D4 D4 2008

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bigwaz said:
And another thing....

The quality of any league relies on its depth. If a bunch of D4 clubs went belly up, there wouldn't be any relegation in D3? Then they would have nothing to play for either... The league needs to support the teams at the wrong end of the table... allow us to grow by:

reducing the association fees for D4 clubs (especially as we're travelling more than anyone else, get crappier umpires, play on crappier grounds and hence sustain more injuries. We ask for less membership money, can't sell a footy record for anything other than $0, etc... etc...)
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The fees are reduced they become more expensive as you progress through the grades.
 
I haven't seen a single player this year in D4 that to me hasn't been having a red hot go,this automaticly transfers to their clubs having an ABSOLUTE crack at every game,I cannot beleive the arogance of this CEO bagging his own clubs who after all are paying his salary,I'll lay you a 100 to 1 his mail box is bursting at the seams and I'll bet the comments aren't favourable,injured players taking the field to make up numbers,committees working their ar@es off,takes a bit to get me steamed but who the hell does this idiot think he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
It's true there is a large drop off in the standard of football from c to d4. Even from d3 to d4.

It is also true that there are teams in d4 that will probably be here for a while. That's the nature of competition. There are winners and losers.

But Sholly's concern here is so manufactured. So petty. He's the CEO of the league, and he's writing as though the D4 comp is some separate entity to the rest of the VAFA. Some bastard child over which he has no control.

"content to play for recreational purposes" Is the phrase that got me.

Such implied disrespect. Surely every single Amateurs player (including A grade guys) over the age of about 24 is playing for 'recreational purposes'. IE - Because they enjoy playing football on a Saturday.

(Actually, I'd argue that AFL players are doing that too, except that they get the bonus of being paid tens of thousands of dollars to do it.)

Hey Sholly, if you care that much about the disparate results and embarrassing percentages in our league - and let's be honest, reading those figures is as close as you get to D4 football - what about doing something about it?

Unless the key symptoms of a club's on-field failure is addressed - that is the ability to recruit quality players and remain financially solvent - there will be no change, and the competition will remain uneven.

If clubs had the money to develop their facilities and the 'atmosphere' that will attract players, their on-field performance will improve.

I'm not asking for hand-outs - but what about a little understanding about what it takes for a low grade amateur football club to survive?

What about easing the financial burden of the outrageously high affiliation fees each club pays? Or at least, distributing it in such a way that low grade clubs see some benefit. Personally, I think it's a bit rich that the majority of VAFA clubs bear the cost of flying A and B grade rep players to Queensland or Sydney every year.

While rep football is undoubtedly important, so is the ability for low grade clubs to survive. Surely having VAFA teams in 'growth corridor areas' that can actually compete with other teams is as important to the VAFA as flying a team of A and B grade under 19's to Queensland to get flogged?

And here's one for ya:

What about easing the zero tolerance restrictions on the serving of alcohol at low grade games so our mates will actually come and watch us and put some money over the bar?

The VAFA's tag line is fine - fostering family friendly football. Nice. Cute.

But there's a problem. In D4 - we do not have 'families' that come to our games.

We have three old guys, and a couple of ex-players and occasionally a dog.

AND - guess what?

They, dead sober, yell and swear and abuse our opposition anyway.

They don't want to start fights. They want to get involved. It's entertainment. It's social catharsis. It's blood for the masses. It's primal. Beer or no beer, there will be abuse.

I'm not talking about letting people get completely paraletic, but surely clubs can manage the responsible operation of a bar at games. Chuck a guy with an RSA in there. Train them to deal with the public.

Most people don't come to suburban games to start fights anyway, and if they do, they're a knob and will do it regardless of whether or not they're drinking a can.

Finally, what about offering some support to low grade clubs in our battles with councils over ground access and maintenance?

The VAFA should be engaging in discussion with councils on the club's behalf. We shouldn't have to beg and cry and pander. The weight of the association should be behind the idea that a suburban football is good for a community.

If the league cared, it would go in to bat for the clubs that are struggling in this area.

Anyway. This has turned into a rant.

All I want to say is that for God's sake, Michael Sholly - think about your position.

If you care as much as you profess to about the inequality in the standard of the D4 competition you will address the causes of the problem.That is; off-field and financial difficulty, before you go to the unnecessary elaborate measure of restructuring the competition in reaction to the symptom of poor on-field performance.

That's all. The_Arm is worn out.
 

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crazybear said:
Was.

You are always going to have bottom sides in each grade. The clubs you have listed bar swinburne are all a chance to stay up if they win the required games. They have something to play for as they can still stay in the grade they are currently in. The fear of relegation may see these teams roll a few sides higher than them to stay alive.
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Question: If these lowly teams can rally and "knock off" the top sides to save relegation - why are they not doing this all year???

Answer: Because it doesn't happen often at all in reality, and if it does its just luck.

WHY: Because I am sure these teams try as hard as they can all year, and if they where good enough, they would be winning anyway.

Someone has to be at the bottom!
 
crazybear said:
The fees are reduced they become more expensive as you progress through the grades.
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I'm not 100% sure, but I think we pay the same fees as C or D1 grade?

Why not have a sliding scale?

I understand the vafa has to remain financially viable, and I'm sure they're not actively trying to make a profit. All I'm saying is that they could be a little more lenient when it comes to the lesser grades.

I don't like the idea of alcohol at games though... We don't need the trouble that that is likely to cause.

Mike Sholley has attended Richmond Central functions in the past and is a very decent bloke.
 
Peter_Pan said:
Quality rant from The Arm.
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Agree.

There is a variation in standards in the grades... there should be, but someone is always going to be at the bottom whether you have two grades or ten.

There's no relegation but I'm sure no one wants to finish last, no one wants to see new teams coming in and charging up the grades while they stagnate. The improvements of Centrals, Cobras, BHN, and others is testament to the efforts made on and off field regardless of relegation threats.

Kudos to the bloke from Syndal too. It was pretty much one way traffic for them last week but they played through it, played the game out and seemed a decent bunch of blokes. They're not on the bottom through lack of effort. It takes some guts to front up each week and play through injury for little immediate reward.
 
I think enough has been said and if the CEO has the courage or gonads to back his unfounded statements up, he should be given that right.

Mr Sholley, this forum is always open to you to respond to the passion that has been shown on this board.

Please include in your response the real motive behind your ramble.
 
As a player origionally from the country I can not agree more with the arm, i have lost count of the amount of times mates down from the bush want to come to the footy only to change their mind when they find out they can't have a few cans on the sideline. Sure you dont want fiiled to the brim eskies coming in but surely if the club has a licence they can control th 10 blokes that might be havin a beer during the game. you never know, the 2's might even hang around till the end of the day.
 
I remember in 06 at uni high, we played all year, along with st marys (but they dont count cos they d!ck heads) to only win 1 game.. it was apparent from about 4 games into the season that the only chance to win a game we had was to beat marys and vice versa.

We still rocked up to training, every tues and thurs, running round in the cold wet winter, shivering till i couldnt feel my skin, without enough players to do a full ground drill without us needing to call on monaghetti like stamina, To come out and face teams far better than us on saturadays, knowing there was barely a chance 4 us. Not once did we turn up to lose the game, we gave the best we could and before the siren we all beleived we had a chance.. after quarter time, we're getting smashed, and still, backing into packs, puting heads over the pill and playing with torn muscles even though if the other team went home then we prob would still lose.

Down 2 D4, and the recruiting starts early. We played all year reversing the result, but having played 06, i never forgot what it was like 4 us. Thats why i cant hang it on a team like Bulleen (last yr) The players who turn up when their side is struggling badly really can set the tone 4 the clubs future, and they all have my respect.
 
nikko teen58 said:
I remember in 06 at uni high, we played all year, along with st marys (but they dont count cos they d!ck heads) to only win 1 game.. it was apparent from about 4 games into the season that the only chance to win a game we had was to beat marys and vice versa.

We still rocked up to training, every tues and thurs, running round in the cold wet winter, shivering till i couldnt feel my skin, without enough players to do a full ground drill without us needing to call on monaghetti like stamina, To come out and face teams far better than us on saturadays, knowing there was barely a chance 4 us. Not once did we turn up to lose the game, we gave the best we could and before the siren we all beleived we had a chance.. after quarter time, we're getting smashed, and still, backing into packs, puting heads over the pill and playing with torn muscles even though if the other team went home then we prob would still lose.

Down 2 D4, and the recruiting starts early. We played all year reversing the result, but having played 06, i never forgot what it was like 4 us. Thats why i cant hang it on a team like Bulleen (last yr) The players who turn up when their side is struggling badly really can set the tone 4 the clubs future, and they all have my respect.
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Well said Mr. Milicevic
 

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bigwaz said:
The "Fear of Relegation" hasn't seemed to make much of an impact on these higher level clubs this year:

Whitefriars (C - 2-11)
Yarra Valley (D1 - 2-11)
Aquinas (D1 2-11)
St Mary's (D2 2-11)
Swinburne (D3 1-12)

Or Kew last year (D3 1-17)
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haha cheat there was up when the choak and straight back down hate that club
 
Moo Szyslak said:
As a player origionally from the country I can not agree more with the arm, i have lost count of the amount of times mates down from the bush want to come to the footy only to change their mind when they find out they can't have a few cans on the sideline. Sure you dont want fiiled to the brim eskies coming in but surely if the club has a licence they can control th 10 blokes that might be havin a beer during the game. you never know, the 2's might even hang around till the end of the day.
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It's an age old question that keeps popping up and while the current regeme hold court, we have effectively no chance.....

Last year at the Punt Rd Game we were allowed to sell Mid Strenght and it was an undoubted success.

i think there should be a balance, and it you only sold cans during the seniors, or from half time onwards, no one will have the time to get seriously smashed.
 
Moo Szyslak said:
As a player origionally from the country I can not agree more with the arm, i have lost count of the amount of times mates down from the bush want to come to the footy only to change their mind when they find out they can't have a few cans on the sideline. Sure you dont want fiiled to the brim eskies coming in but surely if the club has a licence they can control th 10 blokes that might be havin a beer during the game. you never know, the 2's might even hang around till the end of the day.
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No way... Go to a D4 GF and look at the state of the ressies players by the end of the seniors... ouch.
 
The_Arm said:
It's true there is a large drop off in the standard of football from c to d4. Even from d3 to d4.

It is also true that there are teams in d4 that will probably be here for a while. That's the nature of competition. There are winners and losers.

But Sholly's concern here is so manufactured. So petty. He's the CEO of the league, and he's writing as though the D4 comp is some separate entity to the rest of the VAFA. Some bastard child over which he has no control.

"content to play for recreational purposes" Is the phrase that got me.

Such implied disrespect. Surely every single Amateurs player (including A grade guys) over the age of about 24 is playing for 'recreational purposes'. IE - Because they enjoy playing football on a Saturday.

(Actually, I'd argue that AFL players are doing that too, except that they get the bonus of being paid tens of thousands of dollars to do it.)

Hey Sholly, if you care that much about the disparate results and embarrassing percentages in our league - and let's be honest, reading those figures is as close as you get to D4 football - what about doing something about it?

Unless the key symptoms of a club's on-field failure is addressed - that is the ability to recruit quality players and remain financially solvent - there will be no change, and the competition will remain uneven.

If clubs had the money to develop their facilities and the 'atmosphere' that will attract players, their on-field performance will improve.

I'm not asking for hand-outs - but what about a little understanding about what it takes for a low grade amateur football club to survive?

What about easing the financial burden of the outrageously high affiliation fees each club pays? Or at least, distributing it in such a way that low grade clubs see some benefit. Personally, I think it's a bit rich that the majority of VAFA clubs bear the cost of flying A and B grade rep players to Queensland or Sydney every year.

While rep football is undoubtedly important, so is the ability for low grade clubs to survive. Surely having VAFA teams in 'growth corridor areas' that can actually compete with other teams is as important to the VAFA as flying a team of A and B grade under 19's to Queensland to get flogged?

And here's one for ya:

What about easing the zero tolerance restrictions on the serving of alcohol at low grade games so our mates will actually come and watch us and put some money over the bar?

The VAFA's tag line is fine - fostering family friendly football. Nice. Cute.

But there's a problem. In D4 - we do not have 'families' that come to our games.

We have three old guys, and a couple of ex-players and occasionally a dog.

AND - guess what?

They, dead sober, yell and swear and abuse our opposition anyway.

They don't want to start fights. They want to get involved. It's entertainment. It's social catharsis. It's blood for the masses. It's primal. Beer or no beer, there will be abuse.

I'm not talking about letting people get completely paraletic, but surely clubs can manage the responsible operation of a bar at games. Chuck a guy with an RSA in there. Train them to deal with the public.

Most people don't come to suburban games to start fights anyway, and if they do, they're a knob and will do it regardless of whether or not they're drinking a can.

Finally, what about offering some support to low grade clubs in our battles with councils over ground access and maintenance?

The VAFA should be engaging in discussion with councils on the club's behalf. We shouldn't have to beg and cry and pander. The weight of the association should be behind the idea that a suburban football is good for a community.

If the league cared, it would go in to bat for the clubs that are struggling in this area.

Anyway. This has turned into a rant.

All I want to say is that for God's sake, Michael Sholly - think about your position.

If you care as much as you profess to about the inequality in the standard of the D4 competition you will address the causes of the problem.That is; off-field and financial difficulty, before you go to the unnecessary elaborate measure of restructuring the competition in reaction to the symptom of poor on-field performance.

That's all. The_Arm is worn out.
Click to expand...


Whoever this "ARM" bloke is, I vote to have him and the rest of his body as the next VAFA CEO. Shame Michael Sholly, shame.


huru
 
Here's an idea, why not form a splinter league from D1 down including club XVIII. The league could be called the Victorian Amateur Football League.

D1 could be "A"
D2 "B"
D3 "C"
D4 "D"
Clubbies can E1, E2 etc, etc...

"The Arm" can be it's first CEO.


That will shut Michael Sholly up.



Huru
 
Started reading your forum cos I used to play at BHN 1000 years ago before moving north.

Clubs can't sell beer at home games? You have got to be kidding. I'm up in NSW country where AFL is a minor code run by people with a passion for the game. We don't get the big bikkies Rugby League gets in sponsorship so our canteen sales mean we charge players $200 a year to play not $600. It also means we get opposition reserves players and ours staying to support. This is our crowd.
No-one gets stupid on the grog - it just isnt done.

While there in Victoria we had the occasional tiff off field but I can't remember in the 8 yearsI played at BHN that any stoush that was caused by the demon drink.

D4 is grass roots footy - its as Aussie as cattledogs and utes. Play hard and enjoy the rivalries. Don't let the commissars roll ya.
 
MerkSaysWhat said:
Started reading your forum cos I used to play at BHN 1000 years ago before moving north.

Clubs can't sell beer at home games? You have got to be kidding. I'm up in NSW country where AFL is a minor code run by people with a passion for the game. We don't get the big bikkies Rugby League gets in sponsorship so our canteen sales mean we charge players $200 a year to play not $600. It also means we get opposition reserves players and ours staying to support. This is our crowd.
No-one gets stupid on the grog - it just isnt done.

While there in Victoria we had the occasional tiff off field but I can't remember in the 8 yearsI played at BHN that any stoush that was caused by the demon drink.

D4 is grass roots footy - its as Aussie as cattledogs and utes. Play hard and enjoy the rivalries. Don't let the commissars roll ya.
Click to expand...

Heard you had booked flights to come down to the 25 year celebration. Catch up on the day. :thumbsu:
 
Mt Lilydale defeated St Francis by less than a goal in an even and well faught out match. St Francis took advantage of a consistant wind in the
1st qtr to lead by 6 goals before Mt Lilydale had their chance with the wind in the 2nd qtr and went into the half time break leading by 2 goals. The second half was played out in exactly the same way with St Francis kicking away from Mt Lilydale in the 3rd qtr only to see the mountain men peg back a lead in the last and eventually hang on for the win.
 
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