Not honest when its BS.
Obviously deflected the blame off himself.
Jon Ralph on why Macca was sacked
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Obviously deflected the blame off himself.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
Honestly, the whole "its their fault they're soft" argument that many are trumpeting I don't get. Now people like Ralph are reporting similar issues.
Firstly, the whole being tough thing simply might not be effective
Secondly, it might not be appropiate. Some players do need to be cuddled and have their hand held to get the most out of them, so be it. If it makes them happy and better players, so be it.
Thirdly, like the law of diminishing return, there's the point where the more you use ir, the less effective it becomes.
Lastly, notwithstanding the other points, from a purely list management perspective, even if being a "tough coach" is a good thing, if you're going to recruit players who thrive/respond to that (like Macrae), and dump those who don't (like Jones), you're limiting yourself to a very, very small part of the AFL player talent pool.
Firstly, the whole being tough thing simply might not be effective
Secondly, it might not be appropiate. Some players do need to be cuddled and have their hand held to get the most out of them, so be it. If it makes them happy and better players, so be it.
Thirdly, like the law of diminishing return, there's the point where the more you use ir, the less effective it becomes.
Lastly, notwithstanding the other points, from a purely list management perspective, even if being a "tough coach" is a good thing, if you're going to recruit players who thrive/respond to that (like Macrae), and dump those who don't (like Jones), you're limiting yourself to a very, very small part of the AFL player talent pool.
How do you take it out of any Macca discussion when its relevant?
How does a guy that can't coach then make valid personal assessments of his own players? Of course they were unproductive, hurtful, untrue, etc.
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The players that were leaving seem the obvious candidates for the ones at the centre of this. So players like Higgins, Cooney, Jones etc. Maybe they just weren't working hard enough and were going through the motions of being an AFL player? Seemed like that from an outsiders perspective.
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- #30
Many know I am/was a staunch supporter of BMAC
I worry that something this simple could get so out of hand. The club simply must have mechanisms in place so that this kind of thing can be stopped so it doesn't fester out of control
On the other hand, perhaps bmac desperately wanted to weed the problem players out ASAP and upsetting them was deliberate and calculated. But he miscalculated with Griffen and the whole situation spiralled out of control.
I wonder though whether Cooney and Griffen were finding it hard to motivate themselves in a developing side. I think they both gave it a rea shot in 2013 but for whatever reason 2014 went sideways and they felt it might be better they just move on.
I believe this can only be put a BMacs feet partially.
More over the clubs processes need an overhaul a d a level sophistication which is clearly absent. A review of the channels of communication, how grievances are handled, how players are communicated to and how often.
Don't we have a player leadership group?
Did in fact the board, management and senior coach knowingly but clumsly pursue a path which was to cash in whatever chips there were in the 28 plus group? Was this deliberate but blew up in their face, forcing Bmac to fall on his sword?
There are more questions then answers here.
I worry that something this simple could get so out of hand. The club simply must have mechanisms in place so that this kind of thing can be stopped so it doesn't fester out of control
On the other hand, perhaps bmac desperately wanted to weed the problem players out ASAP and upsetting them was deliberate and calculated. But he miscalculated with Griffen and the whole situation spiralled out of control.
I wonder though whether Cooney and Griffen were finding it hard to motivate themselves in a developing side. I think they both gave it a rea shot in 2013 but for whatever reason 2014 went sideways and they felt it might be better they just move on.
I believe this can only be put a BMacs feet partially.
More over the clubs processes need an overhaul a d a level sophistication which is clearly absent. A review of the channels of communication, how grievances are handled, how players are communicated to and how often.
Don't we have a player leadership group?
Did in fact the board, management and senior coach knowingly but clumsly pursue a path which was to cash in whatever chips there were in the 28 plus group? Was this deliberate but blew up in their face, forcing Bmac to fall on his sword?
There are more questions then answers here.
- Aug 1, 2008
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- #31
You have your man
At least permit some of us to complete our grieving process in some peace
absent another repetition of your 24 month poisoning campaign.
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- #33
There are ways of being tough/truthful without being overly personal. Saying the kind of things that Ralph is reporting were said is going to bring a lot of emotion into the situation and strain the relationship between coach and player.
Like if I disagree with something a poster on the forum says, I can say 'mate you are a deadset moron spewing rubbish'. That might inspire that person to go and research their topic and post better thought out things in the future.... But its much more likely to make them hate my guts and taint any ongoing interaction between us indefinitely.
Like if I disagree with something a poster on the forum says, I can say 'mate you are a deadset moron spewing rubbish'. That might inspire that person to go and research their topic and post better thought out things in the future.... But its much more likely to make them hate my guts and taint any ongoing interaction between us indefinitely.
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At the end of the day, i want my team to not be satisfied with anything other than winning the flag. we have to be absolutely ruthless. I am happy macca weeded out the softies....... Onwards and upwards from here IMO
If his assessments of players are valid how can they be untrue?
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If I had Cooney in an exit interview, I would say to him - knee or no knee, you have so much potential that you have never come near discovering in yourself. You coast in games and thru seasons.
You possess the quickest 5 yards in the league which you rarely exploit.
In 10 years of afl football you have never actually been run down from behind or in trying to sidestep a player
Instead when you feel any heat you panic kick like Tutt - it is embarassing for someone with your ability. You play clean bruise free risk free football
In 10 yeas of football you have not added a single new trick to your game - you are who you were when you walked into this club. In 2013 you did try to improve your defensive aspects but in2014 decided that is all too dull for you.
So you get sent forward. But with your pace a d ability you put in half hearted leads and go thru the motions
A d you know, I may have got carried away and called him a disgrace to his own natural talents
A Cooney serious about his football is still a top 10 player in the league. Maybe that's what Macca told him
You possess the quickest 5 yards in the league which you rarely exploit.
In 10 years of afl football you have never actually been run down from behind or in trying to sidestep a player
Instead when you feel any heat you panic kick like Tutt - it is embarassing for someone with your ability. You play clean bruise free risk free football
In 10 yeas of football you have not added a single new trick to your game - you are who you were when you walked into this club. In 2013 you did try to improve your defensive aspects but in2014 decided that is all too dull for you.
So you get sent forward. But with your pace a d ability you put in half hearted leads and go thru the motions
A d you know, I may have got carried away and called him a disgrace to his own natural talents
A Cooney serious about his football is still a top 10 player in the league. Maybe that's what Macca told him
Bont2Bruce
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Some Idiot
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Getting that personal with players is too far. I didn't like Mckenna doing it to Harbrow and I don't like the idea of Macca doing it to our players.
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With all due respect to you Mattdougie Athenian etc
I think you were always right he can't coach - certainly not like Eade - Eade is a game day strategy technician
Bmac is also obviously not a master man team manager like Clarkson
Brendan is about the player as a player committed to his craft. He is about getting the best out of yourself as a footballer. His knowledge about important but insignificant details in skills rkicking, marking hand balling, positioning against your opponent, running patterns etc, etc from the perspective of a player is the equal of anyone in the league.
In this he excels and at every club he has coached there are players who attest how much they learnt from him
A person like this just does not get those who have talent but coast - like Adam Cooney
A person like this can be onerous, unrelenting and not much fun.
He was perfect for our club and where we were at
He would be perfect for another year or two
He needed a structure of people around him to protect him from his own weaknesses and accentuate his elite strengths.
And year or two it would have been the right time to terminate his services
Or he may have adapted as the team matured and became more successful, I honestly don't know
But I suspect, you will hear some years down the track from a number of our young players how much they learnt from Brendan and how grateful they are.
There are many aspects of coaching - Eade for example, works well with talented players but is pathetic at development and has no time for those with limitations.
Read it again and don't just bold part of it. I wrote something like 'the coach can't make valid .......'
I never said his assessments were valid.
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Maybe some outsiders not all.
Aren't I allowed to comment on a thread discussing the actual matter?
I'll stop when you stop crying about Bmac.
My man? I was always after better a Western Bulldogs, not my fault you still can't see it.
Maybe you need to concentrate on your board ticket and your get rid of Minson campaign. How are they going?
All questionable.
TempleKelvington
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Well.....they knew all this at the "thorough review" they did. This was nothing new. So it was ok to back Macca at that point when they knew all this.
Griffen back flips and all the sudden everything changed because Macca suddenly wasn't sure he could go on without the captains support or wasn't sure the club was backing him as solidly.
I think what was said to the players by Macca, whatever it was, was irrelevant to him moving on. The board and management lost their kahunas when Griffen flipped.
They did the "review", supported the coach and they should have stayed the course and shown some guts. Either that or their review was poor or their judgment on it at that point was poor and so the people involved in that need to have a very hard look at themselves.
I have lost a lot of confidence in the guys running the club unfortunately if this is how they make big decisions. The Boyd deal I feel was a reaction in part to all this and it's in part why we paid massive overs for him. With the way our club is making big decisions at the moment I don't feel as excited as I should simply because I'm not sure they are making good calls at the moment.
It will hopefully work out ok in the end, at least we have been bold.....I can't be critical that they had a go and hit back had. Cost a lot though.
Griffen back flips and all the sudden everything changed because Macca suddenly wasn't sure he could go on without the captains support or wasn't sure the club was backing him as solidly.
I think what was said to the players by Macca, whatever it was, was irrelevant to him moving on. The board and management lost their kahunas when Griffen flipped.
They did the "review", supported the coach and they should have stayed the course and shown some guts. Either that or their review was poor or their judgment on it at that point was poor and so the people involved in that need to have a very hard look at themselves.
I have lost a lot of confidence in the guys running the club unfortunately if this is how they make big decisions. The Boyd deal I feel was a reaction in part to all this and it's in part why we paid massive overs for him. With the way our club is making big decisions at the moment I don't feel as excited as I should simply because I'm not sure they are making good calls at the moment.
It will hopefully work out ok in the end, at least we have been bold.....I can't be critical that they had a go and hit back had. Cost a lot though.
A coach that has Griffen, Cooney, Higgins and Jones all walking out together isn't a good a coach.
You can spin it all you want but he's not a good coach.
Higgins played off a half back when he's a fwd for the past 3 years. Jones never given a foil to play with and then dumped to the VFL. Griffen and Cooney personally abused.
I'd quit too.
of the 60 or so players that BMAC has coached at the dogs in the past 3 years only the very early draftee picks and a couple of others have improved. Most young players stagnated. Every 18 year old in the country is a better footballer when they are 21 assuming they rock up to training at least 3 times a week.
To claim a natural law of nature as a strength is clutching at straws.
I think his methods failed and I also believe he quit because he recognised that.
The club will be hurting from his damage for a few more years yet. He was our Mark Neeld.
I'm not happy at all with the way the club back-flipped on the griffen thing or the coach. It's a bad look that needs a review in itself but I feel a lot more confident about the next 10 years now we can go and find a coach who has proven they can coach and has proven they know how to communicate.
You can spin it all you want but he's not a good coach.
Higgins played off a half back when he's a fwd for the past 3 years. Jones never given a foil to play with and then dumped to the VFL. Griffen and Cooney personally abused.
I'd quit too.
of the 60 or so players that BMAC has coached at the dogs in the past 3 years only the very early draftee picks and a couple of others have improved. Most young players stagnated. Every 18 year old in the country is a better footballer when they are 21 assuming they rock up to training at least 3 times a week.
To claim a natural law of nature as a strength is clutching at straws.
I think his methods failed and I also believe he quit because he recognised that.
The club will be hurting from his damage for a few more years yet. He was our Mark Neeld.
I'm not happy at all with the way the club back-flipped on the griffen thing or the coach. It's a bad look that needs a review in itself but I feel a lot more confident about the next 10 years now we can go and find a coach who has proven they can coach and has proven they know how to communicate.
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I suspect you are on the money here.
He knew they would be more than happy to coast through the rest of their career, knowing success was unlikely and collecting their paycheck.
So he lit a fire under them.
Probably didn't realise it would blow up in the manner it did, though.
I still thank the guy - I am far more optimistic about our chances over the coming decade than I was a week/month/year ago.
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Not everybody gets up and quits immediately because the coach gets stuck into them personally. Some would resent it, but do nothing. Others might harbour a grudge and bide their time until their contract is up. Meanwhile other clubs are always circling and whispering in ears.
We have had a survivable mini-exodus that is a really bad look because it includes our Captain and best player. I guess the fear of the board would be, OK this is the problem as it appears on the surface, how bad is it underneath? If Macca stays, who is saying yes to offers in 12 to 24 months time and can we take that risk? Stringer? Hunter? Talia? Wood? There is no way in hell we can afford to lose young up and comers.
The irony is that Higgins, Cooney and Jones might go on to other clubs having internalised the criticism, and under the pressure of performing for a new club, actually take their games to higher levels.
We have had a survivable mini-exodus that is a really bad look because it includes our Captain and best player. I guess the fear of the board would be, OK this is the problem as it appears on the surface, how bad is it underneath? If Macca stays, who is saying yes to offers in 12 to 24 months time and can we take that risk? Stringer? Hunter? Talia? Wood? There is no way in hell we can afford to lose young up and comers.
The irony is that Higgins, Cooney and Jones might go on to other clubs having internalised the criticism, and under the pressure of performing for a new club, actually take their games to higher levels.
And now this, I think people throwing rocks at Cooney & Griffen just have to accept the place was out of control in the second half of this year.
Adam Cooney's Mother has spoken out on the Western Bulldogs Facebook page at reports that Adam requested a trade away from the club.
In response to fans asking if he'll be at the club next year and then wishing him farewell, she had this to say..
(A trade is yet to be officially announced but it's fair to say he won't be at the kennel next year. He has been linked to both North Melbourne and Essendon)
Adam Cooney's Mother has spoken out on the Western Bulldogs Facebook page at reports that Adam requested a trade away from the club.
In response to fans asking if he'll be at the club next year and then wishing him farewell, she had this to say..
(A trade is yet to be officially announced but it's fair to say he won't be at the kennel next year. He has been linked to both North Melbourne and Essendon)
So you know exactly what was said to the players and it was all untrue? Funny how the players that are leaving the club or are rumored to be unhappy are the very same players that were scrutinized by supporters jurnos' and here on BF as not putting in enough effort and/or having below par seasons.
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