Pakistan vs West Indies (2 tests)

[PhatBoy]

The Pakistanis have found something that they believe works for them, now maybe it might encourage people to the ground.

And encourage young people to play the game.

They can’t always prepare raging turners, but that’s the way it rolls.

The demarcation between road and minefield was often around midway day 3 in both Pakistan and India in the 70s 80s 90s.

Win the toss, win the game in most places. For differing reasons.

It’s worked this time because they’re playing a side that is just awful against spin full stop where Pakistan have a couple of guys that can fashion some runs against it.

This game would have gone the other way against any other team in the world I think up to and even including Afghanistan who I think would probably have batted better.

I understand what they’re trying to do. I get it and it makes sense. But they need to find a better balance

 

[Borisdog]

It’s worked this time because they’re playing a side that is just awful against spin full stop where Pakistan have a couple of guys that can fashion some runs against it.

This game would have gone the other way against any other team in the world I think up to and even including Afghanistan who I think would probably have batted better.

I understand what they’re trying to do. I get it and it makes sense. But they need to find a better balance

They seemed to sort the Poms out with the current formula, in fact the start of the formula.

I doubt it would’ve been better than 50/50 for any side in the world on that deck. In fact I’ll go 70/30 Pakistani.

Your lot aren’t great against spin, but good luck anyone on that deck. There’s simply not that many good players of spin around anymore.

I love watching it, but it’s an administrator’s nightmare. It’s the same as a pitch on day one that’s the same colour as the outfield.

Great to watch, but not so great for the “game”

 

[PhatBoy]

They seemed to sort the Poms out with the current formula, in fact the start of the formula.

I doubt it would’ve been better than 50/50 for any side in the world on that deck. In fact I’ll go 70/30 Pakistani.

Your lot aren’t great against spin, but good luck anyone on that deck. There’s simply not that many good players of spin around anymore.

I love watching it, but it’s an administrator’s nightmare. It’s the same as a pitch on day one that’s the same colour as the outfield.

Great to watch, but not so great for the “game”

The Pom decks weren’t quite this extreme; 366, 291, 267, 344 among the innings scores of the 7 completed.

112, 144, 221 were the others (the eighth was the 1-30-odd Pakistan needed to claim the win).

You’re right in that no team plays spin very well particularly - that’s 100 per cent correct.

I would wager that Sri Lanka probably have, as a team, a pretty well credentialed side.

I think if they served that up against say an NZ for example, Santner and Patel as ordinary as they can be at times, could turn it on with the ball, and if you get a Ravindra or Williamson special just in one innings or Mitchell clobbers 75 at a run a ball, it’s game over.


I love watching it too as matches progress to that point. I genuinely have a chub for watching the masters of spin play against the ball when it’s ragging and bouncing and shooting etc.

I just don’t like it when it’s happening from ball one with a bit of artificial assistance that you can’t really prepare too much for.

I don’t think it was unfair because Pakistan struggled just as much and that partnership was excellent between shakeel and Rizwan. Every batsman had to battle. I just don’t think it made for good cricket and I don’t think at that extreme level it’s in Pakistan’s interest. Dialled back a notch would bring their own batsmen in their own conditions back into the game more while still exposing overseas batsmen IMO

 

[Borisdog]

The Pom decks weren’t quite this extreme; 366, 291, 267, 344 among the innings scores of the 7 completed.

112, 144, 221 were the others (the eighth was the 1-30-odd Pakistan needed to claim the win).

You’re right in that no team plays spin very well particularly - that’s 100 per cent correct.

I would wager that Sri Lanka probably have, as a team, a pretty well credentialed side.

I think if they served that up against say an NZ for example, Santner and Patel as ordinary as they can be at times, could turn it on with the ball, and if you get a Ravindra or Williamson special just in one innings or Mitchell clobbers 75 at a run a ball, it’s game over.


I love watching it too as matches progress to that point. I genuinely have a chub for watching the masters of spin play against the ball when it’s ragging and bouncing and shooting etc.

I just don’t like it when it’s happening from ball one with a bit of artificial assistance that you can’t really prepare too much for.

I don’t think it was unfair because Pakistan struggled just as much and that partnership was excellent between shakeel and Rizwan. Every batsman had to battle. I just don’t think it made for good cricket and I don’t think at that extreme level it’s in Pakistan’s interest. Dialled back a notch would bring their own batsmen in their own conditions back into the game more while still exposing overseas batsmen IMO

I largely agree.

It's the same as any pitch that's tilted too far toward any facet of skill. It just makes for a tough game unless you're a proponent of that skill.

There's nothing wrong with the old, tough to bat day 1 against the quicks, getting better Day 2,3, spinners coming into it Day 4,5. And I've seen sub-continent pitches with exactly those characteristics.

That can't be done everywhere in the world but as a guide it's not bad.

 

[PhatBoy]

I largely agree.

It's the same as any pitch that's tilted too far toward any facet of skill. It just makes for a tough game unless you're a proponent of that skill.

There's nothing wrong with the old, tough to bat day 1 against the quicks, getting better Day 2,3, spinners coming into it Day 4,5. And I've seen sub-continent pitches with exactly those characteristics.

That can't be done everywhere in the world but as a guide it's not bad.

I don’t even really have a problem per se with pitches over there where on day 1 the quicks aren’t given ‘helpful’ conditions.

But it would be good for it to be a case where it’s kind of ‘neutral’ and they’re just as likely to succeed as a spinner would be.

I don’t necessarily think that was the case with this pitch - I think Seales bowled exceptionally to get the results he did and probably didn’t have a right to get any response from the surface

 

[Lunchtime]

Interesting