Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Lady O]

I have looked at the eyes carefully. What you describe and I observe is pupillary accommodation. This occurs when your eyes focus on an object or person. He is looking at someone imho. If you look carefully at his eyes you will see the reflection of white sheets on the line. So much for the washing machine being in pieces.

Have a look again. Very interesting.
View attachment 2155207

Oh well, we've all visited this before. Someone else on here could see a figure in the reflection of his eyes.



Hang on a figure and a sheet - might be a ghost!!



Happy Halloween !!

 

[BFew]

No one appears interested in the trip from McDonalds but that is where my red flags are.

I can assure you that the trip from McDonalds was very much a subject of interest in the wider history of this thread.
Just can't be bothered discussing it again at this point in time, unless something jumps out of me that I need to refute, or
a new angle is proposed that i want to add to,
But appreciate you have taken the time and effort to post about it in here.

 

[31550]

I can assure you that the trip from McDonalds was very much a subject of interest in the wider history of this thread.
Just can't be bothered discussing it again at this point in time, unless something jumps out of me that I need to refute, or
a new angle is proposed that i want to add to,
But appreciate you have taken the time and effort to post about it in here.

I wonder if SFR ever interviewed the Hamburglar and checked out his alibi?

 

[js47]

TCP we all have our ideas about what happened. The clever person cops the posts on the chin and look at their value.
Fact we know William went to Macas. Because of the photo (that has not been manipulated). Because the kid on the counter got paid that night.
What we don’t know is what time they arrived because the FGM did not get paid that night even though she should have been if she knew what was ahead of her.
She did not have her photo taken.
One day you might be able to tell us all you were wrong and I was right.
Are you saying William is some where between Macas and Kendal on the pacific highway?
Are you saying they turned up he was dying or dead?
Are you saying they took him out that night and buried him?
Possible but highly unlikely.
FD would have blabbed to the police little girls love detail they are into detail. She would have told the police William did not wake up and have a silver service breakfast with me.

 

[Wallace52]

TCP we all have our ideas about what happened. The clever person cops the posts on the chin and look at their value.
Fact we know William went to Macas. Because of the photo (that has not been manipulated). Because the kid on the counter got paid that night.
What we don’t know is what time they arrived because the FGM did not get paid that night even though she should have been if she knew what was ahead of her.
She did not have her photo taken.
One day you might be able to tell us all you were wrong and I was right.
Are you saying William is some where between Macas and Kendal on the pacific highway?
Are you saying they turned up he was dying or dead?
Are you saying they took him out that night and buried him?
Possible but highly unlikely.
FD would have blabbed to the police little girls love detail they are into detail. She would have told the police William did not wake up and have a silver service breakfast with me.

Did police check William’s pillow for DNA?

Did they check his toothbrush and check it for DNA to confirm it was his?

There are a lot of other ways to confirm William was at the house on that fateful day, apart from those troublesome photographs.

IMO

I believe the little girl, his sister. She was playing with him that morning, like she said.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

This witness did not do them any favours. The problem with this case is there may have been behaviours that were intentionally designed to create red herrings imho. Everything we are aware of on the 12th September, 2014 may be there to send police up a dry gully. The trip down Batar road etc. Looking for shoes on the fire trail etc. The photos, even the original photo released with the black eye. On each occasion the police have taken the bait, as have many members of this forum.

No one appears interested in the trip from McDonalds but that is where my red flags are.

I answered in detail and you failed to respond to answer ANY questions raised by the suggestion....it's effect on next day. People read comments and when you choose not to answer mine or others but trot out same theory again why should you expect interest? ......you're not prepared to provide evidence or address weaknesses in the argument

Some even challenged that there was 'missing tine' ...unanswered.

 

[LRitz]

I have looked at the eyes carefully. What you describe and I observe is pupillary accommodation. This occurs when your eyes focus on an object or person. He is looking at someone imho. If you look carefully at his eyes you will see the reflection of white sheets on the line.

Eyes converge i.e turn in towards each other. Pupils constrict. This happens as an automatic process. He looks like he is focusing on something close to hime. You can't voluntarily focus on something that is not there.

Not so sure about reflection. Mu guess IMO is that the triangle / chevron shape of light is from the flash of the camera. But I'm not a professional photographer. Look up "catch light" for examples in photography.

 

[LRitz]

Oh well, we've all visited this before. Someone else on here could see a figure in the reflection of his eyes.

But what do you think he is looking at.
He is not looking at the camera.
IMO he is not smiling.

I'm not at all suggesting there is a reflection in his eyes other than a light source.

 

[LRitz]

No one appears interested in the trip from McDonalds but that is where my red flags are.

TCP, you need to come up to speed. What bout the McDonalds CCTV. Why do you think William was on FF's shoulders? Just a coincidence.

 

[Awakening]

Some good posts there. There was one in particular that I would agree with in terms of the way Ron Chapman might have gone about things. I'm not sure what the policy is on quoting others from previous threads, but it was post #7179 from 31550.

If he/she objects, then just remove it.


Perhaps look at the situation from Chapman's point of view:

1. He doesn't immediately connect the sighting with William's disappearance, as it is only later that William was reported wearing the Spiderman suit.
2. He then (later that day?) hears about William's disappearance. It's a 'little boy lost, wandered into bush' scenario - hundreds of people are looking for him. He'd expect (like most of us) that William is found within a few hours. So again, his sighting of a kid in a Spiderman suit is probably not relevant. Police and searchers are busy. They'll find him.
3. William isn't found that day, but then there is media coverage where we don't see the boy's parents, but instead a "family spokesperson", and we are told "William comes from a complicated family background". So, Chapman thinks (like many of us at the time) - oh it's a custody battle - cops will find him with a family member soon enough. Again, the sighting in the car is not particularly relevant - after all, the cops would know whose doors to knock on, right? "It's a complicated family thing - OK they don't want an old man sticking his nose into it!".
4. William isn't found for a couple of days, so now the 'abduction by stranger' theory is in play and the Chapman sighting is again relevant, but by this stage, Chapman's recollection may not be as clear. He thinks about reporting it, but he hears that police are door-knocking the entire area, so he waits for the cops to knock on his door. "They must know what they are doing."
5. More days pass and nobody knocks on Chapmans door. So he tries to contact Wendy Hudson. Wendy is probably pretty busy, so he leaves a message with Kennedy. He assumes Wendy will get the message. "Why didn't they knock on my door? Maybe they know who's got him and they don't need public information any more?"
6. More time passes and Wendy either never gets the message or never follows up. By this time the cops have a suspect - Bill Spedding. Chapman assumes, "They don't need to talk to me because they've got their man - Spedding". Chapman's sighting is not so relevant.
7. More time (lots of time) passes and Spedding is cleared. But William is still not found, so the 'abduction by unknown paedophile' theory is in play. Chapman now realises his sighting could be very relevant. But by this time, his memory could be even more degraded / corrupted by media reports.
8. Eventually Ron Chapman's sighting is brought to police and public attention, but he's disregarded - "He's Old!" - "Why didn't he come forward earlier?" ...
9. Chapman starts to question himself. "Maybe I dreamed it? - why don't my family remember me talking about it?"

Good points!

 

[shorsky]

FGM instead of a diary what about part of her will? I think FGM was very aware or her public image. Immaculately dressed hair immaculate upset beds were not made. Correcting herself.
Just something to think about.

Not sure about in her Will, but she could have had her solicitor visit her to witness her signing a Legal Document that was s
Sealed, with instructions it be given to police at time of her death.

However, my gut doesn’t tell me that she’s the mystery witness. And I don’t think she was aware of any of the goings on.

She was shipped off, out of her home and away from any discussions, almost immediately. Quite inconsiderate on a number of levels imo - here’s an elderly lady left to sleep in a strange bed in a motel room, wondering what has happened to her very young (foster) grandson.

Then she gets back home to a mess, and has to face an offical police walk-through. Maybe she was told ‘tell us as much detail as you remember’, hence talking about what they ate for breakfast.
She heard noise in kitchen before she got up, which she presumed was FF getting his morning coffee.
She says he was gone by 8 am - her marker for that I suggest is that she felt she came out of her room by 8am.
She said the children had breakfast with her
FM cooking I’m thinking, was she cooking prior to FGM coming out of her room …
How long to prepare that breakfast

How long for the children to eat it
FGM washed up then joined them on the patio, where they spent an hour or so. … Must have been on patio by 8.30 am
I wonder did FGM think FF left earlier, but in fact he hadn’t left.

Did William spy ‘Daddy’ playing hidey / Daddy Tiger and raced off the patio to play with him.

Far fetched I guess, but seems everything else is too.

 

[shorsky]

I've never been to Kendall and don't know whether this is accurate:

- Google says the drive would take two minutes:

View attachment 2155118

- of the four CCTV cameras in Kendall that we've been told about, none were between FGM's and Ron's

- the link to the traffic study includes information further up in the PDF (coloured boxes in the section "Infrastructure with DA 2006/57") estimating that of the vehicles using Batar Creek Road, 70% went via Laurel St (where Ron lived) and only 30% went via Albert St (which joins Comboyne St, where the shops are)

Thank you Stormbird, that’s interesting.

Is it possible there was a ‘drop-off ‘ & then a ‘pick-up’ by whoever Mr Chapman saw flying past his place ?

 

[shorsky]

I have looked at the eyes carefully. What you describe and I observe is pupillary accommodation. This occurs when your eyes focus on an object or person. He is looking at someone imho. If you look carefully at his eyes you will see the reflection of white sheets on the line. So much for the washing machine being in pieces.

Have a look again. Very interesting.
View attachment 2155207

As was proven previously when someone suggested I go to Specsavers over the ‘flowers’, I don’t stake my eyesight on anything so not about to analyse reflections. I will say though it’s possible to wash things without a washing machine.

I suggested earlier that William doesn’t appear to me to have a ‘fierce’ enough look to be roaring like a tiger. … but hey, what would I know.

 

[shorsky]

I just wanted to ask, does the sister have foils in her hair?

I think this has been wondered about previously. .. my initial response ‘surely not at that age ‘ … .. followed by ‘but it does look like she may have ‘

 

[Wallace52]

I think this has been wondered about previously. .. my initial response ‘surely not at that age ‘ … .. followed by ‘but it does look like she may have ‘

It really looks like the 4 year old girl has foils. I wonder why? That is a bit young, isn’t it?

 

[truecrimepath]

TCP, you need to come up to speed. What bout the McDonalds CCTV. Why do you think William was on FF's shoulders? Just a coincidence.

I don't see any relevance of him being on his shoulders at all. Are you implying it was pre-meditated.

 

[truecrimepath]

Eyes converge i.e turn in towards each other. Pupils constrict. This happens as an automatic process. He looks like he is focusing on something close to hime. You can't voluntarily focus on something that is not there.

Not so sure about reflection. Mu guess IMO is that the triangle / chevron shape of light is from the flash of the camera. But I'm not a professional photographer. Look up "catch light" for examples in photography.

It is not a flash otherwise the clothing (FGM) and Williams face would not be in shadow. It is a bright light source. I am thinking sheets in full sunlight on that clothesline as there is no bright light source behind except possibly the clothes line. I will post this photo again.

 

[truecrimepath]

TCP we all have our ideas about what happened. The clever person cops the posts on the chin and look at their value.
Fact we know William went to Macas. Because of the photo (that has not been manipulated). Because the kid on the counter got paid that night.
What we don’t know is what time they arrived because the FGM did not get paid that night even though she should have been if she knew what was ahead of her.
She did not have her photo taken.
One day you might be able to tell us all you were wrong and I was right.
Are you saying William is some where between Macas and Kendal on the pacific highway?
Are you saying they turned up he was dying or dead?
Are you saying they took him out that night and buried him?
Possible but highly unlikely.
FD would have blabbed to the police little girls love detail they are into detail. She would have told the police William did not wake up and have a silver service breakfast with me.

It all hinges on what the FD actually said to the police officer. Was she coached in what to say as a four year old? What was the question asked of her and was it asked in an open manner? I am not sure like others that this can be relied on. This is a child that was almost certainly abused and threatened.

I find the discrepancy between arriving at 9pm and 9.30pm very important. The fact that she told the story that she got to Maccas at 6.50 pm when we know she left at 6.40pm is potentially revealing. Why the deception the night before? Was she intentionally misleading or was it an honest mistake? No reason to deceive unless something happened on that trip.

 

[truecrimepath]

Agree. But wasn't there some confusion at the coroners court?

From Overington's book - ..."counsel assisting the Coroner made his position clear - questioning the FM and FGM's time line as sketched out for detectives , was off-limits. Critics slammed Mr Craddock for refusing to question the veracity of the timeline..."
It then goes on to mention the "pure chance" photo of the Sunrise TV show taken 11 days before that shows the camera was on the same approximate Bali time. Gee that was lucky for them. What a coincidence.. It also says FM did not set the camera time. But we have no proof of who set the time. IMO both the FF and FM would know how to set the time on a camera.

Maybe police initially did the IT to check what time was on the camera. At this stage the FPs not major suspects. You would hope all those other details were examined. But with the discontinuity in the police investigation, could it be possible no one ever went back to check. New team comes in and has huge amount of evidence. Sees that the photo time has been looked at, and signed off by previously at the coroners court and accepts this.

In which case are you suggesting it is pre-meditated again. I wonder why Craddock would treat them with kid gloves. I wonder what he is thinking now.

 

[truecrimepath]

It would be good to know the source for the warm bonnet. I did two consecutive 5 minute drives yesterday and the bonnet was barely warm.

If it was a trip it was much further than just down the road.

We know no one saw William physically that day. Did anyone actually see the FM either in Benaroon drive before the disappearance?

 

[LRitz]

Not sure about in her Will, but she could have had her solicitor visit her to witness her signing a Legal Document that was s
Sealed, with instructions it be given to police at time of her death.

However, my gut doesn’t tell me that she’s the mystery witness. And I don’t think she was aware of any of the goings on.

She was shipped off, out of her home and away from any discussions, almost immediately. Quite inconsiderate on a number of levels imo - here’s an elderly lady left to sleep in a strange bed in a motel room, wondering what has happened to her very young (foster) grandson.

Then she gets back home to a mess, and has to face an offical police walk-through. Maybe she was told ‘tell us as much detail as you remember’, hence talking about what they ate for breakfast.
She heard noise in kitchen before she got up, which she presumed was FF getting his morning coffee.
She says he was gone by 8 am - her marker for that I suggest is that she felt she came out of her room by 8am.
She said the children had breakfast with her
FM cooking I’m thinking, was she cooking prior to FGM coming out of her room …
How long to prepare that breakfast

How long for the children to eat it
FGM washed up then joined them on the patio, where they spent an hour or so. … Must have been on patio by 8.30 am
I wonder did FGM think FF left earlier, but in fact he hadn’t left.

Did William spy ‘Daddy’ playing hidey / Daddy Tiger and raced off the patio to play with him.

Far fetched I guess, but seems everything else is too.

Shorsky, (And I don’t think she was aware of any of the goings on) are we talking about the same person?

FGM looked pretty spritely and dare I say at times cheerful in her walk through.
She said she had been out the day before and I presume had driven herself.
She is downsizing her house but there was no mention of dementia, living independently and still driving.
She must have had done some preparation for breakfast for all the eggs and orange juice. She said she went to Lauriton on Thursday 12 kms away for shopping. (unless Fps had brought groceries but this has not been mentioned as far as i know).
She must have known when the FF left IMO. It is not a big house.
She alleges they, herself and the 2 children, had breakfast for an hour. From ~8 to 9, as i recall. Small kids sitting having breakfast for one hour, unbelievable IMO.
She alleges there were no phone calls. And then repeats the denial a couple of times. Yet we know there was a phone call out by the FM and another missed call in.
In her walkthrough she alleges that she walked to the front of the house following FM, and saw and talked to neighbour AM. But IMO this does not fit in with either FM narrative or AM's evidence.

So her evidence has inconsistencies, does no fit with FM and FF narratives, confusion and possible lies.
IMO she was "shipped" off to keep her away from telling to much information. Keep her away from police or even reporters.
Look at SB's post 7304 page 293 on previous thread, and then see what you think.

 

[js47]

I thought it was strange William on the shoulder but! Don’t forget there are playgrounds which he would have made a dash for.
And why did they have that big bag? Pjs then why did she forget to dress them there?

 

[LRitz]

I don't see any relevance of him being on his shoulders at all. Are you implying it was pre-meditated.

Sorry to go over old ground. (Yes 31550 I can hear your groans, so such skip over this ).

Short Summary. There was previous discussion that the the McDonalds photo was POL and undisputed. I wondered why he was on FF's shoulders. Looks odd inside in a small area and not a big distance to walk. What it does do is make it easy to see William on the CCTV and he must be reasonably well to be balancing high on FF's shoulders . Most people would know that a CCTV would be somewhere in this store. The sister being short is partially hidden from the camera. Also it helps lock in the arrival time at Kendall to after dark. So the roar photo could not have been taken on the Thursday between leaving the preschool and arriving at FGM's. The majority opinion was it was just a coincidence - maybe this is a thing the FF does, or it was to stop William running away, or running around in the store etc.
I am sticking to my opinion that it looks odd. I don't like coincidences (and there are a number of these surrounding William). Pre-mediated? I think it leaves that as a possibility, IMO.

 

[LRitz]

It is not a flash otherwise the clothing (FGM) and Williams face would not be in shadow. It is a bright light source. I am thinking sheets in full sunlight on that clothesline as there is no bright light source behind except possibly the clothes line. I will post this photo again.

Im not a photographer but I think sheets could not give such a sharp line. Maybe reflect diffused light. So you are thinking there could be another bright light source? His left side of face is brighter than his right. There is even a small catch of light on his tongue left side.. I think the legs of the table with plant in pink pot are casting a reflection of light toward the camera, not a shadow. The wooden deck that has shiny finish (like a reflection in a lake) and this reflection is perceived by the viewer , in this case the camera.
Look up "catch light" and you will see how photographers use, or avoid, this.

Edit: or what about a small flash on a $200 camera. Maybe not enough light to influence the shadows from the natural light.

 

[LRitz]

It would be good to know the source for the warm bonnet. I did two consecutive 5 minute drives yesterday and the bonnet was barely warm.

If it was a trip it was much further than just down the road.

We know no one saw William physically that day. Did anyone actually see the FM either in Benaroon drive before the disappearance?

The evidence or witness of FM's drive is not clear. There was a recent question of the whole warm bonnet theory. I don't think the original source was identified. The FM in the short part of her walkthrough that was released ALLEGES she drove and saw a truck. it would be a mystery why she would claim this if she had not driven. Especially early, when we think she was not a major suspect. As for seeing anyone? First sighting is FF's car, and we assume that they could see it was him driving, at ~ 8:50 passing the Kendall tennis club on CCTV. Even though the FM said he was running late and left around 9:00. No one saw FM, FGM, William or sister until around 10:30, about the time the FF returned.