Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Poppy Penny]

The more I read and hear about him, I think Gary Jubelin should change his surname to Justify. It’s always everyone’s else’s fault, or they are lying but basically he’s a bully who likes his own way. His ego seems massive. I think he really needs help to heal and to deal with his ‘father’ issues. IMO

 

[js47]

You could ask the same question of everyone who posts here.

Like all cases of missing persons, we want to see them solved.

Everyone agreeing with the same theory on the internet doesn't solve a case. I happen to think the police are barking up the wrong tree, so I give my opinion.

I also pay taxes and don't want to see them wasting their time.

Then let’s not waste time on each other and use up space.

 

[shorsky]

After William went missing I think it was taken by some one from the young hope agency. I won’t be offended if I am wrong.
The car beside FGMs was a Land Rover Discovery I had the same model so I recognise its shape.
Also the red car is on the street so if any one drove up and turned around you would probably see it.

Cheers.

So who had the Land Rover Discovery I wonder… . Is that what Ms White from Young Hope drove ?

Was it a Land Rover or a Land Cruiser that Mr Chapman mentioned seeing with child Spider-Man in rear seat ?

 

[js47]

Big deal. The Witness podcast is: Look here, look there, it’s a paedophile, it’s a neighbour, blah blah blah - reasonable doubt.

So boring.

Not only boring! If someone had taken Will he would know the suit would not be there? So what is the point?

 

[Lady O]

Why assume an accident?
It's tunnel vision to see the balcony and assume a balcony fall.
Just like seeing a number of pedos and assuming an abduction.
Once you rule out getting lost (which now seems a reasonable thing to do), you have to look at the evidence and make sense of it.
There is very little evidence but we do know about the drive. The drive does not fit with an accident. The drive does fit with something more sinister happening to William and his body needing to be disposed of to cover it up. But for some reason, nobody wants to go there.

I guess it's because none of us want to blame a carer for a murder. There isn't really anything to point towards a deliberate act. Despite WT being a difficult child, they seemed to be fond of him. However, what we can see at FGM 's is multiple dangers for small children in and around that house that the carers seem to have been oblivious to. This for me is hard to reconcile. A high verandah, a high lower driveway, large rocks beneath both, even the gardening tools hanging on the wall is a worry. A parent, who doesn't set boundaries or at least doesn't monitor the child/ren sufficiently, but seems to rely on their perceived innate avoidance of danger to keep them safe. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[js47]

Yes she actually said that. So weird, right?

I wonder if she was building up character references how did we find this out? It should be something between friends not for public knowledge. She is her own worse enemy.

 

[js47]

Cheers.

So who had the Land Rover Discovery I wonder… . Is that what Ms White from Young Hope drove ?

Was it a Land Rover or a Land Cruiser that Mr Chapman mentioned seeing with child Spider-Man in rear seat ?

The FF had a new Land Rover.

 

[31550]

I guess it's because none of us want to blame a carer for a murder. There isn't really anything to point towards a deliberate act. Despite WT being a difficult child, they seemed to be fond of him. However, what we can see at FGM 's is multiple dangers for small children in and around that house that the carers seem to have been oblivious to. This for me is hard to reconcile. A high verandah, a high lower driveway, large rocks beneath both, even the gardening tools hanging on the wall is a worry. A parent, who doesn't set boundaries or at least doesn't monitor the child/ren sufficiently, but seems to rely on their perceived innate avoidance of danger to keep them safe. It's a recipe for disaster.

There is no evidence of fondness from the FM towards William. The dangerous house and the carers obliviousness are evidence to the contrary. Then there is the assault and intimidation of his sister. Bruises. Concern from his biological mother about his health. So called 'difficult behaviour' is often an indication of unhappiness or mistreatment. We can see a 'carer' who sees this whole situation in terms of how it affects HER, not William or his sister. I think there is plenty of evidence which suggests something more sinister than an accident. Not necessarily a cold blooded murder, but possibly an angry outburst or reaction, or a punishment gone too far, an inappropriate activity attempted, a stupid game, or just gross neglect like leaving him with a dangerous object or material.

 

[js47]

Cheers.

So who had the Land Rover Discovery I wonder… . Is that what Ms White from Young Hope drove ?

Was it a Land Rover or a Land Cruiser that Mr Chapman mentioned seeing with child Spider-Man in rear seat ?

Land cruiser

 

[js47]

I am interested in how people would react if a child bit you and would not let go what would you do?

 

[Kurve]

The more I read and hear about him, I think Gary Jubelin should change his surname to Justify. It’s always everyone’s else’s fault, or they are lying but basically he’s a bully who likes his own way. His ego seems massive. I think he really needs help to heal and to deal with his ‘father’ issues. IMO

Yeh I noticed on the podcast, there was zero regret for destroying Bill Spedding's life and trying to totally befuddle an elderly Paul Savage.

A 3yo boy is missing but that doesn't entitle anybody in the pursuit of an arrest, to destroy the lives of the innocent. Bill Spedding and his wife had grandchildren too who relied on them.

 

[Wallace52]

Yeh I noticed on the podcast, there was zero regret for destroying Bill Spedding's life and trying to totally befuddle an elderly Paul Savage.

A 3yo boy is missing but that doesn't entitle anybody in the pursuit of an arrest, to destroy the lives of the innocent. Bill Spedding and his wife had grandchildren too who relied on them.

I agree. But do you know who ultimately has destroyed all of these lives?

The number one person is the person who has disappeared William. That’s the person who started this and all of the damage starts with them.

Also Gary, though. IMO

And let’s not forget the foster mother mentioned Savage in her 2016 interview with Jubelin and Lou Curry….. and then Jubelin goes after Savage hammer and tongs…^^^


^^^If you say that someone was going at something hammer and tongs, you mean that they were doing it with great energy.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Why assume an accident?
It's tunnel vision to see the balcony and assume a balcony fall.
Just like seeing a number of pedos and assuming an abduction.
Once you rule out getting lost (which now seems a reasonable thing to do), you have to look at the evidence and make sense of it.
There is very little evidence but we do know about the drive. The drive does not fit with an accident. The drive does fit with something more sinister happening to William and his body needing to be disposed of to cover it up. But for some reason, nobody wants to go there.

Yes. No one does want to go there. A combination of things I guess.

What I know from personal experience is that a dysfunctional parent prone to inappropriate discipline (abuse), the circumstances can escalate beyond control quickly..Throw in care of a child from DV environment and it becomes the EXACT set of circumstances that results in cinderella effect deaths. If there was a death other than accident you must assume FGM at least knew/saw. The prophetic words......"this is where it all happened" I think IS leakage.

 

[Wallace52]

So not capable of hiding William?

Not capable of chucking a 14ish kg 3 year old boy into the bushes? In those patterned leggings she’s capable of many-a-feat.

I would guess when someone pokes the bear, the bear evolves into a woman with super-human strength.

She probably could have gotten rid of 3 William’s and been quite capable of that.

At that point she was 49, she looked reasonably fit, was not overweight, tall, strong looking and didn’t smoke. No health issues. Yeah, she could have done it.

 

[Wallace52]

I think he really needs help to heal and to deal with his ‘father’ issues.

I agree, and he shouldn’t be dragging his ass through this sad podcast, you can hear the pain in his voice.

Why drag up the past when it’s the case that ruined his life? Just leave it alone, Jubes. It’s a poisoned chalice. <That quote is from Spedding, but it’s really true>
MOO

 

[js47]

Great questions.
In his interview on Sunday the 14th they went over this twice. At this stage I don't think they had even got the tennis club CCTV.
This is what he says:

I know I needed actually
be somewhere in positioned in a, in a good location settled, set up my
computer get all my services ready to do my presentation at 9.30.
Um, so I did that I set it up in the car park I think it's, is it Lake Cathie
on the way out to Laurieton? ...
There's the, a Woolworths there on the left with the, I don't what it's or
how you pronounce it Khodary Pharmacist's
Ah, so I could see O.K. Khodary ah, I'd have to go there so, I sat
there and I was looking at the, at the Woolworths Shopping Centre.
And .1 was online um, and I've got phone numbers wherever I've now
put my phone, it's here. Um, I called, I had a, an online meeting with
ah, someone urn, in Queensland.
and then urn, I made a
phone call to a prospect on the way back. And that was at about
10.15. Ah, and then when I got here at 10.30 I drove up the driveway,
oh, I did oh, sorry I did stop off at the corner store for [FGM] to get
two papers.

Then later in the interview they go over it again:

Urn, now sorry can you just take me through you, you left about just
before 9.00?
Yeah.
And you went to Lakewood?
Yeah.
And you went to a chemist?
Yeah.
And - - -
Went to the chemist after my meeting.
Sorry and you O.K. So can you, you, did you drive to the shopping
centre - --
Yeah.
- - - or anywhere else?
No, just straight to the shopping centre.
Yeah.
Um, picked a position to sit in.
Yeah.
A And I don't want to sit like, in a concrete wall, um, you know. I sat
looking out. I could see where the chemist was so, where I needed to
go afterwards. Um, I kind of knew this was going to be a relatively
boring meeting because - - -
Q219 Ah hmm.
A - - - urn, I'd tried to set it up or I'd had, I'd had to reschedule this
meeting three times for someone in Queensland.
Q220 [23.45] Yeah.
A Urn, ah, I called them set up the meeting um, you know, the online
demonstration took a little bit of time to set up actually - - -
Q221 Yeah.
A - - - because urn, the initial one that we were, I was using it can't, a
product called WebEx didn't work.
Q222 Yeah.
A She couldn't get it to work so, I used another product we call you
know, call urn, ah, Go to My PC.
Q223 Yeah, and it's - - -
A Yeah.
Q224 Can you just tell me who that, who that online demonstration or, or
meeting was with again sorry I - - -
A Yeah, yeah. No, I can - - -
Q225 You did tell me.
A - - - I'll bring it up for you here it urn, urn no, hang on a second there
we go ah, the company was Friday morning. It's called Brody
Corporation.
Q226 Yeah.
A Ah, the lady's name is Joy Chesterfield.
Q227 O,K. And what time did that start and end?
A The meeting, the meeting started at 9.30 - - -
Q228 Yeah.
A - - - I always call early.
Q229 Yeah
Because IT or related issues in regards to sometimes, because
sometimes people use Mac's or PC's and sometimes I have to use
different types of products in order to set up the meeting.
Q230 [24.23] Yeah.
A Ah, and then we go through what they wanted to cover.
Q231 O.K.
A I, I always allow my diaries when I'm doing meetings with, with these
types of people though I always allow up to an hour.
Q232 Yeah.
A Ah, but in this instance, I knew it wouldn't go that long.
Q233 O.K.
A Urn, it went for and I think it for about, actually it's on my phone.
What's the number I called 7-2-9-0 7-2-9-0. Friday, thirty nine
minutes.
Q234 Thirty nine minutes?
A From 9.17.
Q235 And do you mind reading that number out for me?
A
Q236 Thanks a lot.
A So, then after that.
Q237 Yeah.
A I finished my meeting.
Q238 Yeah.
A I had also received a phone call as I went into sorry, I'm pretty. pretty
precise.
Q239 No, that's fine that's great.
A Mmm, um ---
Q240 [25.36} That's excellent.
A - - - I received a phone call - - -
Q241 Yeah.
A _- - -Ifrom I think this one here. And this number here think her name is Belinda Rankin, she is a recruiter.
Oh, no that's one I missed, maybe it's here, I can get her details, I
can't remember where it is, anyway it, so, it's one of the recruiters
rang - - -
Yeah.
- - - oh, and I rang back that's right I got her voice mail and straight,
and rang her straight back - - -
Yeah.
- - - left a message. So, I then rang her and spoke to her.
And just that number again . - --
Looks like it's _
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that right?
Yeah, that's right because she rang me on Thursday and left a
message as I was coming up here and I didn't want, I didn't know who
it was, I didn't recognise the number - - -
[26.25] Yeah.
- - - because you can see it's there on the Thursday. See on the way
up here?
Yeah.
5.29 I didn't want to answer any calls.
Sure.
Because I was driving as well as I had everyone in the car, I don't
want them to listen to that.
Ah hmm.
And so, that's when I rang back. Um, and then urn, so to the recruiter
while I was actually filling my script.
Yeah.
Filled the script
So, what time do you think that would have been, looking at that, that,
that call?
A Um - --
0256 That you would have had with the recruiter, 9.45am it's a missed call
is that right?
A Yeah, but then I would have called back - - -
0257 And then you rang back.
A - - - I would have rung, oh, that's the missed call.
0258 Yeah.
A But it doesn't show when you call your voice mail.
0259 O.K.
A So, I've rung my voicemail.
0260 [27.03] O.K.
A I've listened to her message.
0261 Yeah.
A And then I've gone 2-2. You know when, Telstra, you just put it 2-2 --
0262 O.K.
A - - - and it brings back that person.
0263 Sure, yeah. Yeah.
A But it doesn't show on here - -
0264 O.K.
A - - - it only shows the missed call coming in - - -
0265 That _ ?
A - - - not going out.
0266 Yeah.
0267 Mmm.
A Yeah, O.K. Then after that phone call and I was actually trying to get
her off the phone because I was in the chemist and I said, look I'm in
a chemist. I'm trying to fill a script, I've got to get home - - -
0268 Yeah.
A - - - I bet she's trying to sell me roles et cetera.
0269 Yeah.
A Um, and then I rang, this is an outbound calli, I had to make.
0270 [27.31] Yeah.
A This is a prospect of mine, it's called •••••••
0271 Yeah.
A In Breakfast Point.
0272 Yeah.
A In Sydney metro, her name is Corinne Paterson.
0273 Corinne Paterson.
A Paterson.
0274 Yeah.
A Her numbers.
Q275 Yeah.
...
A And I rang her to clarify her moving forward with the sale.
Q280 [28.021 O.K.
A And she said, it's all green lights.
0281 And what time was that [FF]
A Um,10.23.
Q282 10.23. Yeah. O.K. And then what happened after that?
A Well that was, I rang her on the way back from Lake is it Lakewood?
0283 Lakewood.
A All right. After I'd left the, ah, urn, there. I was making that on the
way back
A I was then stopped in traffic because of the roadwork's that they're
dOing on that, on the road back and into, towards Lake ah, Lakewood
and Laurieton - - -
Q285 Yeah.
A - - - it was a forty kilometre zone.
0286 O.K. Yeah.
A So, I stopped there ah, and that's then it I remembered that I had to
stop on the way back um, to get the papers for [FGM]
0287 Yeah.
A So I stopped in there and I, the lady knows me, I mean, you know not
that well but well enough. She recognised me and I said oh, have you
got the paper there for [FGM] oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0288 And where was that [FF]
Just the, the local urn, I even call it, I actually call it the General Store
in, in, urn, in Kendall as you come up the hill.
0289 Yeah.
A You know they've got feed for cattle and - - -
Q290 [29.05] Yeah.
A - - - and all that sorts of stuff as well as you know chocolate Mars
Bars, eggs and milk and all sorts of, they've got, they've got
everything.
0291 Yeah.
A Um, so I picked up those papers.
Q292 Yeah.
A Ah, it was at that point I'm pretty sure I sent [FM] a text saying um,
I'm on my way - - -
0293 Yeah.
A - - - I'll, I'll be, be there in five minutes.
Q294 Yeah.
A Urn, here we go.
Q295 And what time was that?
A 10.30am exactly.


So FF provided police with a pretty detailed alibi, including names and phone numbers of people to verify.
However, you are correct, there is nothing to confirm his actions between 8:50am (when he passed the tennis club) and 9:17am (when he started the meeting). He says he spent this time setting up the online meeting / demonstration. I guess police could have asked for more detail about this or asked him to show them what he did and why it took so long to set up.

I personally don't think 27 minutes is long enough to get from a fairly busy main road in Kendall, dispose of a body without trace in broad daylight, and return to Lakewood shops and start an online meeting.

You can get to the lake

 

[shorsky]

Must have been her driving the vehicle the Crabbes heard IMO and this might be where the police fit the drive in?

I just don’t know how such a huge difference in Times works. .. unless it was 2 seperate occasions they heard, like one coming in and one going out.

But that’s not how it’s been reported imo.

I can see a bit of ‘pause’ as you reverse out of a driveway, change gears, perhaps put on seatbelt, possibly reposition something ( my handbag has a habit of falling off the seat on to the floor ), and then continue on.

But I can’t fathom the ‘stop’ if on the return trip..

 

[shorsky]

I’m not sure if a drive’s in question.
FM says she went for a drive.
Police believe FM went for a drive.
What else would police have?
Has there been any more mention about what FM was meant to have been throwing out the window?
If she has thrown something, it must be small IMO.
Or did FM just look like she was throwing something?

That’s interesting that you raise that.

I think it was quite early on in the investigation, that the mention was made of FM possibly throwing something from the car, and there was an assumption by many that it may have been William’s shoes.

To me, that indicates that She Was Seen on that drive . …. . ? by whom

She said the driver of the semi-trailer that passed her thought she was ‘waving’ to him - but she had her head out looking for William ( I think she may have been stopped on side of road as dangerous to drive with head out window!)

I’m thinking we might hear from a different truck driver - and that may be why police want FM back on the stand,

How much was she questioned about this Truck by CC does anyone know ? e.g. what colour was it, did it have any branding, did it have a load on, was it a flat tray or did it have stock crate on, or a shipping container, what direction was it travelling etc.

 

[js47]

I just don’t know how such a huge difference in Times works. .. unless it was 2 seperate occasions they heard, like one coming in and one going out.

But that’s not how it’s been reported imo.

I can see a bit of ‘pause’ as you reverse out of a driveway, change gears, perhaps put on seatbelt, possibly reposition something ( my handbag has a habit of falling off the seat on to the floor ), and then continue on.

But I can’t fathom the ‘stop’ if on the return trip..

To decide….where….you want to park 3 choices.

 

[shorsky]

William Tyrrell inquest: police suspect foster mother buried toddler after accidental death | New South Wales | The Guardian

Wild dogs may have taken any remains of three-year-old if he was buried in nearby bushland, deputy NSW coroner Harriet Grahame hears

amp.theguardian.com

Does the time fit with the Crabbes hearing the car?
Police are alleging FM alerted neighbours first then went for a drive before phoning 000.

Not imo.

I believe the drive was before FF arrived home, and therefore before she alerted neighbours.

Sharpley was still actively engaged / searching with FM when she called 000.

Const Rowley (1st responder) arrived 10 mins later and supposedly searched the house and stayed with FM as the search ramped up.

 

[Wallace52]

the mention was made of FM possibly throwing something from the car, and there was an assumption by many that it may have been William’s shoes.

To me, that indicates that She Was Seen on that drive . …. . ? by whom

She wasn’t seen by anyone that the public is aware of. Maybe that’s a bit of a secret that investigators have kept thus far.

 

[31550]

I just don’t know how such a huge difference in Times works. .. unless it was 2 seperate occasions they heard, like one coming in and one going out.

But that’s not how it’s been reported imo.

I can see a bit of ‘pause’ as you reverse out of a driveway, change gears, perhaps put on seatbelt, possibly reposition something ( my handbag has a habit of falling off the seat on to the floor ), and then continue on.

But I can’t fathom the ‘stop’ if on the return trip..

They weren't watching the clock.
Neither was the FM. All the times are just best guesses.
So maybe they heard her leave and not return.
Or maybe what they thought they heard was slightly different from what actually happened - initially they thought it was the postie, so their memories would be affected by this assumption from then on.
Eyewitness testimony is never totally reliable.
But we don't need to rely totally on the Crabb's times because we have other testimony and evidence.

 

[31550]

You can get to the lake

Yeah Queens Lake which is at Lakewood where he parked.
Not Lake Cathie which is about 20 minutes from Lakewood.

 

[maggiethecat]

I am interested in how people would react if a child bit you and would not let go what would you do?

Well you are only speculating if this was involved but I can tell you that my mother ( I’m adopted so it’s my adopted mother) was bitten by my bestie when she was about 4 and my mother immediately bit her back , Genny went running home but her mother soon came marching up our driveway , demanding to know why my mother bit her child

 

[31550]

Well you are only speculating if this was involved but I can tell you that my mother ( I’m adopted so it’s my adopted mother) was bitten by my bestie when she was about 4 and my mother immediately but her back , Genny went running home but her mother soon came marching up our driveway , demanding to know why my mother bit her child

Right so if he bit her she might have bitten back.
If he kicked her she might have kicked him back.
If he punched her she might have punched him back.
And what might happen to a 3YO boy who was hit or kicked in the head?