List Mgmt. Has the list management done a good job?

[Cleric]

Do you think the clubs list managers have done a good job over the last 5 or 6 years?
I think that they have.
We have attracted a number of excellent players to come to the club.
Rankine, Dawson, Hinge, Keays and Keane is a pretty good start. We went through a period where we couldn't attract any good players to come home to SA.
On top of this we have more possibilities on the horizon like Luko and ANB.

The targeting of SA talent has improved. Without a doubt there is massive benefits with us having a bigger core of quality SA players, and players who supported the club growing up.

Then we have the drafting.
While our form line has been all over the place, I put that more down to injuries and coaching.
Let's look at the young talent we have on the list now.
Our forwards consist of Thilthorpe, Fog, Rankine, Roch, Cook, Keays, Pedler.
That's alot to look forward to there, and most scribes say it's one of the best forward lines in the AFL.

Our backline is very good also. Butts, Keane, Nankervis, Michaelanny, Murray, Hinge, Hamill, Worrell, Milera, Bond, Curtin and Borlase is a very good group of backs to play with.

The two weakest areas of our list are rucks and mids.
Rucks arnt something you draft early on, and you generally pick them up from state leagues and in trades.

The midfield, while one of a weakest groups, still has a number of players who are going to be good.
Dowling, Soligo, Dawson, Scholl, Taylor, Edwards and Jones. Add to that, midfield rotations from Rankine, Rochele and Curtin as well.

All in all, we are just a couple of additions away from our next premiership window.
If we get a good mid like Draper in the draft, and maybe ANB and Luko in the trade season, and Welsh as a F/S, we are on our way.

I think we are lacking in the coaching department more than list management.

What say ye?

 

[WeeBlake]

For the last five years:

Trading - very good
No rucks - bad
Drafting - jury still out on many of them, but I’d say bare pass overall, given the high picks we’ve had.

 

[Billy_01]

2017-2019 trade periods/drafts were horrendous it’s set us back YEARS, doesn’t get talked about enough. Josh Worrel was the only hit from about 10 picks and he’s only played 30 odd games because of shit management.

 

[Danger in Texas]

2017-2019 trade periods/drafts were horrendous it’s set us back YEARS, doesn’t get talked about enough. Josh Worrel was the only hit from about 10 picks and he’s only played 30 odd games because of shit management.

Fogarty, Sholl and Butts too, but yeah that period is grim reading. Only one of the six guys we recruited from other clubs during that period is still on our list, too (Keays)

 

[hugecannon]

Too many holes in the list - midfield, ruck, small forwards.

I think this is part recruitment and part drafting/development.

We keep drafting very similar type of mids then put them into other roles outside the middle. Sometimes it works - Bond looks likely. Often, it doesn’t - McHenry, and too many others to list.

I think there’s been improvement, but now we’re being held back by inept
Coaching more than anything else.

 

[adelaidecrows]

For the last five years:

Trading - very good
No rucks - bad
Drafting - jury still out on many of them, but I’d say bare pass overall, given the high picks we’ve had.

It smacks of Nicks input all over it. I know people think list managers are their own department but they are not going to build a playing list with players the coach isn't interested in playing. So of course the coach gets a big say in the makeup of the list.

1. No Rucks has Nicks all over it. It would be based around the philosophy of all tall players can ruck and his obsession with small players. As highlighted by our glut of small to medium sized players.

2. Trading has been a C. Yes I am aware of Dawson and Rankine. But both those players wanted to come back to SA. Hardly a feat of power to trade a pick for them. Burgess was nothing more than a panic buy due to injuries to bigs.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Too many holes in the list - midfield, ruck, small forwards.

I think this is part recruitment and part drafting/development.

We keep drafting very similar type of mids then put them into other roles outside the middle. Sometimes it works - Bond looks likely. Often, it doesn’t - McHenry, and too many others to list.

I think there’s been improvement, but now we’re being held back by inept
Coaching more than anything else.

We have holes but some of them can be filled by the right trades. Great sides balance out their list with trades and draft picks to fill holes.

 

[Samcro24]

It’s a fail because it’s taken an eternity to address the midfield. And it’s still a patchwork job.

Also blew the super draft spectacularly.

 

[Pugsley]

 

[GreyCrow]

I'm a no as well

For various reasons but how we assess talent ie hold onto deadwood too long, how we utilise the MSD and ( to me ) confusion over what type of player we target

I think our drafting has failed with most 1st rounders

While I like Rachele I think we missed better mids , McAasey nuff said

But I also recognise efforts have been made to fix these issues

I'm not a fan of LT contracts but recognise I am an old curmudgeon who thinks 3 years is enough and damn well like it

I think we overrate our older players and dont think we have any long term plan on how to retire them. I dont believe in letting a player choose when they finish - no matter how many goals you kick.

And most of all I dont like how our list is required to wait to play - but that is also slowly changing . I will wait to see if we revert in 2025

tl;dr Adam Kelly has no idea and if he is driving the football department next year then god help us

 

[GreyCrow]

Mid Season Draft thoughts

Its a shamble to be honest We dont know what we want to do or what it is really for

We have needed a ruck option for a while . This year we took 200cm Toby Murray and either dont think a 200cm lad is ruck teaching material or we havent thought of it

2023 we decided our list was so strong we decided not to delist anyone

2022 we took Brett Turner who was injured and we didnt play him then delisted him 6 months later

2021 we took Parnell. I like Patty I really really do but he was a jockey when we needed a tall. Oh wait who went 1 spot after Parnell? Moyle. Who some posters are asking the club to trade for him. FFS

 

[Danger in Texas]

While I like Rachele I think we missed better mids

Nah

The players we missed (ie that are better than Rash now) from the first round of that draft are Amiss (KPF), NWM (HBF), and Wilmot (defender)

No mids, inside or outside, that we took ahead of Rash in the first round (and beyond) have had better careers thus far

In fact, the best performed in or out mid taken after Rash to date is… Soligo

 

[mcleod at 50 lines it up]

can't allow port to get JHF for so little as 2 late first round picks and expect anything above an F

 

[1990crow]

Nah

The players we missed (ie that are better than Rash now) from the first round of that draft are Amiss (KPF), NWM (HBF), and Wilmot (defender)

No mids, inside or outside, that we took ahead of Rash in the first round (and beyond) have had better careers thus far

In fact, the best performed in or out mid taken after Rash to date is… Soligo

The pick in isolation is probably fair.
But the strategy clearly should have been to tank for JHF through "player development".

We stuffed it there and then.

 

[1990crow]

6 years since 2018

Draft

2018
Pick 9. Jones. Fail.
Pick 16. McHenry. Fail.
Pick 30. Hamill. Probably Fail.
Pick 64. Sholl. Pass.
Butts a pass in rookie draft.

2019.
Pick 6. McAsey. Fail.
Pick 24. Schoenberg. Fail.
Pick 28. Worrell. Pass.
Pick 42. Oconnor. Fail.
Pick 48. Gollant. Fail.
Keays a pass in rookie draft.

2020.
Pick 2. Thilthorpe. Pass.
Pick 11. Pedlar. Trending fail.
Pick 25. Cook. Trending fail.
Pick 28. Berry. Trending fail.
Pick 38. Rowe. Fail.

2021.
Pick 6. Rachele. Pass.
Pick 36. Soligo. Pass.
Pick 44. Taylor. Trending pass.
Nankervis PSD. Pass.

2022.
Pick 17. Michalanney. Pass.
Pick 43. Dowling. Trending pass.
Pick 50. Bond. Trending pass.
Keane PSS. Pass.

2023
Pick 8. Curtin. Pass?
Pick 21. Edwards. Too early.
Pick 27. Ryan. Too early.

Trade
Hinge, Rankine, Dawson. Passes.
Burgess. Fail.

Drafting has been better in 2021, 2022 than 2018-2020 - which has been an unmitigated disaster.
Failed to find genuine A grade midfield talent.
Lots of second round pick fails, despite the notion Hamish picks well after the first round. Evidence suggest that's also not true.

 

[Bazz_27]

6 years since 2018

Draft

2018
Pick 9. Jones. Fail.
Pick 16. McHenry. Fail.
Pick 30. Hamill. Probably Fail.
Pick 64. Sholl. Pass.
Butts a pass in rookie draft.

2019.
Pick 6. McAsey. Fail.
Pick 24. Schoenberg. Fail.
Pick 28. Worrell. Pass.
Pick 42. Oconnor. Fail.
Pick 48. Gollant. Fail.
Keays a pass in rookie draft.

2020.
Pick 2. Thilthorpe. Pass.
Pick 11. Pedlar. Trending fail.
Pick 25. Cook. Trending fail.
Pick 28. Berry. Trending fail.
Pick 38. Rowe. Fail.

2021.
Pick 6. Rachele. Pass.
Pick 36. Soligo. Pass.
Pick 44. Taylor. Trending pass.
Nankervis PSD. Pass.

2022.
Pick 17. Michalanney. Pass.
Pick 43. Dowling. Trending pass.
Pick 50. Bond. Trending pass.
Keane PSS. Pass.

2023
Pick 8. Curtin. Pass?
Pick 21. Edwards. Too early.
Pick 27. Ryan. Too early.

Trade
Hinge, Rankine, Dawson. Passes.
Burgess. Fail.

Drafting has been better in 2021, 2022 than 2018-2020 - which has been an unmitigated disaster.
Failed to find genuine A grade midfield talent.
Lots of second round pick fails, despite the notion Hamish picks well after the first round. Evidence suggest that's also not true.

Our drafting under Don Pyke & football department was disastrous and this is why we are in our current mess.

2016 - Pick 15 Gooch
44 - Poholke
55- Himmelberg
62 Signorello
75 - Davis

Look at the draft and we are in the 10% of failed picks for all our picks. The guys that are drafted in this draft are in their peak. Don't look at this draft if you don't want to cry.

2017 -
Pick 12 Fog
Pick 40 -McPherson

Again some good players in this draft. Happy with Fog but an earlier pick than McPherson could've been handy right now.

Scary thing is we probably haven't felt the McAsey miss that much yet.

Drafting under Nicks & football department has been better

 

[daniel_4tw]

Not really. We’re 7 years into a rebuilding and still bottom 4.

We almost made finals on the back of a 34 year old’s last hurrah, when it should be off the back of our new upcoming talent.

We traded well with Rankine and Dawson, but who have we drafted that can give you confidence in our future?

Thilthorpe, Rachele and Soligo have shown glimpses… but they haven’t consistently taken their game to the level to take over the mantle.

Who is our Butters, Rozee, JHF? Not who is going to be, but who currently is putting up the regular performances these guys are?

The fact that we’re counting Curtin as a ‘pass’ when he’s played the equivalent of 3 games, and mediocre stats, should tell you we’re grasping at straws.

I don’t know if it’s drafting or development, but our best players are either traded in or guys about to retire. It’s a concern.

 

[Cleric]

6 years since 2018

Draft

2018
Pick 9. Jones. Fail.
Pick 16. McHenry. Fail.
Pick 30. Hamill. Probably Fail.
Pick 64. Sholl. Pass.
Butts a pass in rookie draft.

2019.
Pick 6. McAsey. Fail.
Pick 24. Schoenberg. Fail.
Pick 28. Worrell. Pass.
Pick 42. Oconnor. Fail.
Pick 48. Gollant. Fail.
Keays a pass in rookie draft.

2020.
Pick 2. Thilthorpe. Pass.
Pick 11. Pedlar. Trending fail.
Pick 25. Cook. Trending fail.
Pick 28. Berry. Trending fail.
Pick 38. Rowe. Fail.

2021.
Pick 6. Rachele. Pass.
Pick 36. Soligo. Pass.
Pick 44. Taylor. Trending pass.
Nankervis PSD. Pass.

2022.
Pick 17. Michalanney. Pass.
Pick 43. Dowling. Trending pass.
Pick 50. Bond. Trending pass.
Keane PSS. Pass.

2023
Pick 8. Curtin. Pass?
Pick 21. Edwards. Too early.
Pick 27. Ryan. Too early.

Trade
Hinge, Rankine, Dawson. Passes.
Burgess. Fail.

Drafting has been better in 2021, 2022 than 2018-2020 - which has been an unmitigated disaster.
Failed to find genuine A grade midfield talent.
Lots of second round pick fails, despite the notion Hamish picks well after the first round. Evidence suggest that's also not true.

Pedler has been injured this year, and he has played enough good games to say he isn't a fail. The only thing that stops him is injuries, which you can't blame on the recruiters.

 

[1990crow]

Pedler has been injured this year, and he has played enough good games to say he isn't a fail. The only thing that stops him is injuries, which you can't blame on the recruiters.

When he wasn't injured this year he wasn't picked. So that's simply not true.

 

[Cleric]

When he wasn't injured this year he wasn't picked. So that's simply not true.

He wasn't picked because he was coming off injuries. He isn't an established player to where his place is guaranteed when he is injured.

 

[GreyCrow]

Pedler has been injured this year, and he has played enough good games to say he isn't a fail. The only thing that stops him is injuries, which you can't blame on the recruiters.

He had an injury history pre-drafting so yes the recruiters knew

 

[Cleric]

He had an injury history pre-drafting so yes the recruiters knew

Lots of players have injuries, it's a contact sport.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Errors get carried down the line

List management can be good for years without righting the ship.

Seniors we invested heavily in years ago now struggling to produce consistent high quality football kills you. Those players are soaking up big dollars, aren't providing the output you'd hoped and also aren't the steadying leaders you need to develop youngsters alongside.

Added to that, games wasted on Jones, McHenry, Rowe, Hately, Himmelberg, Gollant, Schoenberg etc sets us back further. Maybe Berry has joined that list? Cook?

Takes us a long time to work out they aren't up to it then have to start over with draftees. Other players on the list aren't as advanced as they could be because we've given opportunities to the group above in preference (Worrell, Dowling, Taylor).

It's difficult for us to move the list forward as the gains are being undone by selection / coaching / drafting / development / recruitment errors. Like trying to fill a sieve with sand.

 

[davos44]

All in all, we are just a couple of additions away from our next premiership window.
If we get a good mid like Draper in the draft, and maybe ANB and Luko in the trade season, and Welsh as a F/S, we are on our way.

I think we are lacking in the coaching department more than list management.

I think we are lacking in the following:
Backup ruckman, mids with footspeed, a small forward.
Were in the absolute box seat for Sid Draper and it should be a no brainer, but this club has a long history of own goals when it comes to high end picks.


The drafting was horrendous from 16-19, its put us back by 2 years at least.
Galucci, Jones, McHenry and Pedlar have been a complete disappointment and Pedlar the only one where you cross your fingers because the talent is there but not the desire. Jones is OK.

Coaching one is hard. The side lacks experience and embedding a game plan into first year/0-50 gamers can be difficult. McRae at Collingwood had the experienced/core guys who help push the plan during the game and the younger guys can sort of run amok a bit more instead of exposing the team.

 

[Coopers]

I think we have done a very good job everywhere except for the midfield.

Which is the most important part of the team.

So... overall is meh. Unless we fix this we'll jag wins based on talent elsewhere in the team, but we won't be consistent enough to get into the top 4.