Certified Legendary Thread Hawthorn Reserves/Box Hill historical stats thread

[stemline]

Cheers fellas.

Actually, to the end of 2011, the Hawks little league had won 398 games and lost 533. Of the 20-odd thousand kids that have represented the Hawks in the little league, 7 of them have had an effective possession, 105 have had a cry, 162 have refused to stand within 10 metres of their female opponent and zero have had an Inside 50.

Unfortuantely that was all the stats I could get hold of and frankly I find them somewhat dubious.

 

[mianfei]

Things got ugly around this time (if they weren't already). No wins, one draw, 19 losses, 12th place.

This still stands as the longest completely winless season in any grade of VFL/AFL football. The last winless Under-19 season by any club was by Melbourne in 1967, and the last winless Reserves season was not later than 1963, in both cases when there were still 18 games. Bendigo Diggers did go 0-20 in 2001 and 2002, but that was in the “new” VFL descended from the VFA, when Box Hill had had an identical 0-19-1 record in their inaugural 1951 season.

 

[WaxHawk]

Well, no one can say I don't finish what I start. There it is, Hawthorn's 2nds from 1925 to 2011. If I remember, I will add 2012 at the end of the season.

Thanks to those who have contributed, Thaihawk, mrcurly and WaxHawk especially.

To everyone else, thanks for reading.

Great job Stemline. Sorry I couldn't contribute more towards the end - I've been away.
One player I would have mentioned was Hayden Burgiel who unfortunately died on the footy field a couple of years ago.

 

[mianfei]

1960:

Res Hawks v For Ag W / L By
17 v  Nth 12.15 87 3.5 23 Won 64

I had a check, and that must be the lowest score Hawthorn’s Reserves ever held an opponent to until after they became the Box Hill Hawks?

 

[stemline]

I had a check, and that must be the lowest score Hawthorn’s Reserves ever held an opponent to until after they became the Box Hill Hawks?

Correct mate - lowest score conceded until 2008 when Bendigo was held to 2.8 20.

 

[stemline]

1976:
The Hawks Reserves of 1976 got off to a shaky start, losing their first 3 matches. However, somewhere between rounds 5 and 6, two of those losses were over-turned and credited as wins to Hawthorn. So whilst the results after 6 weeks would appear to be 2 wins and 4 losses, the round 6 ladder shows the Hawks as 4 and 2. Hence at the end of the H/A season, the Hawks finished 2nd with a 16 win season despite only winning 14 games. Hopefully the 1976 Footy Records will end up on-line soon as they may have an explanation. None of the online archived newspapers do. At any rate, the Hawks lost the Qualifying Final to North, bounced back to snatch the 1st Semi against Essendon by just 4 points, but fell again to North in the Prelim Final, to finish the season in 3rd place.

Just a quick follow-up for those still holding their breath - the 1976 Records are now online and it is explained that Hawthorn got the points for the rounds 1 and 3 matches as firstly St Kilda, and then Collingwood, played unregistered players.

 

[mianfei]

Just a quick follow-up for those still holding their breath - the 1976 Records are now online and it is explained that Hawthorn got the points for the rounds 1 and 3 matches as firstly St. Kilda, and then Collingwood, played unregistered players.

There was an avalanche of ineligible players in Reserve Grade around that time. Not only the Saints and Magpies, but South Melbourne against Geelong in that opening round, lost match points for playing ineligible players. That was after the Swans had kicked 35-13 (223) with future Brownlow Medallist Teasdale kicking ten.

 

[stemline]

2012:

BH Hawks v		For		Ag	W / L	By	
1 v Sandrignham (StK)	12.11	83	20.17	137	Lost	-54	
2 v BYE							
3 v Werribee (Nth)	14.11	95	7.13	55	Won	40	
4 v Port Melb		8.15	63	14.13	97	Lost	-34
5 v Collingwood		20.10	130	11.9	75	Won	55
6 v Coburg (Rich)	10.12	72	11.19	85	Lost	-13	
7 v Frankston		11.9	75	4.15	39	Won	36
8 v Casey (Melb)	5.15	45	13.19	97	Lost	-52	
9 v Nth Ballarat (Nth)	21.16	142	8.13	61	Won	81	
10 v BYE							
11 v Williamstown (WB)	12.15	87	12.9	81	Won	6	
12 v Bendigo (Ess)	9.14	68	14.16	100	Lost	-32	
13 v BYE							
14 v Nthn Blues (Carl)	19.9	123	10.6	66	Won	57	
15 v Geelong		13.10	88	21.13	139	Lost	-51
16 v Frankston		12.10	82	9.14	68	Won	14
17 v Collingwood	23.15	153	4.13	37	Won	116	
18 v Werribee (Nth)	5.16	46	10.4	64	Lost	-18	
19 v Coburg (Rich)	20.16	136	18.4	112	Won	24	
20 v Port Melb		10.11	71	11.8	74	Lost	-3
21 v BYE							
22 v Bendigo (Ess)	14.10	94	17.11	113	Lost	-19	
EF v Sandringham (StK)	18.10	118	14.4	88	Won	30	
1SF v Geelong		9.8	62	11.10	76	Lost	-14

In a stop-start season, Box Hill struggled to achieve enough consecutive wins to establish any kind of momentum. However not ever losing 2 on the trott allowed them to sneek into the finals in 8th place.

A solid win in the Elimination Final was followed by a loss in the Semi and a final placing of 6th.

* = not Hawthorn listed.

Goals:

Pratt, Daniel*		36
Frank, Amos		26
McCauley, Broc		15
Schneider, Thomas	14	
Lowden, Luke		11
Hill, Bradley		10
Hughes, Danny*		10
Murphy, Xavier*		10
Wanganeen, Derick	10	
Bruce, Cameron		9
Johnson, Will*		9
Pattison, Adam		8
Gunston, Jack		7
Jones, Matt*		7
Andrews, Luke*		6
Bailey, Max		6
Hallahan, Mitch		6
Lock, Marc*		6
Tobin, Liam*		6
Bateman, Chance		5
Ellis, Xavier		5
Gilchrist, Taylor*	5	
Grimley, Sam		5
Muston, Beau*		5
Young, Clinton		3
Cheney, Kyle		2
Fagan, Ben*		2
Kelly, Jordan		2
Northe, Tim*		2
Savage, Shane		2
Thompson, Michael*	2	
Bolton, Jackson*	1	
Cust, Sam*		1
Gordon, Tom*		1
Graham, Dalton*		1
Hodge, Luke		1
Langford, Will		1
Lawlor, Patrick*	1	
Litherland, Angus	1	
Murphy, Thomas		1
Phelps, Guy*		1
Purcell, Tom*		1
Ralph, Joshua*		1
Cassidy, Corey*		1

Best Players:

Player			In best	Our BOG
Andrews, Luke*		9	4	
Cheney, Kyle		9	2	
Murphy, Thomas		9	2	
Schneider, Thomas	9	1		
Duryea, Taylor		6		
Gilham, Stephen		6	3	
Jones, Matt*		6	2	
Pattison, Adam		6	1	
Bruce, Cameron		5		
Hallahan, Mitch		5		
Hill, Bradley		4		
Mirra, David*		4		
Murphy, Xavier*		4	2	
Boumann, Jarrad		3	1	
Hughes, Danny*		3		
Pratt, Daniel*		3		
Thompson, Michael*	3			
Wanganeen, Derick	3			
Young, Clinton		3	1	
Bateman, Chance		2		
Frank, Amos		2	1	
Gilchrist, Taylor*	2			
Lock, Marc*		2		
Lowden, Luke		2		
McCauley, Broc		2		
Bailey, Max		1		
Fagan, Ben*		1		
Gunston, Jack		1		
Johnson, Will*		1		
Kelly, Jordan		1		
Muston, Beau*		1		
Savage, Shane		1		
Tobin, Liam*		1

 

[stemline]

Oops, well... kinda not losing 2 on the trott with the bye in there.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

2013 (so far):

BH Hawks v                For         Ag         W/L    By
1 v Port Melbourne        13.11.89    14.9.93    Lost   -4
2 v Essendon (Ess)        12.12.84    10.13.73   Win    11
3 v Geelong (Gee)         12.12.84    12.17.89   Lost   -5
4 v Coburg (Rich)         18.15.123   13.17.95   Win    28
5 v Bendigo               20.15.135   7.6.48     Win    87
6 v Casey Scorpions (Mel) 19.12.126   9.12.66    Win    60
7 v North Ballarat (NM)   17.12.114   14.7.91    Win    23
8 v Frankston             18.23.131   8.7.55     Win    76
9 BYE

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Goalkickers for 2013 so far:

Wood, Brandon*       11
Tobin, Liam*         10
Lowden, Luke          9
Frank, Amos           9
Savage, Shane         8
Gordon, Tom*          7
Ceglar, Jonathan      7
Lawlor, Patrick*      7
Lock, Marc*           6
Spangher, Matt        5
Iles, Sam*            5
Hallahan, Mitch       5
Wanganeen, Derick     5
Simpkin, Jonathan     4
Langford, Will        4
Osborne, Michael      3
Murphy, Xavier*       3
Anderson, Jed         3
Northe, Matt*         3
Ellis, Xavier         3
Cassidy, Corey*       2
Lake, Brian           1
O'Brien, Tim          1
Collins, Sam*         1
Kelly, Jordan         1

Number of times a player is named amongst the "best players":

Mirra, David*       6
Iles, Sam*          5
Hallahan, Mitch     5
Savage, Shane       4
Spangher, Matt      3
Cheney, Kyle        3
Simpkin, Jonathan   3
Langford, Will      3
Lock, Marc*         3
Lowden, Luke        2
Osborne, Michael    2
Tobin, Liam*        2
Pratt, Daniel*      2
Litherland, Angus   2
Wood, Brandon*      1
Duryea, Taylor      1
Gordon, Tom*        1
Lake, Brian         1
Ceglar, Jonathan    1
Lawlor, Patrick*    1
Murphy, Xavier*     1
Wanganeen, Derick   1
Kelly, Jordan       1
Ellis, Xavier       1

* = Box Hill-listed player.

 

[mianfei]

Peter Curran joined the Hawks in 1982, the mobile tall forward having a very strong finish to the Reserves season, being named among the best players on the ground in the last few rounds and the finals. In the first four rounds of 1983 he kicked 5, 9, 6 and 4 goals, and was given his senior debut in round 5. He kicked 2 on debut, and 1 the following week before being dropped. He managed one more senior game later in the season but booted 51 for the '83 season in the Reserves. In 1984 he arrived as a senior player, kicking 46 goals. He would go on to play 109 games for Hawthorn, and kick 196 goals. He played in four Grand Finals, including the Premierships of 1986 and 1989, missing the 1988 Grand Final win through injury. He won the Most Courageous Player Award in 1986, and the Best Clubman Award in 1988. He played in the Night Flags of 1985 and 1986.

Peter Curran played only seven senior games in 1985, and I wondered for a long time why he was not in the “day” Grand Final team before I discovered that. What I have read about Curran suggests than he could have been one of Hawthorn’s greats had he been more consistent - he was one of the few “might have beens” of Hawthorn’s golden era.

As an example, Curran was in the reserves for most of the autumn of 1989, then played some of his best football ever when recalled in Round 10: in fact in this period Curran was a more generally effective support for Jason Dunstall than Brereton. Yet, after the excellent second half of 1989, he played only three senior games in 1990 for two goals and was discarded for 1991.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Goalkickers for 2013 so far:

Wood, Brandon*      11
Tobin, Liam*        10
Lowden, Luke          9
Frank, Amos          9
Savage, Shane        8
Gordon, Tom*          7
Ceglar, Jonathan      7
Lawlor, Patrick*      7
Lock, Marc*          6
Spangher, Matt        5
Iles, Sam*            5
Hallahan, Mitch      5
Wanganeen, Derick    5
Simpkin, Jonathan    4
Langford, Will        4
Osborne, Michael      3
Murphy, Xavier*      3
Anderson, Jed        3
Northe, Matt*        3
Ellis, Xavier        3
Cassidy, Corey*      2
Lake, Brian          1
O'Brien, Tim          1
Collins, Sam*        1
Kelly, Jordan        1

Number of times a player is named amongst the "best players":

Mirra, David*      6
Iles, Sam*          5
Hallahan, Mitch    5
Savage, Shane      4
Spangher, Matt      3
Cheney, Kyle        3
Simpkin, Jonathan  3
Langford, Will      3
Lock, Marc*        3
Lowden, Luke        2
Osborne, Michael    2
Tobin, Liam*        2
Pratt, Daniel*      2
Litherland, Angus  2
Wood, Brandon*      1
Duryea, Taylor      1
Gordon, Tom*        1
Lake, Brian        1
Ceglar, Jonathan    1
Lawlor, Patrick*    1
Murphy, Xavier*    1
Wanganeen, Derick  1
Kelly, Jordan      1
Ellis, Xavier      1

* = Box Hill-listed player.

No Grimley?

 

[stemline]

Grimmers should have 6 goals I reckon.

Thanks DF, for keeping this going.

 

[stemline]

Peter Curran played only seven senior games in 1985, and I wondered for a long time why he was not in the “day” Grand Final team before I discovered that. What I have read about Curran suggests than he could have been one of Hawthorn’s greats had he been more consistent - he was one of the few “might have beens” of Hawthorn’s golden era.

As an example, Curran was in the reserves for most of the autumn of 1989, then played some of his bets football even when recalled in Round 10: in fact in this period Curran was a more generally effective support for Jason Dunstall than Brereton. Yet, after the excellent second half of 1989, he played only three senior games in 1990 for two goals and was discarded for 1991.

Yep, PC had a bad case of 2nd year blues. Great player, mobile, great hands, courageous, lovely stab pass. Could really catch fire, as showcased in a last quarter against Carlton in '84 where he kicked 5 goals in 10 minutes or something. Big game player too, had a couple of outstanding finals series.

From memory, his last couple of years at Hawthorn were dogged by a knee problem.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

No Grimley?

Grimmers should have 6 goals I reckon.

Thanks DF, for keeping this going.

Yep, forgot to include Grimley in the list. I'm positive, though, that he hasn't been named amongst Box Hill's best players this season so far.

No problems, stemline. You did all the hard work!

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

I have not posted in this thread, possibly because I am awestruck.

Stemline, your work here is magnificent. The historical data and subsequent discussion is priceless.

 

[stemline]

Thanks mate!

 

[stemline]

For completeness sake:
2013:

BH Hawks v		For		Ag		W / L	By
1 v Port Melb		13.11	89	14.9	93	Lost	-4
2 v Essendon		12.12	84	10.13	73	Won	11
3 v Geelong		12.12	84	12.17	89	Lost	-5
4 v Coburg (Rich)	18.15	123	13.17	95	Won	28	
5 v Bendigo		20.15	135	7.6	48	Won	87
6 v Casey (Melb)	19.12	126	9.12	66	Won	60	
7 v Nth Ballarat (Nth)	17.12	114	14.7	91	Won	23	
8 v Frankston		18.23	131	8.7	55	Won	76
10 v Sandringham (StK)	12.17	89	12.11	83	Won	6	
11 v Werribee (Nth)	17.13	115	10.12	72	Won	43	
12 v Williamstown (WB)	13.8	86	16.15	111	Lost	-25	
13 v Collingwood	11.14	80	12.15	87	Lost	-7	
14 v Nthn Blues (Carl)	6.7	43	9.5	59	Lost	-16	
15 v Port Melb		17.13	115	15.10	100	Won	15
16 v Bendigo		11.18	84	7.5	47	Won	37
17 v Essendon		15.21	111	5.9	39	Won	72
18 v Coburg (Rich)	20.14	134	5.18	48	Won	86	
19 v Casey (Melb)	10.12	72	9.16	70	Won	2	
QF v Williamstown (WB)	13.8	86	7.14	56	Won	30	
PF v Werribee (Nth)	22.12	144	14.8	92	Won	52	
GF v Geelong		14.15	99	11.12	78	Won	21

A glorious season. Geelong had barely dropped a game and were unbackable favourites. But Box Hill showed them up with one of the most committed displays of desperation and will-to-win football ever seen.

The Premierhsip side:

2013 VFL Grand Final Side:
B:  A.Litherland,  M.Spangher,  D.Mirra
HB: D.Wanganeen,  K.Cheney,  T.Duryea
C:  M.Lock,  M.Osborne,  S.Iles
HF:  J.Anderson,  S.Savage,  J.Simpkin
F:  J.Ceglar,  S.Grimley,  B.Retzlaff
Foll:  L.Lowden,  M.Hallahan
Rv:  W.Langford
Int:  J.Kelly,  T.O'Brien,  L.Tobin,  X.Murphy,  R.Exon

Capt - David Mirra (Daniel Pratt injured)
Coach - Damian Carroll
Norm Goss Medalist - Jonathon Simpkin

J.J.Liston Trophy - Mitch Hallahan

2013 VFL Grand Final:						
BOX HILL	7.2	9.4	12.10	14.15	(99)	
GEELONG		4.3	7.6	7.7	11.12	(78)
Goals:  Grimley 3,  Murphy 2,  Osborne 2,  Simpkin 2,  Hallahan 1,  Iles 1,  Lowden 1,  Retzlaff 1,  Savage 1.	
Best:  Simpkin,  Spangher,  Iles,  Langford,  Cheney,  Wanganeen.

* = Not Hawthorn listed

Goalkickers:

Grimley, Sam		28
Tobin, Liam*		22
Lowden, Luke		17
Savage, Shane		14
Ceglar, Jonathon	13	
Iles, Sam*		13
Retzlaff, Bryce*	13	
Hallahan, Mitch		12
O'Brien, Tim		12
Osborne, Michael	12	
Wood, Brandon*		12
Anderson, Jed		11
Lock, Marc*		11
Simpkin, Jonathan	11	
Lawlor, Patrick*	10	
Murphy, Xavier*		10
Spangher, Matthew	10	
Wanganeen, Derick	10	
Frank, Amos		9
Gordan, Thomas*		9
Northe, Matthew*	9	
Langford, Will		8
Cust, Sam*		6
Ellis, Xavier		4
Graham, Dalton*		4
Kelly, Jordan		3
O'Donnell, Mitchell*	3	
Cassidy, Corey*		2
Pratt, Daniel*		2
Weekes, Mark*		2
Cheney, Kyle		1
Collins, Sam*		1
Exon, Ryan*		1
Harvey, Brad*		1
Johnson, Will*		1
Lake, Brian		1
Post, Kalem*		1
Shiels, Liam		1

Best Players

Players			In best	Our BOG
Cheney, Kyle		14	4	
Spangher, Matthew	10	2		
Hallahan, Mitch		9	1	
Mirra, David*		8	2	
Iles, Sam*		8	1	
Tobin, Liam*		7	1	
Langford, Will		6	1	
Litherland, Angus	6	1		
Simpkin, Jonathan	6	1		
Lowden, Luke		6		
Wanganeen, Derick	5	1		
Savage, Shane		4	2	
Kelly, Jordan		4	1	
Ceglar, Jonathon	4			
Lock, Marc*		4		
Anderson, Jed		3	1	
Ellis, Xavier		3		
Osborne, Michael	3			
O'Donnell, Mitchell*	2	1		
Cust, Sam*		2		
Gordon, Thomas*		2		
Pratt, Daniel*		2		
Murphy, Xavier*		1	1	
Duryea, Taylor		1		
Grimley, Sam		1		
Lake, Brian		1		
Lawlor, Patrick*	1			
Northe, Matthew*	1			
Retzlaff, Bryce*	1			
Shiels, Liam		1

 

[mianfei]

Yep, PC had a bad case of 2nd year blues. Great player, mobile, great hands, courageous, lovely stab pass. Could really catch fire, as showcased in a last quarter against Carlton in '84 where he kicked 5 goals in 10 minutes or something. Big game player too, had a couple of outstanding finals series.

From memory, his last couple of years at Hawthorn were dogged by a knee problem.

That “knee problem” must apply as far back as 1988, because Curran did not play that season after Round 20, nor between Rounds 8 and 14. It’s perhaps because Hawthorn’s three losses during 1988 were when he was playing that he could not get beyond the reserves when fit during early 1989, but his 24 possessions in the wet against Brisbane established himself as Dunstall’s best supporter in attack for the rest of that season.

 

[Thaihawk]

Thanks to all contributors for a great, (at times bringing back memories to my fading mamory bank) read. From a Hawthorn stalwart from the forties.

 

[stemline]

Yep, he missed the 88 GF with a knee. Sat on the bench and just before the first siren Derm jogged all the way over to him (with opponent in tow) and tagged hands - Derm said it was so PC knew he was out there with him. He was definitely rated by Hawthorn, certainly never dropped when fully fit. Reckon he had an op post-88 that saw him come back through the ressies early 89.

 

[stemline]

Thanks Thaihawk

 

[stemline]

For a little something extra, here's Hawthorn's U19 seasons summarised:

Year		Finished	Top	Finals	Played	Won	Lost	Draw	
1946	7	of	7	4	No	12	1	11	0
1947	8	of	11	4	No	15	6	9	0
1948	9	of	12	4	No	17	5	11	1
1949	11	of	11	4	No	14	2	12	0
1950	9	of	12	4	No	16	4	12	0
1951	11	of	12	4	No	15	2	13	0
1952	11	of	12	4	No	14	3	11	0
1953	11	of	12	4	No	16	4	12	0
1954	12	of	12	4	No	16	1	14	1
1955	10	of	12	4	No	16	4	12	0
1956	11	of	12	4	No	16	3	13	0
1957	5	of	12	4	No	16	11	5	0
1958	12	of	12	4	No	16	1	15	0
1959	5	of	12	4	No	16	9	7	0
1960	11	of	12	4	No	16	4	11	1
1961	10	of	12	4	No	16	5	11	0
1962	11	of	12	4	No	18	5	13	0
1963	7	of	12	4	No	18	9	9	0
1964	7	of	12	4	No	18	9	9	0
1965	10	of	12	4	No	18	6	12	0
1966	5	of	12	4	No	18	9	9	0
1967	11	of	12	4	No	18	5	13	0
1968	10	of	12	4	No	20	4	16	0
1969	2	of	12	4	Yes	23	17	5	1
1970	3	of	12	4	Yes	23	17	6	0
1971	9	of	12	4	No	22	8	13	1
1972	1	of	12	5	Yes	26	19	7	0
1973	3	of	12	5	Yes	25	17	8	0
1974	4	of	12	5	Yes	24	15	9	0
1975	7	of	12	5	No	22	10	12	0
1976	3	of	12	5	Yes	25	16	9	0
1977	5	of	12	5	Yes	22	11	11	0
1978	6	of	12	5	No	22	12	10	0
1979	9	of	12	5	No	22	8	13	1
1980	9	of	12	5	No	22	8	13	1
1981	4	of	12	5	Yes	24	14	10	0
1982	8	of	12	5	No	22	11	10	1
1983	9	of	12	5	No	22	6	16	0
1984	4	of	12	5	Yes	24	15	9	0
1985	3	of	12	5	Yes	25	17	8	0
1986	7	of	11	5	No	20	10	10	0
1987	8	of	11	5	No	20	8	12	0
1988	10	of	11	5	No	20	6	14	0
1989	12	of	12	5	No	22	5	17	0
1990	5	of	12	5	Yes	23	14	9	0
1991	5	of	12	6	Yes	23	16	7	0
									
Total	7.6	of	11.8		12/46	898	392	498	8

I have all the match scores from 1949 onwards... but I'll leave it at this for now.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

2014 (so far):

Rd   Hawks v		For		Ag		W / L	By
15 v Williamstown       13.17.95        11.16.82          W     +13
1  v Werribee Tigers    12.11.83        7.16.58           W     +25
2  v Sandringham        15.14.104       14.20.104         D      0
3  v Geelong Cats       17.20.122       14.11.95          W     +27
4  v Coburg             17.19.121       10.9.69           W     +52
5  v Frankston          22.10.142       5.6.36            W     +106
6  v BYE
7  v Richmond Tigers    13.11.89        8.12.60           W     +29
8  v Port Melbourne     13.14.92        15.9.99           L     -7