Coach Do you still have any faith in Bevo? [POLL]

Do you still believe he should coach this side?

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Freshwater said:
When George Washington stood down after two terms (8 years) the crowned heads of Europe couldn’t believe a man would willingly give up power, but was able to live to see the ramifications of his legacy. Jefferson had two terms and stepped down, Madison followed and the precedent was set. FDR in the mid 20th century stuffed up this pattern so they changed the constitution after he gorged himself on 4 terms and died in office. My long point is 8 years is enough for any leader in any organisation. We all saw how Eddie became a tyrant who would have dominated any board meeting at that club. Collingwood was then able to move forward after Eddie’s departure. Politicians on any side become dictatorial after two terms, and lose sight of why they first joined.
Is it money or power or ego or all three that keep them going longer than is best for their own organisation? I think these players as well as other staff at the club need another leader.
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What about Augustus or Constantine? Why American history?
 
Dogs_r_barking said:
I read through a lot of these comments and they often conflict or fail to mention issues the club is confronted with.

For example the comment that Bevo has regressed since 2015/16, but yet we still managed to make a GF in 2021.

We have or are wasting the list, but who is left from 2016? Bont, Libba, McCrae, Daniel, McLean? We lost a lot of players through untimely retirements, Tom Boyd, Clay Smith, Liam Picken, other players left or were moved on, Stringer, Dalhaus, Hamling, Cordy and the reality is the players who were the generals have retired, I.e. Morris, Boyd, Dicko.

We picked up picks 1 and 2 in the drafts in Jamarra and Darcy, this has really tied our hand in terms of replenishing the list, and I feel we were really done over by other clubs here, an earlier bid should have come on Daicos.

My thoughts are we have topped up with players from Footscray because two drafts have been compromised, we are rebuilding the list on the run, while still making finals. People keep saying we have the best list we have ever had - but who are these players? Bont is obviously elite, Easton aged in front of our eyes in 2021 and we have not been able to replace him. Our forward line is very young, Marra, Naughton, Cody and Arthur are still babies, we won’t see them peak for another four or five years.

Our midfield would have been topped up in an uncompromised draft, and it was very unfortunate we lost Lipinski here And Dunkley was always going to chase the dollars. The other difficult with the drafts has been COVID, it has been a lucky lottery drafting, not seeing how good or bad these players are because the competitions have not run.

My thoughts are, we are rebuilding on the run, and Bevo might be fast tracking the development of some players by playing them, I.e. JOD and Gardner. Players like West are never going to make it, he is slow and his decision making is suspect, stop looking at him as a West.

If we make finals this year, good on us, if we don’t it will be close and it will help our draft hand.

Where Bevo is stuffing up, is his versatility mantra is confusing for young players, but he listens when they speak up, I.e. Richards telling him he wants to stay in defence.

I hear the frustration with the match day coaching and I agree we need a strong coaching panel, fresh ideas and strong voices, but I also hear the frustration of coaches including Bevo, about the soft cap, and the cuts to spending, it seems to be where our cuts have hurt the most is assistant coaches. I would remind you that last year Geelong had 15 coaches, and went way over the soft cap and happily paid the tax.

I remember the cheap as chips days, when we recruited Peter Road as a coach, it was awful, if we sack Bevo who is available, Bolton, and other failed coaches?

Can we just hold our fire, and support the boys until the end of the year. We are never going to be a big club, if we sook it up every time the team doesn’t meet our expectations and don’t turn up to games.
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Excellent post - agree with most of not all of your points here. Especially in relation to our list and the decimation of our 16 team over 24 months.


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Proffessor said:
How so?
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Because we were shite & we just expected to be. Because there was in fighting at the club all the time and in the end the administrators just threw their hands up and walked away. Lucky for the actual supporters raising the money (& Chris Grant). We should have demanded more than the basket case the club was....the 'bigger' clubs were more ruthless & we should have been (and should be now) the same.
 
maddog37 said:
What about Augustus or Constantine? Why American history?
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They were the ones I knew who voluntarily stepped aside after two terms, and they did so quite literally for this reason. I’ve read quite a lot on this period. I wish I had 6 lifetimes to read more on Greek and Roman history and so many other periods.
 
NBates said:
Because we were shite & we just expected to be. Because there was in fighting at the club all the time and in the end the administrators just threw their hands up and walked away. Lucky for the actual supporters raising the money (& Chris Grant). We should have demanded more than the basket case the club was....the 'bigger' clubs were more ruthless & we should have been (and should be now) the same.
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Whilst I agree that there may have been some less than stellar people running the club at times over the years. It is very easy to underestimate the challenges that they were constantly presented with. Challenges which took a bunch of VFL clubs to the brink of extinction.

We survived and now thrive in a national competition. Some other clubs were not so lucky.

The key factor determining success was money not ruthlessness. Look how Carlton has gone since its financial advantages have been limited. Their so called ruthlessness hasn't helped them much recently.
 
Rarely post now but Bevo is obviously an excellent coach, the results speak for themselves. I could only dream of 9 years like this when I was young. At least the grandchildren now have other dog supporters around them. His man management is supposed to be excellent and there has been no exodus of players that we really needed to keep.
Obviously my ideas are from a previous epoch but I would like him to try some changes with his star players rather than bringing in a first gamer as a solution to inspire the team.
CHB - naughton bont or English. CHF English or Naughton. First ruck Lobb or dare I say it sfa who do is no worse than jod.
Bont has the size to play CHB like EJ and could set up from defence. English can be the all Australian ruck but would he suit the team better by playing as a KP, for some of the game. Naughton could be the ultimate swing man.
At least be prepared to make some big moves rather than teams just kicking so many back to back goals against us and continue to see us lose.
He rarely has his team settled till the last month so there is time for him to try something radical.
 
Freshwater said:
When George Washington stood down after two terms (8 years) the crowned heads of Europe couldn’t believe a man would willingly give up power, but was able to live to see the ramifications of his legacy. Jefferson had two terms and stepped down, Madison followed and the precedent was set. FDR in the mid 20th century stuffed up this pattern so they changed the constitution after he gorged himself on 4 terms and died in office. My long point is 8 years is enough for any leader in any organisation. We all saw how Eddie became a tyrant who would have dominated any board meeting at that club. Collingwood was then able to move forward after Eddie’s departure. Politicians on any side become dictatorial after two terms, and lose sight of why they first joined.
Is it money or power or ego or all three that keep them going longer than is best for their own organisation? I think these players as well as other staff at the club need another leader.
Click to expand...
Jeff Kennett was a big believer in that. If he had have won the Victorian 1999 Election, he was already planning to walk mid-term, thinking 6-8 years was the ideal time for leaders (government, business, sport) to leave.

This interview of his was after loss against Geelong in 2013, and it's quite extraordinary to hear an ex-president speak like this of his club's current coach.



They went on to win the following 3 flags immediately after it.

Bomber Thompson was "very stale" in 2006. Hardwick had not finished top four, nor had he won a single final at a similar timeframe to the time Bevo has had in the top job with us. This idea that success can't come after 7-8 years in a top job has been disproven quite a few times.

There's plenty that needs fixing, but I think offloading a premiership coaching at this point would be an extremely high risk move.
 
Geelong getting Chris Scott in 2011 is a perfect example. There was still so much talent in that team, but Bomber was stale and Scott came in with a fresh approach.
 
Conception said:
Kane Cornes on 'the round so far' suggesting Beveridge plays favourites at selection and that he's being 'so stubborn' continuing to select O'Donnell.

As usual, Cornes is the only bozo in the media to actually question Beveridge's coaching ability. Right on the money too, and Beveridge won't be happy about it.
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Just need him to yell at a journo again and they'll come from everywhere for him.
 
I felt very sorry for J O'D at the weekend. He was expected to come in and play finals level football against a finals bound side, then got dragged when he predictably found his five games of experience weren't enough. He looked disconsolate on the bench .

But it's the selection panel who are at fault . There have been many Leftfield team selections over the years but this one is batshit crazy. Sure he shows promise , but we've never had such a glut of tall players, so why the desperation to blood another one?
 

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Northernsoul74 said:
Hopefully they have some plans in place.
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Yeah, I don't know anything more than what I posted which I heard a couple of days ago.
I'm thinking they don't. They will appoint the candidate best suited if Bevo does stand down.
You can't promise someone a job halfway through when no position is yet available. Unless your Terry Wallace of course.
 
bresker said:
I felt very sorry for J O'D at the weekend. He was expected to come in and play finals level football against a finals bound side, then got dragged when he predictably found his five games of experience weren't enough. He looked disconsolate on the bench .

But it's the selection panel who are at fault . There have been many Leftfield team selections over the years but this one is batshit crazy. Sure he shows promise , but we've never had such a glut of tall players, so why the desperation to blood another one?
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Why did Bevo keep JUH plying his trade in the 2s for so long but brings in a player like JOD after 3 2s games and keeps him there? Just one decision of many I can't understand.
 
Proffessor said:
I agree that it shouldn’t be decided by knee jerk decisions, but simply cannot support the 'review' approach.

As I’ve stated previously, I’m not a fan of reviews. If our elected club leaders need someone else to tell them how things are going then they should resign.
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I hear you but this is also how basically every largeish corporate entity in Australia operates
 
Dogman 1 said:
Why did Bevo keep JUH plying his trade in the 2s for so long but brings in a player like JOD after 3 2s games and keeps him there? Just one decision of many I can't understand.
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JOD was older at the time, assume had been a pretty decent sporting environment so prepared, also a highly rated athlete in his own right. Sometimes it’s not beneficial to just flog a young kid like Marra at the top level. So much more comes into it including the mental/confidence side. Marra has admitted himself he needed to get a bit more serious in the first couple of years.
 
Northernsoul74 said:
JOD was older at the time, assume had been a pretty decent sporting environment so prepared, also a highly rated athlete in his own right. Sometimes it’s not beneficial to just flog a young kid like Marra at the top level. So much more comes into it including the mental/confidence side. Marra has admitted himself he needed to get a bit more serious in the first couple of years.
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Essendon District cricket club? 😅

Not sure that’s great prep for AFL level footy, but yeah I agree on Marra. I actually think our development & the way we eased him in was really good, JOD not so much
 
We are forgetting that Bevo was a total St Kilda nuffie growing up. Trevor Barker his boyhood idol. Bevo is also a big cricket fan too. Simon O’Donnell played a few games for the Saints and then became a sort of limited overs cricket legend, part of the legendary World Cup victory of 1987 in India and International Cricketer of the year one year, who used to smack the biggest sixes we’ve ever seen, against the might West Indies no less.Bevo has been a little thrilled to be able to give JOD a chance at AFL level but is somewhat blinded by his hero worship of his dad.
 
doggy_dog said:
I reckon the talent gap with our bottom handful of players is overblown. A good team with a good system makes those players look better. It’s the reason Jason Castagna has 3 flags.

Collingwood right now are churning out the likes of McCreery, Markov, Cox, Frampton, Hoskin-Elliot. But they have a defined role in a good system that maximises strengths and hides weaknesses. That’s what we lack
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That's one way of looking at it.
For me, guys like Arthur Jones and James O'Donnell are just miles worse than your McReeries/Miers/Markov types. I do not see any value they bring to the side; Jones literally got 0 disposals against the Power.
 
Conception said:
That's one way of looking at it.
For me, guys like Arthur Jones and James O'Donnell are just miles worse than your McReeries/Miers/Markov types. I do not see any value they bring to the side; Jones literally got 0 disposals against the Power.
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Jones is a 19 year old kid that was playing his 11th senior game. had a few good games before he want though this quiet patch he brings great value to the Side
 
Freshwater said:
Geelong getting Chris Scott in 2011 is a perfect example. There was still so much talent in that team, but Bomber was stale and Scott came in with a fresh approach.
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No different to Alan Joyce walking in to the 91 Hawks team, both Joyce and Scott simply had to coach and that was it.
 
Bulldogs85 said:
Jones is a 19 year old kid that was playing his 11th senior game. had a few good games before he want though this quiet patch he brings great value to the Side
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Ok, fair enough, but at the end of the day he's still just one example and part of a common theme with Beveridge selections. One week it's Jones, another week it could be Hannan, or McNeil, or Roarke Smith, or McComb, or O'Donnell, or Garcia, the list goes on.

The point is every game it feels like our worst 7-8 players are worse than the opposition's. Nowhere was this more apparent than the Geelong game. Bookies made Bulldogs favorites, Geelong had no Dangerfield, Guthrie, Duncan, Menegola or Selwood if you want to count him. Our midfield of Bontempelli, Smith, Treloar, Macrae looked miles better than what they were fielding in the middle, but if you get too sucked into judging teams by their top end talent, you forget about the bottom end, and Geelong's bottom end (guys like Miers, Close, Atkins, Z.Guthrie) were providing them far more value than we were getting from Jones, O'Donnell, McMiss from 5m out, Gardner, O'Brien, Baker and even Naughton for that game.
 
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Freshwater said:
We are forgetting that Bevo was a total St Kilda nuffie growing up. Trevor Barker his boyhood idol. Bevo is also a big cricket fan too. Simon O’Donnell played a few games for the Saints and then became a sort of limited overs cricket legend, part of the legendary World Cup victory of 1987 in India and International Cricketer of the year one year, who used to smack the biggest sixes we’ve ever seen, against the might West Indies no less.Bevo has been a little thrilled to be able to give JOD a chance at AFL level but is somewhat blinded by his hero worship of his dad.
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I think Marra as a number one pick needed to be protected from the pressures that Tom Boyd experienced something Bevo knew well.

Arhur is a second year player and brought a spark and good pressure to the team. JOD is a rookie pick, where there are low expectations and pressure and an opportunity to fast track his development. To say Bevo is star struck is really a stretch.
 
Guido said:
They went on to win the following 3 flags immediately after it.

Bomber Thompson was "very stale" in 2006. Hardwick had not finished top four, nor had he won a single final at a similar timeframe to the time Bevo has had in the top job with us. This idea that success can't come after 7-8 years in a top job has been disproven quite a few times.

There's plenty that needs fixing, but I think offloading a premiership coaching at this point would be an extremely high risk move.
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What's this business about risk? What are we risking by getting rid of Beveridge? The success that we're currently not having? Did West Coast take a risk by parting ways with Worsfold 8 years after he won the flag?

It's a fair point to make that sometimes success can take a long time to build, and that patience with a coach can pay off in a big way. However, every case is different.

Let us look at Hawthorn and Clarko: when Hawthorn hired him they were at the bottom, and they steadily built up to winning the flag in 08. Then they had a bad year in 09. Then immediately starting steadily building up again: finals in 2010, top 4 and barely losing(choking) a prelim to Collingwood in 2011, top of the ladder and barely losing a Grand Final in 2012, then three straight flags from 2013-2015.
One crap year aside, there was always a sense of progression with every year. They were always getting better and never going backwards.

Richmond under Hardwick is similar: started at the bottom in 2010, then eventually made finals three years in a row from 2013-2015 (with 2015 being their best year). Then they had a bad year in 2016, Hardwick was right on the brink of being sacked, but they gave him one more chance with a slightly refreshed list. Went onto win three of the next four flags.

The same thing could be said about Bomber Thompson, with 2006 being the "bad" year.

Compare that to the Luke Beveridge rollercoaster of terminal inconsistency: great year in 2015, flag in 2016, crap in 2017, crap in 2018, crap for half of 2019 but find form late, make finals and show an extremely promising outlook for the future. Then crap in 2020, then we got the full rollercoaster experience contained in one year for 2021: great at the start, then mediocre, then good again, then terrible (final three rounds, choking top 4), then great again (finals) then bottom of the barrel disgusting (second half of the Grand Final). Then crap in 2022, crap in 2023.
Where is the steady line of progression? Clarko and Hardwick had their odd-one-out down years, but Beveridge already has several of these. At this point, we can safely conclude it's always going to be like this under him. There is also no question that following 2019, when we had such a promising young list, we have absolutely underachieved in the 4 years following on.
 

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