Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott - Will appear on AFL360 coaches night on Monday 24th

[madrigal]

I am glad he understands that exposing a young key defender to Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker has the potential to set them back.

 

[jdstorm]

Are we going to win a premiership with Shiel in the side?
Did we win a premiership with Heppell and Kelly over D'Ambrosio?

Shiel shouldn't be in the team on Thursday. I was willing for Scott to try him out, but his effort on Saturday was unacceptable. We need to set standards and drop him.

We can't make a whole song and dance about forcing Stringer out and rebuilding, then gift games to another senior player that is not even giving us the bare minimum.

Tell me
You don’t understand rebuilding without telling me you don’t understand.

All rebuilding sides have tank commanders/punching bags who absorb the bad losses so not all your talented youngsters get beaten too many times early and loose all
Their confidence.

Scott wants a VFL sample size of the young HB/Wing players before giving them opportunities. That’s perfectly reasonable.

 

[andleanback]

Scott’s job is to win games, if Dylan Shiel is 1% better than Lual, Shiel should play.

It’s Rosa job to remove Shiel from the list so he can’t be picked.

That’s not true at all

 

[maskmcgee]

Eight-minute grilling: Coach quizzed over ‘full blown rebuild’ talk… and if stars have ‘stagnated’

8-minute grilling: Coach quizzed over ‘full blown rebuild’ talk… and if Dons’ ‘toughest years are now’

www.foxsports.com.au

 

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[FootyGuru]

That’s not true at all

Everyone who keeps asking about the clubs professionalism

can you have professionalism from the playing group if some of the guys aren’t getting a game because of age? It creates cancers in the playing group.

Can a coach really sell the players hope of winning If they are running out with players who are worse?

You need to have equal standards for every player, you can’t do that if some are ineligible for selection and some are getting games due to age not form.

If the seasons alive winning is the plan. Once it’s out of equation you look to predict who might be in your best 22 next season and you play them.

Rosa did a pretty good job of setting this team up to play the young guys anyway. I still think that when setterfeild, leverde, parish are all fit Scott might push out some youth at stages this season.

 

[Call Me Cake]

That’s not true at all

Ideally all players should be picked on form. It sets standards and selection pressure which makes younger players better. If we don't have a younger player viable enough to push out an older player based on form then that's our fault and it's an area we then have to address either through the draft, recruiting or developing better in.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Does that mean no Harley Reid this year then?

And maybe ever

Is that a fair judgment to make from tonights comments.

It could work both ways. Reid does fit into our youth plans being 19 and if they club thinks he is better than whatever will be at pick 4 and 8, the club will do it.

But, I think Tassie has scared the club into this action. The club has sat down and said, will this list in a flag in two/three years time and the answer is no.

It could be a genius move in the end, which is surprising for the club as we are usually last to the party.

 

[Foxx]

Does that mean no Harley Reid this year then?

And maybe ever

Is that a fair judgment to make from tonights comments

Dodoro would have traded our top picks for Reid.
Rosa is too conservative to do that.
Scott and Rosa will go to the draft based on what we now know from both of them.

The only way we get Reid is player swaps and late picks.

 

[faible]

We've often set up players to fail by bringing in young draftees and asking too much of them before they find their feet.

It's not going to do any harm to have Johnston et al running around in the VFL for a month or two building form and continuity until they can do the same at AFL level.

Meanwhile, we've destroyed Cox by playing him on a wing (where he never played at U18 level) until he's broken - physically, mentally and probably emotionally.

 

[faible]

Dodoro would have traded our top picks for Reid.

Very little of what we've seen from Dodoro would suggest he'd have done this.

 

[Foxx]

Very little of what we've seen from Dodoro would suggest he'd have done this.

Dylan Shiel.

 

[dank420_]

Dylan Shiel.

In 2017 we gave away 4 picks for Smith and Stringer.

 

[faible]

Dylan Shiel.

So that's one trade, in ~ 20 years of drafting. Conversely they said no to the price of Dunkley.

Doesn't exactly suggest Dodoro would trade a kings ransom for Reid (which is what he'll cost).

 

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[joey_jo_jo]

So that's one trade, in ~ 20 years of drafting. Conversely they said no to the price of Dunkley.

Doesn't exactly suggest Dodoro would trade a kings ransom for Reid (which is what he'll cost).

from memory didnt Dodoro baulk at the request from GWS but Richardson overruled him?
Cant blame him for that but what annoys me is so reactive, as you say he baulked at Dunkley after paying overs for Shiel, but every trade should be assessed on its own merit. I would have taken the Dunkley deal regardless of what happened with shiel. Shiel was another smaller mid without the defensive mindset, DUnkley was exactly what was required - leadership, defensive traits and bigger body.

 

[FootyGuru]

Dylan Shiel.

Wasn’t dodorro against trading 2frp for Shiel but the committee overruled him? He balked at 2 for Dunkley.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Wasn’t dodorro against trading 2frp for Shiel but the committee overruled him? He balked at 2 for Dunkley.

Yeah thats what I understand too, Dodoro was going to walk from the Shiel trade but RIchardson overruled him.

 

[faible]

The only one really.

 

[Chief Hopper]

I think this club is trying to reinvent the wheel by sending out a young playing group.
Didn't work with GWS, Gold Coast, North. If anything it has held those teams back longer.

Hawks, Geelong, Pies, Fremantle and now Adelaide all showed a balance is needed.
We've already got more game time into a core group of under 24 year olds then many of the other young sides. I'm not seeing our young players with 20+ more games being a whole lot better for it. Sure maybe those early picks of ours didnt work out great. But then could easily say those young players mental strength has been shot from continued losses and that was the key reason.

Just feels this club has already gone the youth route and Scott is preparing us for another 3 years of youth games and bottom 6 results with no clear outcome.

Where is the spine in this team, where is out midfield green shoots? The best we played was with Hird pre saga implosion, it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world if he came in as a consultant.

 

[cAsEy_18]

"Essendon weren't willing to pay the price for Dunkley" is one of the most common "misremembering the situation"s that goes around.

There was no price that bulldogs would accept. Dunkley was under contract, they wanted to keep him and any picks offered were going to get eaten up by a Jamarra bid. There was no deal to be done, or price for us to "baulk at".

 

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[faible]

The best we played was with Hird pre saga implosion, it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world if he came in as a consultant.

And so it begins.

 

[Foxx]

Shiel was a bad one though. But yes I see your point.
My original point of Rosa being too conservative to trade multiple top picks for Reid was what I was getting at.

 

[faible]

Shiel was a bad one though. But yes I see your point.
My original point of Rosa being too conservative to trade multiple top picks for Reid was what I was getting at.

We know pretty much nothing about what Rosa will or won't do, and any trade for Reid will involve the Coach and CEO in discussions as well given what he'd cost.

We do know the club has pretty consistently said they plan to maintain a position in the draft, and according to Whateley, Rosa presented a three year plan to the club regarding list management, which I assume is draft heavy given Tassie is coming in so you'd want to get your drafting done ASAP.

 

[Zach Package]

Scott’s job is to win games

Scott's job is to put a process in place and implement best practice in every element of the football department, once you get that right, in all likelihood success follows suit. The broad remit he has is so he can establish those processes.

If you tell him his job is to win games then he'll take shortcuts to get there, which is literally the opposite of the outcome we want.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

We know pretty much nothing about what Rosa will or won't do, and any trade for Reid will involve the Coach and CEO in discussions as well given what he'd cost.

We do know the club has pretty consistently said they plan to maintain a position in the draft, and according to Whateley, Rosa presented a three year plan to the club regarding list management, which I assume is draft heavy given Tassie is coming in so you'd want to get your drafting done ASAP.

The only thing I would add to this is Vozzo did state in the interview with Tim Watson that there were stages in the plan and after hitting the draft they have 5 or so established players on a trade target list.

 

[BrunoV]

Dodoro's problem was that he genuinely did not seem to understand how critical characteristics of players manifested themselves as the necessary and useful attributes required for a good team. This is why during his Dodcast he made reference to Langford and Cutler in a discussion about big bodied midfielders - a sackable offence in my book. Yeah, sure, they had big bodies but that did not mean that they were capable of providing the crucial physical presence around the ball associated with the term (and which had been lacking since Watson, Myers and Hocking fell off their respective cliffs in about 2017). I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but in the 5 to 6 years that he genuinely had control from 2017 the best he did was Stringer and trying to steal Dunkley from the Dogs (with 2 years on his contract). We have a bunch of guys who have a burst for a clean break from a stoppage but have basically never had quality endurance athletes play in the middle (or even on the wings).

I also am not sure that he has the base level feel for the game that can see through pizzazz. Jordan Houlihan who, at 183cm, had the athleticism of a lumbering ruck was apparently one of the best prospects in the 2017 draft (likely because he could fly for a screamer). It's also why we've ended up with a fleet of midfielders who struggle to win the hard ball whether they are 178cm or 186cm - almost as though someone never understood that the contested possession stat is largely based on loose ball gets and who didn't see the game clearly enough to question what the numbers were telling him. The sexy part of the game is the clean break from a stoppage (i.e. a loose ball get) but it's also almost purely ruck driven. Dodoro has always fallen for it.

I think it is Zach Package who was the first to articulate that Essendon was recruiting like it was playing a different sport to the rest of the competition. My suspicion is that Dodoro saw the game through some mad lens Sheedy shared with him, without possessing any of the mad genius that Sheedy could use to interpret what he saw.

We missed every trend in the game during his time and he failed to build coherent squads all while Dodoro was starting with another rebuild of the spine. We recruited 4 players who were most likely to be key defenders in 2020 and took role players from 1, 5 and 6 in the post SAGA rebuild. He really did not display the first idea of how to build a coherent squad of players for any of the eras during which he was list boss.

But he was never really one to overpay. He was overridden on the Shiel deal (after he'd been out manoeuvred).