Autopsy Round 7, 2023: St.Kilda v Port Adelaide *WOOD 100TH*

[The Punter]

Fair play to Port as well, the way to break us open is to take that really dangerous kick through the middle of the ground from D50, they did it most of the night and it paid dividends.

No question we were a little bit off (even defensively the zone didnt shift quite as quick as previous weeks).

As mentioned no true tall forward killed us, intercept marks and not being able to bring the ball to ground where we wanted it.

Having said all that, 7 point loss to a very good side who were in form without anything remotely resembling a key forward playing easily our worst game so far this year.

Its not panic stations.

I absolutely agree, but if the season goes from this identical point from 2022 in the same way, none of it matters.

We could very easily be the same 8-3 at the break we were last year (defeat NM, Haw and GWS, lose to Adelaide). First game back is interstate.

 

[bird_man]

We’ve lost two games to two top 4 teams by an average of 7 points. The system holds up. Do we need to be scoring more, yes. Defensively we made about 4 crucial errors. Reality our system stacks up. Our guys did not drink their own bath water. We just dropped a game. Frustrating that it was home against Port but so be it.

Port aren't a top 4 team and I don't see then finishing that high.

I think it's a game we should have won, but at the same time it's far from the end of the world. A few really bad mistakes cost us.

We've just gotta make sure we beat a few sides around us I the back end of the year. 7 games game against bottom 4 sides means it's going to be pretty disastrous to miss the 8. If we can beat all those side convincingly and beat a couple of sides around us we are a chance for top 4. If we can't bbeat of few of these sides on Ports level we probably just sneak into the 8.

 

[phantom13]

I absolutely agree, but if the season goes from this identical point from 2022 in the same way, none of it matters.

We could very easily be the same 8-3 at the break we were last year (defeat NM, Haw and GWS, lose to Adelaide). First game back is interstate.

Could definitely fall in a heap but this side and the gamestyle does seem to be made of sterner stuff than last year to me.

King and Jones comeback shortly. Caminiti as well. Hayes, Coff, D-Mac maybe. Billings as depth (to go with a few playing at Sandy right now). Every team is a few key injuries away from their seasons being rite offs, we seem less so than most others.

Plus i always had this as a transition year, Ross will cull afew at years end and no doubt have his eye on a few complimentary pieces he wants to add.

Were building something sustainable opposed to previous years where its felt like we bob up every so often to be good for a year.

 

[Joffaboy]

I don't see physical fitness of the team as an issue or fatigue of a 5 day turnaround.

As W2L pointed out in a few posts above they got us a few times forward of centre with unmarked midfielders.
I see this as more mental fatigue as the zone broke down on a number of occasions. I distinctly seeing Seb throw his head back after one of these lapses as if to say, 'I should have been covering that'.

We were a little bit off, and Ports pressure was through the roof all night forcing our kicks to be hurried and plenty of turnover.
Carltons heat map of last week had some glaring holes see the highlighted below. Would like to see Ports heat map for comparison, I would say there would be a lot more possessions in that square.

 

[saintmike65]

Our defensive system was still pretty good.

Our offensive system went by the wayside.

Overall our biggest sin, was that our disposal skills by hand and foot were very poor. I watched some the Cats game today, their players were just so clean with the ball. Whereas we just wasted it.

And yes our guys were mentally a bit off. Battle and wilkie both had some brain Fades. And whether that free kick was there or not against Battle, Battle was simply too close to to the man of the mark in the first place. If he had not bee so close then, he would still have had time to kick the ball properly.


How much was the 5 days break, an how much was the players perhaps just kecking a bit cocky and mentally relaxing who knows. But the team as a whole were off their game a bit. Even Mr Smooth Sinclair made some bad decisions early on.


Port like the Pies, applied a lot of pressure. I hope our coaches and players learnt from it.


Structurally though we lacked:

• True Key Marking Forwards (Caminiti back after North, and King hopefully with a month)
• A true gun mid (Doubtful this gets fixed this year )
• Good tapwork (Marshall is a very good follower, but teams that have an exceptional starting mid, or mids, hurt us).

If King and Caminiti are both in we can play Mitch as the big bull mid we need!

 

[saintmike65]

Yeah i would bring Max back this week if he's 90% good to go.

Agree…you don’t have a thoroughbred running around in the twos..he’s done a power of work in recent weeks

 

[Ads734]

Port aren't a top 4 team and I don't see then finishing that high.

I think it's a game we should have won, but at the same time it's far from the end of the world. A few really bad mistakes cost us.

We've just gotta make sure we beat a few sides around us I the back end of the year. 7 games game against bottom 4 sides means it's going to be pretty disastrous to miss the 8. If we can beat all those side convincingly and beat a couple of sides around us we are a chance for top 4. If we can't bbeat of few of these sides on Ports level we probably just sneak into the 8.

I said before the game that Port gamesalways act as a barometer for us. Like in 2020 when we won I knew it was a strong sign. Here I’m taking a glass half full approach. Mainly because we didn’t have Paddy. Anyways if we learn I’ll be happy.

 

[bergholt]

Mainly because we didn’t have Paddy.

Paddy Dangerfield? Paddy Cripps? Paddy and Selma?

 

[Remboy]

If King and Caminiti are both in we can play Mitch as the big bull mid we need!

The sooner Owens and Windhager are a regular part of our midfield the better. They are the point of difference we're crying out for.

 

[my name was taken]

I don't see physical fitness of the team as an issue or fatigue of a 5 day turnaround.

As W2L pointed out in a few posts above they got us a few times forward of centre with unmarked midfielders.
I see this as more mental fatigue as the zone broke down on a number of occasions. I distinctly seeing Seb throw his head back after one of these lapses as if to say, 'I should have been covering that'.

We were a little bit off, and Ports pressure was through the roof all night forcing our kicks to be hurried and plenty of turnover.
Carltons heat map of last week had some glaring holes see the highlighted below. Would like to see Ports heat map for comparison, I would say there would be a lot more possessions in that square.View attachment 1675393

If you drew a 45 degree angle from the goalline, port forward posession was almost exclusively in that area.

Ports best entries started just forward of there back flank and angled 1 kick into the middle of the ground and that player just hoofed it immediately. 1 of those things that Lyon will probably identify and try to tweak to pressure that kick into the centre more, although port were very precise, a couple times hit a player smack bang in the middle of 3 of ours.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I don't see physical fitness of the team as an issue or fatigue of a 5 day turnaround.

As W2L pointed out in a few posts above they got us a few times forward of centre with unmarked midfielders.
I see this as more mental fatigue as the zone broke down on a number of occasions. I distinctly seeing Seb throw his head back after one of these lapses as if to say, 'I should have been covering that'.

We were a little bit off, and Ports pressure was through the roof all night forcing our kicks to be hurried and plenty of turnover.
Carltons heat map of last week had some glaring holes see the highlighted below. Would like to see Ports heat map for comparison, I would say there would be a lot more possessions in that square.View attachment 1675393

I was convinced it would have been a factor, but was persuaded otherwise by many posters on here wiser than me ( genuine, not being sarcastic) that it shouldn't have been a problem.
However, it was interesting to note that Ross actually mentioned it twice in his presser.

 

[gringo2011]

The sooner Owens and Windhager are a regular part of our midfield the better. They are the point of difference we're crying out for.

Probably need to start with one at a time. Owens looks like he's ready to have at least some time inside already.

 

[gringo2011]

I was convinced it would have been a factor, but was persuaded otherwise by many posters on here wiser than me ( genuine, not being sarcastic) that it shouldn't have been a problem.
However, it was interesting to note that Ross actually mentioned it twice in his presser.

I got the feeling he was trying to not put the panic on them and keep it kind of light. Keep them positive and upbeat.

 

[AirWinmar]

One of the main things that stood out for me was how we left Port players wide open in the corridor a number of times.

They were just lapses of concentration by individuals but it was the first time we'd seen that this season.

Yes, it looked like a couple of players at times got caught napping and it opened the zone up. Also, the way our zone has setup has been that perfect teasing distance where if you are good enough you might be able to kick thru it. it looked to me we were a bit off the pace and flat footed, so we didnt turn over some of Ports kicking thru the zone that we may have in other games. Turning over a couple puts the doubt in minds and teams have got slowed up with going wide, etc which didnt happen against Port

 

[gringo2011]

Yes, it looked like a couple of players at times got caught napping and it opened the zone up. Also, the way our zone has setup has been that perfect teasing distance where if you are good enough you might be able to kick thru it. it looked to me we were a bit off the pace and flat footed, so we didnt turn over some of Ports kicking thru the zone that we may have in other games. Turning over a couple puts the doubt in minds and teams have got slowed up with going wide, etc which didnt happen against Port

Also when you watch the highlights they got out the back of our defensive zone and scored from it while they did the same press and we couldn't cut through it. Their inside 50 kicks were very clean and they converted from hard angles or freak shots. We let teams take shots but they are low percentage. After quarter time they hit theirs at an above average rate. Powell-Pepper tight on the boundary, bobbling balls falling to Willie Rioli, Finlayson scoring a snap goal off a spill from Dixon.

 

[AirWinmar]

I don't see physical fitness of the team as an issue or fatigue of a 5 day turnaround.

As W2L pointed out in a few posts above they got us a few times forward of centre with unmarked midfielders.
I see this as more mental fatigue as the zone broke down on a number of occasions. I distinctly seeing Seb throw his head back after one of these lapses as if to say, 'I should have been covering that'.

We were a little bit off, and Ports pressure was through the roof all night forcing our kicks to be hurried and plenty of turnover.
Carltons heat map of last week had some glaring holes see the highlighted below. Would like to see Ports heat map for comparison, I would say there would be a lot more possessions in that square.View attachment 1675393

Their pressure was. Over 80 tackles is massive. I think in the 80's they'd say if you got over 40 tackles you'd win. I don't think they'd be many losing sides who got over 80 tackles. Be interesting to see what that looks like

 

[Ads734]

Paddy Dangerfield? Paddy Cripps? Paddy and Selma?

Ryder

 

[Joffaboy]

I was convinced it would have been a factor, but was persuaded otherwise by many posters on here wiser than me ( genuine, not being sarcastic) that it shouldn't have been a problem.
However, it was interesting to note that Ross actually mentioned it twice in his presser.

I base it on our running stats where I read somewhere that they were higher and more intense than against Carlton.

 

[The Punter]

I thought the clearest demonstration of the tiredness was the lack of cleanliness either getting the ball or disposing of it.

 

[Joffaboy]

I thought the clearest demonstration of the tiredness was the lack of cleanliness either getting the ball or disposing of it.

I put that down to Ports actual extremely high pressure and consequently their referred pressure.

 

[BrutThough]

Coaches Votes

10 Jason Horne-Francis (PORT)
6 Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

28

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

(STK)
6 Travis Boak

10

Travis Boak

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.7

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

12.0

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.4

4star

(PORT)
4 Zak Butters

9

Zak Butters

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

14.7

4star

K

8.9

4star

HB

5.9

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

(PORT)
2 Sam Powell-Pepper

2

Sam Powell-pepper

Age

26

Ht

187cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.6

4star

K

8.6

3star

HB

9.0

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

5.1

5star

G

0.5

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.3

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

17.0

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.8

4star

(PORT)
1 Jack Sinclair

35

Jack Sinclair

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

235.0

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

MG

376.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

MG

138.2

3star

(STK)
1 Mitch Owens (STK)

 

[Nutsngum]

I base it on our running stats where I read somewhere that they were higher and more intense than against Carlton.

I dont know about more intense necceassarily. The overall team tracker is marginally higher but the individual amounts are lower (although the app only lets you see the top 5, which are mostly Port players). The top 5 defensive workrate was all Port as well.

The issue is that whilst you can push yourself through hard gut running, if you are genuinely at your limit you absoluely suffer mentally which is where poor disposal creeps into your game.

I look at it as not "can we finish the race" but more "can we finish the race whilst mantaining composure". The latter is where we lost it.

 

[bergholt]

Coaches Votes

10 Jason Horne-Francis (PORT)
6 Rowan Marshall (STK)
6 Travis Boak (PORT)
4 Zak Butters (PORT)
2 Sam Powell-Pepper (PORT)
1 Jack Sinclair (STK)
1 Mitch Owens (STK)

Saints totals now

25+: Sinclair (29 from 5 games voted in)
20+: Wilkie (25 from 4)
15+: Wood (16 from 3), Marshall (15 from 4)
10+: Owens (11 from 3), Higgins (10 from 2)
5+: Steele (6 from 1)
1+: Crouch (4 from 2), Hill (4 from 2), Battle (2 from 1), Phillipou (2 from 1), Ross (2 from 2), Butler (1 from 1), Byrnes (1 from 1)

 

[stfan]

If King and Caminiti are both in we can play Mitch as the big bull mid we need!

Hopefully. Though Owens is yet to show that he has that type of inside mid ball winning ability.

The other aspects of Owens game are all elite at present. So yes it would be great if he could be, but that is rare skillset. So he may not be good enough in that particular role. One can dream of course.

 

[sammm]

The amount of changes needed to impact how fatigued the team was would have been ridiculous. Who are you going to pull out of the midfield group in order to have 100% fitness in there? What about the forward line where we have no depth at the moment at all?

i agree and thanks fro repying. What about someone replacing Cordy?