Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Toump Ass]

One can only assume that there are a greater number of 'racist whites' skewing that result, as the Yes Campaign repeatedly told us that 80% of the indigenous population were voting Yes.

Same must go for Maranoa with 84% No.

I assume indigenous people just didn’t bother voting personally.

 

[campbell]

As decided by you a rabid lefty. So you see the problem? Of course not but here it is 'chief' you are not impartial. You are totally compromised by your bias.

That is why this is an echo chamber of the left.

Chief, how are those rabies shots going.lol

 

[peetoo]

Its hilarious reading the left blame everyone but themselves.

The fact is the constitution of Australia is the highest legal document in the land. Unlike the US constitution it has no flowery statements, it is purely a fact back document based on the application of the law and the process when it comes to the Government of the nation.

Everyone I know had the same question re the voice, what is the wording of the change, how will it work, what is the process, how will the elect 'representatives; etc etc. It was asked many times and the people who asked were labelled racists. All Albo did was appeal to the 'heart' when it was all about facts. He showed he is not over the detail, he is lazy and he is not smart.

What the left also overlooked is most Australians do not trust politicians, so being told to trust us we will show you the details later on was never going to cut it, it was so easy to attack you'd almost think Albo set it up to fail (he is not that smart) like Howard did re the republic.

So the voice got destroyed at the ballot box, Albo is now a loser and the rational Australians are now seeing the left play the usual blame game for their terrible campaign and refusal to listen and engage. And the star was Jacinta Price, a free, independent thinker who took Burney apart. Now the left play the 'the libs will dump' her. All my conservative mates, middle aged white guys, are super impressed and see her as a future leader of the coalition. As usual you clowns play the man, not the ball.

So suck it up, the people have spoken, in fact they have yelled it at you and still you refuse to listen. This is not going to end well for the left, electoral wipe outs are coming on all levels. And in the interim Bill Shorten will be circling Albo, their is blood in the water now.

The constitition already favours a hereditary minority. Charles windsor and his brood.

Beggars belief the lobby who voted no in this referendum voted 20 years ago to retain that.

Let’s respect the right to vote how everyone sees fit, but don’t call ‘us’ unpatriotic for wanting to dump Charles. By any logical reasoning it’s the monarchists who are unpatriotic

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The reality is that no one really knows what the Voice could have recommended. The Voice members whom would have been elected by their own race may have been blak sovereignty types who may have recommended reparations, taxes on the non Indigenous etc.

Which would have led nowhere because they held no legislative powers.

 

[LewisHall]

I assume indigenous people just didn’t bother voting personally.

Like many of them giving up on bothering with social security / Centrelink

 

[campbell]

The seat of Durack in Northern WA where Aboriginal youth suicide has been so prevalent and such a talking point. A key symbol of Aboriginal disparity.

Result: 73% no.

How does that happen?

How many registered Indigenous voters are there?

 

[Gough]

As I feared, not happy with preventing further Reconciliation with this vote these people now want to wind back what already exists

 

[MrSwannee84]

australia has been racist since the first rifle was fired and the first waterhole poisoned. What happened yesterday means that people can no longer simply claim no responsibility for past atrocities.. We've got a brand-spanking new one here. Congratulations.

You're simply missing the point. The Yes supporters (the rabid far left in general) made (and still are) making the same mistakes that Hillary Clinton made in the 2016 US presidential election. If you want to sway people your way then denigrating them as vile racists is a sure fire way to destroy your whole cause in one foul swoop.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

 

[Chief]

Lastly, I can't imagine how Dutton can win back teal seats now, and it probably cleavers off that small rump of moderate Liberals remaining. It seems he's looking for a realignment akin to Trump's Republicans or Brexit Tories, but I'm not sure I can see that working for him. I could see this being a very hollow victory for conservative Australia, though for now I'm sure they'll take the victory nonetheless.

I think with this grubby campaign he developed a "White Wall" between the city and remote communities.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

That's not the point, the point is when you and people like you abuse the other side, you only hurt your own argument.

So next time there's an issue like this, try not abuse or label people who disagree with you.

Or they could take responsibility for their own choices instead of voting for racist dickheads because someone called them a racist dickhead.

 

[Toump Ass]

Because many indigenous people don't feel a connection with the 'Australia' that was imposed on them. Recognition through the Constitution was, rightly or wrongly, seen as a way of bringing them in as an integral part of the political and cultural 'whole' of this nation.

It's symbolic of course, but that was the idea. When you think of colonial settlement as an imposition though, obviously ANY Constitutional recognition may seem like surrender. I think this was how people like Lydia Thorpe saw it.

If anything I feel that this absolutely cements the need for a Republic as far as First Nations people are concerned. If Indigenous people can feel a part of a brand new Nation that 'rejects' then 'invades' and finally 'destroys' the old colonial relic the Commonwealth of Australia then so much the better.

They'll be a part of something built from the ground up, rather than have it imposed on them from the top down.

Couldn’t agree more.

I was more thinking aloud why someone would criticise the wording of the amendment in a largely smymbolic gesture.

 

[Gibbke]

In reality would be the only group of people with a fairly comprehensive knowledge of the constitution would be constitutional lawyers and academics.

You don't need that. All you need to know is that the constitution is the document which determines what can and can't be law in this country, and that to change it you need a referendum. If you want further detail, it's the easiest thing to find, and if you have the ability to read you should be fine...if it gets a bit hard, there are plenty of academics who publish details telling you what it means without a tabloid angle.

I tell the kids exactly what's above in my Y9 history class! Adult Australia has no excuses. We spend the rest of the time trying to teach the youngsters to bone up on their reading and comprehension, and try to ward off the forces of dumbarsedness that infiltrate their existence like cosmic radiation bouncing off a planet, but then we have to let them go and hope for the best. The real apprehension for me is that despite our best efforts, results like yesterday's can occur and might happen again, and those of us with a vested interest in setting our kids up for a better future despair...teachers around the nation are facepalming today that their former kids are the ones who did this...

 

[peetoo]

Says it all about how much of a sham it was when safe Labor seats in Adelaide's north were strongly in the No camp.

Shoots down the far left cries of racism when that part of Adelaide is very multicultural.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Big reveal everyone. The working classes are socially conservative. The labor movement is about not being exploited too much by capital. Young adults wh are seeing the aspiration of owning a home are waking up to this.

Thatcher bribed them by selling them their state hous and making a profit. The cons have run out of bribes so are doing culture wars

Labor or labour should avoid engaging in these wars too much, and be more like our mostly centrist state govts, of either colour.

 

[Chief]

My conclusion - as sad as it looks - is that those areas where there was a larger % indigenous representation, the non indigenous majority population rejected the Voice in greater numbers.

The good thing is this isn't the end - nothing to stop us listening more and supporting the grassroots activists. Hopefully this is the start of change. Not sure the dead space in the middle can be enlivened but I am no organiser.

 

[mcgarnacle]

This forum and this “day after the defeat” is a perfect example of why as previously posted I was a reluctant yes voter but against this referendum.

And so it starts …

I’m ashamed to be Australian
The country is racist
Dutton and sky news are evil
Country people are backward
What do I tell my children ect ect

This was an all states rout.
Which means 100,000s university educated folk like most on here, voted it down. Whatever u think most care
for First Nations people.

It lost because it was asking for Australians to add yet another level
Of government bureaucracy to help
our Indigenous peoples with no evidence of how this would improve their lot.
Instead we got “it’s the right thing to do”…. “Most No voters are racist”…

You just have to look at the bloat of government indigenous agencies in the last 20 years for virtually no improvement in remote communities
To understand the reluctance of
Many Australian voters.
This was a woeful campaign from the government…. That needs to be owned and not scape goated

I understand that most Folks on here feel gutted angry and genuinely care for the plight of our indigenous population.
Going forward before branding the country racist and declaring people that don’t think like you don’t care for First Nations people.
Perhaps think of the damage and division to our indigenous population and to Australians in general that this point of view adds to.
Or of course you can do the easy thing, stay with the group think, keep getting those from the tribe , continue Australia is racist and keep adding to the division.

There wasn't much evidence from the No campaign, apart from "we don't know." And they manipulated many people's fear of the unknown.

 

[sherb]

You're simply missing the point. The Yes supporters (the rabid far left in general) made (and still are) making the same mistakes that Hillary Clinton made in the 2016 US presidential election. If you want to sway people your way then denigrating them as vile racists is a sure fire way to destroy your whole cause in one foul swoop.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

So because they are denigrated as vile racists they then decide to vote accordingly?

Doesn't make sense.

If they were up in arms about that label, they'd be determined to prove it wrong, not reinforce it.

 

[Tyrohad]

In my town in Far North Qld, many indigenous people were strongly against this referendum. In fact in the weeks leading up to it, there were tents for both sides, not one indigenous people in the 'yes' tent. The opposite was true. I'm guessing most of the yes people are southerners who've moved up. It's a small community, did not recognise any of them at all.

We even had ********s drive door to door trying to convince people to vote 'yes'.

Most people won't report it but the 'yes' vote received hostile treatment in these parts of the country. And the common reason was that it would create an even further divide.

Everyone is equal and face the same struggles and opportunities these days, regardless of heritage. It's absolutely ridiculous to try to differentiate voices in parliament based on people groups and not where you live.

Good riddance to this referendum.

 

[LewisHall]

So because they are denigrated as vile racists they then decide to vote accordingly?

Doesn't make sense.

If they were up in arms about that label, they'd be determined to prove it wrong, not reinforce it.

We have to be open to the possibility boomers are vile racists.

Listening to them speak the last few months has been illuminating. In person and in a wider sense.

Personally I don't blame them as it's perhaps generational

 

[Ghost Patrol]

There wasn't much evidence from the No campaign, apart from "we don't know." And they manipulated many people's fear of the unknown.

Then after they win the vote, they continue to throw their toys out of the oversized dual cab pram.

 

[peetoo]

As I feared, not happy with preventing further Reconciliation with this vote these people now want to wind back what already exists

The question was not about the SA voice. Also it’s not in the SA constitution, so can be imposed or removed by parliament at will.

That was the point

 

[Reg Grundy35]

You're simply missing the point. The Yes supporters (the rabid far left in general) made (and still are) making the same mistakes that Hillary Clinton made in the 2016 US presidential election. If you want to sway people your way then denigrating them as vile racists is a sure fire way to destroy your whole cause in one foul swoop.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

I haven't missed any point. A huge problem in australia is that apparently its a worse sin to call someone a racist thanit is to actually be one. Exactly what you are doing.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Says it all about how much of a sham it was when safe Labor seats in Adelaide's north were strongly in the No camp.

Shoots down the far left cries of racism when that part of Adelaide is very multicultural.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

I doubt that Labor voters, many I assume with a multicultural background, were swayed to vote Labor in the last federal election because of their promise to take recognition and a first nation's people voice to parliament in the constitution to a referendum!

 

[Chief]

You can make a similar case that Australians don't like politicians, celebrities and big businesses all telling them which way to side on an issue without much more discussion about the issue.

There was a lot of discussion. Dominated by LNP shit talking points.

Not much more of a sure thing to turn Aussies off something than to plaster a politician over it.

I disagree.

The No campaign had wall to wall politicians and "celebrities" like Sam Newman.

You don't recall the scenes of Michaelia Cash barking at a room full of chanting racist boomers?

 

[Gibbke]

The constitition already favours a hereditary minority. Charles windsor and his brood.

Beggars belief the lobby who voted no in this referendum voted 20 years ago to retain that.

Let’s respect the right to vote how everyone sees fit, but don’t call ‘us’ unpatriotic for wanting to dump Charles. By any logical reasoning it’s the monarchists who are unpatriotic

I've often used the argument that I love my country more than those who argue for a monarchy, the No vote or keeping Jan 26 as the national day, because unlike them, those people who say the status quo works for them and that anyone who differs should fit in or **** off, I'm prepared to perform an intervention!

You do that when you love your family and want the best for them and everyone else...

 

[Cmarsh]

Which would have led nowhere because they held no legislative powers.

Yeah exactly. What was the point of the Voice? To listen to Aboriginal people wasn't it?