List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[Jatz]

I could see Williams' contract hurting. Who else though?

Williams was the main one I was thinking of.

McGovern's coming up helps as well.

 

[bmaurizio]

Williams was the main one I was thinking of.

McGovern's coming up helps as well.

Martin & McGovern’s contracts would not tickle Either.
Combined with Williams , these have restricted us enormously, all three players lack intensity and have impacted poorly , can’t stay on the park too, poor decisions, real blunders.

 

[gbatman]

I doubt Martin, McGovern and William's contracts affect us at all. All would have been very heavily front loaded, they would not be getting paid a great deal at present. There is no evidence Carlton are under any salary cap pressure at all.

 

[macky99]

Martin & McGovern’s contracts would not tickle Either.
Combined with Williams , these have restricted us enormously, all three players lack intensity and have impacted poorly , can’t stay on the park too, poor decisions, real blunders.

I believe the Williams one is the only one that may still be a issue, would suspect Mcgovern/Martin had front loaded contracts so the pain now would be on a very minor scale.
It is more to do with injury than lacking intensity, probably last chance in 23 for Martin & McGovern you would suspect to perform & stay injury free.

 

[CJMB]

Martin & McGovern’s contracts would not tickle Either.
Combined with Williams , these have restricted us enormously, all three players lack intensity and have impacted poorly , can’t stay on the park too, poor decisions, real blunders.

Yeah, it’s really sucked that we weren’t able to extend Cripps, Charlie (who you were adamant was cooked and we should delist or trade for a packet of chips), Walsh, Harry, Weitering or pick up any players like Saad, Cerra, Hewett, Young, Pitto, Acres…

Gov’s on the last year of his deal and Martin is on SFA now.

The sky isn’t falling. We’re not losing players to better deals elsewhere or struggled to trade in talent.

 

[katmanblue]

Martin & McGovern’s contracts would not tickle Either.
Combined with Williams , these have restricted us enormously, all three players lack intensity and have impacted poorly , can’t stay on the park too, poor decisions, real blunders.

Who have we targeted but couldn't fit-in in the last couple of years?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Saw it earlier:-

IF ...​

Charlie and Harry and Patty andSam and Jacob and the Adams are all on big cash and long deals ...

THEN ...​

I hope there's enough folding and tenure left for Tom De Koning when he's out of contract at the end of next season. Cannot afford to lose him. Might even be the key to the flag dream.

Barrett is a knob. Like he has a better idea of how the salary dollars are at any given club now, let alone in 12 months time. Pretty sure the new TV rights deal will see more $ made available to all players, AFLPA will make sure of that.

 

[Garters]

How can he be the the key to the flag dream? According to Kane & Lloydy we're not even going to make the finals.

The incessant bullsh*t of main stream football commentary. It has nothing do with insight re absolute outcomes, just shameless self promotion. Now it's Friday arvo I've a sore back and I need to go and sort out a baggy of anti-inflamatories. Did I also mention my amazing footballing attributes in between my ill informed prognostications. (Tip I was impressive)

 

[James_Blues]

Have any clubs expressed interest in Tom Phillips

21

Tom Phillips

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.4

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.5

4star

CL

1.6

4star

D

15.1

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

CL

0.5

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

7.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

? We could do worse than to pick him up as a delisted free agent as a back up wing position. I was a bit surprised when Collingwood traded him out and even more surprised that Hawthorn have delisted him.

 

[Garters]

I am sure there are loads of players who suffer from anxiety. Most people do. Most high achievers experience anxiety and at high levels. Anxiety is not the issue or an illness. It's normal. The issue is how people handle it, tolerate it and how they manage it. Some people can work through and function with heavy anxiety and some can't. While it's not ideal, it's hardly a reason to avoid recruiting someone. Stocker's issue was physical fitness which there were red flags about at the time of his recruiting, that was a reason to not recruit him. That and our list quality has grown significantly and many have gone past him.

Stocker if he really wants it could be someone who comes good later but he needs a kick up the arse regarding his fitness which is often the case when players get moved on. As for anxiety, maturity will resolve this issue, he's a 22 year old so hardly expect him to have this.

Really well articulated.
Have sort much help along the way around imposter syndrome, cronic anxiety, being taught I belong at the level. My old psyc had always said when he sees blind confidence it sets off serious alarm bells. It is a combination of maturing, having the self awareness to ask for help, support networks, a number of things. Stocker needs to find that, the anxiety is a by product of the inability / lack of mental tools to learn to process performance and other's perception effectively. It is tough to develop strategies to harness the upside of what is initially a continual fear of being found out / not going to make it. Despite all that, anxiety is a huge driver of out performance at the right levels/management. Maturity goes along way, the right support/ wanting to solve for it prob fast tracks it.
Stockers inability to execute on what was expected of him is a broader issue yet not completely seperate. His delisting cannot be just be parked at the fact he struggles with chronic anxiety. It's a tricky one, personally if you want to make it work and you have the resources of a high performance environment there is an element of personal accountability re wanting to succeed. If he realised professional footy is just not his thing and it does not drive the want to change, then that's cool as well. Hard to know his drivers hence ongoing conjecture re delisting.

 

[Jeremias]

Martin & McGovern’s contracts would not tickle Either.
Combined with Williams , these have restricted us enormously,.

Much like your claim that Austin has been conservative as list manager, there’s not a single thing that points to this being remotely accurate.

Have absolutely no idea how you’ve come to this conclusion.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Saw it earlier:-

IF ...​

Charlie and Harry and Patty and Sam and Jacob and the Adams are all on big cash and long deals ...

THEN ...​

I hope there's enough folding and tenure left for Tom De Koning when he's out of contract at the end of next season. Cannot afford to lose him. Might even be the key to the flag dream.

I can’t believe he is still doing that sliding doors segment as I stopped reading it years ago because most of the hyootheticals he raised didn’t even constitute a “sliding doors” moments…

 

[bmaurizio]

Much like your claim that Austin has been conservative as list manager, there’s not a single thing that points to this being remotely accurate.

Have absolutely no idea how you’ve come to this conclusion.

perhaps because we're enjoying trade period from the stands

 

[Jeremias]

perhaps because we're enjoying trade period from the stands

Enjoy it all you like, but throwing statements around with little to substantiate them is a bit much.

How and when have we been restricted by the contracts of Williams and McGovern? Who have we missed out on because of them?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

perhaps because we're enjoying trade period from the stands

I am very happy/content with our trade period myself

Sometimes less is more when it comes to bringing it players from other clubs, Acres fills an need for us, and came cheaply.

If we can get a couple of extra picks for Setterfield or Dow, great, but pretty happy, we are going to have more than 3 live picks at a National Draft for the first time in a while.

We are getting better at picking our 2nd and 3rd round selections under Austin and Agresta (something we didn't do very well under SOS's watch)

Many clubs are being a pain in the ass to trade with this year anyway, look how unreasonable West Coast are with Junior Rioli (for example)

Never been more comfortable with the state of our list and list management in well over 20 years.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Austin looks promising, it is too early to tell if Durdin, Carrol and Motlop are successful picks

 

[plentyblckie]

The way I read our list Management strategy is thus

1. Sign all ur guns/potential guns to good length deals..outside of TDK..Tick
Core group to go forward with number of yrs together
Few of these contracts don't have the cause that as cap goes up so does salary..McKay contract is like this
2. Cheery pick guys from other clubs based on needs and value..both contract and Trade wise..hence Acres and Hewitt.. these will be norm going forward for while..bit like what swans did
Help keep cap under control
3. Go back to draft..again helps keep cap in balance..buys u time to have to pay more good players alot of cash...time any of them hit that point if they are good enough other contracts we have start to near expiry
We don't need 44 guys all contending for spots..be nice never gunna happen..even if we did u lose plenty cause they dont play..drafting keeps the list in balance
We have enough talent and depth..so we can take the punt on drafting..if one fails no big disaster but u just mite snag a few more good players who can b ready to contribute in a couple of yrs time as other move on or begin to stagnate/decline..in the meantime we can afford them to learn their craft properly under less scrutiny in the 2nds at the required pace instead of having to push them up too quick and f their development...ala Dow damo LOB to mention a few

credit to geelong they got their flag by topping up but just like hawks,b4 them when all those Stars go its a quick fall..selwood is the begining of this..I think if ur losing few good players every couple of yrs but they are being replaces by good kids at the bottom end who r ready its a more sustainable way to actually really contending than just making up the numbers in finals
Even geelong this trade period r showing us u just carnt keep going and trading for good established players..the 3 they r bringing in have potential yes but have proven little so far

We unlike just about every other club are in a Position to do this..got enough A grades.. plenty of depth below this..list is really good age..

 

[COBALT BLUE]

Martin & McGovern’s contracts would not tickle Either.
Combined with Williams , these have restricted us enormously, all three players lack intensity and have impacted poorly , can’t stay on the park too, poor decisions, real blunders.

Gov...had a looooong injury histoty of mainly that hammy he had surgery on.....
Gov looks A grade when he can work and obviously he had been pushing that hammy a lot in the past to be what he should be and that is probably an elite mark and leap,and moves well as well[so with luck can still get some value here]

Martin looks disappointing with the repeat calf issues....again Agrade,when going...........Club need calf rehab specialist and or medical etc...........

Williams again first had conditioning issues ,then worked got some fitness then got injured perhaps with load increase issues....again we need lower leg rehap specialists working around these guys

Gov is worth the money when going......he lifts us and in big occassions[noted]
Williams also is very strong and very attractive to Carlton at the time....has to have a descent 2023 to begin his turnaround of value for money ....will be a long road !!

Martin was on big money his first year which was covid....hasnt his rate dropped back now ???
Martin is a great assett who could even play on a wing ....he needs to sort those calf issues out,which can be long term issues[calves are slow to rehab]....dont know his details tho...another A grader tho

 

[COBALT BLUE]

I am very happy/content with our trade period myself

Sometimes less is more when it comes to bringing it players from other clubs, Acres fills an need for us, and came cheaply.

If we can get a couple of extra picks for Setterfield or Dow, great, but pretty happy, we are going to have more than 3 live picks at a National Draft for the first time in a while.

We are getting better at picking our 2nd and 3rd round selections under Austin and Agresta (something we didn't do very well under SOS's watch)

Many clubs are being a pain in the ass to trade with this year anyway, look how unreasonable West Coast are with Junior Rioli (for example)

Never been more comfortable with the state of our list and list management in well over 20 years.

they think we can get pick 42 for Setterfield from Essendon...........hope it dont bite us down the track
Setterfield was tracking well the year before.....probably a very good B grade player at 24 he is still a diamond in the ruff
he is possibly easily worth a second rounder[around a pick 32-39]........this one looking a bit of a fail for the club but the got Akers for not much who was in much better form and a bit older than Setters........ ?

DOW is another diamond in the ruff.....who has not responded to the get on with it notification....i think he is a very slow developer and better off keeping him especially we get nothing for him as a trade............. very difficult to decipher!!!
Dow can work well in the VFL....just seems to still be a bit lost in the AFL...
Dow physically A grade.......psychological hurdles for him requiring work i think are his issue

 

[TENACIOUS]

Much like your claim that Austin has been conservative as list manager, there’s not a single thing that points to this being remotely accurate.

Have absolutely no idea how you’ve come to this conclusion.

Austin and co have been conservative with their list management over their first 2 years...
Brought in and FA and used our low picks on known quantities over the higher risk draft... Which is conservative...

Seems the conservativeness is more by strategy than by choice though...

Our strategy is to hit the draft this year...
I'm excited to see if Austin and co are bold with trades for better picks in the last week of trade week...
Also if we are bold to take some risk and high reward players like Humphrey...

IMO Austin has been great for us, re-signed all our stars and
Fogarty is the only speculative pickup so far but is apparently still on the list...

 

[Jeremias]

Austin and co have been conservative with their list management over their first 2 years...
Brought in and FA and used our low picks on known quantities over the higher risk draft... Which is conservative...

Austin and co have traded our first pick in consecutive seasons and have handed out big contracts via free agency.

That's not being conservative.

A conservative list manager sits on his hands and either waits for something to come his way, or does absolutely nothing at all.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Austin and co have traded our first pick in consecutive seasons and have handed out big contracts via free agency.

That's not being conservative.

A conservative list manager sits on his hands and either waits for something to come his way, or does absolutely nothing at all.

A conservative list manager, takes the path of least risk... Which we have done...

None of those players were speculative risky choices, they all warranted high draft pick and $$$ payments...
They were all known quantities, that we knew what we were getting over taking a speculative risky draft choice...

As said before "Seems the conservativeness is more by strategy than by choice though.."

We are taking risk this year, with hitting the draft...
"I'm excited to see if Austin and co are bold with trades for better picks in the last week of trade week...
Also if we are bold to take some risk and high reward players like Humphrey..."

 

[Manhattanite]

Austin looks promising, it is too early to tell if Durdin, Carrol and Motlop are successful picks

It’s very hard to separate getting the pick right vs doing development right

In a good system like say Geelong and Sydney you can err towards saying maybe those that don’t make it is more about just getting the pick wrong

I think Durdin and Motlop have shown plenty from the beginning to suggest we got the picks right - and if they do make it will now be more dependent on getting their development right.

Carroll it’s hard to say for now. One thing over the last decade is we haven’t developed mids great - the only ones to become good actually became superstars in Cripps and Walsh and that’s mostly them. But we do key position pretty well as we have two Coleman’s and Weitering and the Jones turnaround etc. However most mids we disappoint - and many clubs would have taken Dow at 3-5 and SPS at 6-10 and LOB at 10-15 etc so it’s not just the picks - a lot could be the development and in those cases playing them too early etc.

But all things considered if you look at these three draftees and add the impact of Young, Cerra and Hewett in their first season you have to say Austin is doing great.




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[4flagsin5yrs]

It’s very hard to separate getting the pick right vs doing development right

In a good system like say Geelong and Sydney you can err towards saying maybe those that don’t make it is more about just getting the pick wrong

I think Durdin and Motlop have shown plenty from the beginning to suggest we got the picks right - and if they do make it will now be more dependent on getting their development right.

Carroll it’s hard to say for now. One thing over the last decade is we haven’t developed mids great - the only ones to become good actually became superstars in Cripps and Walsh and that’s mostly them. But we do key position pretty well as we have two Coleman’s and Weitering and the Jones turnaround etc. However most mids we disappoint - and many clubs would have taken Dow at 3-5 and SPS at 6-10 and LOB at 10-15 etc so it’s not just the picks - a lot could be the development and in those cases playing them too early etc.

But all things considered if you look at these three draftees and add the impact of Young, Cerra and Hewett in their first season you have to say Austin is doing great.




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Geelong get a huge free kick each year (huge home ground advantage, most away games in Melbourne) and there's constant noise about generous land deals....

Swans too have been very well looked after over their journey.

 

[Blues_1864]

Dow's contract must be fattish - nothing else makes sense. When was the last time a #3 pick garnered zero interest after a few years in the system? It's not like there haven't been other top-5 misses - without even looking at the lists, I can think of Schache, Plowman, O'Rourke, Trengove, even Gumbleton, Tambling if you go back far enough. But they all found second homes via trade... Dow will be in rarefied air if he doesn't. I suspect we might learn the answer in 12 months' time...