Confirmed Trade: Mitch Clarke to MELBOURNE for Pick 12.

[Jimthegreat]

Unproven? LOL


He almost made the AA team in 2009.

Remind me what the kid who will be drafted at pick 12 has done at AFL level?

Never know, that Pick 12 might win a Brownlow (might be a dud too). Not always about "now".

Clark had one good season in the ruck, NOT as forward where he has been damn ordinary. Actually had one good season in 6. Fair chance pick 12 might turn out to be a better player. How much money? Freo weren't prepared to compromise their list and pay him ridiculous amounts unlike others.

Last 3 pick 12's were Lucas Cook, Kane Lucas and Steele Sidebottom. Certainly some decent ability there.

 

[Jazzed]

Brisbane and Fremantle are both winners from this saga. Brisbane get pick 12, and Fremantle don't have to pay obscene amounts of money to an underperforming player.

However Clark is a quality talent, and i think Fremantle would have definitely used him heavily in the ruck, Sandilands is aging and has suffered serious injuries the past two seasons. Zac Clarke is young and promising, but still raw.

Melbourne acted desperately. They had Scully walk away after a whole year of negative publicity, and have lost the plot. Paying Clark more than Travis Cloke, Matthew Pavlich and Joel Selwood will hurt them. Reminds me of the Nathan Brown to Richmond deal, just a sideways move.

Bottom line is Melbourne set aside cap space for Scully, when he bolted they gave it to whoever they could grasp. Mitch Clark is one very, very lucky man.

 

[raffrox]

Brisbane and Fremantle are both winners from this saga. Brisbane get pick 12, and Fremantle don't have to pay obscene amounts of money to an underperforming player.

However Clark is a quality talent, and i think Fremantle would have definitely used him heavily in the ruck, Sandilands is aging and has suffered serious injuries the past two seasons. Zac Clarke is young and promising, but still raw.

Melbourne acted desperately. They had Scully walk away after a whole year of negative publicity, and have lost the plot. Paying Clark more than Travis Cloke, Matthew Pavlich and Joel Selwood will hurt them. Reminds me of the Nathan Brown to Richmond deal, just a sideways move.

Bottom line is Melbourne set aside cap space for Scully, when he bolted they gave it to whoever they could grasp. Mitch Clark is one very, very lucky man.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Brisbane and Fremantle are both winners from this saga. Brisbane get pick 12, and Fremantle don't have to pay obscene amounts of money to an underperforming player.

However Clark is a quality talent, and i think Fremantle would have definitely used him heavily in the ruck, Sandilands is aging and has suffered serious injuries the past two seasons. Zac Clarke is young and promising, but still raw.

Melbourne acted desperately. They had Scully walk away after a whole year of negative publicity, and have lost the plot. Paying Clark more than Travis Cloke, Matthew Pavlich and Joel Selwood will hurt them. Reminds me of the Nathan Brown to Richmond deal, just a sideways move.

Bottom line is Melbourne set aside cap space for Scully, when he bolted they gave it to whoever they could grasp. Mitch Clark is one very, very lucky man.

Good to see a Fremantle supporter like this post; at least try to make it look like you don't want this to fail for the Dees.

There are ways of looking at this deal and you have chosen to look at it in a negative way, suit yourself.

I know I'm very comfortable with current situation.

 

[PapaJ]

Brisbane and Fremantle are both winners from this saga. Brisbane get pick 12, and Fremantle don't have to pay obscene amounts of money to an underperforming player.

However Clark is a quality talent, and i think Fremantle would have definitely used him heavily in the ruck, Sandilands is aging and has suffered serious injuries the past two seasons. Zac Clarke is young and promising, but still raw.

Melbourne acted desperately. They had Scully walk away after a whole year of negative publicity, and have lost the plot. Paying Clark more than Travis Cloke, Matthew Pavlich and Joel Selwood will hurt them. Reminds me of the Nathan Brown to Richmond deal, just a sideways move.

Bottom line is Melbourne set aside cap space for Scully, when he bolted they gave it to whoever they could grasp. Mitch Clark is one very, very lucky man.

This is one of the more sensible posts I've seen in this thread and I think you've got it about right. Except that I think you can add that Melbourne are also winners. In the end of the day they had the money to spend so they spent it while they could get some value for it. Through their 'Scully story' (cough, tanking, cough) they also had picks and so why not use them. Freo simply could not compete with the sort of desperation that Melbourne had and could exercise.

Melbourne got a player well suited to their needs, Freo missed out but have their picks and avoid any salary cap issues that they may have had if they were to match Melbourne's offer, and Bris got an extra 4 spots out of a player that was walking anyway. I think everybody can just chill and be happy with their wins (or in Freo's case 'non-event'?).

 

[Obeanie1]

The trade is done but people are still arguing

Two teams supporters are pretty happy and patting each other on the back and the other teams supporters are denying they missed out on a very good player about to hit his prime.

I'll leave it up to you to work out who's who.

So its not technically arguing.

 

[Jazzed]

Good to see a Fremantle supporter like this post; at least try to make it look like you don't want this to fail for the Dees.

There are ways of looking at this deal and you have chosen to look at it in a negative way, suit yourself.

I know I'm very comfortable with current situation.

I hope it works out for Melb, not wishing failure or anything.

It's just I'd be more excited about the continued progression of guys like Tapscott, Blease and Watts etc. Add that to the Scully compensation picks and Viney and you have the long term platform for success.

Geelong for example only traded for Ottens after a preliminary final loss. I just don't think recruiting Clark on big money is the best thing for Melbourne in terms of winning a premiership.

It's all water under the bridge now and hopefully he rekindles some of his 09 form.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Nah, I wasn't saying you want it to fail.

Simply the Fremantle supporters who 'protest too much' and then agree with every post questioning the move... but also say they don't care.

 

[silverscope]

Then why are there 29 pages of Freo fans whining and making up silly names like schwobolly etc?


Fact is Bond failed to read the situation and Freo missed an absolute gimme. If that's your idea of success, then I understand misgivings on cuddles Connally's etc.

Have a look at my previous post in this thread to see why we don't like Schwobbly.

Well isn't it lucky neither have anything to do with the football department. They are in off field roles were we can all agree they excel!

Unfortunately for you; yes, he did a shit job at Freo irt the FD.

He's a brilliant CEO and he's made no such moves to control the FD at Melbourne (at least not anywhere near to the Freo situation).

I'll leave you with a few quotes... make of it what you will...

"I went back to Perth and spoke to my family about the decision. Obviously [Melbourne chief executive] Cameron (Schwab) was hassling me a fair bit through text messages," he said.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/125174/default.aspx

Young just on TWR.. categorically stated Schwab got involved, and in Youngs words... "When Schwab gets involved you know things are going to happen"...

Absolute gold...

Also said Schwab wouldnt let it go.... hence the increase in offers.

Looks like someone at the Dees forgot to remind him he is CEO not List Manager.

Yep....... I'd be worried if I was melbourne.... Free Agency next year.... may be interesting.......

Good Luck!

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Well I'm not worried, and I was aware he was involved in this.

However this is the first time he's been involved in a trade scenario with the MFC.

And despite your opinions, he's already set up the club well.

On TWR they also mentioned the Saints and Essendon CEO's being around the place.

I honestly could not care less who was involved in making the deal happen, the important thing was that it happened.

 

[Cat for Life]

In the end Freo did the right thing by walking away.
Where they made the mistake was their initial offer though, if they weren't trying to drive such a hard bargain and be so unreasonable, i.e. pick 16 definitely not on the table, then this trade could have been done last week and Melbourne would never have had the chance to get involved and drive his price up.

For the dees, it's a lot of money but they have the cap so no biggie. At 93%, they can still front load lots of contracts to make sure resigning players in a couple of years won't be an issue.

 

[Admiral Byng]

In the end Freo did the right thing by walking away.
Where they made the mistake was their initial offer though, if they weren't trying to drive such a hard bargain and be so unreasonable, i.e. pick 16 definitely not on the table, then this trade could have been done last week and Melbourne would never have had the chance to get involved and drive his price up.

What Bond said yesterday - he didn't want to put the first round pick 16 on the table until he had another first round pick to keep for Fremantle. Obviously there must be someone they have in mind for the draft, and they value that higher than getting Clark. Whether we call that a mistake or not is open to debate, but it does go some way to explain what Freo were doing. Also open to debate if that is being unreasonable and trying to screw over Brisbane or just doing things by your own agenda.

 

[royals1922]

What Bond said yesterday - he didn't want to put the first round pick 16 on the table until he had another first round pick to keep for Fremantle. Obviously there must be someone they have in mind for the draft, and they value that higher than getting Clark. Whether we call that a mistake or not is open to debate, but it does go some way to explain what Freo were doing. Also open to debate if that is being unreasonable and trying to screw over Brisbane or just doing things by your own agenda.

Or it might mean that Bond realised he screwed up and needed some justification for his action knowing the hardman visage had just blown up in Fremantle's face.

 

[Bender571]

In the end Freo did the right thing by walking away.
Where they made the mistake was their initial offer though, if they weren't trying to drive such a hard bargain and be so unreasonable, i.e. pick 16 definitely not on the table, then this trade could have been done last week and Melbourne would never have had the chance to get involved and drive his price up.

For the dees, it's a lot of money but they have the cap so no biggie. At 93%, they can still front load lots of contracts to make sure resigning players in a couple of years won't be an issue.

It depends who you believe though. Some reports suggest Freo offered pick 16 on Wednesday. That's not an unreasonable progression when you consider that pick 16 was likely to be a part of the mega trade with GWS that the AFL put a stop to and that when the deal fell through pick 16 might've been used in an attempt to get a mini-draft pick.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

In retrospect Melbourne overpaid.

I expect Freo to get more out of picks 16 and 20 than what Melbourne will get from Clark - although he will deliver more in 2012. The problem is that Melbourne have only really drafted one genuine forward (Watts) with their high draft picks in recent years. This is why they have to play catch up now.

Clark could be anything, but recent form suggests he's kind of inconsistent.

Brisbane are laughing now that they've got two picks in the first round - the only club that does, apart from GWS.

Vossy's crew has actually done very well. Hope Jordan Lisle (who they probably overpaid for) will kick a few bags.

I think they'll recover from the Fev disaster quicker than expected.

 

[oooze]

Are people forgetting Clark's age. SUre he hasnt found his 09 form yet but it's only because he is so good that he almost made All-Australian at 21/22 years of age. He shouldnt be paying for that now.

 

[royals1922]

Are people forgetting Clark's age. SUre he hasnt found his 09 form yet but it's only because he is so good that he almost made All-Australian at 21/22 years of age. He shouldnt be paying for that now.

Melbourne are obligated to spend the money under the cap. As Harrington said, even if Clark's money is added, the Demons are reaching low 90% of the salary cap.

So who else were they going to use it on in their team - they've let go a hell of their older players and one of their marquee players left them and gave them picks.

It really is a trade that requires little thought for Melbourne. If the trade does not work out, how much are they worse off. If it succeeds, they are geniuses. And all the while they have followed another of the tenets of good trading, that is, hurt an opposition side on the way through, that is Fremantle, with the trade you have made.

 

[Trav 20]

In retrospect Melbourne overpaid.

I expect Freo to get more out of picks 16 and 20 than what Melbourne will get from Clark - although he will deliver more in 2012. The problem is that Melbourne have only really drafted one genuine forward (Watts) with their high draft picks in recent years. This is why they have to play catch up now.

Clark could be anything, but recent form suggests he's kind of inconsistent.

Pick 12 wasn't "overpaying" in an average draft that is compromised. The guy has got 80 games into him and will play all of next year as a 24 year old. He's on the cusp of his prime and has already shown what he's capable of. It's no surprise that a 200cm tall not yet 24 has been "inconsistent". I'll back his talent and our club to further develop that talent. With our new coaching structures he won't be lacking support.

Also, we've got Viney coming in a year's time, as well as two first round draft picks in a bumper draft. So off-loading pick 12 this year to get a player WE deem to be important to our structure makes sense. Do I put my faith in Neeld and the gameplan and structures he intends to implement or your shallow thinking ?

You have no idea how picks 16 and 20 will go, but I'll be very surprised if they offer more value than Clark.

You also say that Watts is the only "genuine forward we've drafted in recent years". You're wrong. We drafted a 196cm tall AA forward at pick 12 last year in Lucas Cook. He'll take time, but he looks a good prospect.

EDIT: I should add that Fitzpatrick was also recruited as a 200cm forward/ruck.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Pick 12 wasn't "overpaying" in an average draft that is compromised. The guy has got 80 games into him and will play all of next year as a 24 year old. He's on the cusp of his prime and has already shown what he's capable of. It's no surprise that a 200cm tall not yet 24 has been "inconsistent". I'll back his talent and our club to further develop that talent. With our new coaching structures he won't be lacking support.

Also, we've got Viney coming in a year's time, as well as two first round draft picks in a bumper draft. So off-loading pick 12 this year to get a player WE deem to be important to our structure makes sense. Do I put my faith in Neeld and the gameplan and structures he intends to implement or your shallow thinking ?

You have no idea how picks 16 and 20 will go, but I'll be very surprised if they offer more value than Clark.

You also say that Watts is the only "genuine forward we've drafted in recent years". You're wrong. We drafted a 196cm tall AA forward at pick 12 last year in Lucas Cook. He'll take time, but he looks a good prospect.

EDIT: I should add that Fitzpatrick was also recruited as a 200cm forward/ruck.

Oh we're going to turn to the snide insults are we?

Hmmmm.

Ask yourself how many players go from inconsistent to magnificent players after switching clubs? Do you think it happens often? What do you think the strike rate is of clubs that pick up a player hoping to turn his form around?

As for Melbourne's drafting of KPF's:
Cook and Fitzpatrick.
Total games between them?

1

Melbourne hasn't exactly been a high performing side in recent years - so you'd think that they'd be pumping games into their promising young players to give them exposure at the highest level. And they have - they've built a very nice backline and are developing a strong midfield.

But guess what?

Up forward the cupboard is bare. And due to this drafting/developmental inadequacy Melbourne has been forced to pay an inconsistent Ruck/Forward an extremely high salary to get him across.

So it's not a matter of choosing between Neeld's thinking or mine - we've both looked at your list and gone "Shit - we need a forward because we haven't drafted or developed any in the last few years despite having bucketloads of high draft picks and been in the lower half of the ladder".

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

KPP's take longer; this is obvious.

We've drafted and are developing a lot of forward options... it's just that they will take a lot of time.

Cook is 80kg's, Fitz was 83 and 200cm's.

Cook is the safest bet IMO, he's a genuinely smart player and he'll be a very good option for us as a second or third tall.

He might even be able to take over a CHB role when Rivers no longer can.

We drafted poorly before 2006; this is the reason behind our struggles.

There was a period between 2000 and 2005 where we just didn't get good talent in; and when we did (ala Sylvia and McLean) we ****ed up their development due to poor sports science and injury management (thank god Sylvia is getting past that).

The 2008 and 09 drafts are going to be the nucleus of our team.

 

[Andy_Mac]

In retrospect

Melbourne overpaid.

A)I expect Freo to get more out of picks 16 and 20 than what Melbourne will get from Clark - although he will deliver more in 2012. B)The problem is that Melbourne have only really drafted one genuine forward (Watts) with their high draft picks in recent years. This is why they have to play catch up now.

A) P12 is hardly over paying in a compromised draft. P16 & P20 may have been, but it didn't happen so its irrelevant. P11 for Brick McLean is over paying.

B) We drafted the AA CHF last year at the very same pick as we traded. But yes well done, we drafted for a need with Clark. Please refer David Hale last year.

A)Ask yourself how many players go from inconsistent to magnificent players after switching clubs? Do you think it happens often? What do you think the strike rate is of clubs that pick up a player hoping to turn his form around?


B)Up forward the cupboard is bare. And due to this drafting/developmental inadequacy Melbourne has been forced to pay an inconsistent Ruck/Forward an extremely high salary to get him across.

So it's not a matter of choosing between Neeld's thinking or mine - we've both looked at your list and gone "Shit - we need a forward because we haven't drafted or developed any in the last few years despite having bucketloads of high draft picks and been in the lower half of the ladder".

A) Hale seems to have turned it around. Clark has twice the talent.

B) Drafting can hardly called inadequate when we've picked 6/9 KPP in the last 2 drafts. As others have mentioned blokes like Brad Miller and Luke Molan are the KPF drafted in the early 2000's that hurt us.

 

[Selggad]

This is one of the more sensible posts I've seen in this thread and I think you've got it about right. Except that I think you can add that Melbourne are also winners. In the end of the day they had the money to spend so they spent it while they could get some value for it. Through their 'Scully story' (cough, tanking, cough) they also had picks and so why not use them. Freo simply could not compete with the sort of desperation that Melbourne had and could exercise.

Melbourne got a player well suited to their needs, Freo missed out but have their picks and avoid any salary cap issues that they may have had if they were to match Melbourne's offer, and Bris got an extra 4 spots out of a player that was walking anyway. I think everybody can just chill and be happy with their wins (or in Freo's case 'non-event'?).

Bit of win/loss for everybody, but mostly positives. Brissy have lost a promising player who should be coming into his prime but get an excellent draft pick: Freo have improved their draft position (pick 20) and banked their money but may have missed an opportunity; and Melbourne have an exciting player coming to the club, but have paid top price.

At this stage Melbourne have the biggest risk because Clark has to perform at a consistently high level to justify the deal. If he does, Freo may look a little worse in the trading, but no-one with any sense would expect us to match what Melbourne put on the table. They had to sell part of the farm because Clark wanted to go to Freo, but they had the room to do it.

Good luck to everybody, I'm excited by our draft prospects for 2011 now, and have no regrets about how this eventuated.

 

[Trav 20]

Ask yourself how many players go from inconsistent to magnificent players after switching clubs? Do you think it happens often? What do you think the strike rate is of clubs that pick up a player hoping to turn his form around?

As for Melbourne's drafting of KPF's:
Cook and Fitzpatrick.
Total games between them?

1

Melbourne hasn't exactly been a high performing side in recent years - so you'd think that they'd be pumping games into their promising young players to give them exposure at the highest level. And they have - they've built a very nice backline and are developing a strong midfield.

But guess what?

Up forward the cupboard is bare. And due to this drafting/developmental inadequacy Melbourne has been forced to pay an inconsistent Ruck/Forward an extremely high salary to get him across.

Clearly there's a reason that Cook and Fitzpatrick haven't been playing. They weren't ready. Contrary to your assertion we've got games into plenty of kids, including 2011 debutants Evans, McDonald, Nicholson, Howe, Blease, Gawn, and Tapscott. The year before it was Strauss, Gysberts, Spencer, Trengove and Scully. That's a dozen over two years. Watts was also given games that he didn't deserve, so your suggestion that Melbourne should be "pumping" games into players has been happening.

It's obvious that Clark addresses a need, which is why he was recruited. We've had needs everywhere and rightly the club first addressed the midfield when they recruited Scully, Trengove, and Gysberts in the first round of the 2009 draft. You don't win multiple spoons unless you have holes in your list. You're not exactly Sherlock Holmes.

As for Clark ? If you think a 23 year old 200cm tall has played his best footy in his first 80 games you're delusional and show a lack of understanding for our game.

And I don't agree that up forward the "cupboard is bare", especially now that Clark has joined the ranks. Watts, Clark, Jurrah, Howe, Sylvia, Green and possibly Davey shows tremendous flair and flexibility.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[Samsara]

Bit of win/loss for everybody, but mostly positives. Brissy have lost a promising player who should be coming into his prime but get an excellent draft pick: Freo have improved their draft position (pick 20) and banked their money but may have missed an opportunity; and Melbourne have an exciting player coming to the club, but have paid top price.

At this stage Melbourne have the biggest risk because Clark has to perform at a consistently high level to justify the deal. If he does, Freo may look a little worse in the trading, but no-one with any sense would expect us to match what Melbourne put on the table. They had to sell part of the farm because Clark wanted to go to Freo, but they had the room to do it.

Good luck to everybody, I'm excited by our draft prospects for 2011 now, and have no regrets about how this eventuated.

Another sensible post. All this bullshit pandering between fans is just ridiculous. Each team came out of this deal in pretty good shape. And truth be told, you won't really know for a couple of years time.

Brisbane could take an absolute gem of a player with pick 12, or he could be a spud. Same for Freo with the picks they've kept. Melbourne might get the KPP they really need in Clark, or he may be an overpaid dud for the next fours years.

Let's keep some perspective here people.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

im suprised this hasnt been closed