Relocation within Melbourne?

[Teen Wolf]

Where is this from?

I get that it's just a visual guide, but Richmond Station is going over the road, but under the ground? That grade is a bit more than 2%. And there's no way those left two soccer pitches are going to survive an MCG game day crowd, let alone year after year of them.

This can't be from anything official.

Looks like Richmond station remains above the ground to me, and the tracks are covered but not necessarily sunk.

 

[Fire]

Looks like Richmond station remains above the ground to me, and the tracks are covered but not necessarily sunk.

You didn't answer where it came from.

And unless those soccer pitches are on a sharp incline, thats not physically possible. The rail is above the road, so anything built above that would be 4-5 stories above ground.

It's a Seinfeld hallway problem.

 

[Teen Wolf]

You didn't answer where it came from.

And unless those soccer pitches are on a sharp incline, thats not physically possible. The rail is above the road, so anything built above that would be 4-5 stories above ground.

It's a Seinfeld hallway problem.

I'm not sure what you don't get about building a flat roof over train tracks.

The soccer fields in that map would be at the same height as the current overpasses, which are nowhere near as high as 4-5 stories above ground.

 

[Fire]

I'm not sure what you don't get about building a flat roof over train tracks.

The soccer fields in that map would be at the same height as the current overpasses, which are nowhere near as high as 4-5 stories above ground.

4-5 stories at punt road, tapering down. Like I said, its all on an angle. The only way this works is if the station gets buried.

You oddly refuse to say where this came from.

 

[Teen Wolf]

4-5 stories at punt road,

No that's just simply wrong. The tracks are one storey off the ground at the highest point (pretty obvious when you think about it--elevated for motor vehicles to pass under, not ships). The covering would just be an additional storey above that.

 

[Fire]

No that's just simply wrong. The tracks are one storey off the ground at the highest point (pretty obvious when you think about it--elevated for motor vehicles to pass under, not ships). The covering would just be an additional storey above that.

Incorrect.

Where did the map come from? Did you make it yourself?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Incorrect.

Where did the map come from? Did you make it yourself?

Behold, two storey buildings, stretching into the air as high as the platform shelters at Richmond station:


If we can't agree about that, further interaction is a waste of time.

 

[Fire]

Behold, two storey buildings, stretching into the air as high as the platform shelters at Richmond station:
View attachment 2123309

If we can't agree about that, further interaction is a waste of time.

The train needs clearance and electrical wires above it, so the cieling would likley need to be a bit higher than the top of the shelters there, which look to be about 3 stories high. Then the thickness of the structure you need to build on that to support the weight of a field, and another foot or two for a drainage system. It's at least 3.5 stories.

I'm not sure why you're arguing because even if you were right, the problems I'm pointing out are still present.

All you need to do is bury the station, and get rid of the two left most soccer fields, and you have something viable instead of ridiculous. It should be pretty trivial to have the tracks to the east move down instead of up as they approach the station, so it wouldn't even be a big reconfiguration.

 

[Teen Wolf]

The train needs clearance and electrical wires above it, so the cieling would likley need to be a bit higher than the top of the shelters there, which look to be about 3 stories high. Then the thickness of the structure you need to build on that to support the weight of a field, and another foot or two for a drainage system. It's at least 3.5 stories.

I'm not sure why you're arguing because even if you were right, the problems I'm pointing out are still present.

All you need to do is bury the station, and get rid of the two left most soccer fields, and you have something viable instead of ridiculous. It should be pretty trivial to have the tracks to the east move down instead of up as they approach the station, so it wouldn't even be a big reconfiguration.

I just don't think you're properly processing where the tracks drop back down to ground level and how they relate to the position of the soccer fields in that map.

It would be much easier, and cheaper by hundreds of millions of dollars, to build that rather than sinking rail lines.

 

[JPetro83]

Not Melbourne but the larger expanding big country towns of Victoria. it Should have been done years ago. Ballarat, Bendigo, North East (Shepparton, Wodonga, Wangaratta)
I think the VFL wanted to add teams from Bendigo and Ballarat in the 50s? or those two towns applied?
I think when Tassie are in, North need to stop playing home games in Tasmania and have a rebrand just as the Dogs did in 97 and represent Northern Victoria.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Not Melbourne but the larger expanding big country towns of Victoria. it Should have been done years ago. Ballarat, Bendigo, North East (Shepparton, Wodonga, Wangaratta)
I think the VFL wanted to add teams from Bendigo and Ballarat in the 50s? or those two towns applied?
I think when Tassie are in, North need to stop playing home games in Tasmania and have a rebrand just as the Dogs did in 97 and represent Northern Victoria.

Rather would want relocations in another state / territory with the smaller Vic clubs but thought that if North Melbourne stayed in Victoria full-time, they should be known as the "Northern Kangaroos" and have a secondary home ground in country Victoria such as Bendigo, Shepparton or Albury-Wondonga with a home game spilt of 7 / 4.

Can do the same with St. Kilda in a sense though in that you could rename them as the "Southern Saints" like the VFLW women's side currently is and possibly get the AFL and state government to fund money and resources into a new boutique stadium to represent the suburbs and towns in SE Melbourne with a home game split of 7 / 4 as well.

Depends on what the AFL want in the end though but always believed 9 clubs located in the Melbourne CBD surroundings is just too many teams in a national competition rdprvisllu given the unfair advantages it brings with travel between them and the interstate clubs outside of Victoria.

 

[iameviljez]

Not Melbourne but the larger expanding big country towns of Victoria. it Should have been done years ago. Ballarat, Bendigo, North East (Shepparton, Wodonga, Wangaratta)
I think the VFL wanted to add teams from Bendigo and Ballarat in the 50s? or those two towns applied?
I think when Tassie are in, North need to stop playing home games in Tasmania and have a rebrand just as the Dogs did in 97 and represent Northern Victoria.

The problem is that Ballarat and Bendigo have 100,000 people each - not really enough to underwrite an AFL team in a place where most people already have a strong AFL affiliation to a given side. Although Geelong has 180,000 people, it leans heavily on its Melbourne and rural Vic supporter base, backed by 20 years of success, to fill out its stadium.

Victoria isn't like NSW or Qld, where huge numbers of people live outside the major city.

I don't really like the GWS-style approach of not picking a home city, and just going for "Northern". It kind of looks like it belongs to nobody.

 

[iameviljez]

Do you think that these migrants have a significant interest in footy? And how does a training base location make a significant difference to a club’s supporter base? Most supporters will never go to the training base.

Engaging with migrant communities does have long-term payoff. Carlton and Italian supporters is the poster child for this.

 

[JPetro83]

The problem is that Ballarat and Bendigo have 100,000 people each - not really enough to underwrite an AFL team in a place where most people already have a strong AFL affiliation to a given side. Although Geelong has 180,000 people, it leans heavily on its Melbourne and rural Vic supporter base, backed by 20 years of success, to fill out its stadium.

Victoria isn't like NSW or Qld, where huge numbers of people live outside the major city.

I don't really like the GWS-style approach of not picking a home city, and just going for "Northern". It kind of looks like it belongs to nobody.

If the AFL could have their time again i think there would have been more mergers/relocations in the 80s/90s. Probably too late now. i still cant believe the likes of the Dogs, Saints and Roos survived without a merger or a relocation. They are slowly cooking the golden goose. 16 teams were perfect. 18 was ok.. but now we are looking at 20 by the 2030s? way too many

 

[Walshawk]

Engaging with migrant communities does have long-term payoff. Carlton and Italian supporters is the poster child for this.

What happened with many Italians moving to Carlton after WW2 has little relevance today. Most immigration now is from China and India. Of recent immigrants, only the Africans have shown any interest in AFL.

Of course it is good for clubs and the AFL to engage with migrant communities, but it is not going to make any significant difference to a particular club.

 

[JPetro83]

Rather would want relocations in another state / territory with the smaller Vic clubs but thought that if North Melbourne stayed in Victoria full-time, they should be known as the "Northern Kangaroos" and have a secondary home ground in country Victoria such as Bendigo, Shepparton or Albury-Wondonga with a home game spilt of 7 / 4.

Can do the same with St. Kilda in a sense though in that you could rename them as the "Southern Saints" like the VFLW women's side currently is and possibly get the AFL and state government to fund money and resources into a new boutique stadium to represent the suburbs and towns in SE Melbourne with a home game split of 7 / 4 as well.

Depends on what the AFL want in the end though but always believed 9 clubs located in the Melbourne CBD surroundings is just too many teams in a national competition rdprvisllu given the unfair advantages it brings with travel between them and the interstate clubs outside of Victoria.

Yeah, St Kilda could do with a rebrand. It worked for the Dogs. after 130 years as St Kilda they could do with a change after their horrendous history. Southern Saints would work well.

 

[iameviljez]

If the AFL could have their time again i think there would have been more mergers/relocations in the 80s/90s. Probably too late now. i still cant believe the likes of the Dogs, Saints and Roos survived without a merger or a relocation. They are slowly cooking the golden goose. 16 teams were perfect. 18 was ok.. but now we are looking at 20 by the 2030s? way too many

Not really - there's nothing wrong with having 20 teams if you have the viewers to sustain it. Given the rude fiscal health of the AFL...

 

[iameviljez]

What happened with many Italians moving to Carlton after WW2 has little relevance today. Most immigration now is from China and India. Of recent immigrants, only the Africans have shown any interest in AFL.

Of course it is good for clubs and the AFL to engage with migrant communities, but it is not going to make any significant difference to a particular club.

It has some relevance still - in that it's not the first wave of immigrants who really assimilate into a sport, it's the second and third. It does pay long term dividends.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Not really - there's nothing wrong with having 20 teams if you have the viewers to sustain it. Given the rude fiscal health of the AFL...

Every one of the "poor" clubs has 50,000 members, fans that attend away games, bumping attendances, and have the greatest fan to membership/revenue conversion rate compared to the apathetic support of a tacked-on big club supporter. That was a ridiculous post, agreed.

 

[Professor Knowall]

The problem is that Ballarat and Bendigo have 100,000 people each - not really enough to underwrite an AFL team in a place where most people already have a strong AFL affiliation to a given side. Although Geelong has 180,000 people, it leans heavily on its Melbourne and rural Vic supporter base, backed by 20 years of success, to fill out its stadium.

Actually, Geelong now has over 280,000, not 180,000 and is till growing very rapidly -

https://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/ct/article/item/8dc54c1a6141b5f.aspx

Ballarat and Bendigo each have a bit over 120,000 - not enough to have an AFL team based in for the reason you gave above.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

What happened with many Italians moving to Carlton after WW2 has little relevance today. Most immigration now is from China and India. Of recent immigrants, only the Africans have shown any interest in AFL.

Of course it is good for clubs and the AFL to engage with migrant communities, but it is not going to make any significant difference to a particular club.

African Australians are a pretty large community now, appealing to them could pay off quite a bit in future memberships. And I'd argue it'd make a big difference to the Giants if they got some of the bigger ethnic communities in Western Sydney into the sport, like Arabs for example.

Some Indians have certainly got into the game, but I wonder if one of the reasons why they haven't got into it more as a community is clubs not doing enough to target them specifically.

 

[Bjo187]

African Australians are a pretty large community now, appealing to them could pay off quite a bit in future memberships. And I'd argue it'd make a big difference to the Giants if they got some of the bigger ethnic communities in Western Sydney into the sport, like Arabs for example.

Some Indians have certainly got into the game, but I wonder if one of the reasons why they haven't got into it more as a community is clubs not doing enough to target them specifically.

The african community are good for participation, but the actual number is still quite low. Also they're not yet a middle class community which could afford expensive memberships, as the majority are first generation Australians.

Indians are the perfect community to try to get on board, large numbers, a sporting interest via cricket and most came here as skilled migrants, so a more disposable income. The AFL should seek grants from the Victorian government to bring AFL to the Indian community as a way of 'teaching and assimilating the Australian culture to migrant communities. That's the reason I'd be using if I were the afl, to get the government to fund it. It would add an extra $5 or 10 million to the grassroots money pool and would be a great shot in the arm for the afl growth here.