List Mgmt. OFFICIAL: Dangerfield + Pick 50 for Picks 9, 28 and Dean Gore

[arsene wenger1]

when the rules are abused yes. that is what is happening. you have the right to match to keep him at your club, not simply to manipulate the system. when rules don't function correctly they get changed, the AFL do it every year. you really think that Adelaide abusing the rule won't lead to it being changed, and in the process of it being changed the PA will push alot harder to ensure the same abuse can't happen leading to a system far more favorable to the players than the current system?

play it out logically and you will see that the AFL and the AFLPA will both be putting serious pressure on adelaide not to abuse the system.

Also dont waste more space in this thread about how it is 'within the rules' blah blah. hawthorn rushing behinds every time a geelong player looked at them in the 08 GF was within the rules. the AFL changed the rules because it was seen as an abuse. Hawthorn tackling players and holding them down during link up handball through the middle was on the edge of legal, but the AFL saw it as an abuse and changed the rule...

you see my point? the afl always change rules to prevent abuse that is seen to look bad, and those two things looked bad. This situation if it enters a protracted fight and possible ultimatums when all that is happening is a player trying to move under free agency, you can guarantee that it will end in a rule change, and the AFLPA will ensure the change will not be in the clubs best interests so the AFL and likely other clubs will all be pressuring the Crows to think it through long term. Otherwise, you may want to only recruit local lads in the future.

The flaw in this is that he will be playing at the club of his choice next season....we won't stop the player moving. If he doesn't get to geelong then the PA can kick up a fuss

 

[GFrost]

Victorian-born Dangerfield said his decision to seek a return to his native Geelong area was "obviously the most difficult decision that I have ever had to make".

"It's one that I suppose brings two really different emotions," he said.

"On one side, that joy of going home and the prospect of starting a family with my beautiful fiance Mardi.

"But then at the same time, great sadness because the Adelaide Football Club has been a huge part of my life over the past eight years.

"The hardest thing is the incredible relationships that you build with so many great people ... and so many people that are willing do absolutely anything in order to help you."

 

[Turbocat]

Victorian-born Dangerfield said his decision to seek a return to his native Geelong area was "obviously the most difficult decision that I have ever had to make".

"It's one that I suppose brings two really different emotions," he said.

"On one side, that joy of going home and the prospect of starting a family with my beautiful fiance Mardi.

"But then at the same time, great sadness because the Adelaide Football Club has been a huge part of my life over the past eight years.

"The hardest thing is the incredible relationships that you build with so many great people ... and so many people that are willing do absolutely anything in order to help you."

and its just a shame so many people say Im a traitor , a deceiver ... hello Graham

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Who is the underdog here? The narrative has to eventually follow the individual (Patrick) vs the behemoth (The Adelaide Football Club) doesn't it? At the moment Geelong are still just a sweet note on the whispering wind, and we will be until something concrete has emerged.

Put simply, the narrative will follow whatever happens to sell papers and by extension, won't stay the same for too long because of that. The winds are about to change...

 

[Turbocat]

The flaw in this is that he will be playing at the club of his choice next season....we won't stop the player moving. If he doesn't get to geelong then the PA can kick up a fuss

You will not prevent moving ...great just accept the comp and all is happy

 

[Turbocat]

I watched his speech, a few references to the "lure of home" and how Adelaide has been "a home away from home."

There was clearly a lot of awkwardness in the room and Laird (2nd place) and Betts (3rd) got much larger cheers from the crowd than Danger did.

To be expected....

 

[Mitch3233]

I'm sorry, I've been largely sympathetic to the crow fans, it's a shit thing to go through, but god that Club Champion thread is embarrassing. Get over yourselves.

 

[thegerman]

For a start...you're not sorry.

And the debate was rel. to movement. Your preventing ..or should I say your intention to match is a prevention of movement. Nothing untoward..you're doing what you see is in your immediate best interest. Don't deny what your doing... bathe in the full glow of the master servant relationship... enjoy that even after 8 years of indentured servitude you get to influence his hard earned free agency. You have done nothing ..."wrong"..or illegal... far from it... i'm sure plenty of high flying legal manipulators know that it matters not anyway if your are right or wrong...its just what the rules are.

They'll like free movement of players when it's to the Crows, just not the other way

 

[Catatonic Shock]

I'm sorry, I've been largely sympathetic to the crow fans, it's a shit thing to go through, but god that Club Champion thread is embarrassing. Get over yourselves.

Brb reading said thread...

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Danger winning their B&F is just another reason for the AFL to offer an extra compensation pick to the AFC IMO. I'm becoming more and more confident of this...

 

[Mitch3233]

Danger winning their B&F is just another reason for the AFL to offer an extra compensation pick to the AFC IMO. I'm becoming more and more confident of this...

If he does win the Brownlow you can bank on a Tuesday morning press release from AFLHQ saying saying they this is an 'exceptional circumstance' and are 'reconsidering the current compensation'

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

I'm sorry, I've been largely sympathetic to the crow fans, it's a shit thing to go through, but god that Club Champion thread is embarrassing. Get over yourselves.

It is sad to see what some people write. Dangerfield's speech was incredible given the context and will be an unbelievable asset for Geelong next year and beyond.

Full credit to him for attending the night, he did the right thing and deserves a lot more than the garbage certain Adelaide supporters have give him. He has been outstanding for us this year and fully deserves the award (and to the poster who questioned the output of Jacobs in the final game, watching the replay- he monstered the Hawthorn rucks in the middle and around the ground, Dangerfield kept us in it early but Jacobs was Adelaide's best throughout). It is a difficult situation, but there is no reason not to believe his reasons and I wish him and Mardy nothing but the best

 

[Mitch3233]

It is sad to see what some people write. Dangerfield's speech was incredible given the context and will be an unbelievable asset for Geelong next year and beyond.

Full credit to him for attending the night, he did the right thing and deserves a lot more than the garbage certain Adelaide supporters have give him. He has been outstanding for us this year and fully deserves the award (and to the poster who questioned the output of Jacobs in the final game, watching the replay- he monstered the Hawthorn rucks in the middle and around the ground, Dangerfield kept us in it early but Jacobs was Adelaide's best throughout). It is a difficult situation, but there is no reason not to believe his reasons and I wish him and Mardy nothing but the best

Yes and I fully understand it's not all of you. But I'm just at a loss to understand what he is supposed to do/say. I think he has handled himself well. It's a shame more of them can't see it rationally like you.

 

[PorcelainBus]

Sorry if it's already been thought of - but 790 pages is too much to trawl through.
What's to stop Crows getting compensation pick 14/15 then Cats trading 9 and our second for their 14/15?
Win/Win i would think.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Gold jacket, Green jacket, who gives a shit.

 

[relapse]

You will not prevent moving ...great just accept the comp and all is happy

The other side of the coin is that if Geelong are so keen to get Dangerfield before he's an unrestricted free agent then the club should actually come up with a deal that the Crows aren't prepared to match. Restricted free agents usually come with higher price tags than unrestricted players because the clubs have the ability to match the offer. It's the way it works in US sport where teams matching RFA deals are common place as they will eventually be in the AFL.

The whole purpose of restricted free agency is to provide a safety net for clubs to protect them from opposition clubs attempting to sign restricted free agents on lowball deals. I think the belief that clubs should turn a blind eye and ignore the rules of restricted free agency (which are there to protect all clubs) and the expectation that clubs should be treating players as unrestricted free agents (even though they have not yet qualified) actually goes against the spirit of the rule.

Hypothetically if Selwood wanted to leave Geelong as a RFA and sign with Hawthorn on $700k a year (which is way below his market value) are you telling me that Geelong wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing ? Geelong would be absolutely crazy if they didn't.

 

[Catastic82]

The other side of the coin is that if Geelong are so keen to get Dangerfield before he's an unrestricted free agent then the club should actually come up with a deal that the Crows aren't prepared to match. Restricted free agents usually come with higher price tags than unrestricted players because the clubs have the ability to match the offer. It's the way it works in US sport where teams matching RFA deals are common place as they will eventually be in the AFL.

The whole purpose of restricted free agency is to provide a safety net for clubs to protect them from opposition clubs attempting to sign restricted free agents on lowball deals. I think the belief that clubs should turn a blind eye and ignore the rules of restricted free agency (which are there to protect all clubs) and the expectation that clubs should be treating players as unrestricted free agents (even though they have not yet qualified) actually goes against the spirit of the rule.

Hypothetically if Selwood wanted to leave Geelong as a RFA and sign with Hawthorn on $700k a year (which is way below his market value) or you telling me that Geelong wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing ? Geelong would be absolutely crazy if they didn't.

Difference is we can keep our quality players and if they really want to go we help them get to where they want even if it means taking unders.

Something your franchise organisation could learn from.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Good to actually hear him mention Geelong by name tonight. (rather then saying he's going home or going to Victoria)

Just need to get the deal done and I'll be excited.

 

[PorcelainBus]

Good to actually hear him mention Geelong by name tonight. (rather then saying he's going home or going to Victoria)

Just need to get the deal done and I'll be excited.

He didn't mention Victoria - Crows did

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

He didn't mention Victoria - Crows did

I know that.

 

[Turbocat]

The other side of the coin is that if Geelong are so keen to get Dangerfield before he's an unrestricted free agent then the club should actually come up with a deal that the Crows aren't prepared to match. Restricted free agents usually come with higher price tags than unrestricted players because the clubs have the ability to match the offer. It's the way it works in US sport where teams matching RFA deals are common place as they will eventually be in the AFL.

The whole purpose of restricted free agency is to provide a safety net for clubs to protect them from opposition clubs attempting to sign restricted free agents on lowball deals. I think the belief that clubs should turn a blind eye and ignore the rules of restricted free agency (which are there to protect all clubs) and the expectation that clubs should be treating players as unrestricted free agents (even though they have not yet qualified) actually goes against the spirit of the rule.

Hypothetically if Selwood wanted to leave Geelong as a RFA and sign with Hawthorn on $700k a year (which is way below his market value) or you telling me that Geelong wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing ? Geelong would be absolutely crazy if they didn't.

First ..the discussion centred around freedom of movement ..Im glad to see you embrace the role of the stopper.

As to how Free Agency works in US sports....I have no specific reference point to say... this is the perfect example as it works differently in different sports For NBA.. a restricted Free Agent happens after 3 years... and the must receive an offer from the qualifying club @125% of his previous wage. In the NHL if you are 27 or have 7 years service you are a FA ... its complicated.and different ..and Im not sure we can make exact comparisons.
Not too many comps if any I can find that a player is a RFA after 8 years of service. I find it totally wrong that one player has to serve two more years than another due to his wage , or in some instances the ones contract was structured.

Turn a blind eye...Im not saying that..Im saying that like all self involved organisations you will do whats best for you...

 

[relapse]

He didn't mention Victoria - Crows did

The only reason that Geelong is not mentioned is because everyone has to pussyfoot around the AFL's free agency rules.

Dangerfield is technically not supposed to be offered a contract until the opening of the free agency period (9th October). If Dangerfield,Geelong or Adelaide were to come out and say that Dangerfield has agreed to terms with Geelong it is a breach of the rules, so everyone has to play charades and pretend that Dangerfield is going home to Victoria, but has not yet been made any offers from other clubs.

Once the 9th October rolls around he'll then nominate his acceptance of the Geelong offer (which he would have agreed to months ago).

 

[cats_09]

Sorry if it's already been thought of - but 790 pages is too much to trawl through.
What's to stop Crows getting compensation pick 14/15 then Cats trading 9 and our second for their 14/15?
Win/Win i would think.

The fact that the AFL wouldn't sign off on that deal - with draft picks now being assigned points (to do with the new bidding system), when it comes to the trading of draft picks the AFL (and most likely the other 16 teams also) would want to see some form of equality in points between picks being traded.

If the only compensation pick given out this off-season was 1 compo pick to Adelaide for the lost of Dangerfield, then our pick 9 is worth 1469 & our 2nd pick would be 28 which is worth 677, totaling 2146; the Crows compo pick would be pick 14 with a value of 1161 - the different of nearly 1000 points means its a trade the AFL (and 16 other clubs) would question as it wouldn't be equal, but rather a clear winner & clear loser with the trade.

While trades won't work out as being a total win-win with what you lose equaling what you get in, there has to be a proximity of parity in the values of traded picks between teams. Examples from recent trade periods are:
- 2014, Geelong & Adelaide: Geelong trade picks 14 & 35 (1683), Adelaide trade picks 10 & 47 (1711)
- 2013, St Kilda & Hawthorn: St Kilda trade picks 24 & 59 (943), Hawthorn trade pick 19 (948)
- 2013, Collingwood & West Coast: Collingwood trade picks 11, 31 & 49 (2222), West Coast trade picks 6 & 44 (2113).

I also can't see Adelaide trading away the compo pick they receive for Dangerfield, especially if they only receive 1 compo pick for him, even if they are getting pick 9 in return.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Who is going to get the "Dangerfield to Selwood" username

 

[one eyed cat]

I'm sorry, I've been largely sympathetic to the crow fans, it's a shit thing to go through, but god that Club Champion thread is embarrassing. Get over yourselves.

Had a look at what the crows fans were saying, had to see it for myself, they r a disgrace really, It's like the end of the world is coming. Im a newbie here, what were the cats fans here like when Ablett left. We had half a season to get used to the idea(bout the same as crows fans with DF). Im not saying I was disappointed when I first heard about the rumours, but by the time it actually happened, I had well and truely accepted it, and looking forward to the nxt season. This is going to b an annual happening for every club, People need to start getting used to it, Otherwise they will do their heads in. Crow fans r crying foul now, but what will they b saying when their club poaches an A grader from whoever it mayb PS: thank God they r all in sth aust.