NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Just as I thought you are conflating two completely separate things.

Egan did not ask the coaches for their side of the story, because that was never part of his remit.

Egan was asked to go and interview the ex-players of their experiences while at Hawthorn to get clarity around the Rioli families claims that were published in the AGE.

He did not block them. He did not make demands of them. He had nothing to do with the AFL investigation or the planned mediation sessions that the coaches refused to be a part of.

Making recommendations and trying to get his nose in the trough as much as possible wasn't part of his remit but here we are.

 

[QuietB]

No

Egan is telling lies with a incomplete and fraudulent investigation.

Based on what we know Egan prepared a report that provided opportunities for Egan to feather his own nest.

How the hell Hawthorn picked him to do it I will never know.

 

[sr36]

You have 1 already. Another one for you is Heston Russell suing ABC due to a report of an execution in Afghanistan by an ABC journalist when he wasn’t even there.

Reporting of a “vigilante “ mob of white people in Alice Springs where a meeting was held to address the rampant crime rate.

Reporting of the covid virus developing in the “wet markets” of Wuhan where it has been man made in a lab. Then bagging Sharri Markson for her reporting on it

Massive straw clutch there. And out of curiosity, why have you put "wet markets" in quotation marks?

 

[Big_Birdy]

I haven't trawled through the thread, but in regard to the recent charge against Egan:

The players have gone to the Human Rights Committee have they not? Egan's report really didn't come to anything excluding bringing alleged issues to light. But if one thinks his report is tainted it will become pretty irrelevant after any HRC investigation occurs (if that occurs). That will supersede it.

So plenty of water to go under the bridge in this.

 

[perplexed]

I haven't trawled through the thread, but in regard to the recent charge against Egan:

The players have gone to the Human Rights Committee have they not? Egan's report really didn't come to anything excluding bringing alleged issues to light. But if one thinks his report is tainted it will become pretty irrelevant after any HRC investigation occurs (if that occurs). That will supersede it.

So plenty of water to go under the bridge in this.

We don't even know the extent to which the claims in the report and complaints to the HRC overlap. There could be worse stuff to come out that we haven't yet heard about. Much of the current debate is a result of people nailing their colours to the mast as soon as the story broke and not being able to shift as new information comes out.

 

[JackOutback]

• Use of the phrase "First Nations" when he knew that the public would assume that he was referring to Indigenous Australians only. While not dishonest, this omission is disingenuous in the extreme and does not give us suitable context surrounding the allegations.

Today I learned using language accurately is disingenuous.

 

[Intothewind]

When Egan did his investigation/report he listened without challenging or seeking context. Which is exactly as he should have done in the circumstances.

When Jackson followed up and did exactly the same thing, he somehow missed the whole point of being a journalist.

I have been impressed with Jackson's other stories over the years, and maybe it was because he was under pressure to release in Grand Final week, but he let himself down here.

Anyway, Egan and Jackson are not relevant to the forthcoming events at the HRC so I'm not sure why they are discussed in here so much.

 

[Sharaz Jek]

Today I learned using language accurately is disingenuous.

While ostensibly accurate, certain language can still obfuscate, hide and otherwise avoid less convenient truths.

See: every single interview with a politician.

This Paxman interview is the perfect example.

 

[perplexed]

When Egan did his investigation/report he listened without challenging or seeking context. Which is exactly as he should have done in the circumstances.

When Jackson followed up and did exactly the same thing, he somehow missed the whole point of being a journalist.

I have been impressed with Jackson's other stories over the years, and maybe it was because he was under pressure to release in Grand Final week, but he let himself down here.

Anyway, Egan and Jackson are not relevant to the forthcoming events at the HRC so I'm not sure why they are discussed in here so much.

Whilst they aren't relevant to the HRC, their actions are still causing fallout. I know many North supporters are interested in Jackson and Egan because between them, the AFL and Hawthorn they have contributed to our season going off the rails.......again.

 

[sr36]

Today I learned using language accurately is disingenuous.

What? - disingenuity is generally accurate. It's called dishonest if you mislead by being intentionally inaccaruate. It's called disingenous if you're accurate but intentionally misleading.

P.S. I don't think Jackson was disingenuous.

 

[blackshadow]

I learned today that the ABC don’t give a flying fundamental about fact checking what their journalists report.

'It's not my job': ABC investigations boss admits she didn't check stories alleging war crimes

The head of ABC's investigations unit Jo Puccini says she did not check the source material that led to stories about allegations of a war crime because it was not her job and she trusted the journalist.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Chief]

How about a play about Russell Jackson?

A tale told by an idiot, signifying nothing.

Clever.

 

[r_boy]

When is the human rights commission due to lift a finger?

 

[The 747]

Did the AFL forget about Hawthorn's penalty?

 

[HairyO]

Today I learned using language accurately is disingenuous.

The brief was to look in to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. He then decided to include non Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders without indicating as such.

The report even details the requirements, specifically setting out what he was doing. But he chose to make no reference of drifting away from the scope.

Disingenuous is being nice. He failed to do what he was asked to do, changed the goal of the report and never mentioned it to the club during or after.

 

[Rob R]

Did the AFL forget about Hawthorn's penalty?

No case to answer, if anything Hawks, North and Lions will be getting compensation from the AFL for their mismanagement.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The 747]

No case to answer, if anything Hawks, North and Lions will be getting compensation from the AFL for their mismanagement.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Was that what the AFL determined? I am asking because I don't know FYI. I heard Glllon talk sternly about it a while back and wondered what came of that.

 

[Chief]

Pretty standard for someone working at “their” ABC to not do any investigation and just write rubbish to suit their own narrative

The ABC surveys as the most trusted news organisation in the country.

 

[Chief]

Egan's report really didn't come to anything excluding bringing alleged issues to light.

As far as I know, from the moment it went to the AFL, the report was just the starting point for a full investigation. As time passed it ceased to be current or relevant to the process.

The coaches have been given ample opportunity to respond. Apart from responses via press release they have not done so in an official capacity.

Now, what do we trust more? A press release? Or questions answered and statements made under oath or in front of a panel with legal powers?

This "report is tainted so the whole process is invalid" chant does not square with reality.

 

[Chadwiko]

Two things can be simultaneously true:

• The ABC is a trustworthy and respectable news organisation
• The Russell Jackson report was rushed, flawed, and poorly handled

 

[Chief]

If I were a coach with something to hide, I would battle to make sure the Egan report and Jackson article were the only things for people to rely on. Then play up any inconsistencies, omissions, or the charges against Egan, criticisms of the Jackson story by other journalists and so on.

You have no gain to make by joining the official investigation. Indeed you are better off getting it stopped however you can.

Also, loudly tell everyone that your story will be told in the right time and place. Then never tell your story and accuse anyone who asks of bringing up the past and point out how the initial report is suspect anyway.

 

[Disco Dew]

If I were a coach with something to hide, I would battle to make sure the Egan report and Jackson article were the only things for people to rely on. Then play up any inconsistencies, omissions, or the charges against Egan, criticisms of the Jackson story by other journalists and so on.

You have no gain to make by joining the official investigation. Indeed you are better off getting it stopped however you can.

Also, loudly tell everyone that your story will be told in the right time and place. Then never tell your story and accuse anyone who asks of bringing up the past and point out how the initial report is suspect anyway.

All irrelevant now anyway isn’t it with the players going to the HRC?

 

[perplexed]

As far as I know, from the moment it went to the AFL, the report was just the starting point for a full investigation. As time passed it ceased to be current or relevant to the process.

The coaches have been given ample opportunity to respond. Apart from responses via press release they have not done so in an official capacity.

Now, what do we trust more? A press release? Or questions answered and statements made under oath or in front of a panel with legal powers?

This "report is tainted so the whole process is invalid" chant does not square with reality.

In summary, you want some sort of formal denial of allegations that haven't been formally made. Why and how would someone do that?

You say that the report is no longer relevant yet you still seem to expect the coaches to formally respond to it.

 

[Chief]

All irrelevant now anyway isn’t it with the players going to the HRC?

That would be the next hurdle. If I was a coach with something to hide. Not that any of them are.

 

[Elixuh]

If I were a coach with something to hide, I would battle to make sure the Egan report and Jackson article were the only things for people to rely on. Then play up any inconsistencies, omissions, or the charges against Egan, criticisms of the Jackson story by other journalists and so on.

You have no gain to make by joining the official investigation. Indeed you are better off getting it stopped however you can.

Also, loudly tell everyone that your story will be told in the right time and place. Then never tell your story and accuse anyone who asks of bringing up the past and point out how the initial report is suspect anyway.

Such complex mental gymnastics going on here when it is plain to anyone that the conduct of the parties involved has been aimed at getting this investigated, heard and resolved in a competent forum.

Using your line of reasoning the coaches would be fighting tooth and nail not to have this go to the HRC or a court and would much prefer it be resolved by the AFL official investigation.

Your reasoning is contradictory sentence by sentence lol.