Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[passball]

Listed a few pages back, plus the lobbying/$1,000,000 reward.

Who cares about the reward? Obviously nobody.
The big reward is, to me, simply a way to reinforve the idea the FPs are innocent. Like people are saying? Why would they get approval for the reward if they thought the FPs are guilty.
It was a win win for them.
Then Gary Jubelin left. Noooooo.

It will never get paid out.

IMO

 

[winyhill]

The service at FGMs house was only a problem for internet access, not regular phone / SMS services. Plenty of phone calls made to and from FGMs house on mobile phones that day.

But I was not referring to service at the house. I was talking about service on Batar Creek Road . Which was very clear in my post. Don't twist what I say because it doesn't fit your narrative

 

[passball]

But I was not referring to service at the house. I was talking about service on Batar Creek Road . Which was very clear in my post. Don't twist what I say because it doesn't fit your narrative

What is YOUR narrative?

 

[winyhill]

The question is, does and what evidence do police have to support their theory that
William died after falling from a balcony?
was transported in FGM’s car by FM?and
was disposed of by FM?

Well, that is the 64,000 dollar question and the answer is,..........NONE

 

[31550]

Listed a few pages back, plus the lobbying/$1,000,000 reward.

That's not evidence of anything. They couldn't very well oppose the $1M reward, could they?
The reward was lobbied for by Insight - it might have been their idea rather than the fosters. It's what PR firms do - lobby.
By the time the reward was announced (2 years in ) 'abduction' was the mainstream theory, strongly pushed by the fosters narrative. Would make sense to support a reward.

 

[31550]

But I was not referring to service at the house. I was talking about service on Batar Creek Road . Which was very clear in my post. Don't twist what I say because it doesn't fit your narrative

It's not narrative, what I said about internet/ phone was fact. And I never mentioned BCR, I was talking about FGM house.
Do you have evidence to support your claim that it's different on BCR?

 

[31550]

The theory about FM is definitely an "official" theory of the Police, it was even stated in Court

Yes but the post you replied to was talking about the 'theory' that someone saw FM throw something out of the car.

 

[shorsky]

FWIW I personally don't disagree with your thinking. It makes more sense to me that she drove prior.

The above underlined is not overly clear. Jubelin says above that that she drove AFTER (by inference that he says elsewhere that she drove after speaking to the neighbour). Then the underlined says 'it must have been by myself' - what, the walk/run to the bus stop? We know she drove by herself, that is not in doubt. Then she starts to say something - and I agree with you that it's likely CAR is the next word. But what context then follows?

Can you explain why the following was used to introduce the inquest tranche?

Details of the police theory​

Counsel Assisting Gerard Craddock SC's opening address on Monday explored the police theory about the foster mother's movements at the time of the boy's disappearance.

He said the theory was he died in an accident.

"Police assert that she must've quickly resolved that if the accidental death were to be discovered she might lose [custody of another child in their care]," he said.

"Police assert that in that frame of mind she placed William in her mother's car and after alerting [a neighbour] to William's disappearance, drove the mother's car down to Batar Creek Road and placed William's body somewhere in undergrowth and then returned [home] to 48 Benaroon Drive and called the police via triple-0."


And then this, which indicates they are not relying on her version:

Mr Craddock told the hearing on Monday that the foster mother had no recollection of the precise time she drove her mother's car from the house after the boy vanished on the morning of September 12, 2014.

I don’t believe Jubelin mentioned FM going for a Drive. …

And I’m sorry, I’m unable to shed any light on what was said at the inquest. … way outside my wheel house, and not said by me !

 

[31550]

I don’t believe Jubelin mentioned FM going for a Drive. …

And I’m sorry, I’m unable to shed any light on what was said at the inquest. … way outside my wheel house, and not said by me !

Jubelin talks about the drive in his book.

 

[craffles]

Jubelin is a joke. Take anything he says with a grain of salt.

 

[Earls Smother]

Jubelin is a joke. Take anything he says with a grain of salt.

Except the current SFR taskforce have never suggested any alteration to the drive timeline (neighbour, bus stop, drive, ring 000) that Jubelin established.

The recent tranche of inquest was opened with a categoric statement that said it is still the alleged police theory. This is irrefutable (the statement and belief of police) and I can't understand the continual debate around it when we don't have all the information they have.

 

[LRitz]

No one ever knew about the created or corrected times, except for Jubelin, the ex-carers and Craddock. It was buried in hundreds of pages of the BOE. (Brief Of Evidence)

Had it not been for the legal representative for the bios raising the issue the public to this day would be none the wiser. Craddock wasn't going to get up in court and say oh by the way there's a time discrepancy with the photos. Instead what did he say in his opening address - We have proof of life at 9:37am (when IMO he knew there was the discrepancy in the BOE).

Harriett had asked for a review of the photos after the discrepancy was raised at the end of the previous sitting. It was NEVER addressed in the final sitting period, it should've been the first matter discussed - for an update.

The legal rep for the bio family tried to get a meeting with counsel (Craddock) to discuss the
the photos and the validity of the times. Craddock refused that meeting and it was bio's legal rep that stood up in open public court and told Harriett of the refusal to meet.


Sept 1st 2014
Deck Photos
Sept 1st 2016

Those 2 dates and the photos themselves hold the key to unlocking what truly occurred on Sept 12th.

I remain very confident that, the pieces of the jigsaw will be put together by SFR in 2025. Australians have waited far too long, along with his bio family and L. The question remains, when does Laidlaw strike, that's the $1m question?
It's time to finally bring him home!

Sept 1st 2014, sunrise photo
Sept 1st 2016, ?

Still can't see how Sept 1 2016 is linked to the photos. Or can the announcement of the reward be linked to information about the photos. But why no action. Still confused.

 

[LRitz]

Certainly a panic situation if you immediately drive off a few km away without telling anyone, before searching the house and garden, before looking next door and down the street, asking neighbours etc. And he's only been gone 5 minutes.

And don't check to see that someone is keeping an eye on your 4 year old FD.

 

[LRitz]

The theory about FM is definitely an "official" theory of the Police, it was even stated in Court.

In court, one of the detectives, Andrew Lonergan, said “We believe (William’s body) was disposed” near the house in Kendall, on the Mid North Coast of NSW, where William was reported missing on 12 September 2014.
Police suspect the three-year-old died after falling from the house’s veranda, that his foster mother discovered him, and she chose to conceal this by putting his body in her mother’s grey Mazda 3 for the two-minute drive to the crossroads of Batar Creek Road and Cobb & Co Road.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/alarming-results-as-cops-william-tyrrell-theory-tested/news-story/10eea04ebb4e42406c4ca6561ae81ee8

Is "suspect" in ..."police suspect" , a bit like saying - we think, or we have a theory, or it is not impossible that this could have happened in our opinion only.
So it was an official idea that could have been possible.

it doesn't sound like saying that the police know, or the police have evidence, or the police are convinced. IMO

 

[Earls Smother]

And don't check to see that someone is keeping an eye on your 4 year old FD.

Think about what you're saying here. She knows there is another adult in the house, on the patio, or wherever with her foster daughter.

If I became aware that my daughter playing outside was missing, and I knew my other daughter was inside with another capable adult, the LAST thing I would think about, is the wellbeing of the one who ISN'T missing. It is just not logical. In a panic situation, all focus is directed towards the source of the panic - that is how we are wired.

The focus towards the reason for the panic, also means that a lot of peripheral stuff is not noticed. Hence when questioned later, things can be a blur. That is all totally normal human behaviour, that people somehow want to use as a negative.

 

[LRitz]

The question is, does and what evidence do police have to support their theory that
William died after falling from a balcony?
was transported in FGM’s car by FM?and
was disposed of by FM?

They spent a lot of time and money and, as far as we know at the moment, to come up with nothing. So this theory is still there but must have gone down the list.

 

[winyhill]

Counsel Assisting Gerard Craddock SC's opening address on Monday explored the police theory about the foster mother's movements at the time of the boy's disappearance.

He said the theory was he died in an accident.

"Police assert that she must've quickly resolved that if the accidental death were to be discovered she might lose [custody of another child in their care]," he said.

"Police assert that in that frame of mind she placed William in her mother's car and after alerting [a neighbour] to William's disappearance, drove the mother's car down to Batar Creek Road and placed William's body somewhere in undergrowth and then returned [home] to 48 Benaroon Drive and called the police via triple-0."


And then this, which indicates they are not relying on her version:

Mr Craddock told the hearing on Monday that the foster mother had no recollection of the precise time she drove her mother's car from the house after the boy vanished on the morning of September 12, 2014.

So that indicates that the current Police have dismissed Jubelin's hypothesis that the drive had to be before she met with AMS. Does that mean they have also dismissed AMS's evidence that she heard the FF's voice when FM first approached her?

But what they haven't explained is:

1. After alerting AMS, I cant see that she (AMS) would not have noticed the car either coming or going. Even though she didn't start searching then, she would have been on alert after knowing he was missing.

2. What happened to the body? Are we supposed to believe the Police theory that in just a couple of minutes she was able to hide/bury the body such that it was not found through the huge search that followed. And everyone in the area on high alert and watching/looking for months afterwards. And the dogs didn't find it. And no neighbourhood dogs alerted on it? What is she, some kind of ninja?

 

[Earls Smother]

So that indicates that the current Police have dismissed Jubelin's hypothesis that the drive had to be before she met with AMS. Does that mean they have also dismissed AMS's evidence that she heard the FF's voice when FM first approached her?

But what they haven't explained is:

1. After alerting AMS, I cant see that she (AMS) would not have noticed the car either coming or going. Even though she didn't start searching then, she would have been on alert after knowing he was missing.

2. What happened to the body? Are we supposed to believe the Police theory that in just a couple of minutes she was able to hide/bury the body such that it was not found through the huge search that followed. And everyone in the area on high alert and watching/looking for months afterwards. And the dogs didn't find it. And no neighbourhood dogs alerted on it? What is she, some kind of ninja?

Where is this hypothesis of Jubelin?

See above from Shorsky (and 31550 adding the book reference). Jubelin corrected FM to say the drive was AFTER the meeting with AMS. She thinks it was before, but he disagrees with her on that.

 

[LRitz]

So that indicates that the current Police have dismissed Jubelin's hypothesis that the drive had to be before she met with AMS. Does that mean they have also dismissed AMS's evidence that she heard the FF's voice when FM first approached her?

But what they haven't explained is:

1. After alerting AMS, I cant see that she (AMS) would not have noticed the car either coming or going. Even though she didn't start searching then, she would have been on alert after knowing he was missing.

2. What happened to the body? Are we supposed to believe the Police theory that in just a couple of minutes she was able to hide/bury the body such that it was not found through the huge search that followed. And everyone in the area on high alert and watching/looking for months afterwards. And the dogs didn't find it. And no neighbourhood dogs alerted on it? What is she, some kind of ninja?

Do they think that there were two drives?

 

[winyhill]

But I was not referring to service at the house. I was talking about service on Batar Creek Road . Which was very clear in my post. Don't twist what I say because it doesn't fit your narrative

What is YOUR narrative?

I dont have a fixed theory because I have never seen any real evidence that even shows that he didn't just wander off.

IMO, the "five minutes" was probably 15, possibly even 20. So IF he wandered off he had plenty of time to get outside the initial search zone. I know people say it was impossible but there are plenty of other missing child cases where they have wandered much, much further than it was believed they could. And also, plenty of cases where they are found very close, in areas that have already been searched, and the searchers believed that it was impossible that they could have been missed. Young toddlers like that are pretty slippery little creatures, and very unpredictable.

Then there is the abduction theory. I have explained why I think that IF it was abduction, it was a targeted, planned abduction, not for money, but to pressure the foster family (no idea as to which one of them) into either saying something or NOT saying something. Possibly business related?? That seems pretty unbelievable. But more credible than the same scenario for the biological family, possibly related to the father's stay in prison. Nah, I dont think so.

Then the current Police theory, which they must have some credible source for. But IF it happened as they allege, no body is the problem with that. For that to work, there had to have been a second person to move the body further afield, and not into the adjoining forest. It would require vacant, unvisited private land. And it would had had to happen pretty damn quick at that. Does anyone have a theory as to when that could have happened after the search started at, say 11am? IF that theory is correct, (surely, eventually, the Police will get it right) then it seems to me, she assumed the body would be found quite quickly and the blame sheeted home to a hit and run. Wandered off, got hit. No plan to further move the body. But why wasn't the body found? It should have been found within hours.
WHAT happened to it? WHO happened to it? and WHY?

But whatever happened, it will be something unbelievable, that's for sure. But I don't believe this is ever going to be solved now. It could be one of those things people are still arguing about in 400 years. Like the Mary Celeste.

 

[winyhill]

It's not narrative, what I said about internet/ phone was fact. And I never mentioned BCR, I was talking about FGM house.
Do you have evidence to support your claim that it's different on BCR?

Back then, no reception at all on that side of town in the bottom of the valley.

Where is this hypothesis of Jubelin?

See above from Shorsky (and 31550 adding the book reference). Jubelin corrected FM to say the drive was AFTER the meeting with AMS. She thinks it was before, but he disagrees with her on that.

Sorry, typo, I meant to say that Jubelin argues it was after, current Police allegation is before. So they have ditched what he thought he had established.

 

[31550]

Sept 1st 2014, sunrise photo
Sept 1st 2016, ?

Still can't see how Sept 1 2016 is linked to the photos. Or can the announcement of the reward be linked to information about the photos. But why no action. Still confused.

When people leave obscure cryptic clues without explanation, then refuse to elaborate, or disappear, perhaps their intention is to confuse? Or perhaps they are confused themselves?

 

[LRitz]

Can I just take you back to "This would be on her phone if she hadn't deleted various text messages that day."? Is this proven? Your foster child goes missing and you delete texts??

The foster mother, known as SD, was grilled about deleting text messages from the foster father on the day William disappeared, and about seeing two mysterious cars that no one else living in the street canvassed by police could remember.​

William Tyrrell foster mother's never before seen police interview

A police interview with William Tyrrell 's foster mother shows she gave confused and varying accounts of what happened on the toddler's last morning alive.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sorry if repeating other posts. (Just making catch up).

This sounds like that there was possibly more than one text / message that FM deleted. Is this saying that the FM and FF were in communication that day and before the "back in 5" text.

FGM did say in her walkthrough that she did not know how FF found out. But then says words to the effect that ...FM would have phoned him. So FGM also thought it was possible that they were talking.

 

[31550]

Back then, no reception at all on that side of town in the bottom of the valley.

You seem very certain of this? Did you live in the area in 2014, or somehow have access to historical phone tower details?
Are you suggesting there was no phone reception at the corner of BCR and Benaroon Dve in 2014, or are you talking about further along BCR?

 

[Lady O]

Sorry if repeating other posts. (Just making catch up).

This sounds like that there was possibly more than one text / message that FM deleted. Is this saying that the FM and FF were in communication that day and before the "back in 5" text.

FGM did say in her walkthrough that she did not know how FF found out. But then says words to the effect that ...FM would have phoned him. So FGM also thought it was possible that they were talking.

And yet, FF says he didn't know till he arrived back at FGM's.