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Kyabram DFL discussion 2023

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GrassKat said:
Some really good points there Smooth.

Hopefully AFLGM and the KDL see how desperate clubs are to have the junior pathway sorted out.

What we had in 2023 was tough to navigate with only 8 clubs in the Under 18s and 7 clubs in the Under 14s. How can we avoid these junior competitions falling over completely? Is there any scope to have Under 11s in the KDL also? In 2024, there will be 5 KDL clubs fielding Under 10s teams in the GMJL. There is certainly appetite for the complete pathway at community level.

To have a number of clubs within the KDL who are Seniors and Reserves only, is a real concern. There were rounds in 2023, where only one game of Reserves footy was played for the whole day! Hosting minimal crowds impact the running costs and engaging power of clubs.

In my opinion: Avenel, Nagambie and Tally could each start a 4ths & 5ths team in 2024, as they have representation in the GMJL in some form, that would give 10 clubs in the 4ths. Broadford would also add another.

I worry for 3 of the clubs directly around Kyabram, as the current St Augs/Ky Bombers junior arrangement appears to be building up Kyabram and Lancaster at the detriment of the others. If I were leading Girgarre, Stanhope or Merrigum; I would be concerned about where future players are coming from and be asking questions about how we can get juniors within our ranks.

Perhaps this whole exercise won’t be for nothing as it has shown that a number of clubs (beyond the 4 that committed) are seriously looking at their options for the future.

I do wonder where Tocumwal, Katandra and Tungamah will land now?

Could the AFLGM create a 18 team competition this month by directing Tocumwal, Tungamah, Katandra and Broadford into the KDL?

Two pools of 9, one pool that has juniors and one that doesn’t?

Or will the status quo remain?

Watch this space!
Click to expand...

The big take out of all this is all the clubs looking at new league want better junior development, affiliation and less travel.
AFLGM have shown they don’t give a shit about clubs wanting affiliation, don’t give a shit about community football clubs trying to support their communities.
They do give a shit about protecting their little hub project the KDL and centralising juniors to Shep


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the steam train said:
The big take out of all this is all the clubs looking at new league want better junior development, affiliation and less travel.
AFLGM have shown they don’t give a s**t about clubs wanting affiliation, don’t give a s**t about community football clubs trying to support their communities.
They do give a s**t about protecting their little hub project the KDL and centralising juniors to Shep


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Click to expand...
Sorry but I don’t agree and I’m sure my views with rattle the chain of a few.

Junior development or junior structure for KDL clubs . Keeping in mind that KDL has had 2 junior age groups the past season and 2 of the 4 clubs who showed interest didn’t field all sides . Whilst IIRC Undera had to forfeit a u17 final . Whilst Toc forfieted in u17’s in 2021.

‘ Affiliation ‘ is a trending term being used as an excuse for throwing the toys out of the cot .
It didn’t exist pre 2018 and the overwhelming advice from clubs who have experienced it , is that it has minimal real affect on the running of clubs . The sold and promoted ‘ perception ‘ is no doubt the biggest influence .

Reduced travel is a valid point for the 2 picola league clubs but it’s worth noting that for the majority of the past 30 + years they’ve had the same travel . It is also irrelevant for the KDL clubs.

If the KDL didn’t have or hadn’t made available 2 junior grades and all clubs involved had mass junior players , yes junior structure would be relevant .

Respecting this is the KDL thread , KDL clubs need to get behind the junior structure , make it work and call out the AFL if they truly think the shepp juniors , or whatever it’s now called , is detrimental to the league and force change .
 

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"The Roar Is Back" said:
Sorry but I don’t agree and I’m sure my views with rattle the chain of a few.

Junior development or junior structure for KDL clubs . Keeping in mind that KDL has had 2 junior age groups the past season and 2 of the 4 clubs who showed interest didn’t field all sides . Whilst IIRC Undera had to forfeit a u17 final . Whilst Toc forfieted in u17’s in 2021.

‘ Affiliation ‘ is a trending term being used as an excuse for throwing the toys out of the cot .
It didn’t exist pre 2018 and the overwhelming advice from clubs who have experienced it , is that it has minimal real affect on the running of clubs . The sold and promoted ‘ perception ‘ is no doubt the biggest influence .

Reduced travel is a valid point for the 2 picola league clubs but it’s worth noting that for the majority of the past 30 + years they’ve had the same travel . It is also irrelevant for the KDL clubs.

If the KDL didn’t have or hadn’t made available 2 junior grades and all clubs involved had mass junior players , yes junior structure would be relevant .

Respecting this is the KDL thread , KDL clubs need to get behind the junior structure , make it work and call out the AFL if they truly think the shepp juniors , or whatever it’s now called , is detrimental to the league and force change .
Click to expand...

You keep going to past seasons to support your arguments, but I think the clubs involved were looking to the FUTURE of there junior development, Murch and. Undera have a large number of juniors Dookie and Shep east have strong u14 numbers, Dookie and Murch just played off in u14 grand final.
Those clubs see a future in their juniors , but not in the current set up in the KDL?
You say no affiliation pre 2018, what was the VCFL?
The biggest issue with affiliation is a higher governing body. If the unaffiliated Picola league make a decision on a club they don’t agree with who can they appeal to ? No one
On the other hand if a club wants to leave but the Picola league don’t want them to , who can they turn to to stop them? No one the club can just walk. I’m sure you will say they can’t just leave but I reckon the AFL would prove otherwise.
As far as travel , those 2 Picola clubs would probably say the experience of the South east split gave them a taste of less travel they want back


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the steam train said:
You keep going to past seasons to support your arguments, but I think the clubs involved were looking to the FUTURE of there junior development, Murch and. Undera have a large number of juniors Dookie and Shep east have strong u14 numbers, Dookie and Murch just played off in u14 grand final.
Those clubs see a future in their juniors , but not in the current set up in the KDL?
You say no affiliation pre 2018, what was the VCFL?
The biggest issue with affiliation is a higher governing body. If the unaffiliated Picola league make a decision on a club they don’t agree with who can they appeal to ? No one
On the other hand if a club wants to leave but the Picola league don’t want them to , who can they turn to to stop them? No one the club can just walk. I’m sure you will say they can’t just leave but I reckon the AFL would prove otherwise.
As far as travel , those 2 Picola clubs would probably say the experience of the South east split gave them a taste of less travel they want back


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Click to expand...
I'll be interested to see where these clubs are with their juniors in 5 years time. Juniors tend to move in cycles, and a lot of clubs seem to have short memories. As recently as 2014, Murchison were the only club in the league without juniors.

I'd hate to be a Longwood or VT who have put in the work to get some juniors up and running and will be left to fend for themselves. But hey, it's all about the juniors... just not other clubs' juniors.
 
TallyHawk said:
So now the dust is settled and proposed league didn’t get the numbers is there any chance AFLGM can address the issues of juniors in KDL.
Click to expand...

I heard that it was as much about AFLV and AFLGM putting the kybosh on the MDL as it was about numbers. A couple of clubs had already voted to be part of the MDL then suddenly once this got out, the league was told to stop the process.
 
Anyone who thinks the afl care about minor leagues junior set ups, had rocks in their heads. The afl couldn't give a rats tossbag if there's no kdfl in 5 years, in fact they'd embrace it, they only want junior pathways systems for elite talent to funnel unto the afl, no community footy means more people watch and attend the afl. You only have to see their ad about community footy to see they have zero idea about it
 
Trent the flight Steward said:
Anyone who thinks the afl care about minor leagues junior set ups, had rocks in their heads. The afl couldn't give a rats tossbag if there's no kdfl in 5 years, in fact they'd embrace it, they only want junior pathways systems for elite talent to funnel unto the afl, no community footy means more people watch and attend the afl. You only have to see their ad about community footy to see they have zero idea about it
Click to expand...
These elite kids need others kids to play against don't they!?
 
the steam train said:
You keep going to past seasons to support your arguments, but I think the clubs involved were looking to the FUTURE of there junior development, Murch and. Undera have a large number of juniors Dookie and Shep east have strong u14 numbers, Dookie and Murch just played off in u14 grand final.
Those clubs see a future in their juniors , but not in the current set up in the KDL?
You say no affiliation pre 2018, what was the VCFL?
The biggest issue with affiliation is a higher governing body. If the unaffiliated Picola league make a decision on a club they don’t agree with who can they appeal to ? No one
On the other hand if a club wants to leave but the Picola league don’t want them to , who can they turn to to stop them? No one the club can just walk. I’m sure you will say they can’t just leave but I reckon the AFL would prove otherwise.
As far as travel , those 2 Picola clubs would probably say the experience of the South east split gave them a taste of less travel they want back


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Click to expand...
A incorporated bodies rules form as a legal binding agreement between members and the incorporated body .
The AFL have absolutely no say in it .
When affiliated they can threaten to de-affiliate .
Many country footy / netball leagues now have as many or more netball members than football .
The VCFL agreement was a one page agreement that was supppied when a body agreed to join and never re-visited and worked under one basic principle .
Act in the best interests of football at all times .
KDL needs to lobby other leagues ( which won’t be hard ) and ensure AFLGM implement the junior footy review which the region asked for .
Outside of the AFL , At the moment it appears one body in the region ( being the junior footy league ) is on its own on wanting to see junior footy leagues grow at the demise of junior footy , aligned to senior footy.
 
"The Roar Is Back" said:
A incorporated bodies rules form as a legal binding agreement between members and the incorporated body .
The AFL have absolutely no say in it .
When affiliated they can threaten to de-affiliate .
Many country footy / netball leagues now have as many or more netball members than football .
The VCFL agreement was a one page agreement that was supppied when a body agreed to join and never re-visited and worked under one basic principle .
Act in the best interests of football at all times .
KDL needs to lobby other leagues ( which won’t be hard ) and ensure AFLGM implement the junior footy review which the region asked for .
Outside of the AFL , At the moment it appears one body in the region ( being the junior footy league ) is on its own on wanting to see junior footy leagues grow at the demise of, aligned to senior footy.
Click to expand...
ed

I stand by my opinion if a club from an unaffiliated league wanted to leave to go to an affiliated league the unaffiliated league would not be able to stop them if the AFL wanted it to happen, quote whatever legal jargon you want , it wouldn’t matter.

I reckon we agree though the AFL couldn’t give a rats about community football and juniors playing community footy , they want them in town controlling pathways . I give the PDFNL credit for their juniors, best in the region and the 5ths is brilliant

Surely AFL is getting the message now we all care deeply about community footy , and the state of KDL juniors reflects the AFL attitude . They are an embarrassment to our great game.


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the steam train said:
ed

I stand by my opinion if a club from an unaffiliated league wanted to leave to go to an affiliated league the unaffiliated league would not be able to stop them if the AFL wanted it to happen, quote whatever legal jargon you want , it wouldn’t matter.

I reckon we agree though the AFL couldn’t give a rats about community football and juniors playing community footy , they want them in town controlling pathways . I give the PDFNL credit for their juniors, best in the region and the 5ths is brilliant

Surely AFL is getting the message now we all care deeply about community footy , and the state of KDL juniors reflects the AFL attitude . They are an embarrassment to our great game.


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Click to expand...
And getting rid of the 5ths , allegedly at the request of others leagues, was a pre-requisite of the 2018 affiliation agreement which the picola league refused to accept .
5ths was started 2-3 years after it was initially discussed and on first introduction had plenty of opposition from clubs and IIRC only 4 committing at the start.
 
MortlockWatcher said:
Why would you want to comply with the AFL if they are trying to force a league to remove a junior grade like that? Especially as it is an effort to promote growth and strength of football clubs.

You have to shake your head at some of the sh1t that AFLV and its underlings come up with.
Click to expand...
Fear of retribution
 
MortlockWatcher said:
I heard that it was as much about AFLV and AFLGM putting the kybosh on the MDL as it was about numbers. A couple of clubs had already voted to be part of the MDL then suddenly once this got out, the league was told to stop the process.
Click to expand...

It fell one short of required teams.


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Blackout said:
I'll be interested to see where these clubs are with their juniors in 5 years time. Juniors tend to move in cycles, and a lot of clubs seem to have short memories. As recently as 2014, Murchison were the only club in the league without juniors.

I'd hate to be a Longwood or VT who have put in the work to get some juniors up and running and will be left to fend for themselves. But hey, it's all about the juniors... just not other clubs' juniors.
Click to expand...

Certainly 2014 was the impetus for change at the Hoppers, to play off in 3rds grand finals in 2010/11, and then be in recess in 2014 highlighted where the work needed to be done.

The ‘merger’ being a huge part of that junior program, where we now have approximately 230 primary school student with a direct connection to the club via town name at least. The club understands that it is competing against towns with primary schools in the single digits.

The other thing that occurred in Murchison and Toolamba was that the football program became so popular that both towns soccer programs are now in recess.

Who is to say that the olive branch wasn’t extended to Longwood or Violet Town?

A decision has to be made around Tabilk, so that Nagambie and Avenel can each have representation in KD 4ths.

Support the Roadrunners to field a Congupna and Tally team. Some great work has occurred there recently and with the northern growth corridor in Shepparton is a real chance of bearing fruit.

Tatura is an opportunity for Merrigum. A chance to work in there.

Undera has done some hard work in engaging with Mooroopna Park, Mooroopna North, Ardmona and Undera schools.

Stop saying that the kids don’t want to play when 15 of them don’t just walk in for the first training session. If you want the game to prosper we must do the work now.

This certainly is about all clubs juniors.

My mates at Longwood can get kids out there to play, so should the rest of us!

So as to where we will be in 5 years time, it will depend on which clubs want to do the work.
 
GrassKat said:
Certainly 2014 was the impetus for change at the Hoppers, to play off in 3rds grand finals in 2010/11, and then be in recess in 2014 highlighted where the work needed to be done.

The ‘merger’ being a huge part of that junior program, where we now have approximately 230 primary school student with a direct connection to the club via town name at least. The club understands that it is competing against towns with primary schools in the single digits.

The other thing that occurred in Murchison and Toolamba was that the football program became so popular that both towns soccer programs are now in recess.

Who is to say that the olive branch wasn’t extended to Longwood or Violet Town?

A decision has to be made around Tabilk, so that Nagambie and Avenel can each have representation in KD 4ths.

Support the Roadrunners to field a Congupna and Tally team. Some great work has occurred there recently and with the northern growth corridor in Shepparton is a real chance of bearing fruit.

Tatura is an opportunity for Merrigum. A chance to work in there.

Undera has done some hard work in engaging with Mooroopna Park, Mooroopna North, Ardmona and Undera schools.

Stop saying that the kids don’t want to play when 15 of them don’t just walk in for the first training session. If you want the game to prosper we must do the work now.

This certainly is about all clubs juniors.

My mates at Longwood can get kids out there to play, so should the rest of us!

So as to where we will be in 5 years time, it will depend on which clubs want to do the work.
Click to expand...
As-salaam ‘alykum
 
The KDL would gain more junior sides in their fourths comp if it went to U/15s. Guarantee Stanhope and a Lancaster or Girgarre would be able to field teams in this age group if it was available.
Kyabram and Echuca couldn’t care less about the kids that aren’t in their single U/16 sides. Kyabram and Echuca have 2 & 3 U/14 teams, but only field one U/16 team, there is a mountain of children that leave U/14s and have nowhere to go because they don’t get picked for the U/16 teams, they then have to decide whether they play KDL thirds against 18 yr olds or go to Tonny U/17s again against older kids.
The KDL is missing a huge opportunity to fill that gap and grab hold of 20-30 kids each year that clubs could keep in their system for good. And it just makes sense to lessen the gap that already exists for KDL clubs getting kids out of their U/14s straight to U/18s
 
hank1 said:
The KDL would gain more junior sides in their fourths comp if it went to U/15s. Guarantee Stanhope and a Lancaster or Girgarre would be able to field teams in this age group if it was available.
Kyabram and Echuca couldn’t care less about the kids that aren’t in their single U/16 sides. Kyabram and Echuca have 2 & 3 U/14 teams, but only field one U/16 team, there is a mountain of children that leave U/14s and have nowhere to go because they don’t get picked for the U/16 teams, they then have to decide whether they play KDL thirds against 18 yr olds or go to Tonny U/17s again against older kids.
The KDL is missing a huge opportunity to fill that gap and grab hold of 20-30 kids each year that clubs could keep in their system for good. And it just makes sense to lessen the gap that already exists for KDL clubs getting kids out of their U/14s straight to U/18s
Click to expand...
Love this post Hank! You’re privy to the goings on around Kyabram/Echuca and have provided a scenario that has merit.

I must admit that I have had blinkers on with wanting 11s, 14s, 17s; but honestly just been seeking that 3 year spacing that community clubs need to field teams.

KD could really go 9s, 12s, 15s, 18s.

It does go against totally against the Junior Review to align things, but that has been long forgotten and never implemented.

In my opinion you have just provided a rock solid solution that will go a long way to save our floundering junior competitions and engage those kids that find themselves squeezed from the GV system.

That top age year in U15s may just give some late developers a year to build and then decide if they move back to GV or ply their skills at district level.

8:45am: U9s with 9 on field &
U12s with 12 on field.

U12s use 2/3 of the field. Essentially a 50m arc and the centre square.

U9s use the other 50m arc.

9:45am: U15s with 15 on field.

11am: U18s with 18 on field.

12:30pm: Reserves
2:30pm Seniors

May I suggest that we present this at the upcoming AGM?
 
Last edited:
Have you read a more vanilla, corporate, boring statement than the one released today by AFLGM To shepp news today?
Insulting that they think this gobbledygook will be taken seriously.
Why not front up, speak to Shep News and other media who follow footy week in, week out and explain.
you might actually get some respect by just being honest.
but instead they want to put an even bigger space between themselves and invory towers they inhabit and those most affected by their decisions.
 
GrassKat said:
Love this post Hank! You’re privy to the goings on around Kyabram/Echuca and have provided a scenario that has merit.

I must admit that I have had blinkers on with wanting 11s, 14s, 17s; but honestly just been seeking that 3 year spacing that community clubs need to field teams.

KD could really go 9s, 12s, 15s, 18s.

It does go against totally against the Junior Review to align things, but that has been long forgotten and never implemented.

In my opinion you have just provided a rock solid solution that will go a long way to save our floundering junior competitions and engage those kids that find themselves squeezed from the GV system.

That top age year in U15s may just give some late developers a year to build and then decide if they move back to GV or ply their skills at district level.

8:45am: U9s with 9 on field &
U12s with 12 on field.

U12s use 2/3 of the field. Essentially a 50m arc and the centre square.

U9s use the other 50m arc.

9:45am: U15s with 15 on field.

11am: U18s with 18 on field.

12:30pm: Reserves
2:30pm Seniors

May I suggest that we present this at the upcoming AGM?
Click to expand...
Why only 15 on field in under 15s?
From experience I have seen U17 and even ressies teams play 16 a side if that is all the days numbers allow (or less) and a fair bit of borrowing players from the opposition in all grades (except seniors) at times - mostly juniors - but IMO if playing on a full field the aim should be to give as many kids as much game time as possible and just make your league rules to allow for a minimum number if required, kids don’t learn to play as well sitting on the line as they do on the field. Also seen plenty of times when both clubs have excess of numbers up to 22 on a field in under 14s
 
harsh. but fair said:
Have you read a more vanilla, corporate, boring statement than the one released today by AFLGM To shepp news today?
Insulting that they think this gobbledygook will be taken seriously.
Why not front up, speak to Shep News and other media who follow footy week in, week out and explain.
you might actually get some respect by just being honest.
but instead they want to put an even bigger space between themselves and invory towers they inhabit and those most affected by their decisions.
Click to expand...
“As the process unfolded, an updated proposal was put to the Commission. Whilst the Commission remains open to a new district league competition, the new proposal had a more significant impact on the region than initially proposed and required further consideration.”

Think that translates as thought the new league would accommodate Tocumwal topped up with PDFNL clubs, but in reality only two were prepared to move at this time and the rest were our KDFNL clubs who we don’t want to lose out of our control

Let’s see if they do now address the issues these said clubs were seeking a better outcome for and whether the other clubs in the league also up their game in regards to pushing for a sustainable junior pathway aligned with and included in and on the same gameday as the rest of the club.

If not revisit your decision and let them go!!
 

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