It's time to go: John Barker

[2Sewell4School]

I recommend playing the Benny Hill theme when the ball enters our forwardline.
It compliments the action perfectly!

You don't sit in P9 do you? I heard someone singing that exact tune during some of our antics today.

 

[Glenferrie Oval]

I'm not sure what either Buddy's or Roughy's fitness level is but they are certainly not at the level they were at in ’08 due to niggly injuries etc. They were also feared in ’08. Now opponents think they can go out and beat them. I’m not sure where Roughy’s confidence is at the moment.

Also, can someone get a video of buddy trying to break through a pack and ending up getting caught! I’m sick of this happening! Dish the f*&^ing thig off ASAP. Opponents now run to buddy like flies to shit because they know he will try and break through.

The forward structure is not working but the ‘playing level’ of Buddy and Roughy is not the same as it was in ’08.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Perhaps if Clarkson allowed our forwards to play in the forward line Barker would have more to work with?

Exactly.

I cant believe JB keeps getting the blame.

Clarko has a game plan and Barker has to coach within it.

FWIW I dont like our gameplan very much, and I blame it, not JB for Roughys fairly mediocre contribution.

 

[Rioli magic]

I'm no Barker fan and would be happy if he was moved on, but if the criteria is "we had no one in our forwadline and no one to kick to" I think there will be 16 forward coaches out of a job next season.

 

[diggydig]

FWIW looks to me like there are two factors which led to the current setup

1) Our defensive zone got holes in it as other teams learned how to play it. As our defence is even weaker than 2008, Clarko's solution is to send the forwards behind the ball to reduce the pressure on our defence;

2) Franklin is much weaker overhead post-shoulder operations, and was never a superstar in the one on one situation anyway. He is, however, the most agile big man ever to play the game, and they are looking for a way to exploit this.

I agree its not working (though Frankilin is getting a lot of ball).

I suspect the solution is to let Franklin run up the ground to use his engine, but keep Roughead and Rioli and/or Osborne just inside the 50.

 

[RJL Hawk]

The forward half is our real weakness now. The backline whilst not brilliant is settled and the midfield is loaded with our best players. But it is clear that when we get to 2-3 goals up we just cannot turn that into a 5-6 goal lead. The opposition always comes back and we're always under pressure. It happened again today and we could only really relax with 2 minutes left on the clock. The top teams put lesser teams away at that point there's something that stops us converting dominant midfield work into scoreboard pressure.

 

[Messenger]

FWIW looks to me like there are two factors which led to the current setup

1) Our defensive zone got holes in it as other teams learned how to play it. As our defence is even weaker than 2008, Clarko's solution is to send the forwards behind the ball to reduce the pressure on our defence;

2) Franklin is much weaker overhead post-shoulder operations, and was never a superstar in the one on one situation anyway. He is, however, the most agile big man ever to play the game, and they are looking for a way to exploit this.

I agree its not working (though Frankilin is getting a lot of ball).

I suspect the solution is to let Franklin run up the ground to use his engine, but keep Roughead and Rioli and/or Osborne just inside the 50.

A couple of well made points there.

The other trend we a re see is the tendency for forwards to push up and compress the midfield and forwards then drop out and run towards goal. A return to Pagan's Paddock. It damages our ability to move the ball quickly and reduces the quality of supply also.

I think the answer is staring us all in the face. Have a presence in forward 50, give Buddy space to attack the ball on the lead. Play Roughead across HF; he is good enough on the ground to have an impact.

 

[ventor1]

Play Roughead across HF; he is good enough on the ground to have an impact.

He can't run to save himself!
I would suggest Roughy at FF and Buddy across HF with Cyril and Hoops to mop up.

In as far as blaming Barker is concerned, he does what he does in line with the game plan. On this basis (and while I have been a staunch supporter of Clarko to date), I have now jumped the fence and blame Clarko!

Having nobody outside our 50 is ludicrous. Playing Browny in the forward line when we have Roughy and Buddy makes no sense. Dropping Skipper last week for Taylor was stupid... and the list goes on and on!


My highlight for the arvo' was a bloke in P12 who was approached by security and asked to stop swearing or leave. His reponse:
"I'm sorry mate, but I f#cking love this guy and he is f#cking everything up. Do you know what I mean? He is a f#cking star and he is making too many f#cking mistakes".
lol....

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Look tbh, our gameplan is extraordinarily average all over the park, not just the forward line.

It is time to go John Barker, but it's also very close to Al Clarkson going as well....

 

[Threadkilla]

Exactly.

I cant believe JB keeps getting the blame.

Clarko has a game plan and Barker has to coach within it.

FWIW I dont like our gameplan very much, and I blame it, not JB for Roughys fairly mediocre contribution.

^^This

Liked JB as a player, can't say I know too much about his coaching -
But seriously, FFS guys, Barker could have the best forward-line game-plan going around, but if it doesn't fit in with what Clarko wants to do over the rest of the ground, then it isn't going to be used, is it??
Have a think about it.

On that though, there were times yesterday when we just kept banging it long out of defence, blindly, where nobody was ahead of the ball for us, and it just kept being brought back in.
Seriously looked ridiculous, and amateurish. Very very frustrating to watch.

 

[Henry Jr]

Think we all need to take a step back and look at the big picture.

Since employing this defensive game plan after the West Coast game, the club has won 8, drawn 1 and lost 3 games (two of them interstate FFS).

Now, if you want pretty as pink game plan, go watch the Bombers with their run and carry. "Ohhhhh, their an exciting team to watch Essendon" says the commentators. Yeah, well, look where that has got them.....

Would like to get Simon_Nesbit to drag out the Goals from Stoppages stats for me (I don't have access to them) from Rnd 8 if thats possible mate. I have a hunch but can't back it up.

 

[burner1]

Agree Henry Jr - it may not be the prettiest game style going around but it is highly effective and generally gets us thereabouts against the top teams.

I mean we can try to play a pretty run and carry game like the bulldogs but we all saw on the weekend how well that works when the blowtorch is applied by a quality team.

The way we play is going to stand up to finals like pressure.

 

[Bronks]

Look tbh, our gameplan is extraordinarily average all over the park, not just the forward line.

It is time to go John Barker, but it's also very close to Al Clarkson going as well....

Its seems as though many many people on this thread dont really understand what the head coach means? Head Coach means that person controls the game plan and the assistants aid in getting the players to follow that game plan.
In terms of the forward setup, it is pretty simple why they have to push up the ground and cover the space and thats because our back line isnt upto scratch. We saw it against Port with Shultz (spelling) that we cant have big opposition players being 1 on 1 in the forward line cos Gilham (HORRIBLE in a contest) and others arent good enough, hence they need help from up the ground.
Anyway, I think you guys should concentrate on getting rid of someone who is currently having a really bad effect on the club based on being a selfish big talker who only likes to hear the sound of his voice instead of putting whats best for the club as his No1 priority. That being Jeff Kennet! He wouldnt know what a team actually was if his life depended on it!

 

[PNess]

^^This

Liked JB as a player, can't say I know too much about his coaching -
But seriously, FFS guys, Barker could have the best forward-line game-plan going around, but if it doesn't fit in with what Clarko wants to do over the rest of the ground, then it isn't going to be used, is it??
Have a think about it.

Spot on. Unless you know the facts and are in the inner sanctum them what would you know about JB's role/input/decisions?

 

[mess]

Does anyone know how intensive the interview process is for an Assistant Coaches job? It seems from the outside that it's pretty cruisy. Getting the senior job seems painstaking beyond belief, but I can't help but suspect that a lot of assistants in the league seem to have been put on just to get work experience, having gotten their foot in the door on the back of their playing reputation.

I'd love to be corrected.

 

[mess]

^^This

Liked JB as a player, can't say I know too much about his coaching -
But seriously, FFS guys, Barker could have the best forward-line game-plan going around, but if it doesn't fit in with what Clarko wants to do over the rest of the ground, then it isn't going to be used, is it??
Have a think about it.

Well if Barker's plan doesn't fit in with Clarko's plan, and if Barker can't sway Clarko to alter his plan, and if Clarko can't get Barker to come up with a plan that matches his plan, then that's gotta amount to some impending bad news for one of them, doesn't it?

 

[Threadkilla]

Well if Barker's plan doesn't fit in with Clarko's plan, and if Barker can't sway Clarko to alter his plan, and if Clarko can't get Barker to come up with a plan that matches his plan, then that's gotta amount to some impending bad news for one of them, doesn't it?

May have missed my point somewhat.

Barker's plan will always be reliant on Clarko's.
Same goes for any assistant-coach for any team I would've thought.

 

[mess]

May have missed my point somewhat.

Barker's plan will always be reliant on Clarko's.
Same goes for any assistant-coach for any team I would've thought.

So what you're saying is that the Forward line coach can't be judged on the performance of the forward line, because he's not really responsible for it/anything?

Cool. Sack him for fun. Can't hurt, can it?

 

[Rioli magic]

May have missed my point somewhat.

Barker's plan will always be reliant on Clarko's.
Same goes for any assistant-coach for any team I would've thought.

Na, Barker invented the forward press at St Kilda before he left, you know the one Collingwood employ, and every other club in the league too. It's all his fault. Now, he's at Hawthorn, we're the only club that has an empty forwardline at times during a game, you didn't see Melbourne on a fast break yesterday.

 

[dipper86]

Think we all need to take a step back and look at the big picture.

Since employing this defensive game plan after the West Coast game, the club has won 8, drawn 1 and lost 3 games (two of them interstate FFS).

Now, if you want pretty as pink game plan, go watch the Bombers with their run and carry. "Ohhhhh, their an exciting team to watch Essendon" says the commentators. Yeah, well, look where that has got them.....

Would like to get Simon_Nesbit to drag out the Goals from Stoppages stats for me (I don't have access to them) from Rnd 8 if thats possible mate. I have a hunch but can't back it up.

Thats not the issue though, we have always employed a defensive game plan this year, the turning point after round 8 was that we had the personal back on the park, we started winning contested possessions and that actually resulted in gaining confidence winning matches and gaining some momentum.

In 2008 we also employed a defensive game plan but on the offensive we kept the ball moving constantly with handball, breaking of the lines, switching of the play and getting it in quickly and effectively to our forwards. We applied scoreboard pressure even though we had a major deficiency down back which is still present today......our offensive play is a real issue at the minute, yesterday we had a lot more inside 50's, but we either were to slow getting the ball inside 5o which resulted in the crowding of our forward line, errant kicks inside the 50 which happens and our structure in the sense that many times we had no forward present in our 50. This has been happening all year.

 

[skilfulgun]

There isn't much point having Roughead stay at home in the goal square, he is finding hard enough to get into games as it is. I think he should be started at CHF, told to get on his bike and work ala riewoldt & J. Brown to make as many contests as he can to provide a target for the boys coming out of defense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2008 buddy played primarily out of the goal square & his speed on the burst and reach made him one of the hardest players to stop on the lead resulting in a 100+ goal season. Sure, he is dangerous up the ground and a hard match up, but you'd think he'd be more damaging hitting the scoreboard more often?

 

[Threadkilla]

So what you're saying is that the Forward line coach can't be judged on the performance of the forward line, because he's not really responsible for it/anything?

Cool. Sack him for fun. Can't hurt, can it?

No, what I'm saying is that Barker's role would be to ensure that the group that he is in charge of (in this case the forwards, in case somebody missed this), tow the company-line with the full-ground game-plan that has been developed.

He may or may not have played a part in the development of said game-plan, but at the end of the day he cannot, say, plonk Buddy in the goal-square if Clarko wants him pushing up to the wings now can he?

Clarko said it himself - he lives by the sword and shall die by the sword.
Look no further.

 

[mess]

No, what I'm saying is that Barker's role would be to ensure that the group that he is in charge of (in this case the forwards, in case somebody missed this), tow the company-line with the full-ground game-plan that has been developed.

He may or may not have played a part in the development of said game-plan, but at the end of the day he cannot, say, plonk Buddy in the goal-square if Clarko wants him pushing up to the wings now can he?

Clarko said it himself - he lives by the sword and shall die by the sword.
Look no further.

If that's all he has to do, he should probably have a bit of spare time to help Roughy get his mind right. Sounds like the rest of it is a job that could be done by any old retired schoolmarm.

 

[Threadkilla]

If that's all he has to do, he should probably have a bit of spare time to help Roughy get his mind right. Sounds like the rest of it is a job that could be done by any old retired schoolmarm.

For what its worth - I'm not saying Barks is a good coach/shit coach/coach's arseh*le - all I'm saying is that his game plan, and that of the rest of the groups', is dependant on the overall team's gameplan. End of story.

Be it a great gameplan, or a terrible one - Clarko should/would accept responsibility for it, and only those in the inner sanctum would know if JB, or anyone else for that matter, is doing their job to an acceptible level.

That's it, I'm done.

 

[PottSie2]

Would love to get some views from Saints supporters regarding how they view the change in their gameplan post Barker.