Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay Pt 2 *Pilot Greg Lynn Guilty for the Murder of Carol Clay

[Kurve]

Here is PART 1 Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

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[Xtreme]

For mine I would have said guilty.
Two people are dead, and he's responsible - it'd have to be some Houdini effort otherwise.

 

[gymjam]

The possible location of where the 'mangled slug' and mirror fragments were located by Senior Constable Griffiths. Further in the media article (link below) it details Croucher J gave further 'reminder' instructions to the jurors

Judge reminds jury about prosecution errors on camper trial

The jury in the Greg Lynn murder trial has been reminded of a series of prosecution mistakes after returning to court to ask the judge a question.

www.dailymail.co.uk

My comment: heavy frost will also 'pull' items into soil and that may be the reason the items were buried approx an 'inch' as testified by Griffiths. It could also be possible the slug and bone and mirror fragments had been positioned very close to RH vehicle front left tyre and that is why GL missed these items during his site clean-up on 20th.

 

[GrayRanga]

I've never found any reference to Daniel Porceddu being a KC ?

He's has been admitted to the Victorian Bar and is a "silk" since 2001

The Victorian Courts changed their titles from SC to QC about 10 years ago, most senior barristers applied to the Governor of Victoria to be admitted under the State's Letters Patent as Queen's Counsels and following Lizzie's death, Queen's Council changed King's Council by dent of the changes to the Victorian Letters Patent

He may not applied to the Governor of Victoria to be known as a QC and wished to remain known as a SC (Senior Council)

My posts are generally too long and I was writing for effect in this instance; is a Supreme Court Justice and 2 senior barristers took manslaughter off the table better?

 

[theouthouse]

Interesting that the investigators found evidence that partially collaborated with the original story of GL after the event bar the type of gun used. Then for GL to suggest that the slug, and also glass fragments possibly from the mirror, may have been placed there by the investigators while under oath is pretty funny. Not a lot can be taken from his version of events, I'm pretty sure that has been tested on the stand.

Whatever way forward the law in Victoria needs to toughen up its laws for tampering with evidence and interference with a corpse post this matter, 2 years maximum, I think, for the burning of a body is disproportionate to the act.

One other thing I find odd is why GL made a point to be saying that the laser pointer would have been pointing at the mirror and not at CC when the mirror was shot. It is just an irrelevant detail in his version of events as there is no mention of anyone turning on or off the laser sight or even if it was fitted at that time, let alone for to be on.

 

[Iretired00]

It is just an irrelevant detail in his version of events as there is no mention of anyone turning on or off the laser sight or even if it was fitted at that time, let alone for to be on.

He's spent too long working on this fairy tale and like a goody goody in class wants to boast about the somewhat irrelevant detail he knows or misguided obfuscation.

 

[GladdyDee]

The possible location of where the 'mangled slug' and mirror fragments were located by Senior Constable Griffiths. Further in the media article (link below) it details Croucher J gave further 'reminder' instructions to the jurors
View attachment 2024481

View attachment 2024478

Judge reminds jury about prosecution errors on camper trial

The jury in the Greg Lynn murder trial has been reminded of a series of prosecution mistakes after returning to court to ask the judge a question.

www.dailymail.co.uk

My comment: heavy frost will also 'pull' items into soil and that may be the reason the items were buried approx an 'inch' as testified by Griffiths. It could also be possible the slug and bone and mirror fragments had been positioned very close to RH vehicle front left tyre and that is why GL missed these items during his site clean-up on 20th.

Hopefully Carol Clay, ‘used’ her last name to her advantage, thereby concealing in clay what might crack a guilty verdict - as wacko silly as it sounds, it’d be fitting.

 

[gymjam]

Yellow pointer shows location of long-drop loo and RH/CC campsite; taken from police video.

 

[gymjam]

Hopefully Carol Clay, ‘used’ her last name to her advantage, thereby concealing in clay what might crack a guilty verdict - as wacko silly as it sounds, it’d be fitting.

I can't tell what soil profile is at the campsite and I haven't seen it mentioned in media articles.

 

[gymjam]

Interesting that the investigators found evidence that partially collaborated with the original story of GL after the event bar the type of gun used. Then for GL to suggest that the slug, and also glass fragments possibly from the mirror, may have been placed there by the investigators while under oath is pretty funny. Not a lot can be taken from his version of events, I'm pretty sure that has been tested on the stand.

Whatever way forward the law in Victoria needs to toughen up its laws for tampering with evidence and interference with a corpse post this matter, 2 years maximum, I think, for the burning of a body is disproportionate to the act.

One other thing I find odd is why GL made a point to be saying that the laser pointer would have been pointing at the mirror and not at CC when the mirror was shot. It is just an irrelevant detail in his version of events as there is no mention of anyone turning on or off the laser sight or even if it was fitted at that time, let alone for to be on.

GL probably didn't realize there was such a thing as 'soil or frost heave' due to frost.

It is the main reason bulbs become buried deeper and give-up the will to flower in cold regions; and also why gardeners' ground mulching disappears into the soil profile in colder regions as well.

Frost Heave - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[GardenGnome]

I've lost my Mars Bar...i expected end of day 2 in the poll...

I totally wish I lived in Melbourne or was at least able to see some of the action in court - I’m very grateful for the commentary of those that did attend.

Watching GL’s police interview and then on the stand would have been insightful but also chilling. I would have liked if he had more of a grilling and obscure questions on details external to the events at the time of (alleged) killing.

Would be very interested to know more about the demographics of the jury rather than just 6M6F. For example, age, camping experience, knowledge of guns, critical mind, b*sh*t radar.

 

[GladdyDee]

I totally wish I lived in Melbourne or was at least able to see some of the action in court - I’m very grateful for the commentary of those that did attend.

Watching GL’s police interview and then on the stand would have been insightful but also chilling. I would have liked if he had more of a grilling and obscure questions on details external to the events at the time of (alleged) killing.

Would be very interested to know more about the demographics of the jury rather than just 6M6F. For example, age, camping experience, knowledge of guns, critical mind, b*sh*t radar.

Hoping there’s at least one mansplain intrerpreter

 

[Kurve]

GL probably didn't realize there was such a thing as 'soil or frost heave' due to frost.

It is the main reason bulbs become buried deeper and give-up the will to flower in cold regions; and also why gardeners' ground mulching disappears into the soil profile in colder regions as well.

Frost Heave - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

View attachment 2024572

If Lynn didn't find it in the clean up, might it not stand to reason that the slug found an inch down in the dirt, after going through Clay's head at close range still carried enough force to bury itself in the dirt?

Then according to exactly where it was found and if it did bury itself, it might suggest to me that Clay was crouching low with the shotgun not pointing upwards as you might expect in a struggle but pointing in the down position, which makes it real difficult to reconcile how that happened without getting past the guy rope. I'd suggest he was on the other side of it.

 

[GardenGnome]

If Lynn didn't find it in the clean up, might it not stand to reason that the slug found an inch down in the dirt, after going through Clay's head at close range still carried enough force to bury itself in the dirt?

Then according to exactly where it was found and if it did bury itself, it might suggest to me that Clay was crouching low with the shotgun not pointing upwards as you might expect in a struggle but pointing in the down position, which makes it real difficult to reconcile how that happened without getting past the guy rope. I'd suggest he was on the other side of it.

Yes, this also occurred to me; the article did mention evidence of some force which, as you’ve suggested, tells a lot about the angle at which the shot was made.

Application of basic trigonometry and physics of motion could provide some insight into the position of the weapon.

 

[gymjam]

You make very interesting points GreyRanga.
One thing that i mulled over for a bit last night and today, and then again reading your post...what if the guy wire has something to do with him 'accidently' shooting Carol or Russell? If indeed he was doing his best Elmer Fudd sneaking up stalker-style around the front of the vehicle, with the gun loaded, and he was caught out/startled by Russell/Carol loiteting, and he got tangled in the guy rope after not seeing it, causing him to inadvertantly fire the trigger, killing Russell or Carol.
I know the guy rope has more than a little signifcance to this case, and I do agree, I feelhe was stalking their camp in a somewhat stealth manner.
Just a possible theory, no evidence other than what is already out there...just exercising my brain, thinking of all the possible ways a gun of Lynns ended up in Hill's camp and killed 1 or both of them...
Its is most certainly a very surreal set of circumstances...

It is also possible that GL has been absolutely truthful about everything that occurred, according to his memory.

Why would GL need to stalk people at a campsite? There is however, evidence that RH stalked people by his use of a drone.

I have seen nothing that suggests the guy rope was proven to have been knotted by RH (ie method of tying the knot or DNA buried within the knot) and to me that is a major issue of 'missing crucial' evidence in this case. 'Some' photos taken of the scene some 8 days after the fact, show the guy rope to tied to the bullbar, but it does not appear to have been tied tightly enough at the bullbar end - ie tied in such a way to hold the bullbar end firmly, leaving it open that it may have been interfered with IMO, by 'others' who may have also visited the campsite prior to police arriving on scene or perhaps police whilst capturing video footage. There are reflections in the front-end chrome covered features of RH vehicle that show part head reflections of the police camera operator; I understand the 1st video of the scene was captured on a mobile telephone. Is that correct? And is that an authorized piece of equipment to capture official footage of proposed crime scenes?

There is evidence that an article in the cabin of RH vehicle had been magically transposed from the dashboard on the passenger side, to the headrest of the passenger seat, between with the (alleged) 1st witness to the campsite destruction, and a photo he had captured on the 21st, and the time the police video was captured a few days later. I understand the vehicle cabin had been locked when the 1st witness arrived at the campsite at around 2pm on 21st.


What a scientific breakthrough of miraculous proportions it would be, if somehow one-day, scientists were able to scan the human brain and gain actual evidence as to what is actually held in memory in the human brain, in timeline! There would be no arguing about that detail!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I totally wish I lived in Melbourne or was at least able to see some of the action in court - I’m very grateful for the commentary of those that did attend.

Watching GL’s police interview and then on the stand would have been insightful but also chilling. I would have liked if he had more of a grilling and obscure questions on details external to the events at the time of (alleged) killing.

Would be very interested to know more about the demographics of the jury rather than just 6M6F. For example, age, camping experience, knowledge of guns, critical mind, b*sh*t radar.

Nope, nothing. Which is how it should be. But there are imperfections in the system. With so much information available about everything, literally at your fingertips, it's impossible for any person to not know at least something about a case beforehand. That can lead to conscious or unconscious bias. They can also judge people (consciously or unconsciously) by their faces, words or demeanour. Add to that lawyers cagily putting suggestions into their heads, even when the judge disallows the question or statement and asks the jury to disregard it.

Unless there's a smoking gun suddenly revealing all, as in the TV Perry Mason cases, there's a lot for juries to cope with, without exposing their own personal details.

 

[SJ]

What are the odds of each of the alleged incidents ending in accidental death?

Multiply them together.

Subtract from 100%.

That’s how confident you are that Lynn is guilty of murder.

 

[gymjam]

If Lynn didn't find it in the clean up, might it not stand to reason that the slug found an inch down in the dirt, after going through Clay's head at close range still carried enough force to bury itself in the dirt?

Then according to exactly where it was found and if it did bury itself, it might suggest to me that Clay was crouching low with the shotgun not pointing upwards as you might expect in a struggle but pointing in the down position, which makes it real difficult to reconcile how that happened without getting past the guy rope. I'd suggest he was on the other side of it.

It should have been a naturally required process of investigation by the police forensic team to test ALL various scenarios and then we might have the critical answers to questions and ideas that are now being posed. It seems the relevant forensic team let the team down IMO.

And it would all depend on exactly/precisely where the slug/bones/mirror pieces (the extras) were located in March 2023 as well; I haven't seen a scene map that reveals that information. The 'extras' could have been moved around accidentally (by kicking or being picked up and placed back down,caught in tyres or camping equipment) by 'others' visiting the site and not realizing small pieces of skull (I have read the size) were human and not animal. Television crews had been onsite as well and likely tree removalists (a large tree in the centre of the camp was removed) and camp tidy up crews probably had made site visits.

What a failure not to go over the site sooner, with ground penetrating radar machines and hand held radars. It could also be possible that the damaged slug that was located in 2023, was not one that was fired on 20th. Maybe the CC DNA contamination of that damaged slug, came about due to CC bodily fluids coming into contact with it on the 20th. It could have been left there by another shooter at another point in time, either before the 20th or after the 20th. Could the fired slug still be at the site? IMO the answer to that question is yes.

The site went through 2 winters before the 'extras' were located so frost heave is a real possibility that explains why the damaged slug was buried approximately 1-inch into the soil profile. Perhaps part of the soil profile had also been moved around and altered, when the RH campsite was 'completely' cleaned up by scene cleaners.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

JURORS WARNED ON CAMPERS EVIDENCE

JURORS WARNED ON CAMPERS EVIDENCE

todayspaper.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Underarrest_]

You forgot to add - who was playing loud music.

Argh yes, the loud music. Could GL have caused a confrontation with the loud music?
Whether there was a confrontation about loud music, hunting zones, who’d been the best shooter in their day or the colour of Hill’s pjs, why would Hill put himself and lady friend at incredible risk by firstly taking a gun but secondly leaving the other?

 

[Kurve]

What a failure not to go over the site sooner, with ground penetrating radar machines and hand held radars. It could also be possible that the damaged slug that was located in 2023, was not one that was fired on 20th. Maybe the CC DNA contamination of that damaged slug, came about due to CC bodily fluids coming into contact with it on the 20th. It could have been left there by another shooter at another point in time, either before the 20th or after the 20th. Could the fired slug still be at the site? IMO the answer to that question is yes.

Ballistics tested Lynn's shotgun and matched the slug, I'd think while there might be spent lead all over that valley, it's unlikely the slug in these circumstances came from anywhere else but Lynn's shotgun.

 

[Zidane98]

What are the odds of each of the alleged incidents ending in accidental death?

Multiply them together.

Subtract from 100%.

That’s how confident you are that Lynn is guilty of murder.

Problem with this equation is the fact that two unrelated parties, both seemingly of high standing in their respective lives, ended up in a confrontation in the vast open expanses of the Wonnangatta valley. The odds on this are exponentially low.
I bet there isn't another case of two unrelated parties being involved in a random crime for no logical reason in such a vast, remote place.

 

[Zidane98]

It should have been a naturally required process of investigation by the police forensic team to test ALL various scenarios and then we might have the critical answers to questions and ideas that are now being posed. It seems the relevant forensic team let the team down IMO.

And it would all depend on exactly/precisely where the slug/bones/mirror pieces (the extras) were located in March 2023 as well; I haven't seen a scene map that reveals that information. The 'extras' could have been moved around accidentally (by kicking or being picked up and placed back down,caught in tyres or camping equipment) by 'others' visiting the site and not realizing small pieces of skull (I have read the size) were human and not animal. Television crews had been onsite as well and likely tree removalists (a large tree in the centre of the camp was removed) and camp tidy up crews probably had made site visits.

What a failure not to go over the site sooner, with ground penetrating radar machines and hand held radars. It could also be possible that the damaged slug that was located in 2023, was not one that was fired on 20th. Maybe the CC DNA contamination of that damaged slug, came about due to CC bodily fluids coming into contact with it on the 20th. It could have been left there by another shooter at another point in time, either before the 20th or after the 20th. Could the fired slug still be at the site? IMO the answer to that question is yes.

The site went through 2 winters before the 'extras' were located so frost heave is a real possibility that explains why the damaged slug was buried approximately 1-inch into the soil profile. Perhaps part of the soil profile had also been moved around and altered, when the RH campsite was 'completely' cleaned up by scene cleaners.

Was the site also subject to flooding?

 

[thumbs_up]

Problem with this equation is the fact that two unrelated parties, both seemingly of high standing in their respective lives, ended up in a confrontation in the vast open expanses of the Wonnangatta valley. The odds on this are exponentially low.
I bet there isn't another case of two unrelated parties being involved in a random crime for no logical reason in such a vast, remote place.

It doesn't matter though - the jury aren't being asked to decide whether or not he is probably guilty.

 

[Terrafirma]

Problem with this equation is the fact that two unrelated parties, both seemingly of high standing in their respective lives, ended up in a confrontation in the vast open expanses of the Wonnangatta valley. The odds on this are exponentially low.
I bet there isn't another case of two unrelated parties being involved in a random crime for no logical reason in such a vast, remote place.

Yes and their personalities contributed to this surely. Hill worked in the valley for years and thought this was his backyard. Hill despite his age also thought it ok to leave his wife at home and take a girlfriend to the valley. Not sure this qualifies as high standing but let everyone be the judge of that. Along comes Greg Lynn a hater of noise used to camp in his own backyard to get away from his kids noise, his 1st wife dies in mysterious circumstances subject to a coroner's inquiry. There is someone in this thread who knew him very well and kept saying the truth will come out one day with regards to Lynn, take that for what it's worth IMO. These 2 collide in the middle of nowhere after Hill buys a new drone and names it Fred and is adamant about flying it no matter the rules. Hill also decides to camp next to Lynn because it's his valley. Something has to give but poor Hill is oblivious to the danger of rubbing Lynn up the wrong way because in Lynn's eyes Smith & Wesson created the equalizer and he decides to exercise the equalizer. The well known Lynn temper comes into play. Hill failed to pick his fight that night and it cost him his life. We'll never know exactly what happened because Lynn meticulously dealt with the evidence. If Lynn walks away from this an innocent man this case will go down into the history books and will be remembered for a very long time IMO ...................

 

[Earls Smother]

Problem with this equation is the fact that two unrelated parties, both seemingly of high standing in their respective lives, ended up in a confrontation in the vast open expanses of the Wonnangatta valley. The odds on this are exponentially low.
I bet there isn't another case of two unrelated parties being involved in a random crime for no logical reason in such a vast, remote place.

You've mentioned this before, but the 2 events are unrelated.

The odds of you and I meeting there this weekend are huge. But assume we have met there and one of us dies - it is a completely new set of odds as to whether it was an accident or not. Those odds would change if one of our partners was there and also died. It has nothing to do with how unlikely the meeting was in the first place.

Compare it to conception. The odds of 1 particular sperm reaching the egg and fertilising it are 2 million to 1. But once it has happened, there is new set of odds as to whether it will be male or female. Then you have different odds as to the likelihood of twins etc.

Despite the unlikelihood of the initial meeting, we know categorically that it happened.