Melbourne priority pick

[LouisCK]

You posted because you had a little brainfart and wanted to spew it onto the internet.

You started with a completely false premise, then used bad logic to come up with a stupid scenario that has never and will never exist, then applied a ludicrous solution to this non-existent problem.

 

[Sprout]

To be frank, I think melbourne are fortunate to have any picks in this national draft this year given the punishment Adelaide took last year and what was dealt out to carlton when they lost draft picks.

I have no desire to steer this off topic, but comparing Melbourne's punishment to that given to Adelaide and Carlton is comparing apples with oranges. Completely different courses of action.

Melbourne were, hopefully, the last in a long line of teams that did what they thought was best for the club's future under what was an essentially flawed draft system. When you have all this conjecture over just one draft pick, it's little wonder that a club would look at the greater good when the outcome of a single game can determine whether or not you get that prized pick.

Anyhow, you got away with it scott free so it's a bit rich coming from a Carlton supporter. We got fined and kicked from pillar to post, with lasting effects on the club that still remain. You're carrying on like the club is somehow not at its lowest point. Once again, getting caught up in whether it is deserved is missing the point. The AFL wants and needs an even competition. Debate the system if you want, but under the current system, Melbourne are eligible.

 

[dean33]

can't remember the tigers getting a priority pick 3 years ago when we were a basket case... give them nothing. fight out of it themselves...

 

[Dazb86]

Melbournes list is actually not too bad. With the right structures in place they could become a reasonable side pretty quickly. They really need to nail a few gun midfielders this draft though.

For all the doom and gloom their backline and forward line are pretty reasonable. If my midfield for instance was getting -100 disposals each week we'd be being belted by a lot more than what Melbourne currently is.

Sacking Neeld was the right decision. Had either lost the players or they just don't give a **** about losing.

They don't need a PP whatsoever.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I can see why other teams would be frustrated btw. Its just that, if the AFL don't award one to the Demons for their current situation, they should abolish it altogether.

There are (secret) guidelines in place for awarding a priority pick. If Melbourne meet the criteria, so be it. But there's no way known they should be awarded picks arbitrarily, just because they've asked for them.

 

[Hellgood]

Theres simply no point in throwing more talent at them, thats been tried and failed miserably. They need a decent football club structure which is what they've lacked for the last half a decade. I don't see an issue with the AFL stepping in to help them achieve that, by providing them the cash to make the necessary changes and remove the guys who dug the hole that they are in (Schwab, Connolly, Neeld, Viney), but what I don't like is them just being thrown more picks leading to more wasted careers just because it is the easy solution as far as the AFL is concerned.

The whole tanking saga, the overcompensation for Scully as well as the deal with GWS to free up another first round draft pick so they could take Viney shows that they've been given plenty of gifts the last few years, which they failed to take advantage of and decided to put more hope in the future by going to the mini draft to take their next great white hope in Hogan means that the wider AFL community will rightfully be frustrated if they recieve more gifts of multiple picks of top junior talent out of the pool which other sides have been denied access from for a number of years now.

They need to demolish before they rebuild.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Give em the cash to sort their shit out off field so that they can develop the likes of Hogan, Viney, Toumpas, Watts, Trengove, Blease, Barry, McDonald and pick 2 properly and at best an end of round one compo.

Giving them picks 2 & 3 is just taking the piss and rewarding planned mediocrity.

No, strike that. Bailing them out of a mess of their own making is already taking the piss. Giving them picks 2&3 would be completely unpalatable for the vast majority of supporters. A later compo might be slightly more acceptable.

 

[the harry]

Theres simply no point in throwing more talent at them, thats been tried and failed miserably. They need a decent football club structure which is what they've lacked for the last half a decade. I don't see an issue with the AFL stepping in to help them achieve that, by providing them the cash to make the necessary changes and remove the guys who dug the hole that they are in (Schwab, Connolly, Neeld, Viney), but what I don't like is them just being thrown more picks leading to more wasted careers just because it is the easy solution as far as the AFL is concerned.

The whole tanking saga, the overcompensation for Scully as well as the deal with GWS to free up another first round draft pick so they could take Viney shows that they've been given plenty of gifts the last few years, which they failed to take advantage of and decided to put more hope in the future by going to the mini draft to take their next great white hope in Hogan means that the wider AFL community will rightfully be frustrated if they recieve more gifts of multiple picks of top junior talent out of the pool which other sides have been denied access from for a number of years now.

They need to demolish before they rebuild.

Fair enough to have an opinion, but this line is just silly. They are going to fill their list with the 30 or 40 odd players they need, regardless of whether it's a first round pick or a rookie pick. Why should it matter whose careers is "wasted"? Are you saying that just because you are a better junior footballer that you should have the keys to a better club than one that has worked just as hard, despite limitations?

 

[mighty tiges]

can't remember the tigers getting a priority pick 3 years ago when we were a basket case... give them nothing. fight out of it themselves...

Worst side since Fitzroy wasn't it with a $5 million debt and a decade without playing finals (alongside just two finals appearances in 30 years). At least with any success we achieve from now on we'll be able to say we achieved it by ourselves via our own hard work on and especially off-field.

It'll be a joke if Melbourne is given a priority pick. They were regular finalists from 1987-1991 under Northey, 1994 under Balme and 1998-2006 under Daniher including two Grand Finals. 7 years of being crap is nothing new. Most clubs have gone through terrible times as long if not longer than that. Add to that Melbourne's situation is one of their own incompetent creation. They deserve no sympathy or pity! They've had priority picks in the past thanks to tanking for them and it's solved nothing. Melbourne's problem is a cultural one - an old boys club living in the past looking for quick easy short cuts rather than cleaning out and reforming the place from top to bottom and doing the necessary hard yards on and off-field (Richmond had a similar cultural problem until 3 years ago). The AFL giving out handouts and another priority pick to Melbourne will only encourage and further entrench a terrible culture within that club.

 

[Sprout]

Do we seriously need to point out, again, that the person who has made the assessment that a PP is needed has been appointed by the AFL itself? Has he been indoctrinated into Melbourne's "terrible culture" within a month of being at the club?

Do we also need to look through the history of other clubs getting a leg up in this competition?

Nah, it's much better to wave the finger at that evil Melbourne rabble, isn't it.

I'd be quite content not to get a PP. in fact I'd probably rather we didn't get it if the Dogs are left in the lurch. But there is no pretending that in its current state, the club doesn't qualify. If it doesn't, then no club does.

 

[bluespooner]

Once again, getting caught up in whether it is deserved is missing the point. The AFL wants and needs an even competition. Debate the system if you want, but under the current system, Melbourne are eligible.

Because it is a competition, intrinsically it can never be even. If it wasn't a competition but more about who's turn it is to win why would anyone bother watching it.

Do you think the powerful Melbourne FC of the 1950s and early 1960s cared much about the also rans of the competition like Hawthorn back then. Just on wikipedia:

• Hawthorn in the first seventeen years never won more than seven games in a season.
• Between 1944 and 1953 the club finished last or second last in every year but one.
• In 1957 the senior team broke through for their first finals appearance, after being admitted in 1925.

At least now with the drafting system, a well managed club should be able to improve itself over time. A MFC with at least one early draft pick this year, combined with your highest paid player back on the field next season, Hogan, and more input from all those early draft picks will improve regardless, of a PP over and above this. On top of this there was already the overly generous AFL compensation provided for Tom Sully and the extremely fortuitous outcome of being able to draft Viney with a second round pick, when he was easily a top ten talent in last year's draft.

Then you have the fact that melbourne has totally escaped punishment over throwing games; a condign punishment as a consequence of throwing games to win a PP and improve draft position should have been to lose draft picks in subsequent seasons. Indeed, melbourne was fined which works out to be no penalty as now the AFL pays it, and by AFL it means the other clubs of the competition.

It seems some melbourne supporters believe the premiership should be awarded to them as of next season. In time melbourne will improve, and it's likely they won't have to wait 32 years for their next final's appearance - I couldn't imagine their fair weather supporters hanging around if this was the case.

 

[Sprout]

bluespooner - with all due respect, try walking in the shoes of a Melbourne supporter for the past 7 years and then get back to me.

Most are willing to accept whatever the AFL wants to do because frankly, most of us can hardly remember what it's like to enjoy a day at the footy.

 

[Tiger71]

bluespooner - with all due respect, try walking in the shoes of a Melbourne supporter for the past 7 years and then get back to me.

Most are willing to accept whatever the AFL wants to do because frankly, most of us can hardly remember what it's like to enjoy a day at the footy.

Cry me a river!

Sorry I don't mean to be harsh but I am a 41 year old Richmond Supporter and member for the last 23 years. I vagely remember the 80 and 82 grand final but other then that I have see shit all my adult life other then 95 and 01. I could list the shit I have delt with, finally making a final in 95 then losing our coach at the end of the year etc etc

Seriously Melbourne supporters, stop expecting "special" support like Priority Picks. Look where that got your club trying to tank for them. IMO demand from your club improvement, hammer them BUT support them. Only then will change happen

 

[Sprout]

Cry me a river!

Sorry I don't mean to be harsh but I am a 41 year old Richmond Supporter and member for the last 23 years. I vagely remember the 80 and 82 grand final but other then that I have see shit all my adult life other then 95 and 01. I could list the shit I have delt with, finally making a final in 95 then losing our coach at the end of the year etc etc

Seriously Melbourne supporters, stop expecting "special" support like Priority Picks. Look where that got your club trying to tank for them. IMO demand from your club improvement, hammer them BUT support them. Only then will change happen

Try reading my posts, and tell me where I am "expecting" or even wanting a priority pick. All I've said is that we qualify, and if they deem it a necessary move to make us competitive, fine.

I was not responding to a Tiger supporter, and I certainly don't expect or want sympathy from anyone outside the club.

 

[melbournemartin]

Debatable. Give it a season under a new coach and board. David Koch has instituted cultural change at Port from the top down. Brendon Gale likewise at Richmond.

They have both done well so far, but I think it's a tougher job to bring Melbourne up to that level.

 

[LeverPuller]

Just to go back to a statistical side of things...

Since Rd 1, 2007:

Won: 33 Games (of a possible 144; 2 draws)
Win%: 22%
Overall Percentage: Approx 65%.

Even when you factor in the 'good' years of 2010-11, this side is every bit as bad as some of the other terrible sides - Fitzroy and Carlton come to mind. Richmond, despite their struggles, haven't had a period this consistently bad. The Tigers have been seriously unlucky, and probably deserved a PP at one point. Nevertheless, when the media were pumping them up as the "worst since Fitzroy" the Tigers finished the year with six wins and a percentage of 73.

If the Dees were to do similar I'd advocate not giving them a PP. If they fail to win a game or only win against GWS, then I'd suggest they get one - not because I want one, but because the AFL needs to set some sort of precedent of terrible performance under the new PP rule. If Melbourne have a one- or two-win season and don't get one, no side ever will get close, as such a season will be the worst since Carlton's early 2000s sides.

Regardless of *possible* improvement, the AFL have to factor in the current situation.

 

[TheProwler]

Just to go back to a statistical side of things...

Since Rd 1, 2007:

Won: 33 Games (of a possible 144; 2 draws)
Win%: 22%
Overall Percentage: Approx 65%.

Even when you factor in the 'good' years of 2010-11, this side is every bit as bad as some of the other terrible sides - Fitzroy and Carlton come to mind. Richmond, despite their struggles, haven't had a period this consistently bad. The Tigers have been seriously unlucky, and probably deserved a PP at one point. Nevertheless, when the media were pumping them up as the "worst since Fitzroy" the Tigers finished the year with six wins and a percentage of 73.

If the Dees were to do similar I'd advocate not giving them a PP. If they fail to win a game or only win against GWS, then I'd suggest they get one - not because I want one, but because the AFL needs to set some sort of precedent of terrible performance under the new PP rule. If Melbourne have a one- or two-win season and don't get one, no side ever will get close, as such a season will be the worst since Carlton's early 2000s sides.

Regardless of *possible* improvement, the AFL have to factor in the current situation.

Your stats are flawed with no reference to the games that Melbourne were in " development" mode.

Just how many more pics should the afl give Melbourne before the penny drops?

I liken giving a priority pick this year to Melbourne in the same as giving a recovering alcoholic a Liquor shop voucher. A PP is not the panacea that is required as Melbourne need to start to develop those already on the list and build a top class development team.

Richmond have risen from the grave through hard and smart work. Instead of going all out to eradicate debt we invested equally in debt reduction and football department. We are now debt free and have an awesome training facility with the right people in place to get the best out of the group. The sky is the limit from here now

Banking on a PP to right the ship will be the end of Melbourne not the start of what is required.

 

[Ron The Bear]

bluespooner - with all due respect, try walking in the shoes of a Melbourne supporter for the past 7 years and then get back to me.

Since Rd 1, 2007:
...
Richmond, despite their struggles, haven't had a period this consistently bad.

Richmond 1987-1993 had four coaches and a higher avg losing margin, all while the AFL attempted to euthanase us. Crowds of 7K at the MCG weren't fun.

Perhaps a visit to Biffinator's Richmond Information Kiosk is in order. Much of it is regrettably true.

 

[vast]

Geelong - Get pick 13 for ablett
Hawks - Get pick 20 for Buddy (if he leaves)
Melbourne - Get Pick 13 for Scully and another priority pick now.

Something just doesn't seem fair.

 

[*PAF]

Just to go back to a statistical side of things...

Since Rd 1, 2007:

Won: 33 Games (of a possible 144; 2 draws)
Win%: 22%

...

If you hadn't deliberately tanked your percentage wouldn't be as bad so your club can shove that argument in dark places.

 

[Calcium Man]

Even when you factor in the 'good' years of 2010-11, this side is every bit as bad as some of the other terrible sides - Fitzroy and Carlton come to mind. Richmond, despite their struggles, haven't had a period this consistently bad. The Tigers have been seriously unlucky, and probably deserved a PP at one point. Nevertheless, when the media were pumping them up as the "worst since Fitzroy" the Tigers finished the year with six wins and a percentage of 73.

I think people forget how bad we were. From 2002-2010 we had a win rate of just under 30%. We also were screwed over by the AFL when we traded pick 4 to Adelaide for Kayne Johnson (which was traded for Carey) which after the trade period became pick 2 and Daniel Wells. How this was allowed to happen ill never know. We also finished last in 2007 only to not get the number 1 pick because of the stupid PP system, we were also just as screwed over in 2010 by getting pick 6 instead of pick 2 (and how west coast were worse then us that year ill never know)

 

[smasha]

Richmond 1987-1993 had four coaches and a higher avg losing margin, all while the AFL attempted to euthanase us. Crowds of 7K at the MCG weren't fun.

Perhaps a visit to Biffinator's Richmond Information Kiosk is in order. Much of it is regrettably true.

Yes,when Richmond were going bad,the AFL did handstands on their desks while passing round fairy bread.

Now the violins come out for Melbourne.

 

[LouisCK]

Geelong - Get pick 13 for ablett
Hawks - Get pick 20 for Buddy (if he leaves)
Melbourne - Get Pick 13 for Scully and another priority pick now.

Something just doesn't seem fair.

Two of your three examples are incorrect, and the other hasn't happened.

 

[Sprout]

If you hadn't deliberately tanked your percentage wouldn't be as bad so your club can shove that argument in dark places.

Oh please.

 

[*PAF]

Two of your three examples are incorrect, and the other hasn't happened.

Geelong got duded big time and Melbourne got it sweet.

Melbourne's compensation for Scully
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...tom-scully-trade/story-e6frf9jf-1226396010798#
The Dees will land picks No.4 and No.13 as part of the Scully compensation
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...tom-scully-trade/story-e6frf9jf-1226396010798#


Geelong's for Ablett
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-football-blog/afls-compensation-for-geelong/20100929-15x7e.html
Geelong Cats - Round One selection.
The selection for Gary Ablett may be activated by the Geelong Cats after its round one selection in any one of the 2012, 2013 or 2014 NAB AFL Draft Selection Meetings. The selection will be immediately placed behind the Round One selection of the Geelong Cats in that particular season. (Ie, should the Cats earn the right for selection 12, the compensation selection would be number 13, if the Cats earn the right for selection four, the compensation selection would be number five etc.).
Should the Geelong Cats wish to activate the selection in either the 2010 or 2011 NAB AFL Draft, during the two expansion-period Drafts, the selection would be placed at the end of Round One.


Geelong Cats – Mid-Round One selection.
The selection for Gary Ablett may be activated by the Geelong Cats at the middle of round one, after the round one selections for those clubs that have missed qualification for the finals in that year and before the round one selections of those clubs that have qualified for the finals in that year, in any one of the 2012, 2013 or 2014 NAB AFL Draft Selection Meetings.
Should the Geelong Cats wish to activate the selection in either the 2010 or 2011 NAB AFL Draft, during the two expansion-period Drafts, the selection would be placed at the end of Round One.

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-football-blog/afls-compensation-for-geelong/20100929-15x7e.html