reason to think they are suddenly going to be a star if exposed to the AFL.
Click to expand...
More those that star in the trials that just don’t have it at afl level under pressure.
 
FR0GGY said:
More those that star in the trials that just don’t have it at afl level under pressure.
Click to expand...
Sure maybe, but I think if someone stars in internal trials it makes sense to give them a run at AFL level. They are certainly relevant.
 
NSolis said:
Sure maybe, but I think if someone stars in internal trials it makes sense to give them a run at AFL level. They are certainly relevant.
Click to expand...
You need to be able to identify and weed out the guys who consistently flub it under pressure though.

Some guys look amazing against the traffic cones but completely go to water under pressure.

Collingwood did this with Jaidyn Stephenson. If he played for us, he'd still be in and out of the side and being shunted around and trying to hide him in a role (ala Jones).
 
Everyone missed the most important point from the OP so it looks like I'll have to spell it out for you (I even gave you a clue by the way I divided up that table).

In general a more experienced team beats a less experienced team, however, if you want to assess a team to see if its punching above its average games played weight then the degree to which an inexperienced team is beating more experienced is a good indicator.

As I showed in the table in the OP, we have a good record against teams we are more experienced than AND teams that are up to 20 games more experienced than us. This is a good sign we have a good team developing.

Here is a graph of the ladder as of yesterday against average games played by each team in round 9 ladder as graph.JPG

Any team that's to the left/below the line is punching above its weight, any team to the right/above the line is punching below its weight.

Crows are the big blue dot. Teams we've played are black dots, teams we're yet to play are blue dots.



Given the top teams are typically about 115 games experience, given we perform well against sides that we are with 20 games of experience of, given that 115-20 is 95, given we're currently at about 85 games of experience and given that we have 14 games to go and increase about 0.7 games of average experience per round, by the end of this season we should be at about 95 games of experience and far better placed from an experience perspective to keep right up with the top teams (assuming we don't blend in a heap of youth (by choice or by injury forcing it)).

I could actually make an argument that our average games figure over does our experience level (and therefore we are punching even further above our weight) and that we would actually be better off looking at the count of players less than 100 games, but that's a job for another time.
.
Here's the data table that made up the graph FYI

ladder.JPG
 

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Analysis Some data on Crows avg games experience from 23/24

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