Oppo Camp Essendon FC verdict: Tuesday 31st of March.

[Kane McGoodwin]

It's really hard to have any sympathy for large portion of Essendon supporters ( or players) who still haven't written off hird

Particularly as there is no reason for them not to read the cas report to realise that Hird has been bullshitting them from day 1... & that he clearly has no evidence to clear everyone as he has sprouted from day 1.

At least Armstrong had his Oprah moment where he finally admitted guilt.

Hird, time for you to finally act like a man & come clean with your active involvement in this shameful saga, including apologising to the Afl & it's supporters whose image your have tarnished internationally & the players, even though they were stupid, they should never have been put in this position.

Expecting no tough questions from the journalists & more waffle from saint hird has done nothing wrong, $1m salary without a shred of accountability... Just not living in the real world!

 

[SydCrow]

Jimmy needs to stop listening to his lawyers and start listening to his PR expert. Time for a full mea culpa and some therapy.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Particularly as there is no reason for them not to read the cas report to realise that Hird has been bullshitting them from day 1... & that he clearly has no evidence to clear everyone as he has sprouted from day 1.

At least Armstrong had his Oprah moment where he finally admitted guilt.

Hird, time for you to finally act like a man & come clean with your active involvement in this shameful saga, including apologising to the Afl & it's supporters whose image your have tarnished internationally & the players, even though they were stupid, they should never have been put in this position.

Expecting no tough questions from the journalists & more waffle from saint hird has done nothing wrong, $1m salary without a shred of accountability... Just not living in the real world!

His ego doesn't allow for it. He has decided to muddy the waters so when tell all biographies come out in future years he has plausible deniability, he can sue for defamation if need be and protect his earning potential and image. If he opens up it means its on the public record but unless someone proves he was in on it he can run this line all day every day.

 

[cmndstab]

Seriously, at this point he could just come out and say "I really should have had a better understanding of what was happening at the club I was coaching, I really got that wrong and I apologise to the players and members for my lack of diligence in preventing others from orchestrating this under my watch" and people would slap him on the back and talk about how good it is that he's finally owning up to responsibility, rather than asking about his (likely) further involvement. But somehow he's still decided to stick to the "literally none of this is my fault" line. That takes a special amount of arrogance.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I navigated my way thru the decision (thanks for posting link Nikki) and certainly was quite the read. There is absolutely no way that Hird didn't understand what was going down. The fact that execs at Essendon purposely held meetings regarding a new supplements program and the teams Doctor wasn't present tells you everything you need to know.

I thought the tribunal did a pretty good job explaining why it is not necessary to prove the source of the drugs themselves. While I do agree that there was no direct evidence of certain players receiving injections the circumstantial evidence was overwhelming. Since this is not a criminal case I have no issue with the tribunal tying circumstantial evidence to the playing group itself.

You can't read thru the findings and not come to the conclusion that the playing group willfully went along with a program that AT BEST they knew was shady as hell. I thought it was apparent that several players were dodgy with investigators and it was a weak attempt to mitigate their involvement. Best example of that was denying that the supplements quack (and by god is he a quack) ever traveled with the team. This was false and when confronted with it several players had to change their story.

Not sure how Australian law works but it is incredible to me that the quack admitted that they would need to "experiment on a couple players" with a form of supplement that was previously only ever used on racehorses. How on god's green earth he was not charged criminally is beyond me.

Hird should be banned from the AFL for life and all other team officials/execs who were at those initial meetings should likewise be banned for life.

I do think the playing group will have a cause of action. (most especially the guinea pigs--did this guy study medicine in Nazi Germany btw?) Although they might have been willing participants--there were things they clearly (and intentionally) were not informed about.

Anyway--that is my takeaway.

 

[King Elvis]

I don't use the word often, but Hird is an absolute campaigner.

His arrogance and completely disregard for reality is incomprehensible.

He did this, he's responsible for it; his attempts to excuse himself are pathetic.

What a piece of shit.

Probably a drug cheat when he played, too.

 

[King Elvis]

Oh, and the AFLPA have shown themselves to be a complete joke as well.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I navigated my way thru the decision (thanks for posting link Nikki) and certainly was quite the read. There is absolutely no way that Hird didn't understand what was going down. The fact that execs at Essendon purposely held meetings regarding a new supplements program and the teams Doctor wasn't present tells you everything you need to know.

I thought the tribunal did a pretty good job explaining why it is not necessary to prove the source of the drugs themselves. While I do agree that there was no direct evidence of certain players receiving injections the circumstantial evidence was overwhelming. Since this is not a criminal case I have no issue with the tribunal tying circumstantial evidence to the playing group itself.

You can't read thru the findings and not come to the conclusion that the playing group willfully went along with a program that AT BEST they knew was shady as hell. I thought it was apparent that several players were dodgy with investigators and it was a weak attempt to mitigate their involvement. Best example of that was denying that the supplements quack (and by god is he a quack) ever traveled with the team. This was false and when confronted with it several players had to change their story.

Not sure how Australian law works but it is incredible to me that the quack admitted that they would need to "experiment on a couple players" with a form of supplement that was previously only ever used on racehorses. How on god's green earth he was not charged criminally is beyond me.

Hird should be banned from the AFL for life and all other team officials/execs who were at those initial meetings should likewise be banned for life.

I do think the playing group will have a cause of action. (most especially the guinea pigs--did this guy study medicine in Nazi Germany btw?) Although they might have been willing participants--there were things they clearly (and intentionally) were not informed about.

Anyway--that is my takeaway.

I think the players course of action will be challenged in the court of law on the basis that when regularly tested by ASADA refused to disclose to ASADA if they were taking any supplements

This to me indicates to me that they knew more than what they are saying and what also seems to be evident is that some players had concerns over the program but they failed each other by not opposing those responsible in establishing the program, they failed to escalate the issue to their clib Doctor, they actually did the opposite by keeping him out of the loop and finally not one of the players broke rank so there appears to have been one in all in mentality

On James Hird his public presentation of his all care for the players however I accept no responsibility is just sickening and as the head coach at the time he cannot delegate his accountability to ensure that his Football program is clean , a senior coach does not just coach the players he is accountable for the football program that he puts in place

 

[Elite Crow]

I think the players course of action will be challenged in the court of law on the basis that when regularly tested by ASADA refused to disclose to ASADA if they were taking any supplements

This to me indicates to me that they knew more than what they are saying and what also seems to be evident is that some players had concerns over the program but they failed each other by not opposing those responsible in establishing the program, they failed to escalate the issue to their clib Doctor, they actually did the opposite by keeping him out of the loop and finally not one of the players broke rank so there appears to have been one in all in mentality

On James Hird his public presentation of his all care for the players however I accept no responsibility is just sickening and as the head coach at the time he cannot delegate his accountability to ensure that his Football program is clean , a senior coach does not just coach the players he is accountable for the football program that he puts in place

If you're doing nothing wrong you don't need to deceive so many people and keep it quiet. The fact it was done by such a large collective is even more damming.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Oh, and the AFLPA have shown themselves to be a complete joke as well.

KE

Most of ASADA drug investigations is targeted at individuals however in this case it was systematic team doping and with that I have no doubt that ASADA has much to learn from this experience and in particular how is their process agile enough to deal with the Essendon type of situation

However with that said I also have no doubt that both Essendon and the AFL were significant in how and the length of time it took to complete the investigation

This was messy from the start however we all want clean athletes and we need ASADA to get better at what they do

 

[Elite Crow]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/essendon...costs-against-hal-hunter-20160115-gm6l85.html

Arseholes

 

[King Elvis]

KE

Most of ASADA drug investigations is targeted at individuals however in this case it was systematic team doping and with that I have no doubt that ASADA has much to learn from this experience and in particular how is their process agile enough to deal with the Essendon type of situation

However with that said I also have no doubt that both Essendon and the AFL were significant in how and the length of time it took to complete the investigation

This was messy from the start however we all want clean athletes and we need ASADA to get better at what they do

Not sure about this post mate; you realize I said the AFLPA; not ASADA?

 

[skoobydoo]

His ego doesn't allow for it. He has decided to muddy the waters so when tell all biographies come out in future years he has plausible deniability, he can sue for defamation if need be and protect his earning potential and image. If he opens up it means its on the public record but unless someone proves he was in on it he can run this line all day every day.

Good post. Hird is a suspect character but no fool where his survival and benefit is concerned.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Reading the CAS findings today ...this disturbed me
If Dank at a group meeting was told to cease the injection program, i do not think he was dumb enough to defy his employer and continue injecting 34 players .....can't keep that a secret in a footy club

Someone privately after that meeting told him to continue ????? .......who?

 

[skoobydoo]

Vlad had the balls/(limited) integrity to punish severely anyone who compromised the integrity of the competition. He worshiped the Holy Dollar to an unhealthy degree, to the detriment of the fans, but he jealously defended the integrity of the competition. That's why Adelaide and Carlton were whacked, why Adelaide were punished for Melbourne's not-tanking, and why Essendon where originally whacked for their poor governance. I guarantee that he would not have sat there and said that Essendon had been punished enough - he would have been stripping them of draft picks for multiple years and doing his damnedest to figure out how big a fine he could apply without sending the club to the wall (or the AFL having to pay it, as they did with Melbourne).

Vlad's integrity defence was fine rhetoric but was always compromised to second place with his $ objective. And with the $ in mind his early efforts were to save Essendon and so lead us down the long convoluted road of this saga.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Reading the CAS findings today ...this disturbed me
If Dank at a group meeting was told to cease the injection program, i do not think he was dumb enough to defy his employer and continue injecting 34 players .....can't keep that a secret in a footy club

Someone privately after that meeting told him to continue ????? .......who?

View attachment 207251

Could be a few got cold feet and opted out. My suspicion is Bomber and Dr Reid are the ones who told them to stop judging by there reactions and disbelief at there punishments. So I doubt Jonah Oliver would have been the guilty party. Isn't funny how through the process of elimination we always end back with the same individual.

 

[Grooster24]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/essendon...costs-against-hal-hunter-20160115-gm6l85.html

Arseholes

I say he should CrowdFund. I'll be happy to chip in a few dollars as I expect many others would. The poor kid just wants to know what Hird and Dank experimented on him with for the sake of his own health. Plus it might uncover some more answer to a few questions.

 

[rezagun]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/essendon...costs-against-hal-hunter-20160115-gm6l85.html

Arseholes

Essendon and the afl are absolutely pathetic.

 

[Bay62]

Could be a few got cold feet and opted out. My suspicion is Bomber and Dr Reid are the ones who told them to stop judging by there reactions and disbelief at there punishments. So I doubt Jonah Oliver would have been the guilty party. Isn't funny how through the process of elimination we always end back with the same individual.

Bomber is one of the first players that Hird threw under the bus for bringing Robinson on board, but he's about the only one who's said publicly "We got it wrong, we copped our whack, we didn't like it but so be it"

And his reputation is intact enough to be commentating on radio and TV

 

[LiquidCrow]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/essendon...costs-against-hal-hunter-20160115-gm6l85.html

Arseholes

This is disgraceful, but also serves as a warning shot to the 34 players looking at taking legal action.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Bomber is one of the first players that Hird threw under the bus for bringing Robinson on board, but he's about the only one who's said publicly "We got it wrong, we copped our whack, we didn't like it but so be it"

And his reputation is intact enough to be commentating on radio and TV

Just because Dank, Robinson and Bomber worked together previously doesnt mean any indiscretions took place. The governance of the club may have not allowed the issues that took place at essendon to take place. Dank Robinson and Hird probably tried to take it a step further and be on the edge.

 

[Bay62]

Seriously, at this point he could just come out and say "I really should have had a better understanding of what was happening at the club I was coaching, I really got that wrong and I apologise to the players and members for my lack of diligence in preventing others from orchestrating this under my watch" and people would slap him on the back and talk about how good it is that he's finally owning up to responsibility, rather than asking about his (likely) further involvement. But somehow he's still decided to stick to the "literally none of this is my fault" line. That takes a special amount of arrogance.

Have you seen part 2 of his story in the Advertiser today?

Give us a break James

He's coaching a practice match and David Evans comes up to him and says "The AFL believes our players have been taking performance enhancing drugs"

And Hird says "I don't know what you're talking about"

Really James? That's what you said? Not "WHAT!?" Or "What? Why? How? Who?"

After telling everyone that the supplements program has to be above board and meetings where that's reiterated, you get news that the AFL is concerned and your first response is a defensive one?

And then according to your version, the next you hear about it is 8.30 that night when Evans rings you and invites you to his place for a meeting.

So you did NOTHING in between those times to find out more?? Your chairman raises this issue with you as head coach and you just ignore it for the rest of the day??


Later in the article he says "The environment I had promised to create for the players was compromised"

Wait - so you promised something over which you didn't have total control? I thought you were a canny business man James - don't you know not to promise things you may not be able to deliver on? It's fine to trust people in business James - but not to deliver on YOUR promises


And then, after all this time where he hides behind the strict reporting hierarchy and his expectation that everyone was doing everything right, and his protests of "What more could I possibly have done?" - FINALLY he says "if I were to do things differently it would be to trust less, to ask more questions and demand more answers"

So - you're finally saying that there WAS more that you could do? Like everyone has been telling you all this time? Exactly the same thing the CAS Panel said the players didn't do properly? That they weren't deliberately taking known illegal drugs but that they were "insufficiently careful" about what was going into their bodies.

At last he admits that maybe there was more that he should have done. Hallelujah.

Here's a tip James: trust other people when they say that they'll pick up some milk for you on the way home. But when it's about being compliant with a world wide anti-doping code? Probably best to keep on top of that yourself

And as for your lament that the AFL were "desperate to put a high profile head on a spike"?

They probably were, but you might like to think that maybe there's a reason for that. Because it's the high profile heads that are at the top of the tree. Which means that they're accountable for what goes on underneath them, even if they're not responsible for it.

You do know the difference between responsible and accountable..don't you James?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Have you seen part 2 of his story in the Advertiser today?

Give us a break James

He's coaching a practice match and David Evans comes up to him and says "The AFL believes our players have been taking performance enhancing drugs"

And Hird says "I don't know what you're talking about"

Really James? That's what you said? Not "WHAT!?" Or "What? Why? How? Who?"

After telling everyone that the supplements program has to be above board and meetings where that's reiterated, you get news that the AFL is concerned and your first response is a defensive one?

And then according to your version, the next you hear about it is 8.30 that night when Evans rings you and invites you to his place for a meeting.

So you did NOTHING in between those times to find out more?? Your chairman raises this issue with you as head coach and you just ignore it for the rest of the day??


Later in the article he says "The environment I had promised to create for the players was compromised"

Wait - so you promised something over which you didn't have total control? I thought you were a canny business man James - don't you know not to promise things you may not be able to deliver on? It's fine to trust people in business James - but not to deliver on YOUR promises


And then, after all this time where he hides behind the strict reporting hierarchy and his expectation that everyone was doing everything right, and his protests of "What more could I possibly have done?" - FINALLY he says "if I were to do things differently it would be to trust less, to ask more questions and demand more answers"

So - you're finally saying that there WAS more that you could do? Like everyone has been telling you all this time? Exactly the same thing the CAS Panel said the players didn't do properly? That they weren't deliberately taking known illegal drugs but that they were "insufficiently careful" about what was going into their bodies.

At last he admits that maybe there was more that he should have done. Hallelujah.

Here's a tip James: trust other people when they say that they'll pick up some milk for you on the way home. But when it's about being compliant with a world wide anti-doping code? Probably best to keep on top of that yourself

And as for your lament that the AFL were "desperate to put a high profile head on a spike"?

They probably were, but you might like to think that maybe there's a reason for that. Because it's the high profile heads that are at the top of the tree. Which means that they're accountable for what goes on underneath them, even if they're not responsible for it.

You do know the difference between responsible and accountable..don't you James?

Given Hird's approach til now I expected a fluff article where he just offered excuses, refused to be accountable or address any of his role in the saga... Apart from he is sorry for the players.

I really hope he is sued & bankrupted... Such that reality finally hits & he is brought back down to earth... & that he finally may take responsibility for being a major player in this mess. Some how I doubt it. Even Armstrong eventually admitted he did wrong, so hird is even worse at this point in time.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Given Hird's approach til now I expected a fluff article where he just offered excuses, refused to be accountable or address any of his role in the saga... Apart from he is sorry for the players.

I really hope he is sued & bankrupted... Such that reality finally hits & he is brought back down to earth... & that he finally may take responsibility for being a major player in this mess. Some how I doubt it. Even Armstrong eventually admitted he did wrong, so hird is even worse at this point in time.

It would not surprise me if Hird, Dank and Robinson and Essendon are jointly sued in one mass case by the 34 players. It could get very very ugly. The players who are still at Essendon may need to sacrifice their careers because I am not sure they will be welcome back nor will they want to come back once as some people expect Essendon and Co counter sue as the players were willing participants.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Not sure about this post mate; you realize I said the AFLPA; not ASADA?

Oops my error and apology