Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[35Daicos]

It looks very likely that Lester Kelly played in the 1914 Round 8 (King's Birthday Holiday Monday) game for University vs. Fitzroy, though he is not named in the official lineup:- http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1914/061719140608.html

He's mentioned in The Age:- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/189418628/18557326 and The Argus:- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/7270886/376636 match reports on Tuesday, 9 June 1914, also The Australasian the following Saturday:- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/143324013

Kelly is meant to have played in rounds 7 & 9. I haven't looked far enough at this stage to have any idea as to whose spot he might have taken in the round 8 official lineup, assuming he actually did play.

Officially, he had a career record of 0 wins and 40 losses. According to a couple of sources I've seen, he holds the VFL/AFL record for most career games played without (ever) recording a win. (If correct) it would be somewhat ironic if another game was added to that sorry statistic!!

I've sent this one through to the 'authorities' and we'll see what they make of it. I do have a bit of doubt but given that what I imagine to be the three main newspapers of the time (available on Trove) name Kelly as being in the best players, a couple of them mention him more than once, and he was pretty much a regular player who was in his third season as well as being seemingly a well-known all-round sportsman, they should have been able to identify him correctly.


Just a minor update on this one. I've already received a reply from Steve Rodgers, the relevant part of it says:-

We're snowed under as usual, however that Lester Kelly situation definitely bears investigating.
We will be checking that in the next week or 2 - more on that later.

 

[the croucher]

Errors from 1931 team lists this time.

according to official records
Reg Thomas played for Sth Melb v St Kilda on 22 August 1931
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1931/151619310822.html

Keith Simpson played for Sth Melb v Hawthorn on 29 August 1931
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1931/101619310829.html

I believe the team lists for those matches are incorrect and the two players need to be swapped to the alternate match for which they are named.

Sporting Globe issues published on the evening of each match
Reg Thomas is listed as playing in South Melb team for match v Hawthorn 29 August 1931
Keith Simpson is not in team
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/182544058

The week before South Melb v St Kilda 22 August 1931
Keith Simpson is in playing list, and only one Thomas (L) is named
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/182543469

The local SthMelb paper The Record has a headline above the match preview announcing that Simpson would play that day v St Kilda.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/164966960

The Argus issue on day before match carries a St Kilda v Sth Melb preview on page 10 column 6 which also announces that Simpson had been named in the team.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/486576

The next week The Argus issue pre-match on the Friday on page 11 top of column 2 confirms that R Thomas had been chosen in the team, and that Simpson would miss due to him suffering from tonsilitis
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/486763

In reviewing the match v Hawthorn on page 3 The Record confirms that "the new colt" Reg Thomas played in the match - see 3 or 4 paragraphs down in column 2
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/20116936

 

[35Daicos]

Errors from 1931 team lists this time.

Sporting Globe issues published on the evening of each match
Reg Thomas is listed as playing in South Melb team for match v Hawthorn 29 August 1931
Keith Simpson is not in team
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/182544058

As well as listing him in the team, it says "R. Thomas, who was playing his first League game, scored a point from an angle."

 

[the croucher]

Errors from 1931 team lists this time.

according to official records
Reg Thomas played for Sth Melb v St Kilda on 22 August 1931
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1931/151619310822.html

Keith Simpson played for Sth Melb v Hawthorn on 29 August 1931
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1931/101619310829.html

I believe the team lists for those matches are incorrect and the two players need to be swapped to the alternate match for which they are named.

Sporting Globe issues published on the evening of each match
Reg Thomas is listed as playing in South Melb team for match v Hawthorn 29 August 1931
Keith Simpson is not in team
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/182544058

The week before South Melb v St Kilda 22 August 1931
Keith Simpson is in playing list, and only one Thomas (L) is named
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/182543469

The local SthMelb paper The Record has a headline above the match preview announcing that Simpson would play that day v St Kilda.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/164966960

The Argus issue on day before match carries a St Kilda v Sth Melb preview on page 10 column 6 which also announces that Simpson had been named in the team.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/486576

The next week The Argus issue pre-match on the Friday on page 11 top of column 2 confirms that R Thomas had been chosen in the team, and that Simpson would miss due to him suffering from tonsilitis
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/486763

In reviewing the match v Hawthorn on page 3 The Record confirms that "the new colt" Reg Thomas played in the match - see 3 or 4 paragraphs down in column 2
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/20116936

I've alerted the AFL staff to the situation and they are checking it out.
Will update this thread when I have further news from them.

 

[the croucher]

I've alerted the AFL staff to the situation and they are checking it out.
Will update this thread when I have further news from them.

Good news. Thanks to Col Hutchinson and other AFL staff for acting so promptly.
They have agreed to amend the records so that South Melb team list vs St Kilda on 22 August 1931
now includes Keith Simpson and not Reg Thomas. And the Sth Melb list vs Hawthorn on 29 Aug 1931
now includes Reg Thomas and not Simpson.

 

[rbartlett]

Folks, I've completed 1919-1930 Richmond Reserve match scores. http://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=Reserves+Match+Scores
But have a few gaps. If in your journey you can find the answer to any of these please advise. I could very well have simply missing some of them by going cross-eyed.

1926 RESERVES Season
May 1 v Sth Melb - missing best players
May 8 v Fitzroy - missing goalkickers and best players
Aug 28 v Melbourne - missing venue
Sept 11 v Footscray - missing goalkickers and best players

1928 RESERVES Season
Apr 21 v Nth Melb - missing goalkickers and best players
Apr 28 v Carl - missing goalkickers
May 5 v Coll - missing goalkickers
May 19 vs Footscray - missing goalkickers
June 9 vs Sth M - missing best players
June 23 vs Hawthorn - missing best players
June 30 vs StKilda - missing best players
July 7 v Nth Melb - missing goalkickers and best players
July 28 v Coll - missing best players
Aug 4 vs Melbourne - missing goalkickers and best players
Sept 1 v Geelong - missing best players

 

[Oliver G]

Good news. Thanks to Col Hutchinson and other AFL staff for acting so promptly.
They have agreed to amend the records so that South Melb team list vs St Kilda on 22 August 1931
now includes Keith Simpson and not Reg Thomas. And the Sth Melb list vs Hawthorn on 29 Aug 1931
now includes Reg Thomas and not Simpson.

Those two games have now been updated on Australian Football...

vs. STK...

http://australianfootball.com/game/view/2837

vs. HAW...

http://australianfootball.com/game/view/2843

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Not sure where to put this post but thought this is the thread for a couple of observations.

In the 1998 GF Record, the Richmond head shots correctly credited Greg Tivendale as wearing No. 32 but show Ben Hollands' photo who debuted the following year.

In the 1999 GF Record, it correctly credited Antoni Grover as playing a few games for the Dockers but show the headshot of a guy called Andrew Smith who never played at senior level.
I think Grover wore No. 46 before moving onto 14 after Paul Maher was delisted in 2000.

 

[the croucher]

I think the AFL (especially History dept) need to backtrack on a decision made in 2007.

Jack Jones (Essendon), Wayne Closter & Joe Sellwood (Geelong) were inducted into the VFL/AFL "200 Club" even though their career tally of senior games (club and/or representative) as player, coach, umpire had not reached 200. They were elevated because they had "suffered significant interruptions to their career due to war/active service."

In the last few weeks I have been researching the list of players to see if there were others who ought to have been added to the list due to the same considerations. There are at least 18 such players, some who played less than 140 club games, but served three or four years during World War One or World War Two. In such cases, the player's club played between 60 to 90 games while they were away, thus they clearly appear to have artificially reached the 200 mark in the same way that Jones, Closter and Sellwood are so regarded.

Personally, I don't think any of them including the three now included in the 200 Club should be listed. If your tally of games does not meet the criteria, then however unfortunate the circumstances, you should not be on the list.

 

[Derby103]

Folks, I've completed 1919-1930 Richmond Reserve match scores. http://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=Reserves+Match+Scores
But have a few gaps. If in your journey you can find the answer to any of these please advise. I could very well have simply missing some of them by going cross-eyed.

1926 RESERVES Season
May 1 v Sth Melb - missing best players
May 8 v Fitzroy - missing goalkickers and best players
Aug 28 v Melbourne - missing venue
Sept 11 v Footscray - missing goalkickers and best players

1928 RESERVES Season
Apr 21 v Nth Melb - missing goalkickers and best players
Apr 28 v Carl - missing goalkickers
May 5 v Coll - missing goalkickers
May 19 vs Footscray - missing goalkickers
June 9 vs Sth M - missing best players
June 23 vs Hawthorn - missing best players
June 30 vs StKilda - missing best players
July 7 v Nth Melb - missing goalkickers and best players
July 28 v Coll - missing best players
Aug 4 vs Melbourne - missing goalkickers and best players
Sept 1 v Geelong - missing best players

Rhett

The Melbourne - Richmond reserves match that was played on 28/8/26 was held at the MCG (The Argus, 30/8/26, p.17)

 

[rbartlett]

I think the AFL (especially History dept) need to backtrack on a decision made in 2007.

Jack Jones (Essendon), Wayne Closter & Joe Sellwood (Geelong) were inducted into the VFL/AFL "200 Club" even though their career tally of senior games (club and/or representative) as player, coach, umpire had not reached 200. They were elevated because they had "suffered significant interruptions to their career due to war/active service."
.

Croucher - I'm happy to follow up from a Richmond point of view, if any of the 18 players you've uncovered are Tiger players.

 

[rbartlett]

Rhett

The Melbourne - Richmond reserves match that was played on 28/8/26 was held at the MCG (The Argus, 30/8/26, p.17)

Many thanks for filling in that gap!

 

[the croucher]

Croucher - I'm happy to follow up from a Richmond point of view, if any of the 18 players you've uncovered are Tiger players.

Fine Rhett. Hugh James is the one Richmond player I have found. The other 17 are:
Col Austen (Hawthorn), Ken Baxter (Carlton), Vic Cumberland (Melb, St Kilda), Fred Davies (Carlton), Alec Eason (Geelong, Footscray), Fred Flanagan (Geelong), Les Foote (North Melbourne, St Kilda), Bob Green (Carlton), Ollie Grieve (Carlton), Arthur Hiskins (South Melbourne), Gordon Hocking (Collingwood), Jack Howell (Carlton), Wally Johnson (Fitzroy), Wally Lock (Melbourne), Cliff Rankin (Geelong), Alby Rodda (Melbourne), Marcus Whelan (Collingwood).

Hiskins is there because he was incorrectly elevated in 2011 - somebody at AFL House double-counted his 1920 season as player AND coach.

As mentioned earlier, I don't think any of them should be in the 200 Club because their tally of games (player-coach-umpire) does not reach the criteria set for inclusion.

However, if the AFL insist that Wayne Closter, Jack Jones and Joe Sellwood must remain, then there is no question about the others joining them.

My alternative solution for AFL History, & Publications, is for the 200 Club list to have the 21 names shown in italics at the end, with reference to the players having had "war-interrupted/delayed" careers.

 

[rbartlett]

Fine Rhett. Hugh James is the one Richmond player I have found. The other 17 are:
Col Austen (Hawthorn), Ken Baxter (Carlton), Vic Cumberland (Melb, St Kilda), Fred Davies (Carlton), Alec Eason (Geelong, Footscray), Fred Flanagan (Geelong), Les Foote (North Melbourne, St Kilda), Bob Green (Carlton), Ollie Grieve (Carlton), Arthur Hiskins (South Melbourne), Gordon Hocking (Collingwood), Jack Howell (Carlton), Wally Johnson (Fitzroy), Wally Lock (Melbourne), Cliff Rankin (Geelong), Alby Rodda (Melbourne), Marcus Whelan (Collingwood).

.

Out of interest, does the AFL only elevate living people to the 200 game club? (ie: Wayne Closter, Jack Jones and Joe Sellwood were all alive at the point of their elevation weren't they)

 

[the croucher]

Out of interest, does the AFL only elevate living people to the 200 game club? (ie: Wayne Closter, Jack Jones and Joe Sellwood were all alive at the point of their elevation weren't they)

Yes, those three were alive at the time, but Sellwood died a few weeks later, so perhaps they knew he was quite ill ?

Being alive could not be the reason any way - Fred Flanagan was still alive and lived a few years longer (d 2013 I think).

 

[Gibbsy]

In doing my research on the VFL Reserves I came across the unfortunate tale of a couple of people who were never given the medals they so rightfully deserved.

The Gardiner Medal was given to the best and fairest player in the VFL/AFL's reserves league from 1926 through to 1999. There were a couple of ties early on before a countback system was adopted for the first time in 1933 when Ern 'Tich' Utting from Hawthorn won the award on fifteen votes. Footscray's Bill Findlay and Melbourne's Hec Davidson also polled fifteen votes, but lost on countback due to the amount of three-voters (or "firsts") polled by each player. Utting had four firsts, Findlay three, Davidson one. Hence only Utting received a medal.

We all know in 1989 that the VFL decided to right its wrongs from early history and award all countback 'losers' a Brownlow Medal. In their infinite wisdom it took another three years to decide the same thing should be done for the Gardiner Medal. And so apparently in 1992, countback 'losers' from 1950, 1970 and 1971 were given medals.

It appears that 1933 has slipped through the cracks. I feel that the families of these players deserve either a medal or at least recognition in some official format. Thoughts?

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article205117929

EDIT: I also just realised that Davidson lost on a countback in 1932 as well, the year earlier. He hasn't been recognised for that either. Did this guy walk under a ladder or what?!

 

[35Daicos]

In doing my research on the VFL Reserves I came across the unfortunate tale of a couple of people who were never given the medals they so rightfully deserved.

The Gardiner Medal was given to the best and fairest player in the VFL/AFL's reserves league from 1926 through to 1999. There were a couple of ties early on before a countback system was adopted for the first time in 1933 when Ern 'Tich' Utting from Hawthorn won the award on fifteen votes. Footscray's Bill Findlay and Melbourne's Hec Davidson also polled fifteen votes, but lost on countback due to the amount of three-voters (or "firsts") polled by each player. Utting had four firsts, Findlay three, Davidson one. Hence only Utting received a medal.

We all know in 1989 that the VFL decided to right its wrongs from early history and award all countback 'losers' a Brownlow Medal. In their infinite wisdom it took another three years to decide the same thing should be done for the Gardiner Medal. And so apparently in 1992, countback 'losers' from 1950, 1970 and 1971 were given medals.

It appears that 1933 has slipped through the cracks. I feel that the families of these players deserve either a medal or at least recognition in some official format. Thoughts?

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article205117929

Melbourne's Hec Davidson had a pretty unlucky run with this award! According to Demonwiki:- Rover who failed to play a senior game in 1933 or 1934, but tied for second in the 1934 Gardiner Medal for best player in the Seconds competition. He lost 2nd place on a countback. He had alread finished second in the medal in 1931 and 1932.

Davidson remained in the Seconds in 1934 and was cleared to Camberwell in June 1935.

http://demonwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Hec Davidson
===============================================================
Supermercado
While you make no mention of his 1933 effort, on this page ^ you have "Shown as the winner of the "Gordon-Dobson Medal" in 1931 and 1932 but it's not clear what this award was for." It seems the runner-up in the Gardiner Medal received this award:-

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203831289
The medal for the best and fairest player had been won by E. ("Tich") Uttlng, and W. Flndley had received the Gordon-Dobson medal as the second best
and fairest.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11912486
By a wide margin the Gardiner Medal for the best and fairest player in the League seconds competition was awarded to M. Boyall of Collingwood at a meeting of delegates last night. Boyall obtained a record of 21 votes, the previous best being 18 votes gained by J Kinnear (Melbourne) last year. Three players tied for the Gordon Dobson Medal awarded to the second player in the voting with 10 votes each. On preferential voting the medal was awarded to N Honey (Richmond). The other two players were S. Stewart (Hawthorn) and K Truscott (Melbourne).

 

[35Daicos]

In doing my research on the VFL Reserves I came across the unfortunate tale of a couple of people who were never given the medals they so rightfully deserved.

The Gardiner Medal was given to the best and fairest player in the VFL/AFL's reserves league from 1926 through to 1999. There were a couple of ties early on before a countback system was adopted for the first time in 1933 when Ern 'Tich' Utting from Hawthorn won the award on fifteen votes. Footscray's Bill Findlay and Melbourne's Hec Davidson also polled fifteen votes, but lost on countback due to the amount of three-voters (or "firsts") polled by each player. Utting had four firsts, Findlay three, Davidson one. Hence only Utting received a medal.

We all know in 1989 that the VFL decided to right its wrongs from early history and award all countback 'losers' a Brownlow Medal. In their infinite wisdom it took another three years to decide the same thing should be done for the Gardiner Medal. And so apparently in 1992, countback 'losers' from 1950, 1970 and 1971 were given medals.

It appears that 1933 has slipped through the cracks. I feel that the families of these players deserve either a medal or at least recognition in some official format. Thoughts?

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article205117929

EDIT: I also just realised that Davidson lost on a countback in 1932 as well, the year earlier. He hasn't been recognised for that either. Did this guy walk under a ladder or what?!

I only just saw the bit you added on! Davidson clearly was very unlucky as far as this award was concerned!! I can see no reason why he and Findlay did not receive retrospectively awarded medals, unless their efforts in 1933 were somehow simply missed.

 

[Gibbsy]

Melbourne's Hec Davidson had a pretty unlucky run with this award! According to Demonwiki:- Rover who failed to play a senior game in 1933 or 1934, but tied for second in the 1934 Gardiner Medal for best player in the Seconds competition. He lost 2nd place on a countback. He had alread finished second in the medal in 1931 and 1932.


Davidson remained in the Seconds in 1934 and was cleared to Camberwell in June 1935.

http://demonwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Hec Davidson

Supermercado

While you make no mention of his 1933 effort, on this page you have "Shown as the winner of the "Gordon-Dobson Medal" in 1931 and 1932 but it's not clear what this award was for." It seems the runner-up in the Gardiner Medal received this award:-

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203831289
The medal for the best and fairest player had been won by E. ("Tich") Uttlng, and W. Flndley had received the Gordon-Dobson medal as the second best
and fairest.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11912486
By a wide margin the Gardiner Medal for the best and fairest player in the League seconds competition was awarded to M. Boyall of Collingwood at a meeting of delegates last night. Boyall obtained a record of 21 votes, the previous best being 18 votes gained by J Kinnear (Melbourne) last year. Three players tied for the Gordon Dobson Medal awarded to the second player in the voting with 10 votes each. On preferential voting the medal was awarded to N Honey (Richmond). The other two players were S. Stewart (Hawthorn) and K Truscott (Melbourne).

Yeah the Gordon-Dobson Medal was first awarded in 1931 for the runner-up; it was named after two of the Vice Presidents of the reserves at the time. When they shipped off at the end of 1938 it was renamed to the Murie Medal for 1939 (after another Vice President who would later become president) and not long after, the Murie Cup.

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

Following on from Gibbsy's posts above, in the GARDINER MEDAL from 1926 to 1981 there were 12 ties or countbacks, some are clear-cut and others have some questions around them:

1926
Alby Jacobson (SM)
Roy James (Ess)

Our joint research has revealed no mention in any contemporary sources of James winning the award, it all points to Jacobson being the sole winner:



But then this appears in a 2008 article in The Age, profiling Barry James, the son of Roy:



http://www.theage.com.au/news/horse...1212259008374.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

So James apparently did win the Gardiner Medal, but why was there no mention of that at the time?

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

1928
Jim Money (Geel)
Vince Driver (Melb)

No issues here - no countback was in use so the players tied and Gardiner presented two medals

-------------------

1930
Max Kelly (Geel)
Sel Baker (Rich)

As with 1928, no countback, players tied and Gardiner presented two medals

-------------------

1932
Dick Logan (Haw)
Hel Davidson (Melb)

Logan won because he played less games (10). Davidson finished 2nd because he played in all but four matches (Gippsland Times 12-9-1932, p.6)

- Retrospective medal not awarded in 1992 to Davidson - should have been

-------------------

1933
'Tich' Utting (Haw)
Bill Findlay (Foot)
Hel Davidson (Melb)

Utting won on countback (Utting received four 1sts, Findlay received three, Davidson received one)

- Retrospective medal not awarded in 1992 to Findlay - should have been
- Retrospective medal not awarded in 1992 to Davidson - should have been

-------------------

1950
Doug Davies (Geel)
Jack O'Halloran (Ess)

Davies won on countback (three 1sts to one)

- Retrospective medal was awarded to O'Halloran in 1992.

1951
Neil Doolan (NM) was the sole winner

The AFL website incorrectly has O'Halloran sharing the award in 1951 instead of 1950:



NOTE - the annual AFL Stats book correctly lists O'Halloran and Davies sharing the award in 1950 with Doolan the sole winner in 1951

------------------

1958
John Fisher (Haw)
Chris Pavlou (Carl)

Fisher won on countback (three 1sts to two)

- Retrospective medal not awarded in 1992 to Pavlou - should have been

------------------

1970
Mike Redenbach (NM)
Paul Callery (Melb)

Redenbach won on a countback (five 1sts to four)

- Retrospective medal was awarded to Callery in 1992.

------------------

1971
Bruce Brown (Melb) was first on 12 votes (Bob Heard (Coll) was 2nd on 11 votes)

1977
Darryl Schimmelbusch (NM)
Bob Heard (Rich)

Heard lost on a countback (both had five 1st votes but Schimma won due to four 2nd votes to Heard's three)

The AFL website/annual stats book incorrectly says retrospective medals were awarded for 1950, 1970 and 1971

The AFL website and annual stats book incorrectly have Brown and Heard tied in 1971 with Schimma the sole winner in 1977



--------------------

1981
Darryl Vernon (Rich)
Malcolm Reed (Geel)

Vernon won on a countback (five 1sts to four)

A retrospective medal was awarded to Reed a week after when the VFL decided to bring the Gardiner Medal into line with the now countback-free Brownlow Medal.

The AFL website makes no mention of this, simply showing the 1981 medallists as joint winners

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

So, to sum up that's:

- four retrospective Gardiner Medals not awarded that should have been
- questions marks over Roy James winning the 1926 award
- official records for 1950/51 and 1971/77 jumbled
- important info for 1981 not noted in official records

 

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

MORRISH MEDAL
There were five countbacks/ties between 1947 and 1981:

1961
Terry Johnston (Melb)
Jim McGowan (SM)

Johnston won on a countback

- Retrospective medal was awarded to McGowan in 1992.

--------------------

1972
Ian Kilmartin (NM)
Vin Catoggio (Carl)

Could not be split on countback (both received five 1sts, two 2nds, two 3rds) - tied for the medal

--------------------

1974
Jack Di Natale (Foot)
Russell Bruerton (SM)
Phillip Friedman (Melb)

Di Natale and Bruerton tied for the medal (both received six 1sts, two 2nds) and Friedman lost on countback (six 1sts, one 2nd, two 3rds)

- Restrospective medal was awarded to Friedman in 1992

--------------------

1976
Craig Jamieson (Rich)
Jack Di Natale (Foot)

Jamieson won on a countback

- Retrospective medal was awarded to Di Natale in 1992

--------------------

1978
Andrew McPhie (Fitz)
Stephen Simpson (NM)
Darryl Vernon (Rich)

All three could not be split on countback (each received three 1sts, four 2nds, two 3rds) and were announced as joint winners

It was then realised that Vernon had been suspended during the season, making him ineligible for the award.

Vernon's name does not appear in official records and there's no mention of him missing out due to suspension.

-------------------

To sum up, all retrospective Morrish Medals were correctly presented and the AFL website/annual media guide has the correct info although:

- there is no explanation re: which one of the three 1976 winners originally lost on countback then received the retrospective medal.
- Vernon's name has been completely removed from the records for 1978 when he should be acknowledged as missing out on the award due to suspension - as happens in Brownlow Medal records for Corey McKernan (1996) and Chris Grant (1997).

 

[35Daicos]

So, to sum up that's:

- four retrospective Gardiner Medals not awarded that should have been
- questions marks over Roy James winning the 1926 award
- official records for 1950/51 and 1971/77 jumbled
- important info for 1981 not noted in official records

Plenty of mysteries there! The Roy James story is really puzzling. James (who played a few senior games for Melbourne) obviously did receive a medal, but when, and if it wasn't given to him at the same time Jacobsen of South Melbourne received his, why the delay, and why no mention of any of this back then?

Bonus trivia bit!:- James' grand-daughter is Anita Frawley (nee James), who is married to Danny Frawley.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Plenty of mysteries there! The Roy James story is really puzzling. James (who played a few senior games for Melbourne) obviously did receive a medal, but when, and if it wasn't given to him at the same time Jacobsen of South Melbourne received his, why the delay, and why no mention of any of this back then?

Bonus trivia bit!:- James' grand-daughter is Anita Frawley (nee James), who is married to Danny Frawley.

Speaking of Spud, how is he related to Des Tuddenham?

Is Spud's mum Des' sister?

And, with James Frawley being Spud's nephew, wonder if that makes him Des' grandson.