Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[go_the_dockers]

I’ve said many times before on here that I worry his handball heavy gameplan out of stoppages is going to be very difficult to execute under finals pressure. I’m looking forward to seeing it in action next September - maybe just maybe we have so much talent stacked that it doesn’t matter. Maybe he’ll tweak it to a more direct game style for finals and trust the forwards to win more 50:50 balls. Time will tell.

I worry our lack of quality small forwards, who take the 2 or 3 chances they have will hurt us. There were stats I read, that implied that key forwards rarely make a big difference in finals, and the game is one in the midfield or by the small forwards.

That and I think we are 2 or 3 one touch players, who can kick the ball to advantage. As you said, when the pressure goes up, you need to be clean and then use the ball well.

Simpson and Reid are critical for us, as finding a good small forward who can make the most of his opportunities.

I am still not convinced how much of an impact coaches have. I think it would be a max of 2 or 3%, and very few can switch things around in finals, and pull a victory from no where.

Being from Adelaide, I remember Blight switching the magnets around in 97 and 98, and players like Shane Ellen kicking 5 goals (for those who don't know, he was a half back that kicked 16 goals in his career including 5 in 97 GF)

I don't remember many other coaches having such an impact mid game. Clarkson, with his tactics was brilliant, but his team was equally good.
Ross Lyon was good, but his game plan was 5 years behind when he reaches us and Clarkson had already transformed the game.
Malthouse at Collingwood won a flag (he gets credit, not sure whose idea it was), by using the interchange more than other sides and running them off their feet.

 

[WilloTree]

I am less forgiving of our failure due to injury. They are always a factor and part of becoming a successful team is developing strategies. That is the role of a senior coach.

Instead:

• he played Taberner which was a poor decision
• he failed to test and develop Reidy until the season was in it's death throws.
• he persisted with Jackson in a non-winning decision which also negatively impacted our forward line.

All unconvincing choices that contributed to those end of season losses.

In short, I think Longmuir's career to date has shown that he is an excellent assistant coach.

It hasn't shown that he is capable of being a senior coach at the highest level.

For now he sits in between those two rungs on the ladder.

I understand where your coming from and agree with the overall message. I guess I've seen too many teams derailed by injuries to ignore it. Look at what happened at Melbourne when they lost Brayshaw and Petracca!

The one thing I will say is that if Freo MC were picking Ready to develop whilst also paying LJ and Onions nearly 2m I'd have been fn ropeable.

I'm actually pretty disappointed Jackson couldn't carry the ruck duties for what we gave up for him in draft capital. Maybe he will be able to in the future. Hope so.

 

[Dockeroo]

I'm actually pretty disappointed Jackson couldn't carry the ruck duties for what we gave up for him in draft capital. Maybe he will be able to in the future. Hope so.

Just an extra bit of pressure on LJ this year I reckon. I’d say he’s been ok, on the whole since he came over. Certainly not a bad trade and there has been moments of brilliance, but I would not call his recruitment a roaring success just yet either.
He’s teasing us, the flashes of class are there but there’s been games he’s been quite disappointing in too. I know reports were he had an injury too last year but that’s all dealt with in the off season.

He needs to clunk more marks in 2025 and impose himself on games more often in crucial moments.
Hate seeing Jacko in the ruck against brutes like Nank, Briggs and Xerri, so hopefully if Darcy is unavailable we will be selective about making sure Reidy is taking the brunt of the physical punishment against those type of guys.

 

[WilloTree]

Just an extra bit of pressure on LJ this year I reckon. I’d say he’s been ok, on the whole since he came over. Certainly not a bad trade and there has been moments of brilliance, but I would not call his recruitment a roaring success just yet either.
He’s teasing us, the flashes of class are there but there’s been games he’s been quite disappointing in too. I know reports were he had an injury too last year but that’s all dealt with in the off season.

He needs to clunk more marks in 2025 and impose himself on games more often in crucial moments.
Hate seeing Jacko in the ruck against brutes like Nank, Briggs and Xerri, so hopefully if Darcy is unavailable we will be selective about making sure Reidy is taking the brunt of the physical punishment against those type of guys.

Yeah. Just my opinion but ideally if Darcy goes down we run with Jackson and Treacy for mine. Treacy is a bit underrated as a chop out and Jackson has another preseason in him.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yeah. Just my opinion but ideally if Darcy goes down we run with Jackson and Treacy for mine. Treacy is a bit underrated as a chop out and Jackson has another preseason in him.

Treacy is coming back from a PCL injury. Why put him in the ruck and risk his knee. He has the potential to be a top 5 key forward in the league.
Jackson played sore all last year, and I doubt his body will hold up to being the number 1 ruck.


If it came to finals, then I would understand doing it, but early in the year we just have to play Reidy for the first few and then consider a change, if he is not competitive.

 

[WilloTree]

Treacy is coming back from a PCL injury. Why put him in the ruck and risk his knee. He has the potential to be a top 5 key forward in the league.
Jackson played sore all last year, and I doubt his body will hold up to being the number 1 ruck.


If it came to finals, then I would understand doing it, but early in the year we just have to play Reidy for the first few and then consider a change, if he is not competitive.

It's all hypothetical atm, but interesting discussion none the less.

Again, just my opinion but I haven't seen anything in Reidy that sceams 'pick me'. I do, however, like what Voss brings and in the end if Darcy goes down it's either Reidy or Voss.


The preseason games will shed some light.

 

[dockerfemme]

It's all hypothetical atm, but interesting discussion none the less.

Again, just my opinion but I haven't seen anything in Reidy that sceams 'pick me'. I do, however, like what Voss brings and in the end if Darcy goes down it's either Reidy or Voss.


The preseason games will shed some light.

I think saying Reidy or Voss oversimplifies things. If it is Reidy, then it is Reidy for Darcy and everything else stays the same. If it is Voss, then it is Dogga to no 1 ruck and either Voss or Treacy to ruck forward. I am totally against Treacy to ruck forward, he is far too valuable to use him in a position he can be pummeled. So it is Voss to ruck forward.

I think the Dogga, Voss option weakens us in multiple ways, in the ruck, in the forward line. Although Reidy is unproven as serviceable depth, for me, he is the best option if required for the team, until proven otherwise.

I have nothing against Voss and think if he tidies up his set shots and holds a few more marks he is serviceable depth for Treacy or Amiss.

 

[go_the_dockers]

It's all hypothetical atm, but interesting discussion none the less.

Again, just my opinion but I haven't seen anything in Reidy that sceams 'pick me'. I do, however, like what Voss brings and in the end if Darcy goes down it's either Reidy or Voss.


The preseason games will shed some light.

For me playing Reidy, especially early in the year gives you the following bonues.

Treacy and Jackson are protected.
Treacy and Jackson get practice playing in their proper role.
You find if Reidy can be a good backup. (Needs to be 20% better than last season, especially around the ground)

Come finals, I am happy to switch back to Jackson being the number 1 ruck but only if he is fresh. Ideally Darcy misses minimal games, and will be fully fit when we do play finals.

 

[WilloTree]

I think saying Reidy or Voss oversimplifies things. If it is Reidy, then it is Reidy for Darcy and everything else stays the same. If it is Voss, then it is Dogga to no 1 ruck and either Voss or Treacy to ruck forward. I am totally against Treacy to ruck forward, he is far too valuable to use him in a position he can be pummeled. So it is Voss to ruck forward.

I think the Dogga, Voss option weakens us in multiple ways, in the ruck, in the forward line. Although Reidy is unproven as serviceable depth, for me, he is the best option if required for the team, until proven otherwise.

I have nothing against Voss and think if he tidies up his set shots and holds a few more marks he is serviceable depth for Treacy or Amiss.

Maybe horses for courses? Some 2nd rucks going around are terrible. Treacy kills them.

 

[theGav56]

It's all hypothetical atm, but interesting discussion none the less.

Again, just my opinion but I haven't seen anything in Reidy that sceams 'pick me'. I do, however, like what Voss brings and in the end if Darcy goes down it's either Reidy or Voss.


The preseason games will shed some light.

This season is hypothetical, last season isn't. I have issues with the decisions JL made last year.

I understand where your coming from and agree with the overall message. I guess I've seen too many teams derailed by injuries to ignore it. Look at what happened at Melbourne when they lost Brayshaw and Petracca!

The one thing I will say is that if Freo MC were picking Ready to develop whilst also paying LJ and Onions nearly 2m I'd have been fn ropeable.

I'm actually pretty disappointed Jackson couldn't carry the ruck duties for what we gave up for him in draft capital. Maybe he will be able to in the future. Hope so.

If we recruited Jackson to be a first ruck replacement option then I think we made a mistake. My hope with Jackson is that he would enable our forward half work to go to another level by being very difficult to match up on and contain. As a replacement ruck he isn't that and we are weaker for it.

Also, half his salary would suffice for a stand by ruck. Break glass in case of emergency, no problem. But structurally I think it's questionable.

What are your thoughts on the following: I think we have a midfield well equipped to win the clearance against a winning opposition ruck.

The reverse -Sandilands move that opposition used against us quite effectively.

And not simply our usual midfield contingent who I think would excel, but running Reidy in the ruck with Jackson on-ball could/should be explored.

I worry our lack of quality small forwards, who take the 2 or 3 chances they have will hurt us. There were stats I read, that implied that key forwards rarely make a big difference in finals, and the game is one in the midfield or by the small forwards.

That and I think we are 2 or 3 one touch players, who can kick the ball to advantage. As you said, when the pressure goes up, you need to be clean and then use the ball well.

Simpson and Reid are critical for us, as finding a good small forward who can make the most of his opportunities.

I am still not convinced how much of an impact coaches have. I think it would be a max of 2 or 3%, and very few can switch things around in finals, and pull a victory from no where.

Being from Adelaide, I remember Blight switching the magnets around in 97 and 98, and players like Shane Ellen kicking 5 goals (for those who don't know, he was a half back that kicked 16 goals in his career including 5 in 97 GF)

I don't remember many other coaches having such an impact mid game. Clarkson, with his tactics was brilliant, but his team was equally good.
Ross Lyon was good, but his game plan was 5 years behind when he reaches us and Clarkson had already transformed the game.
Malthouse at Collingwood won a flag (he gets credit, not sure whose idea it was), by using the interchange more than other sides and running them off their feet.

The above move I proposed using Reidy in the ruck/Jackson on ball/midfield playing to a losing ruck is the kind of thing that I would like to see JL more capable of.

I'm not saying it's a genius move guaranteed winner, and I wouldn't even countenance that I am ever going to approach his level of coaching capacity.

What I am highlighting is that in coaching terms predictability can be exploited. He is a system based coach which is an excellent platform. I question if it is enough.

 

[go_the_dockers]

The above move I proposed using Reidy in the ruck/Jackson on ball/midfield playing to a losing ruck is the kind of thing that I would like to see JL more capable of.

I'm not saying it's a genius move guaranteed winner, and I wouldn't even countenance that I am ever going to approach his level of coaching capacity.

What I am highlighting is that in coaching terms predictability can be exploited. He is a system based coach which is an excellent platform. I question if it is enough.

This is just experimentation in games, and see what works. Agree, I wish we did it more.

If you try 10 ideas during the season for 30 minutes each, then hopefully you find 2 that work and it provides you more flexibility later in seasons and the ability to create a miss match.

The hard bit is finding time in the game, to experiment with different things. Obviously, if you are 5 goals up or down it becomes easy.

 

[Spirit Level]

The question I have is if we're not going to play Reidy when we need ruck coverage, wtf is he doing on the list

 

[dont bowl there]

The use of Jackson in 2025 will be intriguing, he’s far too good to be a standard forward/ruck. We need to use him as an actual mid or winger for moments and see what he can do.

 

[dominguez]

I worry our lack of quality small forwards, who take the 2 or 3 chances they have will hurt us. There were stats I read, that implied that key forwards rarely make a big difference in finals, and the game is one in the midfield or by the small forwards.

That and I think we are 2 or 3 one touch players, who can kick the ball to advantage. As you said, when the pressure goes up, you need to be clean and then use the ball well.

Simpson and Reid are critical for us, as finding a good small forward who can make the most of his opportunities.

I am still not convinced how much of an impact coaches have. I think it would be a max of 2 or 3%, and very few can switch things around in finals, and pull a victory from no where.

Being from Adelaide, I remember Blight switching the magnets around in 97 and 98, and players like Shane Ellen kicking 5 goals (for those who don't know, he was a half back that kicked 16 goals in his career including 5 in 97 GF)

I don't remember many other coaches having such an impact mid game. Clarkson, with his tactics was brilliant, but his team was equally good.
Ross Lyon was good, but his game plan was 5 years behind when he reaches us and Clarkson had already transformed the game.
Malthouse at Collingwood won a flag (he gets credit, not sure whose idea it was), by using the interchange more than other sides and running them off their feet.

We just traded 2 x first rounders for an AA small forward so that shouldn't be an issue this year.

Ross Lyon's game plan was 5 years behind the times when he arrived? We kicked 8 goals 14 and 5 x out on the full in the 2013 GF and lost by 15 points. Dominated clearance, inside 50, every stat that matters except one in that game it's not Ross's fault the players couldn't put it between the big sticks.

 

[dominguez]

I understand where your coming from and agree with the overall message. I guess I've seen too many teams derailed by injuries to ignore it. Look at what happened at Melbourne when they lost Brayshaw and Petracca!

The one thing I will say is that if Freo MC were picking Ready to develop whilst also paying LJ and Onions nearly 2m I'd have been fn ropeable.

I'm actually pretty disappointed Jackson couldn't carry the ruck duties for what we gave up for him in draft capital. Maybe he will be able to in the future. Hope so.

Big year coming up for Jackson. He'll get the 3rd best tall defender, should really average 15 possessions, 10 hit outs, 8 marks and close to 2 goals a game for the season.

 

[Lach72]

Good post this. Those excuse you list absolutely grind my gears when they get wheeled out.
Injuries can and will happen again. They are simply part and parcel of AFL footy and every coach has to deal with them. Darcy in particular as you point out was missing pretty much all of last year (the “real” Sean Darcy). I reckon he played 2 decent games all season. A banged up version cobbled together another 8 or 10 games at a pretty average level that was well off his best and he missed all the remaining games. It wasn’t like the loss of Darcy suddenly blindsided us with a month to go.

As for 15 wins, 16 wins etc - remember that the H&A season is only foreplay. Those wins only get you a ticket to the real show which is finals footy. Ken Hinkley knows this better than anyone.

Only then, will we finally start to obtain more evidence on how JL will be judged as a coach.

I’ve said many times before on here that I worry his handball heavy gameplan out of stoppages is going to be very difficult to execute under finals pressure. I’m looking forward to seeing it in action next September - maybe just maybe we have so much talent stacked that it doesn’t matter. Maybe he’ll tweak it to a more direct game style for finals and trust the forwards to win more 50:50 balls. Time will tell.

The players are also unproven too at this point. Wouldnt be giving them free passes and blaming it all on the coach if it goes pear shaped. Most of us agree they have huge talent as a collective. Again that just gets them an increased likelihood of a ticket to September. Other factors than talent then come much more into play from there on.

Desire, attitude, mentality, dealing with adversity. We have pretty much no evidence how these players will react if 25 points down in Q3 of a final against an inform contender? Will they freeze up and do stupid shit and hand victory away if leading by 3 points with 90 seconds left against someone like Collingwood in a knock out final? We just don’t know yet. Maybe they’ll blow everyone away, and finally kick that ****ing door down, how good would that be.

Treacy, Amiss, Bolton, Freddy, Jacko, Sturt.

If we can’t have confidence in that to move the ball more proactively and with occasional chaos, then Longmuir is done for.

Defence is one thing..,I get it…but, we have the cattle now up front, at least equal in its parts to Pav, Mayne, Ballas and Walters…

Be confident, give them the rope to fail. Allow some possibility of score against and rely on the wingers and defence to cushion that

 

[Lach72]

Yeah. Just my opinion but ideally if Darcy goes down we run with Jackson and Treacy for mine. Treacy is a bit underrated as a chop out and Jackson has another preseason in him.

Hmmm. its a massive no for me…

I’m not playing the next Pav anywhere but CHF…**** that

 

[dominguez]

Yeah. Just my opinion but ideally if Darcy goes down we run with Jackson and Treacy for mine. Treacy is a bit underrated as a chop out and Jackson has another preseason in him.

It'll be interesting, I think Reidy offers more in the ruck than having Voss as the 3rd tall. If Darcy is out injured and Treacy gets a knock in the ruck and goes down there will be a lot of criticism.

I think we'll see Reidy lead the ruck if Darcy is out, probably to be subbed out midway through the third for more run.

 

[dominguez]

I think saying Reidy or Voss oversimplifies things. If it is Reidy, then it is Reidy for Darcy and everything else stays the same. If it is Voss, then it is Dogga to no 1 ruck and either Voss or Treacy to ruck forward. I am totally against Treacy to ruck forward, he is far too valuable to use him in a position he can be pummeled. So it is Voss to ruck forward.

I think the Dogga, Voss option weakens us in multiple ways, in the ruck, in the forward line. Although Reidy is unproven as serviceable depth, for me, he is the best option if required for the team, until proven otherwise.

I have nothing against Voss and think if he tidies up his set shots and holds a few more marks he is serviceable depth for Treacy or Amiss.

Voss is 21, I think he'll be a handy depth player and have a long career at Fremantle even if he only plays 5 or 6 games a year.

A bit like Alex Silvagni, Jon Griffin, Kepler, etc.

 

[Hamann188]

Hmmm. its a massive no for me…

I’m not playing the next Pav anywhere but CHF…**** that

Yeah playing JT in the ruck, to me, feels like owning a Lamborghini and parking in the K Mart parking lot. It's not where it belongs.

It's gunna get some dings in the door if you know what I mean.

 

[WilloTree]

Hmmm. its a massive no for me…

I’m not playing the next Pav anywhere but CHF…**** that

The next Pav hey

 

[WilloTree]

This season is hypothetical, last season isn't. I have issues with the decisions JL made last year.

If we recruited Jackson to be a first ruck replacement option then I think we made a mistake. My hope with Jackson is that he would enable our forward half work to go to another level by being very difficult to match up on and contain. As a replacement ruck he isn't that and we are weaker for it.

Also, half his salary would suffice for a stand by ruck. Break glass in case of emergency, no problem. But structurally I think it's questionable.

What are your thoughts on the following: I think we have a midfield well equipped to win the clearance against a winning opposition ruck.

The reverse -Sandilands move that opposition used against us quite effectively.

And not simply our usual midfield contingent who I think would excel, but running Reidy in the ruck with Jackson on-ball could/should be explored.

The above move I proposed using Reidy in the ruck/Jackson on ball/midfield playing to a losing ruck is the kind of thing that I would like to see JL more capable of.

I'm not saying it's a genius move guaranteed winner, and I wouldn't even countenance that I am ever going to approach his level of coaching capacity.

What I am highlighting is that in coaching terms predictability can be exploited. He is a system based coach which is an excellent platform. I question if it is enough.

oh come on mate. Luke Jackson isn't worth 400k. You and I both know that.

I undertand what you are sayng, but when you post stuff like that it's just nonsence.

 

[freo84]

Keep the playing structure.

A ruckman goes out then we bring in a ruckman. Chopping and changing hurts the team and we need forward systems primed and ready.

 

[Quazar2]

Keep the playing structure.

A ruckman goes out then we bring in a ruckman. Chopping and changing hurts the team and we need forward systems primed and ready.

Precisely. No Darcy, play Reid. If Jackson is primarily groomed as a forward, that's where he should play. Bursts through the midfield shouldn't be out the equation. He is capable.

If talk is that Bolton should rotate through the middle sporadically, no reason why Jackson shouldn't be considered either.

 

[Wigarus]

oh come on mate. Luke Jackson isn't worth 400k. You and I both know that.

I undertand what you are sayng, but when you post stuff like that it's just nonsence.

Come on mate, Gav didn't say Jackson is worth 400k.

I understand what you're saying but when you post stuff like that it's just nonsense.