Jack Ginnivan - Redemption arc

[Strapping Young Lad]

you might not like it, but it's a pretty accurate description.

You’d have no issue with the Sam Mitchell injection jibe then, seeing as it was an accurate description of what Bombers players did.

 

[RCAB]

You don't get a 20k fine for a bit of banter. The AFL investigated and know what was actually said.

I guess it's like Melbourne not tanking, and essendon not taking drugs. We all know what was actually said, but the AFL will let the masses argue Rather than actually making comment

It's not what was said, it's the timing. I've said this all along. What is there to be gained at the end of the game to gloat and taunt? The game is over. There's a reason he was fined was because of this.

 

[RCAB]

I've got no qualms with Sicily losing it. It's a really emotional job and that was a really emotional end to the year. But I do have qualms with Mitchell lauding it as great leadership and then Sicily coming out the next day and saying he was proud of it. It's a really ugly message they're both sending out.

The comments about Kenny are because he's been copping it big time in the media. Sicily hasn't from what I've seen.

What's the ugly message Mitchell is sending out?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yes. Kenny was gloating. Towards a player who published a gloating tweet a week beforehand. Who plays for a team that gloats after most goals they kick. Who are supported by supporters who have been gloating about their fantastic success for decades.

Now somehow, this club, it's past players and some of its supporters are outraged and sooking about Kenny gloating. It's absolutely hilarious. A finals exit for the ages topped off by Mitchell and Sicily being proud of a tantrum and considering it great leadrship.

Don’t let facts get in the way of a nice melt.

Jack didn’t make a tweet to gloat.
He wrote a comment on a mates Instagram post, and did not reference either Hinkley or Port.

Hawks supporters aren’t outraged or sooking, far from it. The majority I’ve seen are loving and laughing at how broken posters like you and a bunch of ex-players and commentators like Robbo, King etc are because Hawthorn offended you all year long by simply winning and having fun.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Fair dinkum, $20,000 fine for being unfriendly, where's the fine for Sicily?

Hawthorn isn't this fragile, its all Sicily. I honestly believe Jack didn't need protecting.

More mental gymnastics.

Ginnivan comment on insta, bad sportsmanship.
Hinkley goading player after siren directly, good banter.
Sicily responding, fragile.

This will never not be funny.

 

[sr36]

My fundamental point of my opinion is it happened immediately after the game while still on the ground, I give sis an excuse because he shouldn't have been put in that situation, don't give Kenny the same excuse because he had avenues to deal with his. but he has put I'd hand up already so it should be dealt with in my eyes.

Regarding the follow up, I feel the club is now putting a united front for the media.

Media will keep asking questions for the week and the goldfish will forget it by the weekend after the results.

My view is that Kenny is mainly being highlighted because of Sicily's reaction.

From a teachers perspective, it wasn't dignified by Kenny nor was the tweet by Ginni - but that public dignity is a facade. Boys and men play by hanging shit on each other whether on the footy field, golf course or even playing scrabble - it's not an issue. We play and often bond by hanging shit on each other strutting and gloating and that crosses cultures. It's innate. In terms of Kenny's message, what is learnt is the public facade, which culturally is dropping as American rapper style trash talk is becoming normal - because it's fun. Trash talking is fine.

Sicily's reaction looked like an inability to emotionally regulate. It's an issue. It's what we'd work on as teachers - the kid who struggles to regulate - unless we felt that Kenny was actually bullying Ginnivan or trying to get Sicily to respond like that, which is a massive stretch. So in terms of the AFL fining Kenny for the message he sent out - it's a crock of shit - the red flag message was that Sicily losing it was portrayed as great leadership. It's the terrible message - not a bit of gloating

 

[Footy Smarts]

The size of the fine is just weird.

I don't really have an issue with anything Hinkley, Ginnivan, Sicily or Mitchell (the injection thing) did. I think they all come off looking like mild dickheads but that's allowed. Nobody killed anyone or wanted to incite violence.

This isn't McCartney getting involved in a melee or Clarkson throwing out homophobic slurs or abusing an umpire at a junior match.

 

[HeHateMe]

My view is that Kenny is mainly being highlighted because of Sicily's reaction.

From a teachers perspective, it wasn't dignified by Kenny nor was the tweet by Ginni - but that public dignity is a facade. Boys and men play by hanging shit on each other whether on the footy field, golf course or even playing scrabble - it's not an issue. We play and often bond by hanging shit on each other strutting and gloating and that crosses cultures. It's innate. In terms of Kenny's message, what is learnt is the public facade, which culturally is dropping as American rapper style trash talk is becoming normal - because it's fun. Trash talking is fine.

Sicily's reaction looked like an inability to emotionally regulate. It's an issue. It's what we'd work on as teachers - the kid who struggles to regulate - unless we felt that Kenny was actually bullying Ginnivan or trying to get Sicily to respond like that, which is a massive stretch. So in terms of the AFL fining Kenny for the message he sent out - it's a crock of shit - the red flag message was that Sicily losing it was portrayed as great leadership. It's the terrible message - not a bit of gloating

Kenny's drive by absolutely lit a fire that was already burning. That's why we have things like sportsman-like and sportsmanship, you shake hands after a game for that reason, to decompress.

Emotionally regulating in public or normal life vs doing it after a final where you have physically and mentally put it all out there is different. Kenny had the opportunity to do it on the sidelines in the race and off camera, sis did not.

The great leadership part is standing by his men and being uncompromisingly in front of them. We need to look at the context of when where and how it lead to it. Not just the outcome.

Anyway that's enough of this, i obviously have a favourable bias for sis and it is what it is.

 

[sr36]

Don’t let facts get in the way of a nice melt.

Jack didn’t make a tweet to gloat.
He wrote a comment on a mates Instagram post, and did not reference either Hinkley or Port.

Hawks supporters aren’t outraged or sooking, far from it. The majority I’ve seen are loving and laughing at how broken posters like you and a bunch of ex-players and commentators like Robbo, King etc are because Hawthorn offended you all year long by simply winning and having fun.

You're in nana land if you think Jack wasn't gloating.

Next thing you'll be trying to claim that your last paragraph wasn't gloating.

I hope you're being honest that you aren't sooking. But the leaders of your club and past players in the media sure as hell had a sook about someone gloating. When the Hawk leaders and ex-greats are having a go at Kenny about gloating - they're also having a go at you and the way you gloat on this board about Hawthorn success.

 

[sr36]

What's the ugly message Mitchell is sending out?

Losing your shit is good leadership.

Must have learnt it from Clarko...

He said how proud he was about Sicily and the great leadership he showed. Sicily then the next day regurgitated pride in losing his shit and that it was good leadership. Not a good message.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Fair dinkum, $20,000 fine for being unfriendly, where's the fine for Sicily?

Hawthorn isn't this fragile, its all Sicily. I honestly believe Jack didn't need protecting.

I'd love to hear what Ginnivan has to say, but I guess they want this to quiet down. I would hazard a guess he felt a bit annoyed at Ken, but would see the funny side and cop it on the chin.

Sam Mitchell wasn't dissimilar as a player, not quite as IDGAF as Jack, but he taunted the bombers that time, and took his punishment with a smile. I don't much like him but certainly respect him, and he's becoming a decent coach.

The fly in this ointment is Sicily, and even he is doing his best to be a better man. Failed to apologise for his petulant display, even claimed his meltdown was "sticking up for a team mate" lol. "Me-me-me, mum look, I'm angry and demonstrative WHERE ARE MY TENDIES MUM". Hawks are rallying around this goofball, you're going to get spattered from all his froth. He's worth it I s'pose, really fine player now and growing into a captain.

As for the journos, they are sock puppets. Dermott I will listen too, but Hodge is trying to sell me payday loans so he can be quiet.

Selling me payday loans

Ha ha - not heard that one before

 

[sr36]

The great leadership part is standing by his men and being uncompromisingly in front of them. We need to look at the context of when where and how it lead to it. Not just the outcome.

It's a very Clarko viewpoint. The rest of the world has moved on and aren't so fond of that viewpoint.

 

[HeHateMe]

It's a very Clarko viewpoint. The rest of the world has moved on and aren't so fond of that viewpoint.

Yeah, that's probably fair take. It's absolutely a different style to Darcy who is considered a great leader.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

“You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit” isn’t very friendly to me.

Very telling that the media are leaving out the "you little f*ckwit" part of what Ken said.

Doesn't fit the narrative.

You can understand the "not flying anywhere" bit as banter, but an older coach calling a younger player a "little f*ckwit" crosses the line from friendly banter.

It is a bit aggressive, just like Sam said.

Doing it as a legend of the game is about to be chaired off is disrespectful.

And as a leader, James Sicily was absolutely right to have a few words with an opposition coach.

And here's Ken's post-match comments:

"Jack said what he said during the week, and I just told him after the game he wasn't going anywhere. I don't know social media, I just do what I do, and y'know what I shouldn't have done it, I should apologise to the boys, I shouldn't have probably done it, but the reality was you throw something back occasionally."

Very interesting to note that he didn't own up to the "f*ckwit" part of the comments, or when he said it.

Completely unapologetic.

And it's funny how those people who are criticising Mitchell's statement where he praised Sicily's leadership in standing up for his teammate are completely silent about Ken's post match interview.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

Let's all take a moment to remember the exact point in time when Sicily lost a final off his own boot!!!!

Then sooked it up minutes later, followed by his coach.

Glorious!

Let's all remember the point in time you saw a meme that was circulating on social media ( https://bsky.app/profile/ajsadauskas.bsky.social/post/3l3zzx7a74y2q ) and then four days later decided to palm it off as your own on BigFooty.

 

[sr36]

Yeah, that's probably fair take. It's absolutely a different style to Darcy who is considered a great leader.

For me it was a, FFS. It's what Clarko says in every post **** up press conference. Where he starts with the apology that he has been told to give and then transitions to: I stick up for my boys and I'm proud of that so this was really a good thing I did.

 

[HairyO]

The size of the fine is just weird.

I don't really have an issue with anything Hinkley, Ginnivan, Sicily or Mitchell (the injection thing) did. I think they all come off looking like mild dickheads but that's allowed. Nobody killed anyone or wanted to incite violence.

This isn't McCartney getting involved in a melee or Clarkson throwing out homophobic slurs or abusing an umpire at a junior match.

Yeah. It should have been $20k suspended or $10k.

McCartney was worse.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

Both Nine and Fox Footy have run full segments of confected outrage.

They've shown grabs from the press conference where they only highlight the sentence about Ken Hinkley being older, which was a side point.

The main point Mitchell was clearly making about Sicily's leadership in the situation were left out.

Case in point: Nine on Footy Classified including that one line from Sam's press conference as if it was all he said on the matter. Ignoring the core point that Sam was making, and that Sicily's leadership.



All the opposition supporters on here who clearly didn't watch the press conference in full have mindlessly repeated the lines they heard on TV.

 

[RCAB]

Losing your shit is good leadership.

Must have learnt it from Clarko...

He said how proud he was about Sicily and the great leadership he showed. Sicily then the next day regurgitated pride in losing his shit and that it was good leadership. Not a good message.

Sicily lost his shit because he told Ken "go eat more cakes, fatty" or "good game mate"?

Sicily wasn't the one that initiated the taunt at the end of the game. It's ok for Ken not to be stoic but Sicily has to be? Who's got more control in this situation?

Tell me a time Sicily taunted his opposition at the end of a game, despite players targeting him every game knowing how influential he is?

I know exactly the message Mitchell sent to Sicily and the team in the press conference.

Well done for standing up to yourself and not smashing Ken's face. Just reserve it for next time we play Port. Don't give them any respect, treat them like the fools they are; they fired their best shot and still only won by 3 points home, while we played like shit.

Get better in the off season, play better football, and make them and Ken feel the pain of a 60pt thrashing from now on.

That's is what is pissing you off. Hawthorn were supposed to be tanking this year, not showboating after each goal and win. Ken put us back in our place and we should rightly be campering in a corner, timid and scared. Instead the opposite will occur and you're frightened. I suggest maybe stop watching AFL for the next 10 years if you felt Hawthorn this year was insufferable.

 

[Cyclops]

More mental gymnastics.

Ginnivan comment on insta, bad sportsmanship.
Hinkley goading player after siren directly, good banter.
Sicily responding, fragile.

This will never not be funny.

I'm 100% in Ginnis camp. It was a bit of fun with a mate, not even directed at Port. Not much of a filter, Jack, and impulsive.

Ken a grumpy old bum in the "yeah nah triffic" school, put it on the whiteboard as it it was Mein Kampf. It's old fashioned and silly but he's old and silly. Takes pot at Jack, he shouldn't have taken it so personally and ge admitted his errorseveral times.

It was Sicily who turned this into DRAMA. He didn't have a few words, he went turbochops as he was carrying Breust off.

Leadership? Nah. Sicily made a mess. He's getting better but he's still a sook.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You're in nana land if you think Jack wasn't gloating.

Next thing you'll be trying to claim that your last paragraph wasn't gloating.

I hope you're being honest that you aren't sooking. But the leaders of your club and past players in the media sure as hell had a sook about someone gloating. When the Hawk leaders and ex-greats are having a go at Kenny about gloating - they're also having a go at you and the way you gloat on this board about Hawthorn success.

Your definition of gloating is broken. He was confident, at worst.

No the leaders at my club didn’t have a sook, Sicily fired back at a senior coach targeting one of his players and the coach backed him.

The ex-leaders took umbrage to a senior coach kick starting all this after the game while a 300 gamer was about to be chaired off, because they expected much better behaviour from someone of his tenure.

Instead we’ve read that it’s just banter, he was fine to do it…when every single Hawthorn fan knows that if the boot was on the other foot, and that was Mitchell poking shit at Port after a loss calling a palyer a “****head” multiple times you’d be beside yourself with outrage.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It was Sicily who turned this into DRAMA. He didn't have a few words, he went turbochops as he was carrying Breust off.

Leadership? Nah. Sicily made a mess. He's getting better but he's still a sook.

Needs more hyperbole.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You’d have no issue with the Sam Mitchell injection jibe then, seeing as it was an accurate description of what Bombers players did.

i certainly didn't have a sook about it as much as you are rofl

 

[Purple Suit]

Kenny's drive by absolutely lit a fire that was already burning. That's why we have things like sportsman-like and sportsmanship, you shake hands after a game for that reason, to decompress.

Emotionally regulating in public or normal life vs doing it after a final where you have physically and mentally put it all out there is different. Kenny had the opportunity to do it on the sidelines in the race and off camera, sis did not.

The great leadership part is standing by his men and being uncompromisingly in front of them. We need to look at the context of when where and how it lead to it. Not just the outcome.

Anyway that's enough of this, i obviously have a favourable bias for sis and it is what it is.

Sicily lost his shit but it's completely understandable. You just lost by a point and the opposition coach is doing the wrong thing, at that point you have every right to lose your shit. Someone like Sicily can only hold it together for that long.

I recon the fine is deserved and 20K is peanuts to a 10 year head coach. They fine rookie 2K for a bit of push and shove and they probably have to not go out for the whole week.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

From a teachers perspective, it wasn't dignified by Kenny nor was the tweet by Ginni - but that public dignity is a facade. Boys and men play by hanging shit on each other whether on the footy field, golf course or even playing scrabble - it's not an issue. We play and often bond by hanging shit on each other strutting and gloating and that crosses cultures. It's innate. In terms of Kenny's message, what is learnt is the public facade, which culturally is dropping as American rapper style trash talk is becoming normal - because it's fun. Trash talking is fine.

Ginni's see you in 14 days comment was clearly friendly pre-match banter.

Kenny's post match response to the pre-match banter was: "You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit”.

If Ken had left it at "you're not flying anywhere", then he might have been a coward for delivering it after the game, but it's friendly banter.

An older coach who has been in the fame a long time shouting "you little ****wit!" at a very young player is self-evidently no longer friendly, and can be read as somewhat aggressive.

Especially if it's done after everyone has already shaken hands

unless we felt that Kenny was actually bullying Ginnivan or trying to get Sicily to respond like that, which is a massive stretch.

It's telling that in his immediate post-match interview, Ken claimed he said "you're not flying anywhere" and didn't mention the part where he shouted "Jack you little f*ckwit".

He knew admitting that part would make him look bad.

Sicily's reaction looked like an inability to emotionally regulate. It's an issue. It's what we'd work on as teachers - the kid who struggles to regulate

The person in this situation with a clear inability to emotionally regulate is Ken Hinkley.

People who emotionally regulate don't let phrases like "Jack you little f*ckwit" slip, especially at inappropriate moments.

In the face of an opposition coach who was going too far an hurling abuse at a much younger teammate, at an inappropriate time, having a word to the coach was an entirely appropriate action.

As a person in a position of authority, it showed leadership.