Current Brian Thompson United Healthcare CEO Ambushed & Killed - Manhattan US * Penn graduate Luigi Mangione arrested

[Osho]

United HealthCare apparent talking points.

UnitedHealthcare's Leaked Talking Points

UHC tells employee to dispute social media criticism, praise slain CEO

www.kenklippenstein.com

 

[Osho]

aged care facilities is entirely valid as people go there to, ultimately, die.

At what age or moment do you recommend people should stop living to focus on dying? Is it at the moment they step into the care facility and we just let them go? Or is it from day 1 when, you know, we are all destined to die?

 

[jason_recliner]

At what age or moment do you recommend people should stop living to focus on dying? Is it at the moment they step into the care facility and we just let them go? Or is it from day 1 when, you know, we are all destined to die?

I don't know. Is an objective of an aged care facility to prolong the life of residents to the extent practicable?

 

[faible]

I don't know. Is an objective of an aged care facility to prolong the life of residents to the extent practicable?

That is their objective, especially in the not-for-profit part of the sector.

It's also a relatively under-funded and under-governed area as there hasn't previously been a large part of the population transitioning through. Same as we've seen a much larger focus on retirement / lifestyle villages in recent years as that critical boomer generation reaches that point of their lives.

 

[jason_recliner]

That is their objective, especially in the not-for-profit part of the sector.

It's also a relatively under-funded and under-governed area as there hasn't previously been a large part of the population transitioning through. Same as we've seen a much larger focus on retirement / lifestyle villages in recent years as that critical boomer generation reaches that point of their lives.

Is that a desirable objective? We can extend life for years and years but is that really want we want to be doing?

 

[faible]

Is that a desirable objective? We can extend life for years and years but is that really want we want to be doing?

Provide a level of support and quality of life to people that require it?

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. There's plenty of 'healthy' people in aged care that aren't able to live at home safely without support, but that otherwise have a number of years left to live.

People are living longer, so they're reaching a point where their bodies simply can't do things due to age but they're otherwise in no imminent danger of dying.

Not all aged care is palliative care.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

There is the idea the violence begets violence. In a way, violence is every day life. Violence is systemic. Denying people healthcare for unjust reasons is a slow, systemic, violence on peoples lives. It results in suffering and death.

Money over peoples lives. It is the same in Australia to a degree. I have had a family member pass away in an aged facility due to negligence. Why did this happen? Well, what is the number one goal of an Aged care facility? To make money. If someone dies in there, does it close down? No. IF it stops turning a profit does it close down? Yes.

This, the prioritiastion of money, the endless pursuit of money, over peoples lives, to me is a form of slow violence. I'm not advocating that what Luigi Mangilione did was right. But the world is sick.

Yes, that is the flaw in health care systems, especially the US where it is largely privatized. Private companies are there to generate profits for their investors. Without profits the companies dont exist, and the care is not provided at all.

These private companies can operate effectively if there is heavy regulation and governance which there clearly is not in the USA, and by the sounds of it unfortunately also in your family members case.

 

[jason_recliner]

Provide a level of support and quality of life to people that require it?

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. There's plenty of 'healthy' people in aged care that aren't able to live at home safely without support, but that otherwise have a number of years left to live.

People are living longer, so they're reaching a point where their bodies simply can't do things due to age but they're otherwise in no imminent danger of dying.

Not all aged care is palliative care.

I'm not arguing anything (for once!). I'm asking what do we want our aged care facilities to work towards? Is it looking after our parents until their quality of life declines? Or is it maintaining them until they cannot stay alive? How do we want to pay for their services? I knew a guy when we were in our early 20s who worked at a facility. He was the lowest paid amongst us. Should we be retaking some or all of that responsibility (to look after our parents)?

My initial point was I don't think health care can be viewed through the same prism as aged care.

 

[faible]

I'm not arguing anything (for once!). I'm asking what do we want our aged care facilities to work towards? Is it looking after our parents until their quality of life declines? Or is it maintaining them until they cannot stay alive? How do we want to pay for their services? I knew a guy when we were in our early 20s who worked at a facility. He was the lowest paid amongst us. Should we be retaking some or all of that responsibility (to look after our parents)?

My initial point was I don't think health care can be viewed through the same prism as aged care.

Having been through the process, many older people reach a point where family simply can't take on that responsibility, as it's beyond their skills and physical abilities.

For past generations it was mostly ok, as not all that many lived that long.

For many of our grandparents, their parents (probably born closer to 1900s) were looking at an average 68 - 70 year life expectancy, probably never really reaching that 'quite old but still healthy' stage of life, so they could stay at home.

Now we're seeing that average out to around 84, with plenty getting in to their 90s where more specialised care is needed to maintain quality of life. So the aged care system really needs to be made fit for purpose rather than just a dumping ground for older people.

Obviously, that's rather different to someone who's effectively on the verge of palliative care where they're not necessarily experiencing a good quality of life and it's just prolonging life.

 

[faible]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/10/luigi-mangione-unitedhealthcare-ceo-murder-manifesto-parasites.html

CNBC fairly extensively quoting from the manifesto published online for those who haven't already seen it, or saw the fake one floating around.

NYT and others have mentioned / quoted similar things from the manifesto found in his possession, plus the notebook the manifesto mentions also found in his possession.

Pretty hard to argue he didn't intend to do it, or that it's not the right guy.

 

[Osho]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/10/luigi-mangione-unitedhealthcare-ceo-murder-manifesto-parasites.html

CNBC fairly extensively quoting from the manifesto published online for those who haven't already seen it, or saw the fake one floating around.

NYT and others have mentioned / quoted similar things from the manifesto found in his possession, plus the notebook the manifesto mentions also found in his possession.

Pretty hard to argue he didn't intend to do it, or that it's not the right guy.

He says “These parasites had it coming,” plural, I wonder if there were other targets.

Apparently Brian's properties underwent a swat check (for bombs possibly) at 8pm on the day of the murder.

 

[jason_recliner]

Having been through the process, many older people reach a point where family simply can't take on that responsibility, as it's beyond their skills and physical abilities.

For past generations it was mostly ok, as not all that many lived that long.

For many of our grandparents, their parents (probably born closer to 1900s) were looking at an average 68 - 70 year life expectancy, probably never really reaching that 'quite old but still healthy' stage of life, so they could stay at home.

Now we're seeing that average out to around 84, with plenty getting in to their 90s where more specialised care is needed to maintain quality of life. So the aged care system really needs to be made fit for purpose rather than just a dumping ground for older people.

Obviously, that's rather different to someone who's effectively on the verge of palliative care where they're not necessarily experiencing a good quality of life and it's just prolonging life.

Yep. What about answers to the questions I posed? (accepting that they aren't easy questions)

 

[faible]

He says “These parasites had it coming,” plural, I wonder if there were other targets.

Apparently Brian's properties underwent a swat check (for bombs possibly) at 8pm on the day of the murder.

I think his anger was directed at the healthcare insurance industry in general, I assume he is calling all of the companies parasites.

 

[faible]

Yep. What about answers to the questions I posed? (accepting that they aren't easy questions)

I'm unclear what question(s) you're asking me?

 

[Munich]

You do know a 'life' sentence isn't actually for the entirety of ones life right?

In Victoria it's a minimum 30 year non-parole period, whilst SA / QLD / NT it's 20 years.

From memory you're in France, where 'life' is a minimum 18-22 years before eligible for parole.

It's different in the US depending on state as well.

In Florida for example life means (natural) life.

 

[jason_recliner]

I'm unclear what question(s) you're asking me?

I'm asking what do we want our aged care facilities to work towards? Is it looking after our parents until their quality of life declines? Or is it maintaining them until they cannot stay alive? How do we want to pay for their services?

 

[faible]

I'm asking what do we want our aged care facilities to work towards? Is it looking after our parents until their quality of life declines? Or is it maintaining them until they cannot stay alive? How do we want to pay for their services?

Facilities already offer an array of levels of care.

Plenty go in with lower care needs, because they're 'fine' but older and less capable. Maybe they can't keep up with all the household tasks and are a fall risk, type thing. They're beyond what at home care might be able to provide, or what family can, but still otherwise healthy with plenty of years to live with support.

There's others with higher needs; dementia for example. Where perhaps they've got a few years of life left but the level of care required is beyond what family are capable of providing. You can't just leave them at home to die after all.

It's not a one-size fits all approach.

I think the current system is 'ok' in the approach it has, albeit needing work. The Government provides some level of contribution and standards, those with more financial assets can contribute more. (assuming we don't otherwise reform out tax system and such in other major ways)

It's very much beyond the scope of this topic however, and a much larger discussion.

 

[Munich]

Is this a crime thread or aged care...?

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Is this a crime thread or aged care...?

Apologies people, I think I derailed the thread. My simple point was that healthcare, aged care, systems that your basically entrusting someones life into, shouldn't be profit based.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I'm asking what do we want our aged care facilities to work towards? Is it looking after our parents until their quality of life declines? Or is it maintaining them until they cannot stay alive? How do we want to pay for their services?

Many facilities cater to both and seperate residents accordingly.
The facility my Wife worked in had deifferent wings for residents at different stages of decline.
Some lived there happily for years with minimal assistance, some where on short term palliative care and everything in between.
Even dietary needs were varied and became very difficult to cater to.

 

[nut]

$50 for an Asthma inhaler …. USA USA USA

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Apologies people, I think I derailed the thread. My simple point was that healthcare, aged care, systems that your basically entrusting someones life into, shouldn't be profit based.

Lets break it down shall we?

I agree in principle in a perfect world but how do you propose it is funded than, if profit is entirely removed from the system?

It's easy to say it shouldn't be profit based. But where does the money come from if not from private? Are you OK with much higher taxes to fund it all? Australia is one of the highest taxed countries in the world and even with free health care (Medicare) we still need private companies involved in our healthcare system for it to function.

There is an economic reality involved in this; free healthcare doesn't just grow on trees. it needs to be paid for somehow, and if you want corporate profit removed, that's fair enough, but you might not like your next tax return if that was a reality..........

 

[jason_recliner]

Lets break it down shall we?

I agree in principle in a perfect world but how do you propose it is funded than, if profit is entirely removed from the system?

It's easy to say it shouldn't be profit based. But where does the money come from if not from private? Are you OK with much higher taxes to fund it all? Australia is one of the highest taxed countries in the world and even with free health care (Medicare) we still need private companies involved in our healthcare system for it to function.

There is an economic reality involved in this; free healthcare doesn't just grow on trees. it needs to be paid for somehow, and if you want corporate profit removed, that's fair enough, but you might not like your next tax return if that was a reality..........

There is also heaps of corporate welfare, some of which could be redirected to pay for healthcare and/or aged care. One thing Australia is not short of is money - taxes don't necessarily need to increase if the government chooses to spend more money elsewhere.

 

[nut]

Lets break it down shall we?

I agree in principle in a perfect world but how do you propose it is funded than, if profit is entirely removed from the system?

It's easy to say it shouldn't be profit based. But where does the money come from if not from private? Are you OK with much higher taxes to fund it all? Australia is one of the highest taxed countries in the world and even with free health care (Medicare) we still need private companies involved in our healthcare system for it to function.

There is an economic reality involved in this; free healthcare doesn't just grow on trees. it needs to be paid for somehow, and if you want corporate profit removed, that's fair enough, but you might not like your next tax return if that was a reality..........

How about not giving our gas reserves away for free? And letting corporations exploit us.
Seems to work in countries like Norway … 76% tax on resources.

 

[jason_recliner]

How about not giving our gas reserves away for free? And letting corporations exploit us.
Seems to work in countries like Norway … 76% tax on resources.

That would be a start except when Rudd (G.O.A.T) floated the idea the corporate-shill MSM got him kicked out. Doesn't mean somebody shouldn't be brave enough to try again. But it won't be the current Dumb and Dumber.