High end draft picks=quality players
Is true enough but plenty of exceptions.
RFC find ways to stuff it up.
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List Mgmt. Calling All Armchair List Managers: Give Us Your Rebuild
- Thread starter Darth_Tiger
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Is true enough but plenty of exceptions.
RFC find ways to stuff it up.
- Jan 25, 2018
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I think we need to learn from the mistakes and successes of our recent past.
Strategy #1 - Cut Hard, Finish Low and Play the Kids exclusively
When we decided to go the full rebuild, cutting hard and bringing in 5 players in the Top 20 Picks, we were a debacle. We cut too hard and had no players to shield and guide our young recruits. 4 of the 5 were a bust and so were most of the early picks from the next few drafts. We played Lids in the middle and wondered why he was battered and tagged out of the game.
The strategy was a fail and set us back more than a decade.
Strategy #2 - Build Up a Core
We brought in Cotchin, Jack, Rance, Dusty, Grimes, Astbury and Edwards over a few years. Whether this was through design or accident, I'm unsure but we brought in a Full Forward, Full Back and two gun midfielders. That's the Spine right there. We still had mature leaders to protect and guide these players, but they could learn at VFL Level, then come into the team and develop their craft without being the prime focus and having all the responsibility.
Pathway forward
I think the path is clear. We use our abundance of picks to gain as early picks as we can. We trade out players who are determined to go for quality picks and we use free agency to bring in a quality small forward.
We then use this draft to target a tall forward with our first pick and a quality midfielder with our next. From there, the draft becomes more of a gamble but another midfielder and tall backman would be my next two choices.
We need another core of stars to anchor our team and build around as a foundation. We have a chance to set ourselves up for the future this year with all the picks we have at our use. We won't nail every pick but we need to use this year as Ground Zero and the next few years to layer upon that.
The secret is to not cut too hard during this period. Keep the quality players we already have, to offer leadership and protection for our new recruits.
It won't take us 10 years to rebuild. We have amazing recruiter and player development now. We did not have this in the past. I feel we will rebound quickly.
this, if we cut as hard as some want, we will regret it. Full rebuilds are absolute bullshit and years and years of pain, apart from one exception, history is littered with examples of clubs rebuilding rebuilds over and over again including us
- Apr 13, 2011
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Colina would need a broad type renaissance where he was cooked for half a year and came in and automatically belonged.
That ain't happening.
I think we can pay for some of hopper or Timmy's contracts but we could rebuild in 3 years and they'd still be in their prime.
wegetpumped
Norm Smith Medallist
The current crop of youngsters Meaow
The Current crop of veterans Meaow
Rioli Baker Bolton (when he is on) Great
Defence shambles
Forward line Puke
Recruiting is mediocre at best
If I was a list manager I wouldn't take the job.
This has been coming for a few years and people just held the belief the veterans are still the same age and will get us through.
The list is in trouble and would not be surprised if North goes past us on the ladder.
Sad Gale created an empire and now it will diminish in his presence.
The Current crop of veterans Meaow
Rioli Baker Bolton (when he is on) Great
Defence shambles
Forward line Puke
Recruiting is mediocre at best
If I was a list manager I wouldn't take the job.
This has been coming for a few years and people just held the belief the veterans are still the same age and will get us through.
The list is in trouble and would not be surprised if North goes past us on the ladder.
Sad Gale created an empire and now it will diminish in his presence.
- Feb 14, 2014
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We need to cut deep but not lose culture and leadership. Hawthorn have made a good turnaround but there is going to be problems there when they have to "learn to win". With that is mind, my suggestions. All draft picks are based on Lore's sheet.
Richmond: Bolton + 25 + 44
Fremantle: 14 + 18
Bolton is unwilling to do the hard stuff on the field and we really have no use for a cream player at the moment.
Richmond: 26 + 44 + 62
Carlton: 16
Sure this gives Carlton 200 extra points but I would still prefer a first rounder.
On Lore's draft order we would go to the draft with
6 + 14 + 16 + 18 and this is before we even look at other deals.
I want to keep Baker because A) He is a future captain and B) with the wishful trades above I don't think we would get fair value.
Richmond: Bolton + 25 + 44
Fremantle: 14 + 18
Bolton is unwilling to do the hard stuff on the field and we really have no use for a cream player at the moment.
Richmond: 26 + 44 + 62
Carlton: 16
Sure this gives Carlton 200 extra points but I would still prefer a first rounder.
On Lore's draft order we would go to the draft with
6 + 14 + 16 + 18 and this is before we even look at other deals.
I want to keep Baker because A) He is a future captain and B) with the wishful trades above I don't think we would get fair value.
SADLY to me Dimma, Mini & Yze Team selection has had Broad, Pickett, Dow, Prestia, Grimes, Kmac in the best 22. You can guarantee Graham and Prestia walk back into the 22 when fit.
injury retirement or 2 and RFC don't tend to match offers from other clubs so we will lose players mostly Those playing VFL
prodigy
Taj Hotton Loyalist
- Jun 20, 2013
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The thing that has always been consistent with our team over the past 3-4 years is that we tend to get really hurt by the strong aggressive elite inside mids of the competition. The likes of Neale, Rowell, Butters, Cripps, Green etc always have great games against us.
The reason for that is because since Dusty, we haven't had that dominant ball winning inside midfielder that can really carry a side.
McAuliffe is looking a likely type and Taranto has been decent but his ability to read the fall of the ball at stoppage hasn't been great as he is more reactive than proactive.
If we get a pick in the top 5 this year, in my opinion it's crucial that we target a future monster inside mid with explosive pace as that's something we can build a team around.
Players I'd be letting go of;
KMac (trade/delist)
Pickett (delist/retire)
Baker (trade)
Grimes (retire)
Broad (trade)
Dusty (retire/trade)
Colina (delist)
MSD selection;
Mo Yassine from the VFL
Draft strategy;
As previously stated use our first pick for a genuine elite inside mid.
Use the various picks we currently have and will get from trades to get another couple of picks in the top 1-20.
Trade strategy;
Only target proven elite players. I'd like a Gulden type on a wing. Elite skills, smart footballer.
We need to try and find a 8-10 year key forward.
And then after all that we assess where we are at and then go again.
The reason for that is because since Dusty, we haven't had that dominant ball winning inside midfielder that can really carry a side.
McAuliffe is looking a likely type and Taranto has been decent but his ability to read the fall of the ball at stoppage hasn't been great as he is more reactive than proactive.
If we get a pick in the top 5 this year, in my opinion it's crucial that we target a future monster inside mid with explosive pace as that's something we can build a team around.
Players I'd be letting go of;
KMac (trade/delist)
Pickett (delist/retire)
Baker (trade)
Grimes (retire)
Broad (trade)
Dusty (retire/trade)
Colina (delist)
MSD selection;
Mo Yassine from the VFL
Draft strategy;
As previously stated use our first pick for a genuine elite inside mid.
Use the various picks we currently have and will get from trades to get another couple of picks in the top 1-20.
Trade strategy;
Only target proven elite players. I'd like a Gulden type on a wing. Elite skills, smart footballer.
We need to try and find a 8-10 year key forward.
And then after all that we assess where we are at and then go again.
Rioli and Bolton don't really give the week to week effort since 2022 anymore anyway. Last year it was just Dusty and Baker. Now Dusty seems done and Baker is leaving. You can't guarantee any of our youngsters will make it now with Gibcus done again. The only option is to hit the draft for the next 3-4 years and see where it leaves us.
But if you stay down the bottom long enough it should be hard to stuff up. Because mistakes like Fiora and Tambling etc keep you down the bottom until you eventually get it right. It even worked for Melbourne. You just have to be patient and stay down there for as long it takes and not crack and look for free agents and trades to get you to midtable. Obviously you need a coach that can win it as well, maybe we wont find another one for 30 years, or maybe we hit straight away.
mctiger33
Debutant
- Apr 15, 2023
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Trade Baker for late Freo first, Martin and Graham will leave as free agents.
Retirements for Grimes and Prestia. Trade Broad if he wants to leave.
Delist Pickett, McIntosh, Collina.
Hugo & Cumberland probably stay as cheaper and can’t get rid of too many at once. Will need to keep Miller for depth and definitely keep Ross.
Love Baker but we really got that Taranto/hopper period wrong and now we desperately need to reload in the draft, next 3 years focussing on top 25 picks before Tassie picks dominate the draft. It’s prob 4-5 years minimum before we are near finals again.
Retirements for Grimes and Prestia. Trade Broad if he wants to leave.
Delist Pickett, McIntosh, Collina.
Hugo & Cumberland probably stay as cheaper and can’t get rid of too many at once. Will need to keep Miller for depth and definitely keep Ross.
Love Baker but we really got that Taranto/hopper period wrong and now we desperately need to reload in the draft, next 3 years focussing on top 25 picks before Tassie picks dominate the draft. It’s prob 4-5 years minimum before we are near finals again.
- Oct 25, 2006
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I think we will finish 15th this year
Eagles will finish last
Dockers 10th
Collingwood 14th
Blues 15th
Power 16th
And Lions 13th
So we have picks 4-- 24-- 28- 39- 42--46
60--70-72
Baker and Broad to Dockers for there first pick tied to Collingwood pick 14
Graham free agent to power we get compensation after our second round pick which will be pick 25
Dustin Martin to the sons for there end of round 1 compensation pick ( from roos)
Pick 20,
Miller- Eagles- pick 58
Retire- grimes- Prestia- pickett
Delist- dow- Ralphsmith-- Colina- banks
So now we have picks
4- 14- 20- 24-25-28- 39-42-46-- 58-60-70-72
We bundle picks (24- 25--60)= 1687 points
To lions for there pick 13 = 1212, gives lions a surplus of 475 points
We bundle picks 28- 42-46-58- = 1585 points to blues for pick 15= 1112 points
A surplus of 473 points to blues
We now end up with picks
4-- 13--14--15--20--39--70--72
First 6 picks we use on best kids
70 and 72 on 2 of our best vfl players
May and bravo
Hopefully mid season draft we pick up mutaz el nour
Eagles will finish last
Dockers 10th
Collingwood 14th
Blues 15th
Power 16th
And Lions 13th
So we have picks 4-- 24-- 28- 39- 42--46
60--70-72
Baker and Broad to Dockers for there first pick tied to Collingwood pick 14
Graham free agent to power we get compensation after our second round pick which will be pick 25
Dustin Martin to the sons for there end of round 1 compensation pick ( from roos)
Pick 20,
Miller- Eagles- pick 58
Retire- grimes- Prestia- pickett
Delist- dow- Ralphsmith-- Colina- banks
So now we have picks
4- 14- 20- 24-25-28- 39-42-46-- 58-60-70-72
We bundle picks (24- 25--60)= 1687 points
To lions for there pick 13 = 1212, gives lions a surplus of 475 points
We bundle picks 28- 42-46-58- = 1585 points to blues for pick 15= 1112 points
A surplus of 473 points to blues
We now end up with picks
4-- 13--14--15--20--39--70--72
First 6 picks we use on best kids
70 and 72 on 2 of our best vfl players
May and bravo
Hopefully mid season draft we pick up mutaz el nour
- Aug 24, 2000
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How often has “full rebuild”worked? Can’t remember the last one that turned around in less than 10 years. It’s a crap, crap idea. With no senior players to teach the young draftees and rookies, the only thing they learn how to do is lose.
Yes it’s time to start putting a line through our 30+ year olds, but trading out players like Baker, Bolton, and others in their prime? Hell No!
Put Taranto and Hopper in the guts and then put Dow, Sonsi, Green, McAuliffe, etc around them and get them to learn the same way a young sheep dog learns off an old one.
Yes it’s time to start putting a line through our 30+ year olds, but trading out players like Baker, Bolton, and others in their prime? Hell No!
Put Taranto and Hopper in the guts and then put Dow, Sonsi, Green, McAuliffe, etc around them and get them to learn the same way a young sheep dog learns off an old one.
- Oct 25, 2006
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Treacy contacted till the end of 26
He won't leave Fremantle
No one wants to hear it nor live through it, but effectively what we need to do it tank like no team has tanked before
end of year let go of, or allow to leave - Dusty, Prestia, Grimes, Lynch, Pickett, Graham, Kmac, Baker (if wants out). If you can trade Hopper at a loss, do it and wear it. Get so shit that we effectively look like West Coast. Let the team become so bad that the league is reminded why it was so great when we were good. Take all the draft picks & just make sure you nail them. They will take their boot off our throat when they realise they are choking themselves at the same time.
The game is close to breaking point. The supporters have lost trust beyond repair & the interest in the game is getting less and less. The AFL media is utterly rubbish. It's all going to shit faster than you can say "TikTok" with younger fans not even having a team they support. All the kids i know don't even care about AFL, they prefer to watch youtube videos of kids playing videogames - thats how bleak the AFL's future is. The record attendance for Round 1 was a fairly manufactured result. We should get so bad it hurts, but I can assure you they will ease off once they realise they actually need what Richmond provides.
end of year let go of, or allow to leave - Dusty, Prestia, Grimes, Lynch, Pickett, Graham, Kmac, Baker (if wants out). If you can trade Hopper at a loss, do it and wear it. Get so shit that we effectively look like West Coast. Let the team become so bad that the league is reminded why it was so great when we were good. Take all the draft picks & just make sure you nail them. They will take their boot off our throat when they realise they are choking themselves at the same time.
The game is close to breaking point. The supporters have lost trust beyond repair & the interest in the game is getting less and less. The AFL media is utterly rubbish. It's all going to shit faster than you can say "TikTok" with younger fans not even having a team they support. All the kids i know don't even care about AFL, they prefer to watch youtube videos of kids playing videogames - thats how bleak the AFL's future is. The record attendance for Round 1 was a fairly manufactured result. We should get so bad it hurts, but I can assure you they will ease off once they realise they actually need what Richmond provides.
Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
Contract status means only he has one until that year.Who's paying him doesn't matter.
Vic boy
a beautiful set of numbers.
So the list is being built around Gibcus, Young, Brown, Vlas Short, Rioli down back. pretty solid.
Bolton, Hopper, Taranto Kmac 2, Sonsie in the middle.
Lynch Balta, May and the seven dwarves up fwd.
Draft 2 gun mids and KPF and wingers?
mctiger33
Debutant
- Apr 15, 2023
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Like the theory but we’re not getting an end of first for Dusty or a mid second for Graham. Probably a second and third at best. Graham is on edge of best 22 at a bottom four team. Can’t see Banks getting delisted yet. Agree with the pick bundling strategy, best way to rebuild before Tassie distorts the draft.
- Oct 25, 2006
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Who gave him his only opportunity
Who looked after him while he was struggling with form and injury
Which team between Richmond and Fremantle looks the brighter prospect
Why would you leave Perth to come to Dan and Jacinta's Melbourne
Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
I agree with the last bit.
But why did TT and Hopper come home while Dan was in power?
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
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Free agency is based mostly on age and total contract value. We need to stop dreaming we’d get anything but one of the last 2 x compensation bands for Martin. Nobody is offering more than 2-years, and nobody is offering more than $1.5m total contract. He’s turning 34yo in 2025.
Graham would be offered probably a 4-year deal at $2m total. This will be second last band. I wound the trying hard to convince him to stay, but either way not a big deal.
Based on the paltry return we’d be better off keeping Martin.
I’m going way against the flow of public opinion here, but no reason we can’t bounce back up the ladder pretty quickly.
We just need something resembling a decent run with injury. And half a dozen current youngsters to emerge for remainder of 2024. But if we want a ‘bounce’ we need to get games into the kids ASAP!
The doom and gloom is a media narrative and not what they’d be thinking in house - we would’ve beaten Carlton if not for 2 on the bench from halftime including our 2 x key backs which forced Balta back.
Then we were very competitive against Port on the back of 6 x injury forced changes… and an umpire rogering.
We’ve played 32 players in 3 games. That’s a seasons worth for many clubs.
Move on the older guys who are no longer helping us. Move on any trade value who is no longer helping us (eg Graham). Keep everyone else who helps us win no matter the age.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Graham would be offered probably a 4-year deal at $2m total. This will be second last band. I wound the trying hard to convince him to stay, but either way not a big deal.
Based on the paltry return we’d be better off keeping Martin.
I’m going way against the flow of public opinion here, but no reason we can’t bounce back up the ladder pretty quickly.
We just need something resembling a decent run with injury. And half a dozen current youngsters to emerge for remainder of 2024. But if we want a ‘bounce’ we need to get games into the kids ASAP!
The doom and gloom is a media narrative and not what they’d be thinking in house - we would’ve beaten Carlton if not for 2 on the bench from halftime including our 2 x key backs which forced Balta back.
Then we were very competitive against Port on the back of 6 x injury forced changes… and an umpire rogering.
We’ve played 32 players in 3 games. That’s a seasons worth for many clubs.
Move on the older guys who are no longer helping us. Move on any trade value who is no longer helping us (eg Graham). Keep everyone else who helps us win no matter the age.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
- Oct 25, 2006
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Dimma and cambo, will look after us from the sons with dusty, plus I doubt dusty would leave unless we got some kind of compensation,,,,,the afl mystery that is FA compensation picks could mean anything
Me think that will be after our second round pick to make up for Brandon ellis
- Oct 25, 2006
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TT came home pretty sure Hopper went because his best mate was going and because they both wanted long term security with 7 year deals
Plus they had several years of playing in front on nobody,,they were desperate to play in front of big crowds
Treacy has none of these issues
- Oct 25, 2006
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Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
50k isn't a big crowd
- Oct 25, 2006
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It is when it's all your supporters
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