You need to get some quality kids in. See if Port will pay overs to replace Butters with him, if he leaves. With decent ball users in Rozee and JHF next to Walsh, he may become useful if he is simply told to never kick the football again.
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Opinion Has this Carlton list already peaked?
- Thread starter GC2015
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- Mar 25, 2019
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What great advice. I can see you're really interested in proper discussion!
His kicking is a direct route for opposition scoring chains. Surely you can see this. If he had elite ball users to handball too, it'd be a much smarter use of his 25 touches.
You can actually see his forwards cringing when he gets the ball and looks inside 50.
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Carlton were the number 1 score differential team from stoppage in 2023. You don't get that just by having two "excellent key forwards". Especially considering McKay didn't trouble the score sheet much that year anyway due to accuracy issues. And also you don't get that way unless your midfield is competent not only offensively but defensively as well.
On 2024 and the start of 2025 I have already discussed what I think the problem is and imo it's much more complex then "the midfielders can't kick".
Also interesting that McKay is now considered "excellent" as if I remember correctly in our last conversation about him you were downplaying his impact on the team using goals + goal assists as your metric?
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They ranked 11th on score from turnover differential 2022-2023 though. Midfielders racking up a million low quality disposals contributed to that. They fixed that in 2024 but at the expense of score from stoppage differential dominance. Poor ball users and decision makers in midfield is absolutely a glaring issue holding them back.
I never said McKay was poor. I said his goal assists numbers were low for a roaming CHF who had a dominant full forward in Curnow to kick to. Suggesting a lack of synergy - how much were they actually creating for each other? Nice attempt to change the topic though.
Gotta ask how much has the decision to trade two first rounders for pick 3 over Dan Houston effected the older playing group.
Voss was all in on Houston yet lost out to list management who decided to look much further in to the future. Is it a list manager who lacks faith in the current senior group. And what does this leave those senior players thinking with decisions like this. These blokes want to win now.
Voss was all in on Houston yet lost out to list management who decided to look much further in to the future. Is it a list manager who lacks faith in the current senior group. And what does this leave those senior players thinking with decisions like this. These blokes want to win now.
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I never said you said McKay was poor. There is a big gap between poor and excellent. And no where did I change the topic. I had already responded to your comment about the midfield very clearly in my post.
So where did I say he was less than excellent? A comment on goal assist numbers and his synergy with Curnow equated to that, did it?
Come on, be better than that.
Last night V Collingwood :
Goals : 1
Behinds : 1
Kicks : 7
Handball : 1
Marks : 3
Tackles : 0
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You have literally just posted Walsh should never kick the ball again and you are telling me to be better. Please.
I’m backing that Ward will be part of a much better/effective midfield group than what Carlton have in a side that will be contending over the next 5-10 years ….. while Carlton are more than likely to go through another rebuild.
I’ve said it before and will say it again which could be difficult for Carlton fans to understand but Sam has said it publicly a number of times that he prefers seeing several players getting it 20 times each week than relying on a couple of players getting it 30 times. I think that typifies the difference between Carlton and the best teams right there. The reliance on a few in a team sport is so amateurish in modern AFL times.
I don’t give a crap how Walsh goes or whether you think that Ward would get a game at Carlton which I comfortably think he would. Heck if Hawks won it this year, Wardy plays his role well and Blues miss the 8 I reckon you would still be on here arguing that he wouldn’t get a game at Carlton!
In other words, I didn't ever say McKay was less than excellent but you thought you'd make a snide comment anyway.
Walsh is a truly terrible kick of the footy. Both in terms of where he decides to kick it and how he executes it. If you think I need to "do better" with this conclusion, I advise you to try opening both eyes when you watch Carlton games.
Walsh is like a temu brayshaw these days.
Of course wasn’t always like this
He was tracking ok there for awhile but like every half decent player with a bit of talent ,be it traded in or in particularly drafted down to princess park , they all end up the same ….
“Carltoned”
Seriously go through the list just off the top my head
- Walsh, cerra, McGovern, Williams ,acres , hollands,stocker,Motlop,saad,
Carroll,binns ,Cowan all came to Carlton has high priced recruits or 1st to 2nd rd draft picks that either started off their careers at princess park good enough but inevitably are now just trending down, some in an alarming way
Can really only think of tdk, hewett and Boyd(outside top 10 picks and traded ins) who’ve progressed whilst loitering round lygon street
Oh and while I’m at it as of right now
Ward >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Walsh
Of course wasn’t always like this
He was tracking ok there for awhile but like every half decent player with a bit of talent ,be it traded in or in particularly drafted down to princess park , they all end up the same ….
“Carltoned”
Seriously go through the list just off the top my head
- Walsh, cerra, McGovern, Williams ,acres , hollands,stocker,Motlop,saad,
Carroll,binns ,Cowan all came to Carlton has high priced recruits or 1st to 2nd rd draft picks that either started off their careers at princess park good enough but inevitably are now just trending down, some in an alarming way
Can really only think of tdk, hewett and Boyd(outside top 10 picks and traded ins) who’ve progressed whilst loitering round lygon street
Oh and while I’m at it as of right now
Ward >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Walsh
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You said McKay was having an overrated season from memory which is an odd comment for someone that you think is playing at an excellent level and covering up all these issues with the midfield.
And yes saying someone should never kick the ball again is ridiculous.
I can't wait until next off season when they have renewed hope and share footywire comparisons as evidence as to why all their players are better than nominated opposition players.
Sidebottom v. Acres anyone?
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Odd person to reply to about this considering they also agreed that Acres was better than Sidebottom when the discussion was had
These were my thoughts.
"McKay is having a good year but after an amazing start I'm now wondering if his season is being overrated a little.
2.8 goals/assists a game in a forward line that really only kicks it to two players. 14 disposals a game and 4 goal assists for the season as a CHF. His goal kicking has improved (mostly).
But as a comparison, Jeremy Cameron (likely not AA at this stage) is going at 3.2 goals/assists a game. 18 disposals a game and 9 goal assists for the season, having played a game less and having his KPF team mate veer into cooked territory. He's just been a little more erratic in front of goal."
"You might not be old fashioned, but simply off the mark as far as what the AA selectors prefer for selecting key forwards.
Combined goals/goal assists and score involvements are fairly high up there, as eth-dog informed us.
Coaches votes are another good guide (the key forward with the most coaches votes has been selected each of the past 5 seasons, I couldn't be bothered looking further - and Cameron is well in front so far this season).
But yeah you're right, maybe they will decide some extra marks, contested possessions and tackles are what they want in the second/third key forwards selected. I wouldn't be surprised at all if McKay is picked. For scoreboard impact and general involvement (disposals), Cameron is ahead as of now, that's all."
Amazing start, good season - McKay at his best is clearly excellent, but I thought Cameron was more influential in 2024, that's all. Which was a very high bar. He was the best CHF in the comp.
Do some critical analysis on those games and come back to us.
Freo dissentgate
Pies dead rubber
Port Adelaide reserves team in Melbourne
Soft draw
Petracca goal that wasn't paid
Sydney and Melbourne kicking themselves out of the finals.
Carlton are just a middle of the road footy team, who have regressed in the off season as other teams around them have materially improved their lists.
Careful. This poster also sends these demands in private messages and then screams that he will get you banned if you do not oblige. Quite unhinged at the moment.
The last sentence...you have confessed to being ridiculous to make a point before. It's called hyperbole. It is a very emphatic way of saying Walsh is a terrible kick.
Win/loss and % over multiple seasons gives a better idea of where a given team is really at - more so than winning an elimination and semi final one season.
This Carlton squad are right around 50% win/loss over the last 3 and a bit seasons. They are not slowly tracking up like we are seeing with Hawthorn.
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Carlton made a PF they showed they were amongst the best teams in the comp in 2023. H+A wins are irrelevant once you get into finals.
