Opinion INTERNATIONAL Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 5

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Kane McGoodwin said:
It was from a post you liked & quoted that Hamas orchestrated the deaths. Did they really?

No doubt they started this mess & would have expected some retribution, but do you think they really thought Israel would retaliate by killing 47K people?
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I don’t think they were planning an exact number, but I’m certain Hamas’ aim in all this was to provoke Israel into killing thousands of Palestinian civilians, destabilise the region, and radicalise more Muslims to extremist ideology.

I’m also certain that history will show they succeeded with this. That was Secretary of State Blinken’s assessment in his final address this week.

It may seem counter intuitive given Gaza has been flattened, but I honestly think Hamas limp away from this conflict as the victors.

That’s why this war is so f***ed. The more Palestinian civilians Israel kill, the more support for Hamas and anti-Israel sentiment grows across the Middle East, the more risk there is of an even larger and bloodier conflict in the region.
 
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ADL9798 said:
I don’t think they were planning an exact number, but I’m certain Hamas’ aim in all this was to provoke Israel into killing thousands of Palestinian civilians, destabilise the region, and radicalise more Muslims to extremist ideology.

I’m also certain that history will show they succeeded with this. That was Secretary of State Blinken’s assessment in his final address this week.

It may seem counter intuitive given Gaza has been flattened, but I honestly think Hamas limp away from this conflict as the victors.
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You think Hamas have been the victors?

Most of their leadership have been killed.

No one were victors from this... just losers.
 

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Kane McGoodwin said:
You think Hamas have been the victors?

Most of their leadership have been killed.

No one were victors from this... just losers.
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Like Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Hezbollah and other radical fundamentalist groups, I think of Hamas as an ideology rather than a distinct group of people or a geographical region.

The leadership is mostly gone but that ideology persists and is probably strengthened coming out of this.
 
ADL9798 said:
Like Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Hezbollah and other radical fundamentalist groups, I think of Hamas as an ideology rather than a distinct group of people or a geographical region.

The leadership is mostly gone but that ideology persists and is probably strengthened coming out of this.
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They're definitely groups, driven by ideology - and you are 100% correct that the ideology persists. The pre-war Hamas leadership may have been almost entirely killed, but the group's raison d'etre (reason for being) has only been strengthened.

It will take time, but there is no reason to think that Hamas won't rebuild (under new leadership), with a whole new generation of recruits motivated by the current Gaza invasion.

Arguably the biggest factor here is how much Iran's influence has been eroded as a result of their disastrous losses in Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas, and their willingness to continue arming their proxies. Note also that Israel has announced an intention to go after Iran's sole remaining proxy - the Houthis in Yemen. Without Iran's ongoing support, Hamas will wither & die due to a lack of resources.
 
ADL9798 said:
Like Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Hezbollah and other radical fundamentalist groups, I think of Hamas as an ideology rather than a distinct group of people or a geographical region.

The leadership is mostly gone but that ideology persists and is probably strengthened coming out of this.
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They will never be short of recruits.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
Ilst totaYou think Hamas have been the victors?

Most of their leadership have been killed.

No one were victors from this... just losers.
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I would recommend the film, The Siege (1998) starting Denzel Washington and Annette Benning. Whilst totally fictional it gives a sort of insight into this stuff. And another is The Kingdom (2007).

One cell gets eliminated and another takes it place. Reckon that maybe even how Hamas works (and all other similar organisations). And as ADL9798 says the more killing that occurs of Palestinians the more possible recruits for Hamas.

I’m not sure peace will ever occur in that region permanently and it will always just be below the surface.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
You think Hamas have been the victors?

Most of their leadership have been killed.

No one were victors from this... just losers.
Click to expand...
Killing all those people ensures waves of new recruits. Whether it's Hamas specifically that benefits or some future iteration is splitting hairs.

I see it as not unlike what happened in Vietnam. If you dig into docos that have any first hand accounts from people that were there, it becomes pretty obvious that all the communists needed for more recruits was for a group of marines to go through a village.
 
adelaidecrows said:
Ive read a few of the stupidest takes on the LA fires on this thread and the one thing they have all in common is Trump said so. If you go down that approach then just know the world thinks you are dumb.
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Marjorie Greene space lasers and let's send seeds to the clouds to make rain.
Oh and Trump suggest sending a missile into an on coming Storm.
 
ADL9798 said:
Like Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Hezbollah and other radical fundamentalist groups, I think of Hamas as an ideology rather than a distinct group of people or a geographical region.

The leadership is mostly gone but that ideology persists and is probably strengthened coming out of this.
Click to expand...
No doubt these groups are about (radicalised) ideology.

Hopefully killing off much of their leadership will make it more difficult for them. I don't think they expected the extent of the Israeli retaliation (though they should have).

No doubt the deaths of Palestinians will attract new recruite, but hopefully they are now weaker.

Any new Palestinian government cannot have any of these radicalised types involved or remotely connected.

It's hard to see that there will ever be lasting peace in this region, but hopefully they can prove me wrong.
 
Mr_Moogle said:
Killing all those people ensures waves of new recruits. Whether it's Hamas specifically that benefits or some future iteration is splitting hairs.

I see it as not unlike what happened in Vietnam. If you dig into docos that have any first hand accounts from people that were there, it becomes pretty obvious that all the communists needed for more recruits was for a group of marines to go through a village.
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At least Vietnam now is a peaceful country & fantastic place to visit.. though plenty of tragedy about their history. So much of their land is still unusable because of land mines.
 

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Cap said:
Mel Gibson, I'm sure many of our Trump fans would hate this given his past antisemitism
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Perhaps Mel was an advisor on middle east peace talks...
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
At least Vietnam now is a peaceful country & fantastic place to visit.. though plenty of tragedy about their history. So much of their land is still unusable because of land mines.
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Yes great place to visit (Sapa was great) but is still a communist country and for example, watching any tv media is on delay. Was watching the 2017 qualifying final (vs GWS) in Hanoi and started getting messages we had won and we had only just started to watch the last quarter. They still censored all incoming overseas feed.
 
kirky said:
Yeh that is going to help getting old farts has beens who have little relevance in Hollywood nowadays.

Voight is 86, Stallone is 78 and Gibson is the spring chicken at 68.
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Well they are around Trump's age of 78.
 
kirky said:
Yeh that is going to help getting old farts has beens who have little relevance in Hollywood nowadays.

Voight is 86, Stallone is 78 and Gibson is the spring chicken at 68.
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I can't remember the last time I watched anything with Voight in it. For Gibson, it's probably Hacksaw Ridge, which was almost 10 years ago.

For Stallone, it's Tulsa King, which I watched last year - and which will (hopefully) be renewed for further seasons. So, at least Stallone is currently relevant.
 
Vader said:
I can't remember the last time I watched anything with Voight in it. For Gibson, it's probably Hacksaw Ridge, which was almost 10 years ago.

For Stallone, it's Tulsa King, which I watched last year - and which will (hopefully) be renewed for further seasons. So, at least Stallone is currently relevant.
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Voight - Enemy of the State (1998) from memory last time I saw him.
 

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