-
Weekly Prize - Join Any Time - Tip Round 1
The Golden Ticket - MCG and Marvel Medallion Club tickets and Corporate Box tickets at the Gabba, MCG and Marvel.
Hubris
- Thread starter Clay Davis
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
Well it didn't take long for this thread to degenerate.
On topic, the whole hubris thing seemed to be relating to a premature declaration of a possible 'dynasty'. Not unique to Hawthorn, it seems after just about every flag people talk up back-to-back, dynasty etc. Call it short memories, greed or whatever, but more often that not it does not come to pass. Whilst always wanting more is somewhat healthy, I think clubs and supporters should spend more time living in the present and enjoying the flag for what it is.
On topic, the whole hubris thing seemed to be relating to a premature declaration of a possible 'dynasty'. Not unique to Hawthorn, it seems after just about every flag people talk up back-to-back, dynasty etc. Call it short memories, greed or whatever, but more often that not it does not come to pass. Whilst always wanting more is somewhat healthy, I think clubs and supporters should spend more time living in the present and enjoying the flag for what it is.
- Banned
- #103
Apparently it's okay these days to start threads about the "arrogance of a football club" and then Geelong fans are permitted to veer off topic and list all the reasons why they hate that club and why they hate the fans of that club.kickazz said:
I thought these threads were normally moved to Bay 13.
According to you, the fans of the club must take it. They are not supposed to say anything in their defence. If they bite back and point out people's hypocrisy, it is an example of the thread "degenerating".
The thread cannot degenerate. It was shit from the first post. A rubbish article from Rohan Connolly which apparently encapsulates the arrogance of Hawthorn. A non-too-thinly-veiled troll to post a link to that article and start a thread titled "Hubris". The thread starter even misquotes the "old firm from Hawthorn" as though it was Dermie, Dunstall and Dipper who were crapping on about our "greatness", rather than Rohan Connolly and the Herald Sun's headline writer.
You're dead right. Every club whose team wins the flag has their share overly optimistic excitable fans who are guilty of pumping up sustained dominance. I'm sure when Geelong won last year's flag, there were plenty who thought you could go back-to-back and didn't tip the Cats sliding to 7th. I'm sure there are threads on the Geelong board about the continuation of the Geelong dynasty vs the end of an era. It's no different just because you had 5 years of success. It's the same dynamic.kickazz said:
Necromancer Beth
Turn On The Bright Lights
You can see from the article that Wallace, Schwab and Crawford were asked their opinion of Hawthorn's future if they were to win this year's flag. All them attached the proviso, "Should they win on Saturday, blah, blah, blah...." and were referring to things such as complacency and hunger. That was the line of questioning from Rohan Connolly and they gave their opinions. Probably none of them realised other ex-Hawthorn players were also being quoted for the article and were being mischievously cobbled together as though it represented the HAWTHORN VIEWPOINT.
None of these people speak for Hawthorn. They are former players who all work in the media and speak for themselves. You can listen to them give their opinions on any issue in football and none of them represent the "Hawthorn opinion". Just three former player/coaches trying to make a living. Anyone who was actually connected with Hawthorn would've laughed at Connolly and said "Nah mate, one step at a time. We've still gotta win this year's Grand Final."
Rohan Connolly himself filled in the spaces of his COOL STORY with paragraphs like this one:
The trio baulked at suggestions Clarkson's team could build a dynasty capable of rivalling Hawthorn's golden era in the '80s. But if this group wins tomorrow, and then adds one or two premierships in the next three years, it might still be ranked with the greatest teams of the modern era.
These are Rohan Connolly's words. Not the words of ex-Hawthorn people or current Hawthorn people. See the clever way he connects the 1st and 2nd sentences to give the impression it was Wallace, Schwab and Crawford who made that single, bold statement.
The headline writer seems to have focused on this idea of Connolly's and decided to run with this as his theme for the headline. When the headline says HAWTHORN "ON VERGE OF GREATNESS" they are basically quoting the author of the article. Kind of a neat trick to add the quotation marks and make it sound as though Harry Hawthorn himself said these words.
I think it's both funny and sad how hacks in the media can write up an article, grab a few meaningless quotes from ex-players, fill in the gaps with their own rubbish and then have some headline writer slap a provocative catchy title over it and voila, average people with average IQs read it, consume it and have their beliefs shaped by it.
People believe anything they read. People will only see what they wanna see. People are stupid.
There's your hubris
To be fair to Rohan, it wasn't him who wrote that story, it was Matt Murnane.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorn-on-verge-of-greatness-20120927-26o2l.html
- Oct 5, 2008
- 9,239
- 22,651
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Just cos you say it so doesn't make it a fact. In fact it makes it more likely to be crap tbh. Anyone with an ounce of objectivity would agree. No source, no credibility.
- Oct 5, 2008
- 9,239
- 22,651
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Negative. Your supporters. i.e Couldn't let go for 4 years and counting. A reaction I would aspire not to emulate.
- Banned
- #108
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #109
This thread is not about Hawthorn fans. They can be as arrogant as they like about Hawthorn. Most of them have seen plenty of success in their lifetime and can look back on those premierships if they want to.
This is about the way the modern day club carries itself. Each time in the past three years when they have bowed out of the season, rather than recognising the flaws in the way they play and some of their players, it has always been something else that has prevented them from winning the cup, that success at Hawthorn is deserved and they have been cruelly denied by outside factors.
In 2009, when they lost to Essendon, the club threw a tantrum. Yes, Lloyd's hit on Sewell may have affected the outcome. But they were 28 points up just before half time and went on to lose by 17 - a 45 point turn around (sound familiar?). Threatening Essendon players on the ground after the game and through the media was petulance. Turnarounds to the tune of 45 points aren't caused by a single act
In 2010, when they lost Freo, the coach said the rest of the finalists would be glad they were out. Since when have top four sides been afraid of seventh? Let's not forget that in that final Hawthorn did not score a goal for the entire second quarter, and went into half time 1-11 (again, doesn't this sound familiar?). The focus of the club remained on how great Hawthorn were and that the rest of the comp should be thankful Hawthorn were knocked out. Incredibly deluded and ignorant of the significant flaws demonstrated during that game.
In 2011, when they lost to Collingwood, the outgoing president went on to say they should be reigning premiers. They were a good side that year and would have been deserving grand finalists, but both Collingwood and Geelong were better than them for the entire year. Furthermore, a side that was up by 17 points at 3QT, that finished with more scoring shots shouldn't lose. Again, the club seemed ignorant of the apparent flaws that were in their game, and seemingly believed that this year's premiership would just happen. The article earlier last week was just further evidence of that.
Hawthorn were a great team this year and would have been well deserving premiers. But they aren't, and for a very good reason. It is fitting that they lost to a very humble side in Sydney.
This is about the way the modern day club carries itself. Each time in the past three years when they have bowed out of the season, rather than recognising the flaws in the way they play and some of their players, it has always been something else that has prevented them from winning the cup, that success at Hawthorn is deserved and they have been cruelly denied by outside factors.
In 2009, when they lost to Essendon, the club threw a tantrum. Yes, Lloyd's hit on Sewell may have affected the outcome. But they were 28 points up just before half time and went on to lose by 17 - a 45 point turn around (sound familiar?). Threatening Essendon players on the ground after the game and through the media was petulance. Turnarounds to the tune of 45 points aren't caused by a single act
In 2010, when they lost Freo, the coach said the rest of the finalists would be glad they were out. Since when have top four sides been afraid of seventh? Let's not forget that in that final Hawthorn did not score a goal for the entire second quarter, and went into half time 1-11 (again, doesn't this sound familiar?). The focus of the club remained on how great Hawthorn were and that the rest of the comp should be thankful Hawthorn were knocked out. Incredibly deluded and ignorant of the significant flaws demonstrated during that game.
In 2011, when they lost to Collingwood, the outgoing president went on to say they should be reigning premiers. They were a good side that year and would have been deserving grand finalists, but both Collingwood and Geelong were better than them for the entire year. Furthermore, a side that was up by 17 points at 3QT, that finished with more scoring shots shouldn't lose. Again, the club seemed ignorant of the apparent flaws that were in their game, and seemingly believed that this year's premiership would just happen. The article earlier last week was just further evidence of that.
Hawthorn were a great team this year and would have been well deserving premiers. But they aren't, and for a very good reason. It is fitting that they lost to a very humble side in Sydney.
I was referring to speculation in the media at the time that there was a relatively poor turnout from Geelong fans because they were sure they were going to win their next two games, and could rock up to see the Cats play against Hawks in the prelim. A few "Now we've gone and given the Hawks the flag" comments by Geelong supporters on here after the Freo loss seems to have confirmed this line of thinking. Some Geelong fans still think they were a good thing for the flag should they have gotten over that game, despite essentially finishing the 7th best team for the year. To more specifically answer your question, Hawthorn haven't played a final recently at the G against a Perth team. We did draw 10K more than the Cats managed in our final last year against Sydney though. We also managed about 5-6000 more against West Coast at the MCG this year in a home and away game. So Cats couldn't get within 5000 people of our most recent home and away attendence against a Perth team in an elimination final. Needless to say, they thought they had it in the bag. I'm surprised we didn't see any 'Cats 2012 - Elimination Final Winners' tattoos on Geelong fan's arms following the loss. If you want to see Hubris, see Cats pre 2008 GF. Hawthorn were favourites this year, but most people knew they could lose if Sydney played well, which they did. Geelong fans in 2008 couldn't believe they could lose, and understandably tantrums followed when they did.
Believe Me
Debutant
- Oct 1, 2012
- 61
- 82
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
fell to the weight of expectation, a little disappointing eh
- Banned
- #113
This come up recently before the PF. McGuire questioned Kennett's comments, he asked Brereton that if Hawthorn were the best side in it, why was their record against Collingwood and Geelong 0 wins & 5 losses.
Dermie's direct response was when you've won 10 flags in the last 40 years (which is factually incorrect), past records in that season are irrelevant and we always win GF's. This is exactly the type of hubris that cost Hawthorn the game, they have entitlement issues and aren't the club that rode on the back of an unfair zone allocation in the 70's and 80's.
Yet if your club had done what our club had done in the last 5 years well we wouldn't all be laughing at you.
This is worthy of bottling.
I seriously believe Geelong fans got more joy from this year than last.
Glasgow Hawk
Club Legend
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.. Explain to me how you can steal something that Geelong didn't actually have in the first place. With that logic Einstein, Sydney stole the flag from Hawthorn.
- Jun 19, 2006
- 11,872
- 24,272
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Comparing 2008 and 2012 is ridiculous.
You can't look through the teams and say that Hawthorn's team this year has anywhere near the quality of Geelong's in 2008. Not to mention that Geelong were clearly the dominant team for the entire year up until finals, destroying other good teams when they faced them. Hawthorn in comparison had been beaten a number of times by good teams and had a lot of other tight matches.
Geelong through poor player management and an average performance come GF day meant they lost a premiership when, at their best they were clearly the best team that year. Hawthorn did everything right in 08 and deserved the premiership based on a better performance when it counted but it's still a premiership Geelong will look back on and rightly say they only have themselves to blame for losing it.
Hawthorn were nowhere near as dominant this year and it's debatable whether Hawthorn's best was better than Sydney's best. At best it's a premiership they could have won if they'd done some things better. It's not a premiership that based on talent and performances throughout the year they have a right to think they lost rather than Sydney won.
Roadie
Club Legend
- Jul 26, 2010
- 2,110
- 1,237
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Melbourne Victory
Then you are seriously deluded.
Blood Bath
Cancelled
The best thing about the win was prior to the game all the media were talking Hawthorn up and nearly everyone tipping them to win. Nek Minnit
- Apr 3, 2006
- 35,257
- 14,010
- AFL Club
- Geelong
I couldn't care less what you think.
Off The Couch
TheBrownDog
- Oct 4, 2007
- 51,241
- 69,038
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
I don't think he is - the number of threads and posts with Geelong posters enjoying the loss is unbelievable. Totally weird is a hawthorn dedicated thread on your own board - if that doesn't scream insecurity nothing does - downright funny is what it is.
Off The Couch
TheBrownDog
- Oct 4, 2007
- 51,241
- 69,038
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
I thought it was pretty evenly split - the hawks love in the Adelaide game, now that was ridiculous.
Grizzly_82
Premiership Player
- Banned
- #123
I didn't
Not by reading all the posts about from Geelong fans, I would suggest most Hawk supporters are congratulating of Sydney and most Geelong fans are just throwing mud.
- Nov 21, 2010
- 13,902
- 18,573
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Chelsea, Detroit Pistons
EFA. There were 3-4 about Hawthorn and many more about Sydney. I read them for a laugh.
Funnily enough, I don't remember the same on the hawks board after Geelong lost against Freo or Collingwood 2 years ago...
- Status
