Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[jj1978]

A fresh coach starting the season could be that dead cat bounce early on we need to build momentum! No point getting wins after 1-11 starts... I believe we've lost many seasons in recent 10 years by starting poorly with 0-2, 0-3 starts and mental demons kick in as more losses compound to the Bye.

 

[Zlatan]

One thing that's been bugging me about the Clarko issue.....is he going to help us win against GWS, West Coast, Lions, Bulldogs and Richmond? These aren't the only 5 teams we have to get through next year, (probably only have to play them once in 2022), as every club poses its challenges with our erratic consistency. But these 5 continue to be a stumbling block for both us AND Clarko. Yes, Clarko has the coaching record we all envy, yet he is still coaching against 5 of his ex-assistants. And against these fellas, he does seem to struggle.....i.e. a losing record.

AFL Tables - Alastair Clarkson - Coaching Record

afltables.com

That's close to a third of the comp who have all moved beyond Clarko's dominance of the premiership years. Yes, Teague's record probably is worse but I feel Clarkson may not be the MESSIAH that the board are crying out for. Still want Teague to get the coaching support he needs around him.

The MESSIAH syndrome has burnt too many CFC supporters as a quick fix for our premiership drought

Saying Teague should get the support around him is one thing, but is it that easy? Are the correct people even available? Do they want to be at Carlton? Does anyone feel an apprenticeship under Teague is worth anything to move teams for? Are the ones we currently have any good?

Just some things to consider.

 

[Arr0w]

Not sure why people think SPS will be going back to WA, if he wants out

 

[reg_lower91]

Not sure why people think SPS will be going back to WA, if he wants out

He was a WA supporter before we drafted him.

 

[Arr0w]

He was a WA supporter before we drafted him.

A WA supporter?

It's been stated he is happy in VIC, what makes you think he will go back to WA, the trade scenarios that suits us?

 

[Arr0w]

Walsh is the cream of the crop...
Kelly's stats are all mostly, above average or elite... He's a very good player..

Walsh is the $800k-$1m player...
Kelly is well over paid, I'd value him at $700k-$800k tops...

But we are not immune to overpaying our players either...

So the point stands yeah, Kelly isn't the finisher many believe

 

[Red_man2008]

very confident we get cerra now. Clearly wants to come home and it looks to be now that we are the only ones in the running from vic with Richmond out.

Add Cerra and crouch

 

[james Dean]

A WA supporter?

It's been stated he is happy in VIC, what makes you think he will go back to WA, the trade scenarios that suits us?

Big fan of McGowan maybe.

 

[La Dispute]

Carlton haven’t had a star Italian player since Fevola.

You know it just feels right.

 

[Kramer1]

Carlton haven’t had a star Italian player since Fevola.

You know just feels right.

Boy are you going to be embarrassed when you realise you forgot about Josh Deluca.

 

[BluesTragic]

very confident we get cerra now. Clearly wants to come home and it looks to be now that we are the only ones in the running from vic with Richmond out.

Perhaps Richmond and Essendon are not prepared to pay the asking price in trade value….Carlton are happy to trade top 10 draft picks willy nilly !!!


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[Blue__Balls]

Some great points BB but when comparing disposals I will say most of SPS disposals are 15 metre sidewards kicks

Certainly seemed to become more so when he was moved down back. I suspect it was coached. Retain possession, try and move towards the corridor. He looked to be playing with a bit more dare when we brought him back as a mid/fwd.

Put it this way. Cerra is one of their best mids. SPS is struggling to get a game. It's quite glaring when you consider our midfield...

Clubs are highly unlikely to let go of one of their better players for a guy who hasn't cemented a spot and a second rounder.

Being a sides second or third best mid (and even that is debateable - Fyfe, Brayshaw, Mundy, Serong) doesn't equate to being worth shitloads at the trade table. Kennedy or Curnow would be our third best mid, and neither is worth a first rounder.

Still, offer Freo a first rounder. This year or next. They come back and ask for SPS as well. We tell them their choice is a first, or SPS and a second. That's fair - they can decide if they want a premium pick or a lesser pick and a potentially like-for-like player. If we'd played SPS in the middle the last few years it'd probably be a straight swap. But if we'd done that we may not even see a need for Cerra...

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Carlton haven’t had a star Italian player since Fevola.

You know just feels right.

Ba haha. Silvagni anyone?

 

[KnobHead]

Put it this way. Cerra is one of their best mids. SPS is struggling to get a game. It's quite glaring when you consider our midfield...

Clubs are highly unlikely to let go of one of their better players for a guy who hasn't cemented a spot and a second rounder.

100% agree.

Freo won’t be going “yes, people have overplayed Cerra’s value, and also the blues haven’t been using SPS well and he’s in the reserves, but he’s clearly worth more than that so we’ll pay the higher value.”

They’ll go “blues, you’re offering us a fringe player for a player that’s 21 and in our top 3 mids.” Which is exactly correct.



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[AndyWalkersGirl]

Ba haha. Silvagni anyone?

Ooopsies, realised you said “star”... I think JSOS is a star in my eyes anyway

 

[ferrisb]

Ba haha. Silvagni anyone?

I almost forgot about future premiership ruck-fwd Jack Silvagni....

 

[Just Kreuzing]

He was a WA supporter before we drafted him.

Was seen in the change rooms with Nic Nat once.....

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Being a sides second or third best mid (and even that is debateable - Fyfe, Brayshaw, Mundy, Serong) doesn't equate to being worth shitloads at the trade table. Kennedy or Curnow would be our third best mid, and neither is worth a first rounder.

Still, offer Freo a first rounder. This year or next. They come back and ask for SPS as well. We tell them their choice is a first, or SPS and a second. That's fair - they can decide if they want a premium pick or a lesser pick and a potentially like-for-like player. If we'd played SPS in the middle the last few years it'd probably be a straight swap. But if we'd done that we may not even see a need for Cerra...

Mundy and Fyfe won't be there much longer. This inherently increases Cerra's value to them.

The reason we don't play SPS in the middle is because he hasn't got the tank to do so on a consistent basis. That's on him. Not to mention how conditional his intent is when he plays. His upside is he's still very young and the talent is there. But 5 years in and having still not cemented a spot in our best 22 no doubt decreases his value considerably.

 

[Pixelshooter]

SPS is a real head scratcher. You'd think he has all the skills we desperately need. But something's just not clicking. I think he'd be one guy that would benefit big time with different coaching and a clear path...whether that's with us or someone else. I still think he had plenty of upside.

 

[Hands On]

Can't understand anyone saying Clarkson has underachieved recently. I reckon the opposite. If you take a closer look at a few of their wins this year, much of the credit has to go to coaching and tactics and a clear gameplan for the opposition they're up against.

I challenge anyone to nominate a win of ours any time recently that could be put down to us out-coaching the opposition.

Hawks and c
Clarko's performance is a result of the difficult decision they had to make, Start rebuild or add a few bit players and see if they can snaffle another flag whils still having a reasonable list. the risk was high but is a risk they took knowing well they would be in the position they are in if it failed. At least they took a gamble.

If you look at their younger brigade and their development they wont be down for long unless Sam Mitchel is an imbecile.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Certainly seemed to become more so when he was moved down back. I suspect it was coached. Retain possession, try and move towards the corridor. He looked to be playing with a bit more dare when we brought him back as a mid/fwd.



Being a sides second or third best mid (and even that is debateable - Fyfe, Brayshaw, Mundy, Serong) doesn't equate to being worth shitloads at the trade table. Kennedy or Curnow would be our third best mid, and neither is worth a first rounder.

Still, offer Freo a first rounder. This year or next. They come back and ask for SPS as well. We tell them their choice is a first, or SPS and a second. That's fair - they can decide if they want a premium pick or a lesser pick and a potentially like-for-like player. If we'd played SPS in the middle the last few years it'd probably be a straight swap. But if we'd done that we may not even see a need for Cerra...

They would just say right let’s do seperate trades for both. We will take your first rounder for Cerra and here’s a fifth rounder for SPS

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

My family is Italian. It kills me living 3 hours from there.

Obviously you guys aren’t real Italians otherwise you wouldn’t be talking to the majority of your family over something that happened 40 years ago

 

[Hands On]

A WA supporter?

It's been stated he is happy in VIC, what makes you think he will go back to WA, the trade scenarios that suits us?

He wont go back. Norf will offer him 1.2 mil

 

[Schoonerman]

Many Thanks Gab

 

[Gethelred]

Yeap, this year Kelly has kicked more goals per game on average, but perhaps drill down further

This year Walsh has Kelly covered in averages for combined goals and goal assists 1.4 to 1, score involvements 6.7 to 6, goal accuracy 75% to 57%, DE 75% to 70%

So, Kelly isn't the finisher people bang on about

Prior to this year, where he has still missed games, the 3 previous years he has averaged 16 games a year, while Walsh has averaged more

Given the above, if Kelly is worth 800K - 1MIL a year for 8 years, what would Walsh be worth?

... and Sam Walsh is a brownlow contender, and is sitting well inside the best players I've ever seen.

Josh Kelly is a very good to great midfielder. Failing to meet all time greatness is not a slight, or at least it shouldn't be.