Game Day Match Discussion - RD 1 vs. Port Adelaide. Sat 15/03 @ 7:35pm (MCG)

[Bianconeri]

Here we go, it’s round 1 and all hell has broken loose because the selection committee don’t know what they are doing!

They didn’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence last season.

Hope it works out for them obviously otherwise we’re in for another long season.

 

[Harry O]

For someone who has followed the Pies for so long, it is unsettling to hear how unsettled you are after one round of footy.

Can’t have any confidence in the match committee after dropping Allan.
The club is stuffed

 

[Harry O]

How that the dust has settled a little bit...

There couldn't seriously be a single person on this forum that would have Allan in their best 22/23 "everyone available" team if you write it on paper. He's by no means a lock for this year, neither are a few others around the fringes.

I'm very intrigued which one of Sully and Long start as sub, however.

Long is in the 22

 

[Bianconeri]

That’s a dangerous game v JHF and Rozee. I think Long’s numbers were cushioned by his role as the sub in a match that had lost all its zip. I’d be going with Crisp into the middle as that bigger body and Long as that first rotation mid we used Allan as last week.

When you’re talking the sub role it’s much of a muchness to me and I would still prefer we see Parker or Allan. I’ve said my peace though and it largely won’t decide the match which I think gets lost a bit so let’s see how it plays out.

Same thing happened in his first game against Essendon. He had 9 possessions as the sub which looked pretty decent but then couldn’t get over 10 possessions when starting in 22 and playing mostly as a mid until the swans game at the SCG.

He’s managed to stay in the side since his initial inclusion though so he must doing something the coaches like.

 

[Bianconeri]

How many of those were late when the game was over?


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None, they all came in the first half.

Late in the game was when he moved to the wing.

 

[BEEG]

Allen actually injured or just dropped?

 

[Bianconeri]

Long is in the 22

He’s come a long way since almost being delisted

 

[Roverjg]

Allen actually injured or just dropped?

Dropped

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jen2310]

Allen actually injured or just dropped?

Dropped.
Not named for the vfl, so the carry over emg.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

A little surprised to see Allen drop out. Maybe it’s because we intend to play Crispy in the middle full time which is where he should be I think. Is Howey a definite starter or does he still have to pass a test? Did not expect to see Long and Sullivan this early though I do like Sullly.
Anyway I feel like a massive improvement in pressure and tackling, backing our skills and better goal kicking probably more important than personnel this week.
Let’s do it Pies!!

 

[LuckyLee]

Richmond tonight showed the value of speed. That foot race last goal was a case in point. Great backflip too!

I feel we’ve gone way too far the other way in over-prioritising experience and contested ball, to the point of looking stodgy and slow.

Aside from Nick and Bobby, we have very little speed or flair. And if Nick gets injured or hard-tagged, it really dries up.

As with Murphy, the loss of Noble looks like having a bigger impact than initially expected.

We need more of McCreery around the ball. And DeGoey back in.

What else is in the cupboard? Is DeMattia quick?


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[Bianconeri]

Is it an issue? We gave gws a lot of chances. Did they go end to end and score goals from any of those chances? I can't remember but it's not common.

Not every play has to end in a score.

You’ve mentioned being better at the contest quite a bit through this thread, last week we had 136 contested possessions for only 6 goals. Do you think we should ignore the contest because it’s not generating scores?

he either went short and safe or just ran his full measure and kicked as long down the line as he could

I was a bit rude for not addressing the rest of your early post so I’ll address it here.

You’re underselling Nick a bit here. The vast majority of kick ins are gonna be long down the line, that’s the nature of the game but there were more options when the ball was in Nick’s hands.

Even most of Leon Davis’ kick ins were down the line but that doesn’t mean Harry O would have done just as good a job

Nick Daicos was more composed than Howe and Moore taking kick ins being able to asses all his option whilst running his full measure and was often able to spot a short kick slightly away from where the pack was forming to which allowed us to hold possession and either go into the centre through a kick or hand passing to a runner or allowed us to go further up line so the contest is at centre wing instead of just outside the 50. Nick was also able to hit a few dangerous ones in the middle.

Contrast this to Howe and Moore and they can only take the territory or go to the pocket. Sometimes the elect to go for a dangerous in the middle but they rarely come off.

Fly has spoken about it - kick ins aren't a big score source so they don't see it as a time to really attack when the risk is so high from the really attacking options. I think people will be disappointed, as we'll want Josh Daicos and Houston's kicking setting up scores from half back - where a heap more scoring chains begin, so you want them trying to receive from the contest after the ball has been kicked down the line.

Fly can speak about it all he wants but I’m not agree that it’s an area we shouldn’t improve just because it’s a low score sources. Kicks in don’t just happen in a vacuum they affect the whole game and optimising the territory where the first contest happens after the kick in should be looked at.

I also don’t really care if the average bigfooty poster is disappointed that Houston or Josh won’t be setting up a lot of scores at half back that’s on them.

With our current kick in set up Josh and Houston won’t be receiving much higher up the field as the ball will either be marked by Cameron and held up or knocked out of bounds so it’s seems odd to defend this choice on the basis that kick ins don’t generate scores whilst also backing that up with a scenario this scenario that’s also not going to generate a lot scores.

 

[Mollythedolly]

And I guess they’re taking a stance on our two ruck set up of the past few years now. I had hoped to see big Coxy named.

Missed a bit of training so not that surprising he gets a bit of a run at VFL level.

 

[Aussie pie]

His career so far has been in and out every couple of weeks, have learned nothing about where to play him. We don’t have a lot to choose from re tall backs, so need back him in for the short term to see if he can thrive in the new role
We’ve seen Frampton and Dean, we need to move pass them, and in a hurry

And how many games has Dean actually played? 8 and not in a row. Using your logic then 8 games is not enough to judge him on but he’s not the BF golden child like Reef who escapes any kind of criticism despite being on our list forever and showing nothing. But what do I know apparently he’s a champion we just don’t know what position to play him or actually what sport he’s actually good at.

 

[sr36]

Not every play has to end in a score.

You’ve mentioned being better at the contest quite a bit through this thread, last week we had 136 contested possessions for only 6 goals. Do you think we should ignore the contest because it’s not generating scores?

The whole game is about scoring and stopping scores.

All teams score a fair bit from clearance, so why would you ignore that source - offensively and defensively? It's also a massive source of territory - that's already gained when the other team scores a behind.

Moore gets a few too many skinny, but Howe is a lovely kick.

I don't get why you'd add a km to Houston's gps to have him run to the goal square and then run back outside 50 ten times a game in order to just take territory the same way Howe does. It also gives the opposition more time so you don't get as many initial safe pass opportunities to take a bit of extra territory. And it also means your defence and field position isn't how you want it set up if it comes straight back in.

If you're getting him to take risky corridor kicks fair enough, but the percentages aren't in that for any kicker - unless we're chasing a lead and in russian roulette mode.

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[live fast pieyoung]

I'd love to see Darcy Moore back to his best this season
Exciting just to think of it

 

[Bianconeri]

The whole game is about scoring and stopping scores.

And every action on the field contributes to these. To say kick ins don’t generate scores therefore we shouldn’t improve in this area is just silly.

All teams score a fair bit from clearance, so why would you ignore that source - offensively and defensively? It's also a massive source of territory - that's already gained when the other team scores a behind.

I didn’t say the clearances I said the contest. Not every contest happens around a stoppage.

Why would you ignore the kick in both offensively and defensively?

I don't get why you'd add a km to Houston's gps to have him run to the goal square and then run back outside 50 ten times a game in order to just take territory the same way Howe does.

Because he wouldn’t just take the territory Howe.

Secondly I don’t remember the jma being an issue when he took kick ins at Port or when Nick took them for us or when Davis took them in 2011.

Moore gets a few too many skinny, but Howe is a lovely kick.

Howe’s a lovely kick after a mark but his kick ins leave a bit to be desired.

It also gives the opposition more time so you don't get as many initial safe pass opportunities to take a bit of extra territory.

Happy for someone else to take the kick in when both Jaicos and Houston are stuck up the field. That’s just common sense.

Usually one or both will be close enough to take it. Even Jaicos on the weekend was usually in the pocket pocket close enough to take it.

If you're getting him to take risky corridor kicks fair enough, but the percentages aren't in that for any kicker - unless we're chasing a lead and in russian roulette mode.

There are more options than just going long to the contest or the a risky one in the corridor.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

That’s a dangerous game v JHF and Rozee. I think Long’s numbers were cushioned by his role as the sub in a match that had lost all its zip. I’d be going with Crisp into the middle as that bigger body and Long as that first rotation mid we used Allan as last week.

When you’re talking the sub role it’s much of a muchness to me and I would still prefer we see Parker or Allan. I’ve said my peace though and it largely won’t decide the match which I think gets lost a bit so let’s see how it plays out.

So Parker hasn't been named for the VFL practice match so I daresay he's picked up something in training.

 

[greening22]

A little surprised to see Allen drop out. Maybe it’s because we intend to play Crispy in the middle full time which is where he should be I think. Is Howey a definite starter or does he still have to pass a test? Did not expect to see Long and Sullivan this early though I do like Sullly.
Anyway I feel like a massive improvement in pressure and tackling, backing our skills and better goal kicking probably more important than personnel this week.
Let’s do it Pies!!

I am also somewhat surprised to see Allen dropped. I certainly though he was not our worst player against GWS. In fact, I thought that he played a pretty solid game. I just hope that Sullivan brings a good performance to Saturday night's game. Goodnight & good luck.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Scraping the barrel early this year even without a significant injury list.

I think that’s the most frightening part

We’re basically as injury free as we’ve been in years and we’re bringing in Sullivan by Round 1…

I just…man

 

[jmac70]

I think that’s the most frightening part

We’re basically as injury free as we’ve been in years and we’re bringing in Sullivan by Round 1…

I just…man

Injury free?
Two of our best starting mids are injured. That will test the depth of most teams.

 

[stormskye]

Injury free?
Two of our best starting mids are injured. That will test the depth of most teams.

All teams have AA mids just sitting in the vfl waiting to play jmac. Just not us

 

[sr36]

And every action on the field contributes to these. To say kick ins don’t generate scores therefore we shouldn’t improve in this area is just silly.

Houston and Daicos will probably take some.

I just don't see it as a big deal. Ultimately your kick in results in a contest somewhere up the field, either directly from the kick in or later on from a subsequent kick.

You want that contest to be as far away from goal as possible and one where we have an advantage or no disadvantage. Houston kicking in would help with that.

BUt is it by enough? Because you also want your players in position to attack or defend straight after that contest - which is Moore deep and Houston trying to receive or defend straight after that contest. There's a lot of running to get them back into the positions you want them. And it still often won't occur as quickly as you want.

I used to think why don't we use Moore as a kick out target. And if looking just at the kick in you would want Houston doing it and Moore as one of your targets, but the problem is what that does to your positioning - you're not in as good a position to attack or defend after the kick out. The gain isn't enough for something that rarely leads to scores.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Injury free?
Two of our best starting mids are injured. That will test the depth of most teams.

I said we’re as injury free as we’ve been for years

Which isn’t saying we’re actually injury free. Maybe I should have worded it better.

As in, this is the healthiest we’ve been coming into a season for many many years.

So to see such an ordinary depth player being used this early is a bit of a concern