Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[passball]

Sorry, I meant I took it that FF had talked to her the night before William went missing, in that maybe he’d said he was going into Lakewood in the morning for a work meeting and needed to pick up a script.

Yes, I remember the same thing.
The FGM had talked about the Chemist hours with FF the night before, Thursday night.

 

[passball]

Don't forget.
When FF was in the Chemist he was in q work call and said to the person he had to get home. This was while he was in the Chemist, not when he left.
Sounded a bit unprofessional to say on a work call, unless it was an emergency.

 

[31550]

The question is why would she discuss it at all? Indeed the detectives should have cautioned them not to discuss it so that her testimony was hers. It is a problem in.my view

The problem was that it was just a walkthrough and not a formal interview or sworn testimony, so no caution. Before any of these walkthroughs, formal, sworn, independent witness statements should have been taken from all adult witnesses.

 

[31550]

Yes, I remember the same thing.
The FGM had talked about the Chemist hours with FF the night before, Thursday night.

Yeah but also all 'narrative' and not proven by any direct evidence.

Accept nothing, Believe nothing, Challenge everything.

 

[Underarrest_]

Don't forget.
When FF was in the Chemist he was in q work call and said to the person he had to get home. This was while he was in the Chemist, not when he left.
Sounded a bit unprofessional to say on a work call, unless it was an emergency.

Yes the 10.30 timeline has always been interesting. Maybe just a person who gets home exactly when they say they will.

 

[passball]

Yes the 10.30 timeline has always been interesting. Maybe just a person who gets home exactly when they say they will.

Then FF should remember exact times if that's the case.

 

[passball]

Yeah but also all 'narrative' and not proven by any direct evidence.

Accept nothing, Believe nothing, Challenge everything.

There has to be something to believe though.
Atm I believe the kids were in daycare even though William wasn't signed out.
I believe the cats were looked after.
I believe William was at Macca's despite the photo being grainy.
I believe the FM called Spedding qt 9.03.
That's about it.
Also very hard to challenge, in here, without someone saying I'm silly or suggesting I'm trolling.

 

[31550]

There has to be something to believe though.
Atm I believe the kids were in daycare even though William wasn't signed out.
I believe the cats were looked after.
I believe William was at Macca's despite the photo being grainy.
I believe the FM called Spedding qt 9.03.
That's about it.
Also very hard to challenge, in here, without someone saying I'm silly or suggesting I'm trolling.

There is some direct evidence, and there is evidence provided by independent multiple eyewitnesses with no vested interest.
There is also narrative, some of which is logical and consistent with known facts, and some of which is illogical, and inconsistent with known facts.
I'm suggesting we should question all narrative, and be prepared to accept it if it's consistent with known facts, but question it when it is illogical or inconsistent.
In this case, many things have been woven into the narrative and treated as 'facts', when they are actually unproven. Thats why the case remains unsolved IMO.

 

[Poppy Penny]

There has to be something to believe though.
Atm I believe the kids were in daycare even though William wasn't signed out.
I believe the cats were looked after.
I believe William was at Macca's despite the photo being grainy.
I believe the FM called Spedding qt 9.03.
That's about it.
Also very hard to challenge, in here, without someone saying I'm silly or suggesting I'm trolling.

Your opinions are just as valid as the next persons passball

 

[shorsky]

No evidence it was deliberately concealed. But denied by FGM in her walkthrough, so she either lied, forgot, or didn't hear the call.
No idea why she would do any of those 3.

I think it’s quite possible that FGM had no idea that FM had made the call to Spedding - after all she had explained to FM that things take time etc, and that Spedding was waiting on parts.

It was FM who was angry / frustrated (whatever adjective you choose) about the WM not working & I can imagine her thinking she can change the situation. Not hard to find his phone number - a quick Google or even possibly his card on the fridge, in the laundry or in FGM’s teledex

I do wonder why FM was so frustrated by the non-working WM, particularly as her Mum seemed fine with it.
Yes she had young children there, but it was only for 2 nights.
Yes William didn’t yet have night bladder control, however he wore a nappy at night
(actually I think FM said of their stop after leaving McDonalds that it was to put the children’s pull-ups on - not to ‘put William’s pull-up on’, but please do correct me if I’m wrong on that.

However, I can’t imagine the FF would sleep in a bed that’s wet from William’s urine, so I doubt there were wet sheets to deal with.
Possibly some PJs that could do with a freshen up, but how hard would that be to do by hand ..

 

[shorsky]

A bit confusing that the tennis club is moved since 2014. But it has been pointed out that you can reach Lakewood by Logans Crossing rd that also has a bridge over the river. It does not add that much time to the trip.
Does add a degree of difficulty with car swap.Would FF have time to circle back, which would have been a 10 minute trip.

FM was at Benaroon drive on the phone at 9:03 and also at 9:35 for the photos. That would however give her about 25 minutes travelling time.

I’m just trying to understand the perceived reason for the vehicle swap.

Is it a thought that FM actually used FF 4WD for the suggested ‘body transfer’ to places unknown ?
I guess that would widen the possibilities of the end location
* So car swap happens b4 the iconic photo taking around 9.35 am
* Photos taken, then W is disposed of, using FF vehicle to remove him from the #48 property
* No need to check the FF vehicle as he had perfect alibi for that morning, vehicle seen passing CCTV enroute to Lakewood for his very important meeting, meeting verified with client to have taken place, no doubt his mobile data location verified he was logged in at Lakewood, but to solidify the alibi was the pharmacy receipt, for medication which he’d made such a big deal about with FGM as being so necessary to obtain that morning.
* FM tells story of driving off in FGM car, ensuring that was the vehicle of focus
* No need to be concerned about checks on FGM car as it wasn’t involved in W’s disappearance

WoW, what a conspiracy that brings up - planned from the outset & fully involves FF also

* and what a huge reliance on no one seeing the vehicles. I think the risk of someone saying ‘ I saw FF vehicle driving here at 9.10 am (as an example)’ would out way any suggestion of this happening. Far too much risk.
* much less risk to use FGM car, as it was supposed to be there, and in case anyone saw anything, it was covered by FM saying she went for a drive to look for William

I struggle to comprehend anyone harming a child, but I know they do.
I struggle to comprehend a Carer / parent / foster parent etc harming a child, but I know they do.
I don’t want to belief guilt on the part of these particular foster parents / foster mother
I’m trying so hard to remain open minded, but it’s getting harder & harder - in the public domain they just do nothing to help their cause. …and despite the fact that they can’t be oblivious to all the things that raise suspicion, they do nothing to help make things clearer.

Upper most in my mind is that little boy.
I just pray that his demise was quick & painless, as I don’t feel he’s still alive. In his name, I’d like to see justice, but that will come, whether in this life of the next.
For all those who care about him, I’d like to see them have answers. Having said that, I think maybe (and they might correct me) it’s time to leave it, stop rubbing it in their face, let them move through the natural grieving process, where you come to a stage of ‘never forgetting but learning to live with it’.

 

[shorsky]

Re phone call to Spedding at 9:03.

I said previously that the phone call had some questions.
It is made early. If it was any early it would have been before business hours (especially in Kendall ).
Everybody knows. The part has not been delivered. The machine can not be fixed until the part arrives. Ringing up and making a fuss will not speed things up, and could ruffle feathers.
Fosters are in Kendall for only a couple of days. They do not need the washing machine.
The FGM will be able to catch up on the washing later.
The FM omits the phone call in her statement
the FGM seems to deny any phone calls in her walkthrough.

Easy explanation is that FM just wants to remind Spedding that it is important for FGM to have the machine fixed. FM just overlooked and forgot to mention this call in her first statement. FGM did not know that FM called Spedding, but this is a bit hard to believe.(FGM says she is in the kitchen around this time having breakfast with the children, and why wouldn't FM have told FGM that she is giving him a call?).

Other possibilities. FM wanted to know if Spedding was coming on Friday.

Or, FM would know that phone records would be looked at by police, and FM wanted proof that she was at the house at 9:03.

I’m on a late catch-up so apologies to everyone who comes across my 2 bobs worth, long after it’s been done & dusted

I agree with your sentiments LRitz, except that I think at 9am FGM was washing up, while others were outside on the patio - from my recollection of what FGM said in her walkthrough.

And so I wonder at what time FGM arrived on the patio, got settled in her chair and engrossed in the newspaper for the photo shoot that occurred around 9.30 am.

 

[shorsky]

There have been reports that FMs sister was visiting FGM in the days before William disappeared. Would be good to know where she came from, where she stayed, what car she drove, and when she left Kendall. Did she leave to avoid FM? Why wasn't she there searching?

How many sisters does FM have ?
I thought it was her sister that FM drove to the airport to pick-up amidst all the turmoil of William being missing.
And I thought it was this sister who then took FGM to a hotel / whatever, away from #48 … . whether that was at the request of FGM of others, who knows.

 

[shorsky]

Agree, the short time between calls. And they allege they are in the kitchen with the kids having breakfast immediately after FF leaves. So at least one of them would have been able to answer the call or at least have heard the phone ring (if it is true that this was breakfast time). And FGM denies any calls, and does not mention calls in or out in her "(which way would I have gone") walkthrough. Maybe FM was not there after the 9:03 call. There maybe was just three for breakfast as FGM said (i.e. FGM, William and FD). So where was FM?

William being uncontrollable, the house was in chaos is possible but is speculation.

I wonder if the question might be ‘where was FF between 8.00 am and when he was clocked on the tennis court CCTV some 50 mins or so later.

If I recall correctly, FGM said she was up for breakfast around 8am and he had already left. .. noting that ‘around 8 am’ may actually become closer to 8.20 - 8.30 am by the time they sat down to eat. According to FGM it was quite a breakfast, but I’m a little wary of that suggestion, considering her shopping trip was well before she was made aware of their early arrival.

However, she may be one who has a well stocked freezer & pantry for emergencies. . and irrespective, I’m sure there was cereal & bread in the house, and there has to be enough time to finish eating, clean up & be totally settled on the patio for those photos that carry so much importance.

Do we think that Police have been privy to similarly focused & closeup photos of L that were taken at the same time ?

 

[shorsky]

Well, you know, some people hear the sound of hooves and immediately think a herd of zebras are galloping past.

The lack of details of the day, whist annoying to us, is not unusual in an otherwise unremarkable start to the day. The memory issues also are not uncommon as result of a stressful situation after WT went missing, (or some other event occurred).

That the FM had anything to do with WT's disappearance is only ONE theory that the Police have put forward since that day. They have not alleged she and or FF/FGM planned and executed a murder.

100% correct - that awful scenario has not been alleged. And certainly I agree that a missing child conjures various possibilities. ..eg did he wander, did he get lost, did he fall in the dam, did he fall down a mine shaft, was he abducted, did he meet with foul play etc.

And I’m with you as far as how stress can impact one’s memory ( just ask my addled brain, no more room for all the boxes I’ve sealed up and stored there !)

However, on a very serious note, I’ll tell you that if someone in my care was missing, I would have every minute of that day / time absolutely clarified and documented. I’d be wracking my brain for the minutest missing bits of the puzzle. I’d be plaguing investors for what they’d found, and I wouldn’t rest until I had answers.

That’s just me.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

There has to be something to believe though.
Atm I believe the kids were in daycare even though William wasn't signed out.
I believe the cats were looked after.
I believe William was at Macca's despite the photo being grainy.
I believe the FM called Spedding qt 9.03.
That's about it.
Also very hard to challenge, in here, without someone saying I'm silly or suggesting I'm trolling.

This has been a repeated argument by new posters. Some have recently even come and were experienced with the case but left because they felt debate was intentionally stifled trying to keep the focus on one train of thought......describing 31550 as a gatekeeper to shoot down dissenting views.. I don't think that was intentional but that is a concern if debate is stifled at all. At this stage officialdom doesn't have the answer so there must be errors in understanding and or approach which is more conducive to wider opinion.

I'm sure that 31550 intent is to prevent factual errors happening that might over time engender group misconceptions. Must be a happy compromise there somewhere

 

[31550]

I wonder if the question might be ‘where was FF between 8.00 am and when he was clocked on the tennis court CCTV some 50 mins or so later.

If I recall correctly, FGM said she was up for breakfast around 8am and he had already left. .. noting that ‘around 8 am’ may actually become closer to 8.20 - 8.30 am by the time they sat down to eat. According to FGM it was quite a breakfast, but I’m a little wary of that suggestion, considering her shopping trip was well before she was made aware of their early arrival.

However, she may be one who has a well stocked freezer & pantry for emergencies. . and irrespective, I’m sure there was cereal & bread in the house, and there has to be enough time to finish eating, clean up & be totally settled on the patio for those photos that carry so much importance.

Do we think that Police have been privy to similarly focused & closeup photos of L that were taken at the same time ?

The breakfast narrative is a shambles.
The breakfast inventory is extensive: toast, scrambled eggs, orange juice. For four people, including kids who would require some assistance or supervision. It would take some time to prepare and eat. At least 20 minutes?
It seems FF was in a hurry, didn't have time for a full breakfast, so grabbed coffee and toast and then headed off before or while the others sat down to eat. This puts breakfast around 9am (as he passed the tennis club just before 9). But they couldn't have been having breakfast at the same time the phone calls happened, because nobody heard the phone ring.
They couldn't have done the bike riding until after FF left otherwise his car would have been in the way, and he would have seen it. So the bike riding seems to be after breakfast and after FF leaves.
FGM wasn't aware of the FM calling to Spedding, but she did the dishes after breakfast. The phone would have been near the kitchen and dining area. So the phone call (9.03) wasn't while the dishes were done. Or did FM take the cordless phone outside and call Spedding while watching kids ride bikes?
And then how long did they ride bikes for? Long enough for both kids to crash, and for the strange car to turn around.
This doesn't leave much time to get set up for drawing on the verandah and take the 5 photographs by 9.37. At which time William got bored and ran off. But FGM says 'about an hour' on the verandah?

FGM says FM made the breakfast. I find it hard to believe she would have been capable of doing so on her own while adequately supervising two boisterous kids who were fighting and playing in a strange house. I think FF leaving the house would have put unusual pressure on FM.

I reckon it's more likely that breakfast WAS earlier as FGM says, but I also speculate that maybe FGM was not a participant in breakfast (3 of us, no 4 of us). I speculate that FGM didn't want to deal with the rowdy kids and/or FM. So FM made breakfast some time after ~8am while FF played with the kids. This probably created some tension because FF needed to get going to his meeting so didn't have time to sit down and eat. Then FGM got up and possibly ate with them after FF had left and the kids were occupied with eating. Then again FGM and FM went their separate ways.

I speculate that in the narrative FGM didn't want to admit to tension between herself and FM, so she inserted herself in the breakfast (everyone was happy) - that's why she is really vague about the timings.

The bike riding may or may not have happened at all. It is only in the FM narrative, not anyone else's. No witnesses. It may have been made up to explain damage to plants in the garden, or to allow for a nonexistent car to be spotted, or something else.

 

[31550]

This has been a repeated argument by new posters. Some have recently even come and were experienced with the case but left because they felt debate was intentionally stifled trying to keep the focus on one train of thought......describing 31550 as a gatekeeper to shoot down dissenting views.. I don't think that was intentional but that is a concern if debate is stifled at all. At this stage officialdom doesn't have the answer so there must be errors in understanding and or approach which is more conducive to wider opinion.

I'm sure that 31550 intent is to prevent factual errors happening that might over time engender group misconceptions. Must be a happy compromise there somewhere

Yeah look I know I am bit blunt sometimes but after 10 years it's frustrating when people still post blatant errors, knowingly or unknowingly.
It's unfortunate that there are still media sources with erroneous statements.
When I first came to this thread I also made a few slips and got blasted, even banned at least once (Thanks, Kurve!)
I think you have to be prepared to cop some flak if you post something contentious, or at least engage in healthy debate without running off and sooking. And I THINK, when I've made mistakes I have owned up to them?
Most of us want to get to the truth.

 

[31550]

How many sisters does FM have ?
I thought it was her sister that FM drove to the airport to pick-up amidst all the turmoil of William being missing.
And I thought it was this sister who then took FGM to a hotel / whatever, away from #48 … . whether that was at the request of FGM of others, who knows.

Not 100% sure but I think she has one sister and two brothers. At least one brother is married, so there is a sister-in-law as well, who may have been referred to as a 'sister'.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Yeah look I know I am bit blunt sometimes but after 10 years it's frustrating when people still post blatant errors, knowingly or unknowingly.
It's unfortunate that there are still media sources with erroneous statements.
When I first came to this thread I also made a few slips and got blasted, even banned at least once (Thanks, Kurve!)
I think you have to be prepared to cop some flak if you post something contentious, or at least engage in healthy debate without running off and sooking. And I THINK, when I've made mistakes I have owned up to them?
Most of us want to get to the truth.

I don't have a problem correcting people for known errors. That's a service to the thread. The problem may come if you correct someone when in fact it's not an error at all but your own misconception. That becomes a problem.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The breakfast narrative is a shambles.
The breakfast inventory is extensive: toast, scrambled eggs, orange juice. For four people, including kids who would require some assistance or supervision. It would take some time to prepare and eat. At least 20 minutes?
It seems FF was in a hurry, didn't have time for a full breakfast, so grabbed coffee and toast and then headed off before or while the others sat down to eat. This puts breakfast around 9am (as he passed the tennis club just before 9). But they couldn't have been having breakfast at the same time the phone calls happened, because nobody heard the phone ring.
They couldn't have done the bike riding until after FF left otherwise his car would have been in the way, and he would have seen it. So the bike riding seems to be after breakfast and after FF leaves.
FGM wasn't aware of the FM calling to Spedding, but she did the dishes after breakfast. The phone would have been near the kitchen and dining area. So the phone call (9.03) wasn't while the dishes were done. Or did FM take the cordless phone outside and call Spedding while watching kids ride bikes?
And then how long did they ride bikes for? Long enough for both kids to crash, and for the strange car to turn around.
This doesn't leave much time to get set up for drawing on the verandah and take the 5 photographs by 9.37. At which time William got bored and ran off. But FGM says 'about an hour' on the verandah?

FGM says FM made the breakfast. I find it hard to believe she would have been capable of doing so on her own while adequately supervising two boisterous kids who were fighting and playing in a strange house. I think FF leaving the house would have put unusual pressure on FM.

I reckon it's more likely that breakfast WAS earlier as FGM says, but I also speculate that maybe FGM was not a participant in breakfast (3 of us, no 4 of us). I speculate that FGM didn't want to deal with the rowdy kids and/or FM. So FM made breakfast some time after ~8am while FF played with the kids. This probably created some tension because FF needed to get going to his meeting so didn't have time to sit down and eat. Then FGM got up and possibly ate with them after FF had left and the kids were occupied with eating. Then again FGM and FM went their separate ways.

I speculate that in the narrative FGM didn't want to admit to tension between herself and FM, so she inserted herself in the breakfast (everyone was happy) - that's why she is really vague about the timings.

The bike riding may or may not have happened at all. It is only in the FM narrative, not anyone else's. No witnesses. It may have been made up to explain damage to plants in the garden, or to allow for a nonexistent car to be spotted, or something else.

Throw in the fact kids were heard playing by neighbours just before then just after 9 two separate neighbours. Yes I believe breakfast was much earlier too. Which then raises the issue that FF was there with FGM during this time when she had suggested she didn't see him and he was already gone. A lie which adds further weight to the fact 8 v 9 wasn't simply a cognitive mistake by FGM but rather intentional..That raises the spectre that they were shifting the narrative around sequence to hide something........I speculate that something was about FF in the 8 to 8.40 period. We are led to believe that time is innocent but is it if they are lying about it?

 

[LRitz]

I seem to recall FGM gave an itemised list for breakfast and it was a cooked meal eggs toast OJ (orange juice) etc. That takes a little more time to prepare. FF supposedly left at 8.40 but the kids were heard playing just before 9 and sometime between 9 and 9.30 by separate neighbours. And allegedly FF wasn't there when FGM was up. "We were then out here"...Ponting to verandah and "this is where it all happened" likewise.

If you listen to the walkthrough thoroughly the FGM spends a disproportionate amount of time trying to convince that FF and car wasn't there, had left before 8 , had to go to an online conference, was really keen to get his scrip, wasn't there for breakfast (but she did hear him in kitchen).

The breakfast narrative is a shambles.
The breakfast inventory is extensive: toast, scrambled eggs, orange juice. For four people, including kids who would require some assistance or supervision. It would take some time to prepare and eat. At least 20 minutes?

I speculate that in the narrative FGM didn't want to admit to tension between herself and FM, so she inserted herself in the breakfast (everyone was happy) - that's why she is really vague about the timings.

The bike riding may or may not have happened at all. It is only in the FM narrative, not anyone else's. No witnesses. It may have been made up to explain damage to plants in the garden, or to allow for a nonexistent car to be spotted, or something else.

So here we are after all this time back to the shambles of the breakfast table having scrambled eggs, wheatbix, toast. And don't forget the orange juice.
I guess there was breakfast. That FD would have also said that she sat at the table with FGM and had breakfast. I guess there were egg shells in the garbage, if they had bothered to look. But we can't be sure what time was breakfast and who was there. My new take on breakfast and FGM walkthrough, for what its worth.

FGM says she was awake as usual at 7:30. Maybe this was her first slip up (not scripted) because she then goes on to put breakfast with the children early at around 8. Whereas FM says breakfast for the children was after FF left around 9.
I also thought same as ARB that FGM - spends a disproportionate amount of time trying to convince that FF and car wasn't there. interesting that it could include the car. Was this to support FF's alibi that FF had left and William was still in the house.

3 of us for breakfast, No, 4 of us. Myself, and the 2 children and FM is in the kitchen preparing the breakfast.

So was the slip up of 3 for breakfast, because it was FM who was not there. FGM then adds FM as not at the table but in the kitchen. What if breakfast is prepared before 9. FM makes call to Bill Spedding 9:03. FGM and 2 children sit down to breakfast, but FM leaves. Kids eat breakfas with FGM and FM returns at 9:30 to take 9:35 photos on patio.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

So here we are after all this time back to the shambles of the breakfast table having scrambled eggs, wheatbix, toast. And don't forget the orange juice.
I guess there was breakfast. That FD would have also said that she sat at the table with FGM and had breakfast. I guess there were egg shells in the garbage, if they had bothered to look. But we can't be sure what time was breakfast and who was there. My new take on breakfast and FGM walkthrough, for what its worth.

FGM says she was awake as usual at 7:30. Maybe this was her first slip up (not scripted) because she then goes on to put breakfast with the children early at around 8. Whereas FM says breakfast for the children was after FF left around 9.
I also thought same as ARB that FGM - spends a disproportionate amount of time trying to convince that FF and car wasn't there. interesting that it could include the car. Was this to support FF's alibi that FF had left and William was still in the house.

3 of us for breakfast, No, 4 of us. Myself, and the 2 children and FM is in the kitchen preparing the breakfast.

So was the slip up of 3 for breakfast, because it was FM who was not there. FGM then adds FM as not at the table but in the kitchen. What if breakfast is prepared before 9. FM makes call to Bill Spedding 9:03. FGM and 2 children sit down to breakfast, but FM leaves. Kids eat breakfas with FGM and FM returns at 9:30 to take 9:35 photos on patio.

Yes. I read the same issues entirely. She slipped up that she was usually up at 7.30 then immediately redirects to what was rehearsed that she was actually up late almost same sentence!!! Bear in mind she was woken by the kids going into her room?? Did that
happen late? I don't think so

Conclusion : she was up early but lied

She has to be up late so that she failed to see FF and if she was up late it also means that the picture on the verandah with her in the chair has to be after FF left and legitimise the 9.37 time.

in effect they are using her being up late and not seeing FF to make clear disconnect and therefore legitimise the 9.37 photo. Omg that is ingenious. Use a geriatric to create the alibi.

I know I'm left field but I'm being taken where THEY lead me with their lies and deception. You see it's impossible that the photo was earlier IF FF was already gone and FGM didn't see him nor get up early.

You only lie about stuff that's important to hide the truth. 8 to 9 isn't supposed to be important but is if it legitimises the alibi of 9.37 photo

 

[LRitz]

I’m just trying to understand the perceived reason for the vehicle swap.

* and what a huge reliance on no one seeing the vehicles. I think the risk of someone saying ‘ I saw FF vehicle driving here at 9.10 am (as an example)’ would out way any suggestion of this happening. Far too much risk.
* much less risk to use FGM car, as it was supposed to be there, and in case anyone saw anything, it was covered by FM saying she went for a drive to look for William

Using any vehicle was a risk of being seen. The investigation would have been looking at any vehicles around Benaroon from the start. But it seems that they have little information, or not reported anyway. As far as we know Mazda was not seen. So there is no proof of the the Mazda drive between 9:37 and 10:30.

The FM alleges she drove the car. This is not proof.

There would not be CCTV in the area around Benaroon. If you do not have your phone there are no pings. A risk you could be seen by neighbours or passing traffic. But before the evident would any one take much notice. There was no call for anyone to look for specifically for Land Rover in the vicinity of Benaroon. After all it was assumed that the Land Rover was with the FF at Lakewood. You could take the dirt road into the forest and unlikely to be seen. The search was not started until both cars were parked.

The scenario of moving a body at a later time or that night, when everyone was on alert and possible still searching the area would have also been a risk. To hide a body in less than an hour, in a panic, would also be a risk, and very difficult.

 

[LRitz]

Yes. I read the same issues entirely. She slipped up that she was usually up at 7.30 then immediately redirects to what was rehearsed that she was actually up late almost same sentence!!! Bear in mind she was woken by the kids going into her room?? Did that
happen late? I don't think so

Conclusion : she was up early but lied

She has to be up late so that she failed to see FF and if she was up late it also means that the picture on the verandah with her in the chair has to be after FF left and legitimise the 9.37 time.

in effect they are using her being up late and not seeing FF to make clear disconnect and therefore legitimise the 9.37 photo. Omg that is ingenious. Use a geriatric to create the alibi.

I know I'm left field but I'm being taken where THEY lead me with their lies and deception. You see it's impossible that the photo was earlier IF FF was already gone and FGM didn't see him nor get up early.

You only lie about stuff that's important to hide the truth. 8 to 9 isn't supposed to be important but is if it legitimises the alibi of 9.37 photo

Yes. All confusing. Planned slip ups or not! Whatever happened, the FGM adds a degree of truth to the narratives. Everyone will believe her.

I also think it is possible that the FGM was not to be involved with the actions of the morning. She did not know about where they slept, she did not see the FF leave or his car. She did not see the mummy monsters game. She did not know about any phone calls. Simple - she gets up, FF has left, she has breakfast with kids, kids and FM go outside but she does not see what they are doing, she does dishes, and then sits on patio, and sees William runaround the side of the house. FF comes back, but she does not see his car, does not know he knows. Then it is "a blur". The less she knows, the less the stories are going to conflict.