Coach Carlton under Voss

[Irish BlueBagger]

We're not talking about a normal job though, are we.

We went for the whole "messiah coach" thing with Mick Malthouse and that didn't work out. Carlton as a club are trying to break free from that sort of thing.

 

[CarterS]

Usually like to wait until about half way through the season so make a proper judgement about where a team is at... we've had teams who are 0-4 or 5 make the finals and we've had teams that are 5-1 miss the finals in the last few years. I'm seeing many people over react to a loss though, they got Adelaide on an absolute heater.

 

[Fadge]

When you're hiring someone for a job, all interested parties apply for the position and you hold an interview. It was up to Ross Lyon to apply for the job and then be interviewed for the vacant head coaches position.

The man had too much of an ego to do that though, and thought the job should be handed to him on a plate. Lyon is a good coach but there's no need for Carlton to have any regrets here imo.

Of course there would have been an application and interview. I suspect the breakdown want the 'extent' of process Lyon was expected to go through.

Ross had over 10 years of coaching at the AFL level, falling agonisingly short on multiple occasions, so everyone in the AFL landscape knows he can coach.

He would have reasonably expected a cut-down version of the 'process', where the selection committee would have spoken to him about things such as his motivation for coaching, proposed game plan in the current era, and his thoughts on the Carlton list.

I see both sides of the argument - Carlton wanted a level playing field whereby all coaches went through the same process, whilst Lyon wasn't unreasonable in his expectations that his coaching cv spoke for itself, and therefore shouldn't have had to go through the same exhaustive process as first time coaches, or coaches who weren't as 'successful' as him first time round.

Whilst it is early days, it does appear Lyon has gotten more from St Kilda to start the 2023 season than Voss has from Carlton in his first year and a bit...

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Of course there would have been an application and interview. I suspect the breakdown want the 'extent' of process Lyon was expected to go through.

Ross had over 10 years of coaching at the AFL level, falling agonisingly short on multiple occasions, so everyone in the AFL landscape knows he can coach.

He would have reasonably expected a cut-down version of the 'process', where the selection committee would have spoken to him about things such as his motivation for coaching, proposed game plan in the current era, and his thoughts on the Carlton list.

I see both sides of the argument - Carlton wanted a level playing field whereby all coaches went through the same process, whilst Lyon wasn't unreasonable in his expectations that his coaching cv spoke for itself, and therefore shouldn't have had to go through the same exhaustive process as first time coaches, or coaches who weren't as 'successful' as him first time round.

Whilst it is early days, it does appear Lyon has gotten more from St Kilda to start the 2023 season than Voss has from Carlton in his first year and a bit...

We'll see where both Carlton and the Saints are at the end of the year.

My one complaint about Ross Lyon though, is that the style of football his teams play is a bit dour, negative and defensive. His last few years at Fremantle weren't that great either imo.

 

[Sully111]

Why should the Carlton board have pandered to Ross Lyons ego? He didn't want to undergo the due process to be selected for the job, so as such there isn't an issue here.

It was up to Ross Lyon to sell his credentials to the board and he refused to do that. The Carlton board were then left with no other option, but to select a coach from the candidates, who were willing to partake in the selection process.

I believe David Parkin and Diesel Williams were part of that selection committee. I'd trust and value their opinions over some poster on big footy any day!

and how's that working out for you?

There were posters on our board crying out for due process when we appointed Ross

Our board showed a big pair of cajones and said screw all that... let's just go get the best out there. I applaud them for it.

Ross Lyon would absolutely kill it with Carlton's list. I guarantee they wouldn't be worrying about lack of process if they were playing great footy and making finals under Ross.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

and how's that working out for you?

There were posters on our board crying out for due process when we appointed Ross

Our board showed a big pair of cajones and said screw all that... let's just go get the best out there. I applaud them for it.

Ross Lyon would absolutely kill it with Carlton's list. I guarantee they wouldn't be worrying about lack of process if they were playing great footy and making finals under Ross.

We've only played five rounds of footy. It's way too early to be drawing any conclusions about Carlton, St Kilda, Michael Voss or Ross Lyon just yet.

 

[Fadge]

My one complaint about Ross Lyon though, is that the style of football his teams play is a bit dour, negative and defensive. His last few years at Fremantle weren't that great either imo.

Yep, that's obviously a big knock on Ross - the state of St. Kilda and Freo's lists at the end of his respective tenures at each club.

But that can't wholly be on the coach though.

 

[Fadge]

We've only played five rounds of footy. It's way too early to be drawing any conclusions about Carlton, St Kilda, Michael Voss or Ross Lyon just yet.

Correct. You can't draw conclusions, but you can have observations.

 

[citizen-erased]

Cripps has never been quick and a hard running crows midfield exposed the lack of support. Walsh was excellent for a guy playing his first game after a large lay off, but the rest of the midfield was non existent.

With the game opening up, those smaller, zippier mids have come on. The fact adelaide are running two hbf guns into AA mids says it all. Hollands was a good pick for them. Need a couple more like it

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Correct. You can't draw conclusions, but you can have observations.

The Saints game up next is really important. We need to bounce back from that fiasco against the Crows, and a win would also quieten down all this Carlton should've hired Ross Lyon talk.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

We went for the whole "messiah coach" thing with Mick Malthouse and that didn't work out. Carlton as a club are trying to break free from that sort of thing.

But you also went through the 'process' with Bolton and it didn't work out.

 

[Sully111]

We've only played five rounds of footy. It's way too early to be drawing any conclusions about Carlton, St Kilda, Michael Voss or Ross Lyon just yet.

Voss had you guys last season too.

 

[T2B_]

Excuses already....

Saints beat Freo with 14 players out. Mind you 3-6 of them were best 23 and the rest are rotations or youth but... Whatever.

St Kilda is interesting though because it could well be they are better off with their replacements and youf over a lot of their missing players.

 

[Fadge]

St Kilda is interesting though because it could well be they are better off with their replacements and youf over a lot of their missing players.

But doesn't that speak to the depth of St. Kilda's list and their ability to develop young players?

Which are two of Carlton's glaring deficiencies.

 

[T2B_]

But doesn't that speak to the depth of St. Kilda's list and their ability to develop young players?

Which are two of Carlton's glaring deficiencies.

Never said it didn't, troll boy.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Voss had you guys last season too.

I'd like to think that Carlton made the right choice in picking Voss. The ultimate answer to the question will be when whichever one of us flags first.

Lyon did the dirty on you though first time around, when he walked out to take the Dockers job.

I didn't like the way he was touting himself for the Carlton job and circling like a vulture, whilst David Teague was still employed by the club either. He's a good coach but a pretty crap person imo.

 

[Fadge]

Never said it didn't, troll boy.

OK.

I'm glad you understand that list depth and ability to develop young players are important in the current era.

 

[Sully111]

I'd like to think that Carlton made the right choice in picking Voss. The ultimate answer to the question will be when whichever one of us flags first.

Lyon did the dirty on you though first time around, when he walked out to take the Dockers job.

I didn't like the way he was touting himself for the Carlton job and circling like a vulture, whilst David Teague was still employed by the club either. He's a good coach but a pretty crap person imo.

I don't care if Lyon wakes up every morning and goes on a puppy kicking frenzy. He's a great AFL coach.

As far as how he left us... I don't think the club was blameless, but all that's irrelevant now.

Your list is stacked with A grade talent. It's ludicrous that you're not regularly making finals.

If it happens again this year, the Voss appointment is a failure. No ifs, buts or maybes.

I'm not going on a petty anti-carlton rant here. I'm looking at it from the perspective of if they were the team I followed. The way I see it is they were all in on Lyon and then sh*t the bed due to people crying "process". You've ended up with a coach who was dreadful at Brisbane, and who failed to get your stellar list to finals last year. If it's the same story this year I'd be absolutely livid.

Saints have been swimming in mediocrity since 2012. This is the first time since then I've actually felt like we were on track. Even at 8-3 last year, I didn't feel like we were playing that well. If our season unravels somewhat from here purely from a win/loss perspective, i've seen enough to know we're heading in the right direction with what Ross has put in place with regards to standards and gameplan.

 

[Arr0w]

But you also went through the 'process' with Bolton and it didn't work out.

Like all clubs, even ones that have never played finals

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I don't care if Lyon wakes up every morning and goes on a puppy kicking frenzy. He's a great AFL coach.

As far as how he left us... I don't think the club was blameless, but all that's irrelevant now.

Your list is stacked with A grade talent. It's ludicrous that you're not regularly making finals.

If it happens again this year, the Voss appointment is a failure. No ifs, buts or maybes.

I'm not going on a petty anti-carlton rant here. I'm looking at it from the perspective of if they were the team I followed. The way I see it is they were all in on Lyon and then sh*t the bed due to people crying "process". You've ended up with a coach who was dreadful at Brisbane, and who failed to get your stellar list to finals last year. If it's the same story this year I'd be absolutely livid.

Saints have been swimming in mediocrity since 2012. This is the first time since then I've actually felt like we were on track. Even at 8-3 last year, I didn't feel like we were playing that well. If our season unravels somewhat from here purely from a win/loss perspective, i've seen enough to know we're heading in the right direction with what Ross has put in place with regards to standards and gameplan.

If Carlton fail to make finals this year, then there should be changes made to Vossys assistant coaches.

I see Carlton as being a team, that should be in contention for one of the lower positions in the top eight this season. I don't think we're a top four quality team just yet imo.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Like all clubs, even ones that have never played finals

Exactly.

The process that clubs go through is a waste of time.

Of course there is always some type of process, but the modern one with rounds of interviews and PowerPoint ******* presentations is just silly.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I don't care if Lyon wakes up every morning and goes on a puppy kicking frenzy. He's a great AFL coach.

As far as how he left us... I don't think the club was blameless, but all that's irrelevant now.

Your list is stacked with A grade talent. It's ludicrous that you're not regularly making finals.

If it happens again this year, the Voss appointment is a failure. No ifs, buts or maybes.

I'm not going on a petty anti-carlton rant here. I'm looking at it from the perspective of if they were the team I followed. The way I see it is they were all in on Lyon and then sh*t the bed due to people crying "process". You've ended up with a coach who was dreadful at Brisbane, and who failed to get your stellar list to finals last year. If it's the same story this year I'd be absolutely livid.

Saints have been swimming in mediocrity since 2012. This is the first time since then I've actually felt like we were on track. Even at 8-3 last year, I didn't feel like we were playing that well. If our season unravels somewhat from here purely from a win/loss perspective, i've seen enough to know we're heading in the right direction with what Ross has put in place with regards to standards and gameplan.

unfair… the Blues have an unbalanced list. In any one game day their bottom 6-8 is worse than North or Hawthorns.

 

[#23 Hill]

Carlton under bus

 

[L_W_P]

We'll see where both Carlton and the Saints are at the end of the year.

My one complaint about Ross Lyon though, is that the style of football his teams play is a bit dour, negative and defensive. His last few years at Fremantle weren't that great either imo.

And yet the Saints are putting up higher scores each week, wthout King & Membrey, than the Blues have been with Curnow & McKay.

Not against you personally but the whole "Ross Lyon teams don't score" line is such BS. Go look at the scores the Saints put up across 08-11. Even in 2010, with Riewoldt out for most of the year, we still had a great offensive set up.

The media latched onto the record setting defence and decided that was Ross' whole mantra and repeated it over and over until it just becmae the accepted 'truth'.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

And yet the Saints are putting up higher scores each week, wthout King & Membrey, than the Blues have been with Curnow & McKay.

Not against you personally but the whole "Ross Lyon teams don't score" line is such BS. Go look at the scores the Saints put up across 08-11. Even in 2010, with Riewoldt out for most of the year, we still had a great offensive set up.

The media latched onto the record setting defence and decided that was Ross' whole mantra and repeated it over and over until it just becmae the accepted 'truth'.

Agree and know you are not having an anti Voss crack.

The best coach could not get the current Blues beyond a mid table side.