Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[sr36]

I am not sure you thought through exactly what you are saying........

Basically, the entire known world has been built on colonialism. East, West, North & South. It isn't a "Western" thing at all. Humans have been killing and conquering other humans since we crept out of the ooze.

If Israel is a veneer, we all are.

The point is related to the "West" telling itself that its control was about superior ideas rather than superior weapons. The point wasn't about Western countries being the only countries that have used force to re-shape the world. That's a point for those who want a heroes and villains portrayal of the world - ala the Hollywood/Western perspective.

The veneer of the democratic rules based world order has dropped, but it was only ever a veneer - it was always about might.

 

[Not Important]

anyone surprised? anyone?





if only more jews were standing up for truth and humanity. a man of compassion and decency is antony.

 

[Not Important]

that court has been doing the same thing for yonks. a pack of rancorous, inhumane nogoodniks.



a paper of real journalistic standards. the one, the corrupt leader, is attempting to nobble.

 

[Not Important]

go ireland!

 

[Scotland]

The land never belonged to Britain to create to a Zionist state in Palestine.

Who did the land belong to?

 

[faible]

Who did the land belong to?

The people who lived there already that haven't ever really had a say in anything.

 

[Scotland]

The people who lived there already that haven't ever really had a say in anything.

And who are those people? The area has been conquered more times than France.

 

[faible]

And who are those people? The area has been conquered more times than France.

By and large they're now what we call 'Palestinians'. Some of the Israeli population. Some would live in surrounding countries and be nominally Jordanian, or others.

It certainly wasn't unoccupied lands. There's been occupants going at least as far back as the Canaanites. These peoples have likely been Jewish, Christian and Islamic over the tenure.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The point is related to the "West" telling itself that its control was about superior ideas rather than superior weapons. The point wasn't about Western countries being the only countries that have used force to re-shape the world. That's a point for those who want a heroes and villains portrayal of the world - ala the Hollywood/Western perspective.

The veneer of the democratic rules based world order has dropped, but it was only ever a veneer - it was always about might.

Not really.

Anyone who has conquered anyone in history has believed their idea/values/way of life are better than those they have colonialized.

Again, the idea that this is a "western" only thing is incorrect.

The West certainly do it now (which is a fair comment), but for centuries prior (which is what the post stated), everyone else did it their own way & it certainly was not the west only.

 

[faible]

the idea that this is a "western" only thing is incorrect.

Is this that thing where HTW makes up something no one said, to argue against it?

 

[Saint]

They've actually had trouble finding bad people for their movies.
Nazis were done to death, a bit of North Korea, its just gotten harder and harder to find people that can be slaughtered wholesale by our hero.
Sometimes they resort to a fictional country, then aliens are always an easy choice .

Too easy to Google up the place which is supposedly evil and find out that it's quite a nice place full of nice people, but some American company/Imperial state has come in and ruined the place and left a despot or anarchy in their wake.

I'm looking forward to Israel pretending to want a ceasefire with Hamas, as well as the hostages back, even though they vowed to kill anyone in Hamas with the leadership authority to release the hostages or sustain a ceasefire.

 

[Saint]

Israel has arrested every adult male in Beit Lahiya to take them back to Israel for "questioning" and told the women and children to leave.

And the world sits on and watches the ethnic cleansing unfold. In the US, they cheer it on.

 

[sr36]

Not really.

Anyone who has conquered anyone in history has believed their idea/values/way of life are better than those they have colonialized.

It's not actually true. Many conquering cultures have come from a might is right perspective.

But even if it was true, your still missing the point - it's not saying that the West is an exception in terms of it's views of itself. It's saying that the West's views of it's global domination of the 20th Century based on something other than might is not a view held by the rest of the world.

 

[Saint]

And who are those people? The area has been conquered more times than France.

Israel calls them Palestinians, when they admit to their existence. The reality is that most of the current Palestinians who still live in the area were probably converted to Judaism from some previous religion, maybe then to Christianity and then converted to Islam. The Muslim Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank almost certainly have much more hereditary links to the Jews of the Kingdom of Judah than the Jewish settlers from Eastern Europe.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

It's not actually true. Many conquering cultures have come from a might is right perspective.

But even if it was true, your still missing the point - it's not saying that the West is an exception in terms of it's views of itself. It's saying that the West's views of it's global domination of the 20th Century based on something other than might is not a view held by the rest of the world.

Ok well, the original post did not refer to the 20th century.

it referred to "hundreds of years"

if you are going to tell me the point of a post, at least read it.........

 

[faible]

Ok well, the original post did not refer to the 20th century.

it referred to "hundreds of years"

if you are going to tell me the point of a post, at least read it.........

View attachment 2177324

HTW and his inability to understand posts is legendary.

At no point does this say only the west has done this.

 

[sr36]

Ok well, the original post did not refer to the 20th century.

it referred to "hundreds of years"

if you are going to tell me the point of a post, at least read it.........

View attachment 2177324

Um.... You're the one who took a post about how the West views itself differently to how other countries views it and then twisted it into some strange whattaboutism.

But yes, apologies for looking at the quote just in terms of US dominance and not European dominance. I view them as significantly different eras.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Israel calls them Palestinians, when they admit to their existence. The reality is that most of the current Palestinians who still live in the area were probably converted to Judaism from some previous religion, maybe then to Christianity and then converted to Islam. The Muslim Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank almost certainly have much more hereditary links to the Jews of the Kingdom of Judah than the Jewish settlers from Eastern Europe.

A lot of people converted when the new rulers ( whichever case you talk about ) threatened anyone who didn't adhere to the true religion.
But then we pretend that ever religion is a different ethnicity.

 

[Scotland]

By and large they're now what we call 'Palestinians'. Some of the Israeli population. Some probably live in surrounding countries.

It certainly wasn't unoccupied lands. There's been occupants going at least as far back as the Canaanites. These people's have likely been Jewish, Christian and Islamic over the tenure.

Israel calls them Palestinians, when they admit to their existence. The reality is that most of the current Palestinians who still live in the area were probably converted to Judaism from some previous religion, maybe then to Christianity and then converted to Islam. The Muslim Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank almost certainly have much more hereditary links to the Jews of the Kingdom of Judah than the Jewish settlers from Eastern Europe.

What we now call Palestinians were just called Arabs prior to the UN partition plan.

Who is arguing the area was unoccupied? Bizarre strawman. There is certainly an argument that the British and French had no business dividing the Middle East (and Africa) into nation states in the 20th century but no one seems to object to the existence of states other than Israel. The creation of any state of Palestine is a 20th, now 21st century issue. The actions of the IDF, UN, PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah etc. are all 20th/21st century things.

Islam didn't exist until the 7th century AD and there would be no Islam in the region at all if not for the Arab conquest of the Levant. Christianity is older than Islam, and Judaism is older than that. And before Judaism people would've worshipped someone/something else. Which is kinda the point. What is "Palestinian land" was controlled by the Ottomans, who took over from the Mamluks, who took over from the... how far back do you want to go? Arabs and Jews if you want to distinguish them as ethnic groups have existed in the area for thousands of years. It's not Australia where the indigenous population existed on an isolated island for tens of thousands of years.

Anyway don't these people believe in Issac and Ishmael and all that? Two sons of the same dude that lived thousands of years ago and yet people that claim to be descendants of each are fighting over their differences.

 

[faible]

Who is arguing the area was unoccupied?

Strange way of arguing against 'the people that live there should have a say in things' I guess.

The people who lived there already that haven't ever really had a say in anything.

And who are those people?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Um.... You're the one who took a post about how the West views itself differently to how other countries views it and then twisted it into some strange whattaboutism.

But yes, apologies for looking at the quote just in terms of US dominance and not European dominance. I view them as significantly different eras.

no one twisted anything, you just didn't read the entire post chain.

But in terms of the West now, i do agree with you to be fair.

 

[Markfs]

The land was promised by god to the israelis. Isnt that enough? The one who invented land, actually promised a piece of it to the israelis. This should settle all disputes......

All the judeo-christians out there questioning god's promise should be ashamed of themselves...

 

[Saint]

What we now call Palestinians were just called Arabs prior to the UN partition plan.

Who is arguing the area was unoccupied? Bizarre strawman. There is certainly an argument that the British and French had no business dividing the Middle East (and Africa) into nation states in the 20th century but no one seems to object to the existence of states other than Israel. The creation of any state of Palestine is a 20th, now 21st century issue. The actions of the IDF, UN, PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah etc. are all 20th/21st century things.

Islam didn't exist until the 7th century AD and there would be no Islam in the region at all if not for the Arab conquest of the Levant. Christianity is older than Islam, and Judaism is older than that. And before Judaism people would've worshipped someone/something else. Which is kinda the point. What is "Palestinian land" was controlled by the Ottomans, who took over from the Mamluks, who took over from the... how far back do you want to go? Arabs and Jews if you want to distinguish them as ethnic groups have existed in the area for thousands of years. It's not Australia where the indigenous population existed on an isolated island for tens of thousands of years.

Anyway don't these people believe in Issac and Ishmael and all that? Two sons of the same dude that lived thousands of years ago and yet people that claim to be descendants of each are fighting over their differences.

They're not just "Arabs", except that "Arab" is a broad term from the west which covers a lot of the Islamic world. But it's like saying we don't call Americans Americans, we just call them Caucasians or Westerners.

The word Palestine and derivatives or origin words have been used continuously since pre-Judaean times (Egyptian) and continue to be used today.

We're getting tied up in semantics. Everyone knows who the Palestinians are, they're the people who lived in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel. The current UN-recognised Palestinian borders are the 1967 borders, and the people of Palestine include those displaced by the creation of the state of Israel and those who remain in Israel. The majority of the world recognises the state of Palestine in those borders.

 

[Markfs]

No good posting stuff from the arab side. It's the israelis that set the agenda through their friends at Fox for example. So the Hez is already breaking the ceasefire by ubering people around beirut suburbs....

 

[Markfs]

They're not just "Arabs", except that "Arab" is a broad term from the west which covers a lot of the Islamic world. But it's like saying we don't call Americans Americans, we just call them Caucasians or Westerners.

The word Palestine and derivatives or origin words have been used continuously since pre-Judaean times (Egyptian) and continue to be used today.

We're getting tied up in semantics. Everyone knows who the Palestinians are, they're the people who lived in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel. The current UN-recognised Palestinian borders are the 1967 borders, and the people of Palestine include those displaced by the creation of the state of Israel and those who remain in Israel. The majority of the world recognises the state of Palestine in those borders.

so many have travelled down this "logical road" and then they start whining in the UN or having debates or doing nothing....rinse and repeat