Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Mobbs]

The Israeli government has flat out been caught lying - not twisting words, but flat out lying. Hamas reps has not been guilty of that like the the Israeli government has.

All good except I just don't agree with this bit above ^ I saw him as bold-faced lying. (Not saying Israel don't also do it and will add that Israel have a wider reach, a wider support network, and a wider media strength so their doing the same thing can be more effective and damaging by far).

The hospital bombing from a while back? Yeah I haven't even mentioned it cos I don't think I have anything to offer. And all these claims that evey wellbeing infrastructure is used by Hamas? I think its a stretch by Israel to claim this. There's recently some claim in the news that Israel had reached a hospital that was the headquarters of Hamas. Quite a few things seem off about that claim.

Here's my take:
Everything Israel says is believable. They are actually right, they're telling the truth all the time. They honestly wanted to - and took steps to - warn Gazans to get outta the road cos this is coming. And the fact they gave basically 3 minutes warning, is enough to tell you that there's no reason to believe the first three sentences of this paragraph.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

All good except I just don't agree with this bit above ^ I saw him as bold-faced lying. (Not saying Israel don't also do it and will add that Israel have a wider reach, a wider support network, and a wider media strength so their doing the same thing can be more effective and damaging by far).

The hospital bombing from a while back? Yeah I haven't even mentioned it cos I don't think I have anything to offer. And all these claims that evey wellbeing infrastructure is used by Hamas? I think its a stretch by Israel to claim this. There's recently some claim in the news that Israel had reached a hospital that was the headquarters of Hamas. Quite a few things seem off about that claim.

Here's my take:
Everything Israel says is believable. They are actually right, they're telling the truth all the time. They honestly wanted to - and took steps to - warn Gazans to get outta the road cos this is coming. And the fact they gave basically 3 minutes warning, is enough to tell you that there's no reason to believe the first three sentences of this paragraph.

its because its just true lol.

well said.

its funny i agree with far majority of what PieLebo87 says, for some reason we are stuck on this issue.

 

[Chief]

Because this place is your world.

Yes friend. Of course it is.

And you're in it.

 

[NinjaSwan]

View attachment 1847695

And then even younger than 18 you have things like 14 year olds hosting virtual protests for Palestine on Roblox because they're too young to attend real ones, good signs for the future at least.

 

[NinjaSwan]

If you support the existence of Israel as a nation-state then you are pro-Israel, not to the extent of people endorsing genocide obviously but you are still in support of Israel.

 

[Jello_B]

You do realise that the Greens condemned the attacks committed by Hamas yes?

They aren't siding with Hamas nor with the actions of the Israeli government and IDF.

Dogs R Us comes in here, drops the odd controversial post (extremely biased towards supporting Israel’s current actions) and then scampers away for a few days. There is no engagement and they don’t respond to posts when challenged.
They are either an Israeli or a troll. Either way I wouldn’t worry about them other then to continue to disproving their rubbish so that others that view the thread infrequently are not influenced by their Israeli propaganda.

 

[Jello_B]

View attachment 1847695

Better ring mum and dad and check they know what the internet is.

 

[Saint Shags]

Dogs R Us comes in here, drops the odd controversial post (extremely biased towards supporting Israel’s current actions) and then scampers away for a few days. There is no engagement and they don’t respond to posts when challenged.
They are either an Israeli or a troll. Either way I wouldn’t worry about them other then to continue to disproving their rubbish so that others that view the thread infrequently are not influenced by their Israeli propaganda.

Fair enough.
Look I don't always agree with the Greens but I've seen this idea from conservatives that the won't dare condemn Hamas yet it only takes a simple search to disprove it. It frustrating.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You do realise that the Greens condemned the attacks committed by Hamas yes?

They aren't siding with Hamas nor with the actions of the Israeli government and IDF.

Don't bother, anything less than licking Israel's shoes isn't enough for that poster.

 

[Roby]

If you support the existence of Israel as a nation-state then you are pro-Israel, not to the extent of people endorsing genocide obviously but you are still in support of Israel.

If you really want to support the state of Israel you don't support their genocidal war mongering, otherwise you're not really supporting Israel, as your increasing its existential security risk.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

If you support the existence of Israel as a nation-state then you are pro-Israel, not to the extent of people endorsing genocide obviously but you are still in support of Israel.

There is nothing wrong with that position though I think. I support Israel but I’d like to see both them and Palestine have states in unison.

It’s possible but not with Hamas and Zionism present.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

wtf

 

[NinjaSwan]

There is nothing wrong with that position though I think. I support Israel but I’d like to see both them and Palestine have states in unison.

It’s possible but not with Hamas and Zionism present.

You’re entitled to that view, but true freedom and liberation of Palestine requires abolition of the Israeli state and the return of colonial lands.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You’re entitled to that view, but true freedom and liberation of Palestine requires abolition of the Israeli state and the return of colonial lands.

That’s not reasonable nor realistic. So I think it’s much better time spent focusing on how they can live in unison and peace.

You could say the same thing for almost every country on earth that has been conquered over history.

Simply not feasible.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

 

[Crankyhawk]

Unre

You’re entitled to that view, but true freedom and liberation of Palestine requires abolition of the Israeli state and the return of colonial lands.

alis as return of Australia to First Nations sovereignty. Not going to happen.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Unre

alis as return of Australia to First Nations sovereignty. Not going to happen.

not to mention almost every other country on planet earth.

 

[Roby]

Don't fooled by Israeli propaganda, this American nurse who worked in Gaza and just got out, tells it like it is.

 

[Roby]

Time's new cover

 

[Roby]

Gaza death toll tops 10,000; UN calls it a children's graveyard

Gaza is becoming a "graveyard for children", U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres said on Monday, amplifying demands for a ceasefire in the enclave, where Palestinian health authorities said the death toll from Israeli strikes had exceeded 10,000.

www.reuters.com

Israel said 31 soldiers had been killed since it began expanded ground operations in Gaza on Oct. 27 and reiterated that Hamas was hiding with civilians and at hospitals. Hamas said the idea that Hamas was based in hospitals was a "false narrative that the U.N. should verify.

Israel said it's unrealistic to send the UN to investigate. Gee, I wonder why.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

'The UN high commissioner for human rights, Volker Türk, began a five-day visit to the Middle East on Tuesday to engage with government officials and civil society on the human rights violations taking place amid Israel’s escalation in Gaza. “It has been one full month of carnage, of incessant suffering, bloodshed, destruction, outrage and despair,” Türk said in a statement.'

More than half a million people in northern Gaza face death by starvation as food supplies run “perilously” low, an international charity has warned. Riham Jafari, coordinator of advocacy and communication for ActionAid Palestine, said “Cases of dehydration and malnutrition are increasing rapidly”. UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, has described the situation in Gaza as a “tragedy of colossal proportions”. A World Health Organization spokesperson said on Tuesday that more than 160 healthcare workers had died while on duty in Gaza.

Guardian live blog

 

[Mobbs]

Palestine leader Mahmoud Abbas reportedly given an ultimatum to upscale opposition to the Israel attacks, and then himself attacked by "Sons of Abu Jandal".

“Brother Abu Mazen has 24 hours to produce a clear position, announcing full confrontation with the occupation,” a statement by the ‘Sons of Abu Jandal’ group read.

Palestine Chronicle from 6th November:

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/24-hours-ultimatum-to-mahmoud-abbas-who-are-sons-of-abu-jandal/

Per the Palestinian Chronicle: "The group is calling itself Sons of Abu Jandal, in honor of Yousef Ahmed Raihan, a PA officer who led the fight in defense of the Jenin refugee camp in April 2002. "


Edit: The following has been challenged and is now could be disinformation - and is from a clash between PA and criminals in Ramallah at a previous time. I'm in two minds now because the source contesting the claim is pro-Russian propaganda channel Rybar who are usually a good source of learning what to not believe:
The footage that is passed off as an attempt on the life of Mahmoud Abbas was actually filmed during clashes in the Jalazun camp near Ramallah , where an operation by Palestinian Authority law enforcement forces to capture drug dealers took place. According to security spokesman Talal Duikat , six security personnel were injured, one of them in serious condition. Mahmoud Abbas has absolutely nothing to do with this. [link]

Then this recently (not not officially confirmed) Disputed and claimed to not be related to recent ultimatum given to Mahmoud Abbas:
The media report an attack on the convoy of Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas. This information has not been officially confirmed. Türkiye Newspaper reports that one security guard was killed in the attack. Preliminarily, members of the Sons of Abu Jandal group took responsibility for the attack - they had previously given Abbas 24 hours to “attack Israel.”
Baza TG link

Spoiler: a security guard dies in one of these videos (details of event have been challenged)

View attachment IMG_5116.MP4
View attachment video_2023-11-07_18-54-03.mp4

 

[the_interloper]

Gaza death toll tops 10,000; UN calls it a children's graveyard

Gaza is becoming a "graveyard for children", U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres said on Monday, amplifying demands for a ceasefire in the enclave, where Palestinian health authorities said the death toll from Israeli strikes had exceeded 10,000.

www.reuters.com

Israel said 31 soldiers had been killed since it began expanded ground operations in Gaza on Oct. 27 and reiterated that Hamas was hiding with civilians and at hospitals. Hamas said the idea that Hamas was based in hospitals was a "false narrative that the U.N. should verify.

Israel said it's unrealistic to send the UN to investigate. Gee, I wonder why.

I wonder if Israel will be able to verify if Hamas were hiding below hospitals post bombing? I mean are Israel making this up just so they bomb hospitals for the hell of it?

 

[LewisHall]

This is an interesting article from Caitlin Johnstone along similar lines

Here are the ten dumbest things we’re being asked to believe about Israel’s war on Gaza, in no particular order:

1. That Israel had no idea what Hamas was up to prior to October 7, but ever since October 7 has known about every hospital, mosque, school, refugee camp and water tower that Hamas is hiding in.

2. That the blame for all of the deaths caused by Israeli weapons launched by Israel rests solely on Hamas.

3. That Hamas is using “human shields” — meaning Hamas bases are hidden amidst civilian populations — yet Israel is managing to kill thousands of civilians without doing any meaningful damage to Hamas.

4. That it would be perfectly fine to murder children by the thousands even if they werebeing used as “human shields” — as though resolving a hostage situation by mowing down thousands of child hostages would be regarded as reasonable and acceptable by the public if it happened in our own country.

5. That it is only by pure coincidence that Israel bombing “Hamas targets” in civilian infrastructure and residential buildings just so happens to look exactly the same as what you’d expect to see if Israel was simply bombing civilian infrastructure and residential buildings and lying about its reasons for doing so.

6. That satellite images of entire neighborhoods reduced to rubble in Gaza have been caused by “precision strikes” directed solely at Hamas and have been carried out with the greatest of care for human life, despite Israeli officials openly saying that “the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy” in this assault and that “Gaza will eventually turn into a city of tents; there will be no buildings.”

7. That this bombing campaign has anything to do with freeing Israeli hostages — as though the bombing campaign itself has not killed dozens of hostages, and as though anyone believes Israel would stop bombing Gaza after the hostages are returned.

8. That the only reason anyone could possibly oppose the detonation of thousands of bombs on an open air prison full of children would be if they had very strong and hateful opinions toward the members of the religion of Judaism.

9. That Hamas attacked Israel entirely out of the blue and completely unprovoked, solely because they are evil and hate Jews.

10. That Washington is powerless to stop this genocide that it is directly funding and supplying.

The media narrative on this really is ridiculous when you break it down like that.

View attachment 1848169

It smells fishy IMHO.

 

[Saint]

I wonder if Israel will be able to verify if Hamas were hiding below hospitals post bombing? I mean are Israel making this up just so they bomb hospitals for the hell of it?

They havent even tried to provide evidence for any of their bombing. Evacuating a kids hospital will cost lives. Cloaing the hospital will cost lives. Destroying it with bombs will cost lives, even if its empty when the bombs hit.

Its disgusting and inexcusable. Even if the leader of Hamas were sitting directly underneath it. (He's not, he's in Qatar). If Israel knew Hamas were under hospitals, why have they never said anything about it until now?

I genuinely think Israel are lying and that theyre bombing these areas so Gazans can never return, as a form of ethnic cleansing.

It takes 2 seconds of common sense to understand that even if they were in the hospital today, they won't be when the bombs hit. So Israel are levelling critical buildings for no reason.