Absolutely agree Re: footy brain as well as skills ATM HBF. In time it will come down to how many goals he contributes/ assists Vrs how many he leaks if the opposition creates scoring options from running of him.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Player Reviews NAB Cup Rd 1
- Thread starter Snoop Dog
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Was going to do one of my own but Snoop has pretty much hit the mark on all counts.
All I'll say is that I wasn't as impressed with Witts as you Snoop. I thought he was totally beaten in the ruck. It is positive to see his second efforts, and he still has an impact when the ball hits the ground which is good.
But he is still not using his size to effect at all. He took a few marks...but when he was sitting forward he didn't have a clue.
I'm not worried because his agility and intensity for a big man is great. He will become dominant once he learns to use his height and size. Just thought he was taught a bit of lesson by Bellchambers and Ryder who just seemed to run him under the ball then jump over him. He also looked a bit exposed when he had to defend against Bellchambers.
Plenty to work with and he should play all the games to get his experience up.
Agree also with your assessment on Young. His kicking over shorter distances can be hit and miss and this was always the case during his Hawthorn days. But ultimately he fit in really well, and could've been used on a number of other occassions but his team-mates just didn't see him.
Great call on Marley. He has all the tricks, but just can't kick. He needs to sharpen that up before he re-establishes his spot in the 22. Love his efforts though.
All I'll say is that I wasn't as impressed with Witts as you Snoop. I thought he was totally beaten in the ruck. It is positive to see his second efforts, and he still has an impact when the ball hits the ground which is good.
But he is still not using his size to effect at all. He took a few marks...but when he was sitting forward he didn't have a clue.
I'm not worried because his agility and intensity for a big man is great. He will become dominant once he learns to use his height and size. Just thought he was taught a bit of lesson by Bellchambers and Ryder who just seemed to run him under the ball then jump over him. He also looked a bit exposed when he had to defend against Bellchambers.
Plenty to work with and he should play all the games to get his experience up.
Agree also with your assessment on Young. His kicking over shorter distances can be hit and miss and this was always the case during his Hawthorn days. But ultimately he fit in really well, and could've been used on a number of other occassions but his team-mates just didn't see him.
Great call on Marley. He has all the tricks, but just can't kick. He needs to sharpen that up before he re-establishes his spot in the 22. Love his efforts though.
I double take every time...
the mighty T
Premiership Player
THIS! I sit there watching the game, he'll take a mark and we all know hes going to play on.. Its not even a surprise anymore and i dont really think he has the evasiveness to get away with it more than 50% of the time and he doesnt have the composure he used to. I think his biggest problem is having to worry about both the offensive and defensive side of his game just really puts him off. Hes an important part of our team when hes up and about but geez when the ball comes his way in the defensive 50, i sort of look away
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I disagree, yes everyone knows he is going to play on but he still seems to get a good 20 metres on every run and he's always been a bomber, that's nothing new. But getting the ball 70 metres towards our goal is nothing to sneeze at.
But defensive work is getting worse and is the more pressing issue, i'm pretty sure teams will start to exploit it soon, any time he is running back towards goal he is a liability.
the mighty T
Premiership Player
Hmm, id think the amount of times he runs into trouble compared to a successful run/kick option might be at about 50%. Its especially bad if he gets onto his wrong side, just makes his decision making so bad. Hes great when he has space and time though.
i agree with your point on him defensively though. Maybe he should be trialled on a wing?
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forwardflanker
Cancelled
He was pretty bad, especially compared to 2010-11 form. If he plays that way this season he won't be best 22 imo. He isn't damaging enough on the rebound to justify how poor he was defensively last season. If he replicates it then I'd prefer Russell or Johnson playing in the 22 before him
- Oct 5, 2012
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I don't like Harry much as a footballer. Very overrated and I just think he is a very poor footballer and very limited. He is very average when it comes to taking overhead marks, craps himself 90% of the time when he is going for a mark and whenever he gets the ball he just runs and bombs it long. His kicking is very average as well and with our new game plan which will require going down the corridor more he will get exposed even more.
I am really dreading the moment Harry plays on Eddie Betts again.
After bagging him so much in this post I really hope he proves me wrong and becomes a good player for the club.
I am really dreading the moment Harry plays on Eddie Betts again.
After bagging him so much in this post I really hope he proves me wrong and becomes a good player for the club.
Gone Critical
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Harry can't become a good player for the club, he has already been one for years.
It amuses me all the Harry hate of late. He had some down games in early 2012 and also some good ones (Port). He was good 2nd half of the season and great in the finals. Playing well in finals counts. Harry is consistently in the top 10 of the Copeland. So the coaches, who are better placed than anyone, rate his importance to the team. He has played a minimum or 23 games in a season since 2007.
You want Russell to replace him based on the 1st round of the NAB cup. Russell the player who was told he was surplus to requirements at Carlton and given away for nothing. The guy who could barely get more than an occasional game at Carlton when they were crippled by injury. The player who Carlton dropped form their 22 at least once a year for the great majority of his career. His record is so far inferior to Harry it's not funny. I hope he does well but shouldn't he have to perform well above Harry or the others for a number of weeks before we even think of dumping Harry et al
Don't you think Russells history should be taken into account a little while longer
Go_Brad_Dick
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I think H is a great player. He needs to be taught to have some more composure, no point breaking the lines and bolting off the back line every time he gets the ball if he doesn't link up or hit a target and that is too often the case. You can see he's trying to do the same thing Heath shaw does but he just gets too excited and tends to make a meal of it on occasion, if he can just fix that he'd be top10 in any side I'm the comp.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
I've been saying all preseason that O'Brien will find himself out of the side if he replicates 2012 form. Last year he was getting a game solely because we had nobody to fill his role. This year we have at least 2 others, perhaps as many as four. As I said above, whilst O'Brien had a good prelim he was poor for large portions of 2012 including some absolute shockers that should have resulted in an express ticket to the reserves. It's funny you mention the Port game as O'Briens best game of the year (bar the prelim) because I probably would have given Primus the votes that game for worst coaching performance I've seen in a long time by leaving Harry loose in the back half all game
I'm not an out and out O'Brien hater by any means but do think we have to think about team balance when setting up the back six. Last year the back 6 were a liability in their defensive play, especially from our worst 2-3 defenders of which O'Brien is one. I don't think that he is a good enough attacking player to justify his defensive weaknesses - Reid and Shaw are both in front as attackers and I also think Ben Johnson is more damaging of a back flank, so we can afford not having him in the side if it makes us stronger defensively. If Keefe recovers and gets back to best 22 then O'Brien is in real trouble imo because I think they'll prefer Reid in more of an attacking role and then have a smaller player who can do a job on the small forwards - Johnson, Russell and Williams are all clearly better at this than O'Brien and the first two can actually play on the rebound.
So whilst you might be right in saying that O'Brien is as good as or a touch better than players like Johnson and Russell he is not as valuable as they are to our team balance imo. Unfortunately for Harry, with a best 22 to pick from I think the only player he is really competing with Maxwell, and is anyone ever going to bet against the skipper.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
Difference between our back 6 and Hawthorns back 6 is that Reid and Shaw are about the only ones who I have any faith in with ball in hand and under a lot of pressure. Hawthorn have Burgoyne, Suckling, Birchall, Guerra, Gibson - all are better kciks than anyone in our back 6 bar Reid.
Probably our weakest link atm.
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
Again, no. His history means nothing. He should get games on merit like everyone else.
I think some people are been far too critical of Harry, whilst others are been far too lenient. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. In between a lot of bad posts have been some real quality ones though.
Truth is that out of our back 6, Harry is the one who could find himself under pressure if he doesn't start locking down on his opponent, and he learns when to break the lines or slow things up.
He has been a great player for the club, but I think his best footy came when he used to play very tight lock down roles. I think he has become far too offensively minded. The problem with this is that he is prone to attacking blindly and without a plan.
I find it concering to hear that he has been playing on a wing in intra-club games. I don't think he needs more attacking freedom.
If his role is pure offence, I think we'll see guys like Seedsman, Russell, Young and Marley Williams threaten his spot.
I don't think there is a need to compare Harry's cv to Russell's cv. Harry does have more runs on the board and has been a core player of the club for a long time...but he should not be given any more lattitude than anyone else. His spot is vulnerable if his form is not good. Russell's opening game for Collingwood was very good, and he will challenge for a spot in the top 22, so everyone needs to be on their game to retain their spot. If Russell's form justifies it, then he deserves his spot like anyone else. History counts for little.
But it's still very early days and all the games I watched on the weekend were filled with skill errors. Everyone has a fair bit of work to do before round 1.
Let's not write off a core member of our team, but let's also not make him immune to criticism. The depth is very good this year and no one in the side is safe.
Truth is that out of our back 6, Harry is the one who could find himself under pressure if he doesn't start locking down on his opponent, and he learns when to break the lines or slow things up.
He has been a great player for the club, but I think his best footy came when he used to play very tight lock down roles. I think he has become far too offensively minded. The problem with this is that he is prone to attacking blindly and without a plan.
I find it concering to hear that he has been playing on a wing in intra-club games. I don't think he needs more attacking freedom.
If his role is pure offence, I think we'll see guys like Seedsman, Russell, Young and Marley Williams threaten his spot.
I don't think there is a need to compare Harry's cv to Russell's cv. Harry does have more runs on the board and has been a core player of the club for a long time...but he should not be given any more lattitude than anyone else. His spot is vulnerable if his form is not good. Russell's opening game for Collingwood was very good, and he will challenge for a spot in the top 22, so everyone needs to be on their game to retain their spot. If Russell's form justifies it, then he deserves his spot like anyone else. History counts for little.
But it's still very early days and all the games I watched on the weekend were filled with skill errors. Everyone has a fair bit of work to do before round 1.
Let's not write off a core member of our team, but let's also not make him immune to criticism. The depth is very good this year and no one in the side is safe.
Last sentence fills my heart with glee dave, there is no greater help in pursuit of flag glory than depth, and quality depth at that. We seem to have it this year
Although this is true, Hawthorn were scored against very easily in the finals series and late in the season. They could've done with a Toovey or a Nathan Brown. That said, they have recruited Brian Lake and Guerra was injured.
But point remains that you need a few role players. Toovey and Maxwell are valuable commodoties and I wouldn't trade them. Shaw is prone to an odd skill error, but overall is a very good player and importantly also has a strong defensive element to his game. Reid and Brown and solid key posts. Where we may fall down is that our 2 attacking defenders are Harry and Ben Johnson...and neither are elite ball users.
It is why I see Seedsman going back, and why we recruited a guy like Ramsay. It is also why I see Lachie Keefe breaking back into the side when fit to free up Reid to distribute the ball.
Hawthorn definitely have skill coming out of defence, but ultimately they leaked too many goals in the finals series.
Sorry to intrude on your board guys but I agree with this post. I watched your games just to see how Russell went and was pleased to see that he played all 4 halves.
I think Russell is, very much, a confidence player. He ran second in our B&F 2 years ago when his confidence was up and, more importantly, the Carlton coaches had confidence in him.
I think, in the last season and a half, the coaching staff showed little confidence in him and this affected his game. Almost seemed like any mistake he made resulted in demotion and I don't see how anyone can play under that implied pressure.
If backed by your coaching staff I think he will repay your meagre investment in spades.
I was very sorry to see him go and would have loved to see if he could recapture his form under a new regime.
As a Carlton supporter I hope you don't win a game this year but I also hope Jordy can become a regular in your team. By all accounts he seems to be an excellent clubman and person.
Cheers, mate, and no offence taken that you hope we don't win a game. I guess we probably feel the same about Carlton, particularly with Mick Malthouse as your coach!
No offence meant
Cousin of Daicos
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Really? Shaw?
He, Toovey and Harry are currently in a contest for who can be the most ineffective kicking it out of there.
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Harry's only problem is playing on small forwards, too quick and too agile for him. He is big enough and strong enough in my opinion to play on medium or seond/third talls. I think his rebounding caused problems last year because our press wasn't as strong. In '10 and '11 the defence was pushed right up towards the forward 50 so Harry could bomb it straight into the 50 or have a ping when there was a turnover. '12 saw us under more pressure and he often could only run it just out of the 50 before he was under pressure, which in turn requires a more precise kick to a target instead of bombing it inside 50 or at goal. If I think a player should be out of the team I always like to justify it by saying who should come in. For my mind it either has to be Russell, Johnson or possibly Williams (if he kicks better than nab).
forwardflanker
Cancelled
You forgot Maxwell who is the worst at it. Shaw clearly makes better decisions than Toovey, O'Brien and Maxwell imo even if he does bomb to much like the other 3. I can cop Toovey making mistakes because he's a very good defensive player, as is Shaw imo and he gives us more rebound than the other two.
The second part of your answer is my major problem with O'Brien. We overrate him as a rebounding player because his disposal and decisions aren't that good and I don't think he makes up for that in his defensive player to demand a spot in the best 22.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
The problem is that he is not getting a game playing on medium forwards in front of Maxwell. If Keefe gets back the tallish players in our back six would look like Brown, Reid, Keefe, Toovey, Maxwell, O'Brien - that's way to many, especially if Goldsack is playing as a utility since he can play through there as well if needed. O'Brien and Maxwell are the worst of that group and as I said noones going to bet against the captain.
