Deadmau5

[Schism]

What constitutes 'prog' in electronic music?

 

[omit]

What constitutes 'prog' in electronic music?

and where the hell is smasha to read about this "prog electronica"

 

[.Shotties.]

What constitutes 'prog' in electronic music?

The same as in most other music, I'd say. What do you mean by constitutes? Do you want artist examples or do you mean general features of a prog track?

 

[Saint KFC]

on what? I think you either get electronic music, or you dont.

On the 'oodles of musical talent in electronic music'. I could educate someone on the 'oodles of musical talent' in Metal. I have friends who are into Indie who could educate someone on the 'oodles of musical talent' in Indie.

Can you do the same?

 

[.Shotties.]

Serious question: Do you actually care or are you going to ask and re-clarify questions in a pointed manner in order to confirm the belief you already had?

 

[Macca19]

What constitutes 'prog' in electronic music?

Im not getting involved in that debate

 

[Saint KFC]

Serious question: Do you actually care or are you going to ask and re-clarify questions in a pointed manner in order to confirm the belief you already had?

I'll only ask questions if there are questions that need to be asked. I'm not that stubborn to automatically disregard any point you put forward, if that's what you're implying.

 

[.Shotties.]

I'll only ask questions if there are questions that need to be asked. I'm not that stubborn to automatically disregard any point you put forward, if that's what you're implying.

What exactly do you wish to be educated on in terms of electronica? It's a pretty wide ranging subject. Saying "educate me" is like saying educate me on guitar music.

 

[Saint KFC]

What exactly do you wish to be educated on in terms of electronica? It's a pretty wide ranging subject. Saying "educate me" is like saying educate me on guitar music.

Educate me on the technical aspects of electronica (pertaining to musical theory). In other words, what aspects of musical theory and technicality are present.

In laymans terms, the musical talent that is required.

 

[.Shotties.]

I couldn't give you an answer on that, primarily because my knowledge is extremely basic and again, because electronica covers a range of music from gabber to deep house.

Though if I could ask you something, you said you couldn't respect EDM producers. What do you think of the Presets in terms of musical ability?

 

[Schism]

Serious question: Do you actually care or are you going to ask and re-clarify questions in a pointed manner in order to confirm the belief you already had?

Granted i don't listen to as much electronica as i used to (unless one counts ambient/dark ambient as electronica),but i have been listening to it since Astral Projection in the 90's.I know the genre and sub-genre's reasonably well,but i rate deadmau5 as absolute shit,the same category as chemical bros,most drum n bass,happy hard,and 'techno'.What i do like is hard nrg trance,ambient/psychedelic trance,goa trance.

 

[Macca19]

On the 'oodles of musical talent in electronic music'. I could educate someone on the 'oodles of musical talent' in Metal. I have friends who are into Indie who could educate someone on the 'oodles of musical talent' in Indie.

Can you do the same?

Me? Probably not as im not that fantastic at explaining things like this.

as Shots says, its hard to say 'educate me on electronic music' as theres so many different genres.

I love Metal and other genres of music, but in terms of electronic music, amongst others, Prog House and Liquid Drum n Bass are my two favourite sub genres.

What do I look for? Something thats fresh. A deep complexity involving different layers of sound and instruments. A good bass line, interesting drum or percussion sounds, not neccesarily a catchy melody, but it needs to flow, it needs to have groove and it needs to connect. Electronic music to me is about being taken on a journey.

In terms of the actual production values of making electronic music. Programming keyboards, synths, drum machines, possible use of live samples...I dont see why it should be degraded and not considered as worthy as other genres of music. You still have to have the ability to to put your ideas into practice and prove your creativity and ideas to create something that will be catchy and that DJs will want to play and people will want to dance to.

I know thats a bit all over the place, but its a start.

 

[.Shotties.]

Granted i don't listen to as much electronica as i used to (unless one counts ambient/dark ambient as electronica),but i have been listening to it since Astral Projection in the 90's.I know the genre and sub-genre's reasonably well,but i rate deadmau5 as absolute shit,the same category as chemical bros,most drum n bass,happy hard,and 'techno'.What i do like is hard nrg trance,ambient/psychedelic trance,goa trance.

You don't like the Mau5 but you rate hard NRG? Different strokes I guess.

I take it you're an avid collector of Skitz Mix?

 

[Schism]

You don't like the Mau5 but you rate hard NRG? Different strokes I guess.

I take it you're an avid collector of Skitz Mix?

I don't think you know hard nrg very well.skitz eats poo,i wouldn't even download let alone pay for one.I do however have every volume of MoS HARD NRG,and the anthems.

Anyway i'm a vocal trance head from way back

[YOUTUBE]uiAOlMeVNLw[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]V546Wd6v8_U[/YOUTUBE]

Music like that over deadmau5 any day

 

[Crows4Flag]

To be honest i find a "metal" musician to have more talent in their pinky than a techno so called musician and i really really hate metal

 

[Macca19]

I don't think you know hard nrg very well.skitz eats poo,i wouldn't even download let alone pay for one.I do however have every volume of MoS HARD NRG,and the anthems.

Music like that over deadmau5 any day

I dont mind a bit of vocal trance, but it is nowhere near NRG. What NRG djs/artists do you like?

Personally id say that what MoS's idea of what NRG is, isnt actually NRG.

 

[Schism]

I dont mind a bit of vocal trance, but it is nowhere near NRG. What NRG djs/artists do you like?

Personally id say that what MoS's idea of what NRG is, isnt actually NRG.

Not all of it.volume 4 and 8 i would say have more hard nrg.5,6,7 are trancey.1-3 are a bit meh.Alphazone is a favourite

 

[.Shotties.]

Not all of it.volume 4 and 8 i would say have more hard nrg.5,6,7 are trancey.1-3 are a bit meh.Alphazone is a favourite

Alphazone are quite good beans.

 

[gPhonque]

Educate me on the technical aspects of electronica (pertaining to musical theory). In other words, what aspects of musical theory and technicality are present.

In laymans terms, the musical talent that is required.

Ok, I'll bite.

Electronic/dance music is not so much about "traditional" musical theory as it is about sound design and production. It's about tweaking every detail of every sound. It's about creating layers of grooves that work together, are EQ'd and filtered to work together, are compressed to work together.....it's about abusing tools and breaking rules....pushing things to new limits..... it's even about psychology to a point..... and yes, all in a musical way of course, however, what you might call "traditional music theory" is NOT always where the weight of importance lies. It's a completely different kind of music to Bach, or Mozart. Therefore, it requires a different approach, and a different skill-set.

In my opinion, there is so much more talent and knowledge required to create GOOD electronic music than there is in playing a guitar in a rock band. I know because I've done both for years. This whole "electronic music requires no talent" rubbish is the biggest ignorant myth in music today. (funnily enough always pushed by people who have no idea about electronic music, and who generally don't like electronic music. Hmmm, let me see.... I think I see a connection there...? )

That said, yes it's possible to throw some shit together from loop packs and sample packs and create a "tune".... and yes, unfortunately, there are people out there who do this, but they are generally seen through for what they are - lame and boring, which is (in my opinion) exactly what 95% of electronic music is.

Yes - there's no denying that there's a crapload of terrible dance/electronic music. But how is that any different to ANY other genre/style of music?

However, there's also some absolutely amazing electronic music being made, across ALL genres. I challenge anybody to listen to some Shpongle and tell me it's not some of the most beautiful music ever created.

The only way I could truly "educate" you is if you came over to my studio and watched me create a dance/electronic tune. I could show you first-hand the many skills involved in it. From EQ'ing each hit, to adjusting the envelopes of each hit, to sidechain compressing bass lines and percussion lines to beats and then tweaking the ratio, threshold, attack and release times of the compressor to make it slam and pump as much as it musically can, to automating LFO's synced to filter cutoffs to get twisty warping basslines, to layering more twisty LFO'd basslines to get even more morphy basslines, to digging through crates of record to find weird samples to chop up and mangle....

....all the way through to me playing synths, pianos, playing and recording live instruments, micing up my guitar amp to record some guitars.... hell, even micing up a drumkit and multitrack recording drum parts to use as well. (which in itself requires about 5 different skills that need to be learned and practised over years... drumming, engineering know-how, recording know-how, mixing know-how..... are you getting the idea yet?)

As for psychology, creating dance music in particular is about getting inside the head of the listeners/clubbers. It's about controlling their minds, bodies, and even emotions when they're dancing/listening. It's about creating and controlling every detail of that big build-up.... the anticipation before the tune drops and everybody goes nuts. It's generally (not always of course) about keeping the momentum and keeping the vibe flowing and building etc etc etc. In fact, controlling and creating emotions is certainly not just exclusive to dance music, but all kinds of music. It is perhaps more physical though in dance music.

If all the things I've mentioned above are less "musical" than playing a few power chords on a guitar and singing some shit lyrics over the top, then I guess I've been fooling everybody for the past 14 years that I've been paid good money to create all kinds of music (including electronic/dance and often a fusion of many different styles) for videogames, tv shows, movies.... etc etc...

(not just electronic either, but everything from full orchestral arrangements, to metal, to jazz, to latin, to everything in-between.)

In fact, at the moment, I'm spending my days composing and arranging orchestral music for a big-budget videogame. That involves writing/playing every cello part, violin, viola, bass, trumpets, flutes, percussion, oboes, bassoons, etc etc etc. Every single part. It requires musical skill (playing the piano and various other instruments), knowledge of how each of those instruments is generally used in an orchestral arrangement, arrangement knowledge, production/engineering/mixing knowledge, etc etc

At the moment, at this point in the project, it is done using orchestral libraries that I record on my keyboard into my computers and arrange. Eventually, some of it will be transcribed and recorded with a real orchestra.

Now, you would call that "musical", would you not?

Yet, if I sit down tomorrow in my spare time and write some drum n bass or trance or any other style of "electronic" music, using the exact same tools, you don't believe that's music anymore? You don't believe that requires the same amount of knowledge (with perhaps the weight of importance shifted from one skill-set to another) as the orchestral arrangment?

How absurd.

It requires "different" skills, but they ALL relate to musicality at the end of the day.

Don't let your dislike of a particular sound or genre of music get in the way of the facts, or indeed your own knowledge of (or lack of) a particular subject.

There are an endless amount of skills involved in creating good electronic music. What a lot of it perhaps lacks in traditional "musical theory", it MORE than makes up for in detailed sound-design knowledge, amongst other things.

Hell, it takes me longer to create a good drum n bass track than it does a full orchestral arrangment!


Sound design and knowledge of technology (and knowing how to twist the tools) are just different aspects of music these days, and to be perfectly honest, were really (and perhaps most famously) pioneered by The Beatles and George Martin.... when they began chopping tape, changing speeds, reversing the tape etc etc etc.

It's all the same. It's all music.

 

[Schism]

Ok, I'll bite.

Electronic/dance music is not so much about "traditional" musical theory as it is about sound design and production. It's about tweaking every detail of every sound. It's about creating layers of grooves that work together, are EQ'd and filtered to work together, are compressed to work together.....it's about abusing tools and breaking rules....pushing things to new limits..... it's even about psychology to a point..... and yes, all in a musical way of course, however, what you might call "traditional music theory" is NOT always where the weight of importance lies. It's a completely different kind of music to Bach, or Mozart. Therefore, it requires a different approach, and a different skill-set.

In my opinion, there is so much more talent and knowledge required to create GOOD electronic music than there is in playing a guitar in a rock band. I know because I've done both for years. This whole "electronic music requires no talent" rubbish is the biggest ignorant myth in music today. (funnily enough always pushed by people who have no idea about electronic music, and who generally don't like electronic music. Hmmm, let me see.... I think I see a connection there...? )

That said, yes it's possible to throw some shit together from loop packs and sample packs and create a "tune".... and yes, unfortunately, there are people out there who do this, but they are generally seen through for what they are - lame and boring, which is (in my opinion) exactly what 95% of electronic music is.

Yes - there's no denying that there's a crapload of terrible dance/electronic music. But how is that any different to ANY other genre/style of music?

However, there's also some absolutely amazing electronic music being made, across ALL genres. I challenge anybody to listen to some Shpongle and tell me it's not some of the most beautiful music ever created.

The only way I could truly "educate" you is if you came over to my studio and watched me create a dance/electronic tune. I could show you first-hand the many skills involved in it. From EQ'ing each hit, to adjusting the envelopes of each hit, to sidechain compressing bass lines and percussion lines to beats and then tweaking the ratio, threshold, attack and release times of the compressor to make it slam and pump as much as it musically can, to automating LFO's synced to filter cutoffs to get twisty warping basslines, to layering more twisty LFO'd basslines to get even more morphy basslines, to digging through crates of record to find weird samples to chop up and mangle....

....all the way through to me playing synths, pianos, playing and recording live instruments, micing up my guitar amp to record some guitars.... hell, even micing up a drumkit and multitrack recording drum parts to use as well. (which in itself requires about 5 different skills that need to be learned and practised over years... drumming, engineering know-how, recording know-how, mixing know-how..... are you getting the idea yet?)

As for psychology, creating dance music in particular is about getting inside the head of the listeners/clubbers. It's about controlling their minds, bodies, and even emotions when they're dancing/listening. It's about creating and controlling every detail of that big build-up.... the anticipation before the tune drops and everybody goes nuts. It's generally (not always of course) about keeping the momentum and keeping the vibe flowing and building etc etc etc. In fact, controlling and creating emotions is certainly not just exclusive to dance music, but all kinds of music. It is perhaps more physical though in dance music.

If all the things I've mentioned above are less "musical" than playing a few power chords on a guitar and singing some shit lyrics over the top, then I guess I've been fooling everybody for the past 14 years that I've been paid good money to create all kinds of music (including electronic/dance and often a fusion of many different styles) for videogames, tv shows, movies.... etc etc...

(not just electronic either, but everything from full orchestral arrangements, to metal, to jazz, to latin, to everything in-between.)

In fact, at the moment, I'm spending my days composing and arranging orchestral music for a big-budget videogame. That involves writing/playing every cello part, violin, viola, bass, trumpets, flutes, percussion, oboes, bassoons, etc etc etc. Every single part. It requires musical skill (playing the piano and various other instruments), knowledge of how each of those instruments is generally used in an orchestral arrangement, arrangement knowledge, production/engineering/mixing knowledge, etc etc

At the moment, at this point in the project, it is done using orchestral libraries that I record on my keyboard into my computers and arrange. Eventually, some of it will be transcribed and recorded with a real orchestra.

Now, you would call that "musical", would you not?

Yet, if I sit down tomorrow in my spare time and write some drum n bass or trance or any other style of "electronic" music, using the exact same tools, you don't believe that's music anymore? You don't believe that requires the same amount of knowledge (with perhaps the weight of importance shifted from one skill-set to another) as the orchestral arrangment?

How absurd.

It requires "different" skills, but they ALL relate to musicality at the end of the day.

Don't let your dislike of a particular sound or genre of music get in the way of the facts, or indeed your own knowledge of (or lack of) a particular subject.

There are an endless amount of skills involved in creating good electronic music. What a lot of it perhaps lacks in traditional "musical theory", it MORE than makes up for in detailed sound-design knowledge, amongst other things.

Hell, it takes me longer to create a good drum n bass track than it does a full orchestral arrangment!


Sound design and knowledge of technology (and knowing how to twist the tools) are just different aspects of music these days, and to be perfectly honest, were really (and perhaps most famously) pioneered by The Beatles and George Martin.... when they began chopping tape, changing speeds, reversing the tape etc etc etc.

It's all the same. It's all music.

Stopped reading at highlighted

 

[Roos4eva]

Stopped reading at highlighted

This.

Henry Rollins speaks the truth in the following clip:

[YOUTUBE]AyRDDOpKaLM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[.Shotties.]

Wow, he answered the question, and very well too, and you guys just pulled out the "too long, didn't read" act because he disagreed with the opinion he held.

Tell me, what about playing guitar in a band is more difficult than fully producing a good electronic track?

 

[gPhonque]

Wow, he answered the question, and very well too, and you guys just pulled out the "too long, didn't read" act because he disagreed with the opinion he held.

That's just another reason why I make my living from music and they don't.

Tell me, what about playing guitar in a band is more difficult than fully producing a good electronic track?

I'd like to know the answer to that too.

If they really think that playing guitar in a rock band is so hard, then they must obviously just really suck at guitar.