Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above initials. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Earls Smother]

As I understand it, the best version of the foster mother’s account is her walkthrough. MOO

As it should be. Very early on, but enough time to straighten thoughts and memories somewhat.

 

[truecrimepath]

As it should be. Very early on, but enough time to straighten thoughts and memories somewhat.

Thoughts maybe but not memories.

The lack of ‘the drive’ in her early statement is just an enormous red flag that needs serious attention. The fact she only goes in one direction and is not seen although the alarm is raised amongst neighbours is another red flag. By her own admission getting out of the car at a random spot down near the riding club is another red flag.

You may claim she is panicking but time for a cup of tea that never goes cold. When was it made again? Red flag

I am yet to see a plausible explanation for any of this.

 

[LRitz]

That unoccupied house has always worried me

As I recall it was well known that the owners were away. So not really unoccupied. Didn't neighbours Crabb collect their mail. And someone knew where to get a key on the Friday to search. Benaroon drive locals who live in the quietest street in the quietest town, would have been aware anything odd in that house.

The unoccupied house next door to FGM at 52 and the neighbours at 51 across the road from FGM's out that morning for their regular exercise meant that there was no one to see if a car travelled from 48 Benaroon drive to the state forest dirt road after about ~8:00 am. This information would have been well known by the FGM and foster family. If planning to leave 48 Benaroon Dr unseen this would be the perfect opportunity. No evidence found at FGM house - that we are aware of to date, no cadaver dog findings, police dogs indicate William was possible to have left from the driveway. The foster parents have a new Land Rover, that would have not trouble on the dirt road. CCTv puts FF at the tennis club before 9:00, so FF and FM are incorrect in the time FF left FGM's house. If FF was keen to be in Lakewood before 9:30 I would have guessed he would have been keeping an eye on the time, but he and FM give the incorrect time. FM says he was running late which is not true. I think IMO, she would have known whtat time he left. Again IMO this incorrect time is significant. If he left via the dirt road they knew that the "after 9:00" time could not be questioned.

They did not know about the CCTV at the tennis club.

(There is no house at 50 Benaroon Dr)

 

[Earls Smother]

Thoughts maybe but not memories.

The lack of ‘the drive’ in her early statement is just an enormous red flag that needs serious attention. The fact she only goes in one direction and is not seen although the alarm is raised amongst neighbours is another red flag. By her own admission getting out of the car at a random spot down near the riding club is another red flag.

You may claim she is panicking but time for a cup of tea that never goes cold. When was it made again? Red flag

I am yet to see a plausible explanation for any of this.

Ok, well why don't they lock her up then? It's so obvious that befuddled memories and doing weird stuff under pressure means you've either killed someone or covered up an accidental death.

Don't worry about any actual evidence, just lock her up. Case solved.

 

[LRitz]

100% agree. My wife did exactly what you are saying. She didn't want to worry me unnecessarily when I wasn't in a position to help immediately anyway.

FF was in a position to help immediately. He was only 10 minute drive away. He could have been already on his way back and could look for William as he approached Benaroon.

She could have asked FF to drive up to Cobb and Co road on his way back and would have saved herself a trip ( and also would have cut out about half of the posts off footyforum )

 

[Earls Smother]

FF was in a position to help immediately. He was only 10 minute drive away. He could have been already on his way back and could look for William as he approached Benaroon.

She could have asked FF to drive up to Cobb and Co road on his way back and would have saved herself a trip ( and also would have cut out about half of the posts off footyforum )

10 minutes is not immediate in a lost child situation.

As zedx said, some people (male or female) would take the initial responsibility for a situation that they were in charge of. To ring a partner immediately a) wastes time, b) potentially causes unnecessary panic, and c) reeks of "I've got myself in a bad situation, how about you fix it" i.e. not taking full responsibility.

 

[Earls Smother]

As I recall it was well known that the owners were away. So not really unoccupied. Didn't neighbours Crabb collect their mail. And someone knew where to get a key on the Friday to search. Benaroon drive locals who live in the quietest street in the quietest town, would have been aware anything odd in that house.

The unoccupied house next door to FGM at 52 and the neighbours at 51 across the road from FGM's out that morning for their regular exercise meant that there was no one to see if a car travelled from 48 Benaroon drive to the state forest dirt road after about ~8:00 am. This information would have been well known by the FGM and foster family. If planning to leave 48 Benaroon Dr unseen this would be the perfect opportunity. No evidence found at FGM house - that we are aware of to date, no cadaver dog findings, police dogs indicate William was possible to have left from the driveway. The foster parents have a new Land Rover, that would have not trouble on the dirt road. CCTv puts FF at the tennis club before 9:00, so FF and FM are incorrect in the time FF left FGM's house. If FF was keen to be in Lakewood before 9:30 I would have guessed he would have been keeping an eye on the time, but he and FM give the incorrect time. FM says he was running late which is not true. I think IMO, she would have known whtat time he left. Again IMO this incorrect time is significant. If he left via the dirt road they knew that the "after 9:00" time could not be questioned.

View attachment 2163303They did not know about the CCTV at the tennis club.

(There is no house at 50 Benaroon Dr)

Anyone looking at that map and thinking "the FF left via the dirt road" is not looking in the right place.

The car would have been covered in incriminating dirt/dust if he had done that. If he'd been through a subsequent car wash, that would have been a very telltale sign as well.

 

[truecrimepath]

Ok, well why don't they lock her up then? It's so obvious that befuddled memories and doing weird stuff under pressure means you've either killed someone or covered up an accidental death.

Don't worry about any actual evidence, just lock her up. Case solved.

I am not saying there is enough to lock her up. I am saying that ‘forgetting the drive and then describing an implausible story about it makes her a major poi.’

Did anyone see her drive the car. There appears to be witnesses.

 

[truecrimepath]

Can we talk about 35 Benaroon drive. When I was first interested in the case, I was thinking about where William could have gone.

To me that was the logical location given the layout and topography. I did a google street view and noticed the footpath forms a ridge which you can hide behind near the street.

In addition there was steel fencing near the street where you can corrall horses. This I found odd because horses are usually corralled near the house where you can feed and water them. I wondered whether it was there to attract children.

The structure is no longer there. The house went on the market about a week after William disappeared.

What is known about the occupants?

 

[Earls Smother]

I am not saying there is enough to lock her up. I am saying that ‘forgetting the drive and then describing an implausible story about it makes her a major poi.’

Did anyone see her drive the car. There appears to be witnesses.

Yes and that is why she is currently a major POI. Her versions are erratic and inconsistent, even her husband would acknowledge that.

What benefit does she gain by saying she drove if she didn't? It is odd to forget it, I agree.

Everything about her behaviour says she doesn't cope very well under stress/pressure. She is either a brilliant actress or we accept at face value that is her personality.

Devil's advocate: She says she drove because she feels like someone might have seen her. She lies about where she drove and hid the body somewhere else. That really has to be the scenario for those in the guilty corner.

So she has very little time to have done this. She can't have hidden him very well, or she'd be scratched to pieces by the dense bush. Thorough searches were conducted over a wide area. Numerous locals and others would have done bush walks and 4 wheel drives along every track in that forest. The waterways were all searched.

She also would have had to load him in the car without leaving a single sign of doing so. No cadaver scent in car. Drop sheet irrelevant IMO - even if she wrapped him in one, how does that make him harder to find? She couldn't possibly have dug a hole big enough or quickly enough to have him never found.

So where is he if she is responsible?

 

[31550]

As it should be. Very early on, but enough time to straighten thoughts and memories somewhat.

Her police statement preceded the walkthrough. Even that was a little late. Two days passed before the statement and a couple more before the walkthrough, each of which revealed embellishments to the narrative, which IMO are questionable.

The best evidence is that of the first responders : Rowley and Hudson. Note Hudson's handwritten notes which were taken on the day - her formal statement much later adds things which aren't in her notes so IMO are less reliable.

During the few days after William disappeared the key witnesses had time in private to confer and collaborate and cross pollinate their various narratives. Not ideal.

The strange cars and the FM drive and the bike riding were not in the first statements given to police. IMO this is significant.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Ok, well why don't they lock her up then? It's so obvious that befuddled memories and doing weird stuff under pressure means you've either killed someone or covered up an accidental death.

Don't worry about any actual evidence, just lock her up. Case solved.

Chris Dawson sits in jail for murdering his wife. No body. No witness. Just a series of assumed lies not proven as lies

This case has a series of lies all to promote an abduction and seemingly to hide the truth around what happened. The behaviour leakages too and talk of head injuries is problematic. No evidence of:

• mysterious cars
• U turn man
• acceptable reason for car drive

 

[Earls Smother]

Her police statement preceded the walkthrough. Even that was a little late. Two days passed before the statement and a couple more before the walkthrough, each of which revealed embellishments to the narrative, which IMO are questionable.

You say embellishments. Some would say adjustments or additions.

The best evidence is that of the first responders : Rowley and Hudson. Note Hudson's handwritten notes which were taken on the day - her formal statement much later adds things which aren't in her notes so IMO are less reliable.

Should be the case, but very hard for them to look at it from all angles. Perfectly understandable they would be focusing on "wandered off" initially.

During the few days after William disappeared the key witnesses had time in private to confer and collaborate and cross pollinate their various narratives. Not ideal.

If they did that I would have expected narratives that were obviously contrived and too similiar.

The strange cars and the FM drive and the bike riding were not in the first statements given to police. IMO this is significant.

The brain does funny things. Some people's brains do funnier things than others.

 

[truecrimepath]

Yes and that is why she is currently a major POI. Her versions are erratic and inconsistent, even her husband would acknowledge that.

What benefit does she gain by saying she drove if she didn't? It is odd to forget it, I agree.

Everything about her behaviour says she doesn't cope very well under stress/pressure. She is either a brilliant actress or we accept at face value that is her personality.

Devil's advocate: She says she drove because she feels like someone might have seen her. She lies about where she drove and hid the body somewhere else. That really has to be the scenario for those in the guilty corner.

So she has very little time to have done this. She can't have hidden him very well, or she'd be scratched to pieces by the dense bush. Thorough searches were conducted over a wide area. Numerous locals and others would have done bush walks and 4 wheel drives along every track in that forest. The waterways were all searched.

She also would have had to load him in the car without leaving a single sign of doing so. No cadaver scent in car. Drop sheet irrelevant IMO - even if she wrapped him in one, how does that make him harder to find? She couldn't possibly have dug a hole big enough or quickly enough to have him never found.

So where is he if she is responsible?

I don’t think this is what happened at all. I think if the photos were verified using physical and not electronic means then he was abducted.

If the authorities have used electronic means to verify the photos, there is an enormous question mark over the whole story. Physical analysis of the photos could potentially clear the FM of involvement imho.

Given statements by Craddock and the Coroner, I am unsure this had been done properly. The fact that the police in 2019 could not confirm when the photos were taken smacks of gross negligence/ incompetence. A proper disclosure to the public is in order. If they have done this work and it clarifies the timing how does it affect the case?

 

[Earls Smother]

Chris Dawson sits in jail for murdering his wife. No body. No witness. Just a series of assumed lies not proven as lies

This case has a series of lies all to promote an abduction and seemingly to hide the truth around what happened. The behaviour leakages too and talk of head injuries is problematic. No evidence of:

• mysterious cars
• U turn man
• acceptable reason for car drive

Dawson had shitloads of time to hide the body. Do you reckon if he had 20 minutes he would have got away with it for 40 years?

In this case, give me a scenario for where the body can reasonably be.

 

[Earls Smother]

I don’t think this is what happened at all. I think if the photos were verified using physical and not electronic means then he was abducted.

If the authorities have used electronic means to verify the photos, there is an enormous question mark over the whole story. Physical analysis of the photos could potentially clear the FM of involvement imho.

Given statements by Craddock and the Coroner, I am unsure this had been done properly. The fact that the police in 2019 could not confirm when the photos were taken smacks of gross negligence/ incompetence. A proper disclosure to the public is in order. If they have done this work and it clarifies the timing how does it affect the case?

I'll go with paragraph 1, sentence 2.

 

[truecrimepath]

Dawson had shitloads of time to hide the body. Do you reckon if he had 20 minutes he would have got away with it for 40 years?

In this case, give me a scenario for where the body can reasonably be.

When I was a child growing up in the 1970’s, we lived in the same street as Paul Dawson, Chris’s twin brother. Chris and his family were often there. We would play touch football on their front lawn on weekends and often after school. Being football players they were kind of heroes.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Dawson had shitloads of time to hide the body. Do you reckon if he had 20 minutes he would have got away with it for 40 years?

In this case, give me a scenario for where the body can reasonably be.

For a start, the window isn't 20 minutes. The window is minimum 40 min from 9.40 to 10.20....30 min if you assume the car trip was 10.10. if you want to speculate it happened after last POL ( them heard playing) the window could actually extend from 9.25 to 10.10 (upon undetected photo edits) ie 45 min. CD had a wife with young children and he tried to sell the concept she abandoned them. FM merely has to sell an abduction hoax which she successfully did for years until SFR closed the net.

My tip is Mccolloms road. It is exactly 10 min drive. Virgin bush. No houses..Off main roads being only a connector road which I suspect has minimal traffic. Same direction initially as Cobb & co..BCR is too busy. Residential areas are too risky. But a location like that where it would be outside search areas and low risk detection would be perfect to spend your 5 min to hide. There needs to be a place to pull over which I can check on GE.

The location is direct. Along BCR. Turn off Stoney Creek Rd. First right Mccolloms Rd..directly into virgin bush. Until that point it's all sporadic pieces of bush in amongst regional housing. in panic mode and knowing the area you drive straight BCR at speed then two turns only. Left then right. GE says 10 min so at speed along BCR probably 7-.8 (15 min total plus 5 min to hide). Yes perfect.... 20 min and you are back.

 

[Underarrest_]

The question to FM about the drop sheets (cloths) seems very directed.
Could a drop sheet have been seen in the car at some stage?
Are their witnesses, photos that prove FGF had these in the garage (or using them) and then photos taken after William went missing which show them gone?

 

[Underarrest_]

Yes and that is why she is currently a major POI. Her versions are erratic and inconsistent, even her husband would acknowledge that.

What benefit does she gain by saying she drove if she didn't? It is odd to forget it, I agree.

Everything about her behaviour says she doesn't cope very well under stress/pressure. She is either a brilliant actress or we accept at face value that is her personality.

Devil's advocate: She says she drove because she feels like someone might have seen her. She lies about where she drove and hid the body somewhere else. That really has to be the scenario for those in the guilty corner.

So she has very little time to have done this. She can't have hidden him very well, or she'd be scratched to pieces by the dense bush. Thorough searches were conducted over a wide area. Numerous locals and others would have done bush walks and 4 wheel drives along every track in that forest. The waterways were all searched.

She also would have had to load him in the car without leaving a single sign of doing so. No cadaver scent in car. Drop sheet irrelevant IMO - even if she wrapped him in one, how does that make him harder to find? She couldn't possibly have dug a hole big enough or quickly enough to have him never found.

So where is he if she is responsible?

I agree, if FM has dumped, buried William she’s done a very good job (so to speak.) If FM has done this she’s even told them where she did this, (according to police theory.)

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The whole problem is that were believed. That meant all searches were where a child could wander to. But a 10 min drive would take you outside the search map.

 

[Underarrest_]

The whole problem is that were believed. That meant all searches were where a child could wander to. But a 10 min drive would take you outside the search map.

This was a first mistake IMO, the police were surely looking at all angles at that stage.
That particular area (according to GJ) has been searched 3 times over several years and he hasn’t been found.
It would make sense that maybe FM moved him but police theory seems now, that this is where he was placed.
It’s very confusing.

 

[Earls Smother]

For a start, the window isn't 20 minutes. The window is minimum 40 min from 9.40 to 10.20....30 min if you assume the car trip was 10.10. if you want to speculate it happened after last POL ( them heard playing) the window could actually extend from 9.25 to 10.10 (upon undetected photo edits) ie 45 min. CD had a wife with young children and he tried to sell the concept she abandoned them. FM merely has to sell an abduction hoax which she successfully did for years until SFR closed the net.

My tip is Mccolloms road. It is exactly 10 min drive. Virgin bush. No houses..Off main roads being only a connector road which I suspect has minimal traffic. Same direction initially as Cobb & co..BCR is too busy. Residential areas are too risky. But a location like that where it would be outside search areas and low risk detection would be perfect to spend your 5 min to hide. There needs to be a place to pull over which I can check on GE.

The location is direct. Along BCR. Turn off Stoney Creek Rd. First right Mccolloms Rd..directly into virgin bush. Until that point it's all sporadic pieces of bush in amongst regional housing. in panic mode and knowing the area you drive straight BCR at speed then two turns only. Left then right. GE says 10 min so at speed along BCR probably 7-.8 (15 min total plus 5 min to hide). Yes perfect.... 20 min and you are back.

IF she did that (or similiar type spot) there would have been absolutely no time to hide the body. She would have had scratches everywhere and torn clothing if she went into the actual bush. She certainly couldn't have buried him.

All the locals know what has happened and so does 90% of the rest of Australia. Anyone driving a 4-wheel drive down there, or walking a dog etc. would have one eye out for suspicious signs IMO.

It actually wouldn't be that difficult for police to search every track within a 20 minute radius with 4-wheel drives. Especially with assistance from the SES. Would be time consuming, but doable.

He would have been found IMO.

 

[Underarrest_]

I have a question (maybe silly so bare with me but you don’t learn if you don’t ask)
as far as we know there’s no forensic evidence.
If a piece of material such as a drop sheet, piece of clothing was found but had no DNA, etc on it, would this be classed as forensic evidence?

 

[Kurve]

The question to FM about the drop sheets (cloths) seems very directed.
Could a drop sheet have been seen in the car at some stage?
Are their witnesses, photos that prove FGF had these in the garage (or using them) and then photos taken after William went missing which show them gone?

Yeh I agree. They could have asked about hessian, weed mat or any other kind of material that might be used in gardening or around the house but they asked about drop cloths.