Bendigo FL discussion 2024

[Forest St End]

lets talk footy not this crap

You can post anything you like Ron and if someone is interested they will talk about it with you. That’s pretty much how a forum works.

 

[saintron]

i know but must be other footy news

 

[knowsnothing]

Ok, let's see what you make of this data then.

I'll compare Strathfieldsaye and Maryborough.

Data taken from 2021 census.

Population: 6850 (S), 8160 (M).

Median Age: 36, 51

Families 1960, 2140

Children per household: 1.1, .5

Median weekly household income: $2237, $876

Population per age bracket

0-4: 481, 348

5-9: 606, 403

10-14: 622, 461

15-19: 499, 416

20-24: 321, 360

25-29: 340, 412

So currently, with kids aged 10 - 19, Strath have 1121 in their catchment, Maryborough has 877. That's an almost 25% difference!

By the time the next group come through it's 1087 vs 751, it's over 30%.

The extensive data from the Australian Sports Commission shows two key factors in participation are venue accessibility and peer interaction. No rocket science there, kids go to places near where they live and where their mates are from their area. So without even doing anything Strath are likely to have 30% more juniors than Maryborough. That's playing a game with 13 in a side vs 18. That's a 30% better spread of fund-raising, volunteers, etc etc...I wonder which of those is going to create a more 'positive environment' another key factor in participation rates.
But that's not all. The data also shows key factors in participation are parental and family support and a key barrier to participation is expense.
The average Strath family has nearly three times the income, lower divorce rates, higher education levels (another key factor), and essentially better results in every socio economic factor you can name.

So that 30% gap isn't 30% at all. Strath is in a position of optimal participation and will have higher than average levels, while Maryborough will have lower than average. So that gap is likely more like 35-40% in reality, now we are playing with 10 or 11 vs 18.

And bear in mind this is all before the clubs have even lifted a finger. Just the inherent advantages and disadvantages of where they are located. And before we have mentioned the other clubs in the same catchment.

If you read all that and still think that on top of those massive advantages the competition should put a cherry on top by saying that not only do you have massive advantage in junior numbers we are also going to make them 1 point each just to really hammer it home, then I suggest you apply for a job with AFL Victoria.

This is the stuff AFL Victoria should be doing as their bread and butter and using to drive the direction of the game. There is no way some clubs can ever compete with others over the long term, unless they have the resources (money) to counter the disadvantages by paying players to come as seniors.

So as I keep saying ad nauseam you either have to restructure the entire competitions and start again with 'like teams' or you have to introduce equalisation measures that don't just solidify the good teams advantages as is the case now.

I make nothing of the data as I said they tell your story you want to see, Does not correlate to anything material.
The information tells me about the suburbs but not the clubs.

strath also has to compete with 4 other major league clubs for those kids like MB with district, they don’t all go to Strath. Doesn't talk about culture which is core, not saying Strath has an amazing culture or MB has poor one but what's it like? Would we be talking about Strath if they weren't going ok in the same light?

The reality is like Castlemaine they’ve had some poor coaches and struggled to come back from it, nothing to do with the population

Eaglehawk, south, and Sandhurst have all had years they’d want to forget however bounce back.

It’s pretty easy to blame this and that however if you look at their junior programs there’s no pull to the clubs.
There are no gun coaches.

AFL Vic is not going to tell a club can you please stop being hard to play against? Players will leave in their droves why play in a mediocre league? For bugger all to get cash or better games 1.5 hours down the road.

Speaking to someone from a strong club they are struggling with players wanting to come to the club from other junior clubs this includes players from your squares, Sandhurst and Strath’s (obviously it’s one of these that’s the club)

You’re one poor junior coach away from losing a whole age group and your future because you forgot to invest in them more.

I love stats however finding out where all these kids go and why that’ll be more beneficial than the clubs can work out how to stop the bleed.

 

[Del28562]

When was the last poor castlemaine coaching appointment?


Where did henderson and ginnivan go and play? Why werent they 10 point players, going from a bottom club to a top club?

You can't have bendigo clubs use the pios and school systems to access the best players from the weaker clubs

 

[GrassKat]

Ok, let's see what you make of this data then.

I'll compare Strathfieldsaye and Maryborough.

Data taken from 2021 census.

Population: 6850 (S), 8160 (M).

Median Age: 36, 51

Families 1960, 2140

Children per household: 1.1, .5

Median weekly household income: $2237, $876

Population per age bracket

0-4: 481, 348

5-9: 606, 403

10-14: 622, 461

15-19: 499, 416

20-24: 321, 360

25-29: 340, 412

So currently, with kids aged 10 - 19, Strath have 1121 in their catchment, Maryborough has 877. That's an almost 25% difference!

By the time the next group come through it's 1087 vs 751, it's over 30%.

The extensive data from the Australian Sports Commission shows two key factors in participation are venue accessibility and peer interaction. No rocket science there, kids go to places near where they live and where their mates are from their area. So without even doing anything Strath are likely to have 30% more juniors than Maryborough. That's playing a game with 13 in a side vs 18. That's a 30% better spread of fund-raising, volunteers, etc etc...I wonder which of those is going to create a more 'positive environment' another key factor in participation rates.
But that's not all. The data also shows key factors in participation are parental and family support and a key barrier to participation is expense.
The average Strath family has nearly three times the income, lower divorce rates, higher education levels (another key factor), and essentially better results in every socio economic factor you can name.

So that 30% gap isn't 30% at all. Strath is in a position of optimal participation and will have higher than average levels, while Maryborough will have lower than average. So that gap is likely more like 35-40% in reality, now we are playing with 10 or 11 vs 18.

And bear in mind this is all before the clubs have even lifted a finger. Just the inherent advantages and disadvantages of where they are located. And before we have mentioned the other clubs in the same catchment.

If you read all that and still think that on top of those massive advantages the competition should put a cherry on top by saying that not only do you have massive advantage in junior numbers we are also going to make them 1 point each just to really hammer it home, then I suggest you apply for a job with AFL Victoria.

This is the stuff AFL Victoria should be doing as their bread and butter and using to drive the direction of the game. There is no way some clubs can ever compete with others over the long term, unless they have the resources (money) to counter the disadvantages by paying players to come as seniors.

So as I keep saying ad nauseam you either have to restructure the entire competitions and start again with 'like teams' or you have to introduce equalisation measures that don't just solidify the good teams advantages as is the case now.

A very good post with lots of factors to consider.

With that in mind, are Maryborough and Castlemaine, even with points concessions, ever going to ever return to a level required to compete?

 

[AlburyE]

Ok, let's see what you make of this data then.

A very good post with lots of factors to consider.

With that in mind, are Maryborough and Castlemaine, even with points concessions, ever going to ever return to a level required to compete?

Hence to create even competitions in and outside the BFNL the only realistic solutions are mergers or layers of competitions in a promotion/relegation setup where teams can find their own level. Perhaps both.

 

[knowsnothing]

Ok, let's see what you make of this data then.

I make nothing of the data as I said they tell your story you want to see, Does not correlate to anything material.
The information tells me about the suburbs but not the clubs.

strath also has to compete with 4 other major league clubs for those kids like MB with district, they don’t all go to Strath. Doesn't talk about culture which is core, not saying Strath has an amazing culture or MB has poor one but what's it like? Would we be talking about Strath if they weren't going ok in the same light?

The reality is like Castlemaine they’ve had some poor coaches and struggled to come back from it, nothing to do with the population

Eaglehawk, south, and Sandhurst have all had years they’d want to forget however bounce back.

It’s pretty easy to blame this and that however if you look at their junior programs there’s no pull to the clubs.
There are no gun coaches.

AFL Vic is not going to tell a club can you please stop being hard to play against? Players will leave in their droves why play in a mediocre league? For bugger all to get cash or better games 1.5 hours down the road.

Speaking to someone from a strong club they are struggling with players wanting to come to the club from other junior clubs this includes players from your squares, Sandhurst and Strath’s (obviously it’s one of these that’s the club)

You’re one poor junior coach away from losing a whole age group and your future because you forgot to invest in them more.

I love stats however finding out where all these kids go and why that’ll be more beneficial than the clubs can work out how to stop the blee

Besides Hartley who's been the last good coach

I don't disagree with relegations.
But also I don't think it's Bendigo clubs vs country clubs and AFL Vic has us vs them, that is not the way it runs not sure Gisborne will think this. I'm sure flat and to a lesser extent South would feel the same as the country clubs.

Leaving to another club they carry a higher point allocation.
Would you rather see them at another league.

Think it could be argued any way but the kid from square is a good player but he would have improved significantly more at square this year vs a year at Castlemaine. It's a win/win got flag better player and returns to Castlemaine a leader.

Can argue population or points all we like however as whole the competition needs to improve not just clubs.

VAFA Will smoke BFL are they from ABC or div 1, 2 or 3.

 

[ringo1]

Ok, let's see what you make of this data then.

I make nothing of the data as I said they tell your story you want to see, Does not correlate to anything material.
The information tells me about the suburbs but not the clubs.

strath also has to compete with 4 other major league clubs for those kids like MB with district, they don’t all go to Strath. Doesn't talk about culture which is core, not saying Strath has an amazing culture or MB has poor one but what's it like? Would we be talking about Strath if they weren't going ok in the same light?

The reality is like Castlemaine they’ve had some poor coaches and struggled to come back from it, nothing to do with the population

Eaglehawk, south, and Sandhurst have all had years they’d want to forget however bounce back.

It’s pretty easy to blame this and that however if you look at their junior programs there’s no pull to the clubs.
There are no gun coaches.

AFL Vic is not going to tell a club can you please stop being hard to play against? Players will leave in their droves why play in a mediocre league? For bugger all to get cash or better games 1.5 hours down the road.

Speaking to someone from a strong club they are struggling with players wanting to come to the club from other junior clubs this includes players from your squares, Sandhurst and Strath’s (obviously it’s one of these that’s the club)

You’re one poor junior coach away from losing a whole age group and your future because you forgot to invest in them more.

I love stats however finding out where all these kids go and why that’ll be more beneficial than the clubs can work out how to stop the bleed.

My bugbear is that we make it difficult for coaches to get better qualified. Why have a system where anyone can do the fingerpaints for their level one and then find it increasingly difficult to do a Level 2 and almost impossible to do a Level 3? The Level 4 ..well forget about it. The sooner these are opened up for every coach the better.

 

[Crazymaggy2020]

Ok, let's see what you make of this data then.

A very good post with lots of factors to consider.

With that in mind, are Maryborough and Castlemaine, even with points concessions, ever going to ever return to a level required to compete?

Not without spending double the cap - too far back and players won’t sacrifice winning. A $200 player at sandhurst / square could demand $1300 at MB or Maine and get it - it’s that simple


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[Del28562]

Marlborough's better juniors leave, bond played geelong vfl, but now is playing for redan, Crameri is playing in Ballarat, richards at Eaglehawk. I'm sure there are others too. Castlemaine would be similar.



There's now the Kevin durrant mentality of going to a finals club to win, instead of taking on the challenge to lift a side to finals, the points system has created two tiered comps, finals teams stay finals teams, bottom clubs remain irrelevant and can't play finals a year later.

The points system needs to be tweaked more now.

I was just watching welcome to wrexham, with my sons, and how the fa cup allows any team to enter, why doesn't the afl do a pre season comp in each state, like this where you have afl clubs and the premiers of each league play each other in a knock-out final, with prize money

 

[Vlodrive]

Maryborough just need to forget it or teams need to refuse to play against them. Absolutely no benefit to playing a side full of 18/19 year olds and a small handful of slightly older boys and pulling their pants down. These boys will be mentally stuffed soon and literally will not know how to win. Seen it before at other clubs and it'll happen again. But I'm sure old mate from Maryborough that's on this forum will ensure everything is completely fine. Enjoy the hammerings.

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[Bush Fly]

Not without spending double the cap - too far back and players won’t sacrifice winning. A $200 player at sandhurst / square could demand $1300 at MB or Maine and get it - it’s that simple


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Maybe 700 or 800 their value might jump too I'd be surprised if Maryborough would pay -1300 to many if any or surely they would have a stronger list.

 

[olly21]

Some great discussion on this thread at the moment. Hats off forest and great research. There are a lot of negatives on here atm which is fine and most of it is correct. But I think some of us should also concentrate that clubs like marybourgh and Castlemaine keep fronting up after coping years of beltings. The people who have supported these clubs, taken on leadership positions and played there thru the hard times need to be congratulated. Players only have a short career and for some of the blokes who keep fronting up getting beaten by a lot and still continue to play for their town year after year has to be commended. It’s easy heading off to a district club we’re it’s not as professional and easier to get a kick and less stress with admin. Marybourgh look like they have a great group of kids who say this is our club and we will create our own destiny on a slow build is fantastic to see. Castlemaine had a fantastic year from where they looked like last pre season and their coach of last year Shepard must be congratulated for doing a great job. I see slow improvement but the wheel is turning for the better for both these clubs. It’s time for the locals and casual observers to really get behind them. Sometimes the hard work doesn’t come to fruition for a while but don’t underestimate the work some of the people are doing at these clubs to become a better force for the whole club in the future/

 

[Forest St End]

I make nothing of the data as I said they tell your story you want to see, Does not correlate to anything material.
The information tells me about the suburbs but not the clubs.

I can’t believe you could look at that and not see there are inherent issues impacting the capacity for clubs to be competitive with other clubs.

Maryborough is starting on one leg vs Strath before either club does anything.

When was the last poor castlemaine coaching appointment?


Where did henderson and ginnivan go and play? Why werent they 10 point players, going from a bottom club to a top club?

You can't have bendigo clubs use the pios and school systems to access the best players from the weaker clubs

Ginnivan is a classic example. He left because Castlemaine didn’t have the kids to form a team in the top division of the junior comp and the Pioneers honey trap pushed him to be in it.

I didn’t use Castlemaine in the census data because I didn’t want it to be obscured by team support but Castlemaine’s numbers are actually much lower than Maryborough.

If they had 40% more kids would they have had a first division? Probably.

Ok, let's see what you make of this data then.

A very good post with lots of factors to consider.

With that in mind, are Maryborough and Castlemaine, even with points concessions, ever going to ever return to a level required to compete?

In my opinion unless there is a major restructuring of the points system to equalise things, no chance.

Maybe 700 or 800 their value might jump too I'd be surprised if Maryborough would pay -1300 to many if any or surely they would have a stronger list.

You’d be surprised, guys regularly get that and more because the clubs have no choice but to pay if they want to recruit anyone. If they don’t get someone in to have some hope then they lose everyone and die.

 

[localfootyguru]

Maryborough just need to forget it or teams need to refuse to play against them. Absolutely no benefit to playing a side full of 18/19 year olds and a small handful of slightly older boys and pulling their pants down. These boys will be mentally stuffed soon and literally will not know how to win. Seen it before at other clubs and it'll happen again. But I'm sure old mate from Maryborough that's on this forum will ensure everything is completely fine. Enjoy the hammerings.

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I don’t usually respond to ‘uneducated claptrap’ but I will in this instance.

The facts are the club has struggled on field in recent years for many reasons of which they have been debated at length on here. These issues remain and the recent post by Forest St End provides more substance to the challenges the club and football in the area face. The formation of the Giants is just the tip of the iceberg as there will be other clubs in the area merge or even disappear. Sport in the area is struggling and a good example is the Avoca Cricket Club going into recess this season due to lack of numbers.

As for the Maryborough FNC the club is financial and has money in the bank. It is travelling well off field with good sponsorship and community support. We certainly have a loyal band of supporters who have stuck with the club.

The club is on a slow build which is also sustainable unlike many clubs who go looking for immediate success which then results in a long and often significant hangover. The club is not prepared to go down that path and kudos to the committee for that approach. There is a really good batch of younger players coming through who have committed to the club for the long term despite receiving offers (and some good ones) from both local and Bendigo and Ballarat FNL clubs. The club has tried to get some of the former locals back but the money they have been offered in some instances is outrageous and well above what the club was prepared to pay. Maybe these are the individuals you don’t want to return.

I have been around footy at many levels across the country and was involved at the Magpies a long time ago. My role is to help the club become competitive again and they are on the right path. It is taking some time but you need to get the foundations in place before you start building the next levels. Things will work out although there will continue to be some hiccups. The most important thing is we have the people and structures in place to manage these when they occur. I am both cautious and optimistic about the future which is a good way in ensuring there will be successful times ahead.

 

[Forest St End]

I don’t usually respond to ‘uneducated claptrap’ but I will in this instance.

The facts are the club has struggled on field in recent years for many reasons of which they have been debated at length on here. These issues remain and the recent post by Forest St End provides more substance to the challenges the club and football in the area face. The formation of the Giants is just the tip of the iceberg as there will be other clubs in the area merge or even disappear. Sport in the area is struggling and a good example is the Avoca Cricket Club going into recess this season due to lack of numbers.

As for the Maryborough FNC the club is financial and has money in the bank. It is travelling well off field with good sponsorship and community support. We certainly have a loyal band of supporters who have stuck with the club.

The club is on a slow build which is also sustainable unlike many clubs who go looking for immediate success which then results in a long and often significant hangover. The club is not prepared to go down that path and kudos to the committee for that approach. There is a really good batch of younger players coming through who have committed to the club for the long term despite receiving offers (and some good ones) from both local and Bendigo and Ballarat FNL clubs. The club has tried to get some of the former locals back but the money they have been offered in some instances is outrageous and well above what the club was prepared to pay. Maybe these are the individuals you don’t want to return.

I have been around footy at many levels across the country and was involved at the Magpies a long time ago. My role is to help the club become competitive again and they are on the right path. It is taking some time but you need to get the foundations in place before you start building the next levels. Things will work out although there will continue to be some hiccups. The most important thing is we have the people and structures in place to manage these when they occur. I am both cautious and optimistic about the future which is a good way in ensuring there will be successful times ahead.

Well said LFG, there’s a lot of posters on here who either don’t have contemporary knowledge of running a club or have zero idea what it’s like to be a club outside of Bendigo.

 

[Vlodrive]

I don’t usually respond to ‘uneducated claptrap’ but I will in this instance.

The facts are the club has struggled on field in recent years for many reasons of which they have been debated at length on here. These issues remain and the recent post by Forest St End provides more substance to the challenges the club and football in the area face. The formation of the Giants is just the tip of the iceberg as there will be other clubs in the area merge or even disappear. Sport in the area is struggling and a good example is the Avoca Cricket Club going into recess this season due to lack of numbers.

As for the Maryborough FNC the club is financial and has money in the bank. It is travelling well off field with good sponsorship and community support. We certainly have a loyal band of supporters who have stuck with the club.

The club is on a slow build which is also sustainable unlike many clubs who go looking for immediate success which then results in a long and often significant hangover. The club is not prepared to go down that path and kudos to the committee for that approach. There is a really good batch of younger players coming through who have committed to the club for the long term despite receiving offers (and some good ones) from both local and Bendigo and Ballarat FNL clubs. The club has tried to get some of the former locals back but the money they have been offered in some instances is outrageous and well above what the club was prepared to pay. Maybe these are the individuals you don’t want to return.

I have been around footy at many levels across the country and was involved at the Magpies a long time ago. My role is to help the club become competitive again and they are on the right path. It is taking some time but you need to get the foundations in place before you start building the next levels. Things will work out although there will continue to be some hiccups. The most important thing is we have the people and structures in place to manage these when they occur. I am both cautious and optimistic about the future which is a good way in ensuring there will be successful times ahead.

Yes everyone knows the issues. Sticking in the Bendigo league and hoping the kids turn the club around is just stupid. They need to start spending money and get experience in regardless if you think its the wrong idea. Other wise these kids will get older and will be absolute duds. Anyway I'm sure clubs will appreciate the easy 8 points from a joke of a club.

On SM-G970F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Del28562]

If they had bond, Crameri and richards they'd be already a 10 goal better side.



They need 4-5 guys 24+ in age with mature bodies, otherwise the kids they blood and develop will leave at 22, sick of losing, its a hard cycle to break. Would adcock, Chaplin etc come back and play 4 + games to help out.

 

[Forest St End]

Anyway I'm sure clubs will appreciate the easy 8 points from a joke of a club.

Calling them a joke just reflects badly on you in my opinion.

They are not a joke, they are a fine club, important to the town and have produced teams up with the very best ever seen in the competition.

They are being asked to perform a task that is nigh on impossible because an incompetent and impotent administration has failed to evolve the game as the world has changed over the past 30 years.

Where do you think the AFL would be if it hadn’t implemented equalisation measures in the game? West Coast would win the flag every year and half the teams in Melbourne would have folded.

 

[localfootyguru]

Yes everyone knows the issues. Sticking in the Bendigo league and hoping the kids turn the club around is just stupid. They need to start spending money and get experience in regardless if you think its the wrong idea. Other wise these kids will get older and will be absolute duds. Anyway I'm sure clubs will appreciate the easy 8 points from a joke of a club.

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I’m not going to say anymore except if you don’t have anything constructive to say don’t bother…

I’ve been around football for a long time at all levels and the approach the club is using will eventually bring results. It isn’t easy but it will be rewarding. Perhaps you’re involved with a club that just pays whatever players want to bring success. Some clubs can do this but trust me it fails at some stage and someone has to clean up the mess.

It’s easy to hide behind a keyboard and post rubbish especially when you have no idea of the happenings at Maryborough FNC. They are a proud club and don’t want to be unsuccessful (what club does) but they are also working within their means which is great to see and sticking to a plan that is sustainable and not a ‘boom and bust’ approach that commonly occurs. The club also provides significant benefit to the community in many ways which is something that many don’t realise and that is an important factor to consider for any sporting club, not less Maryborough as a town which has challenges from a socio economic perspective.

 

[BlueJet]

Yes everyone knows the issues. Sticking in the Bendigo league and hoping the kids turn the club around is just stupid. They need to start spending money and get experience in regardless if you think its the wrong idea. Other wise these kids will get older and will be absolute duds. Anyway I'm sure clubs will appreciate the easy 8 points from a joke of a club.

On SM-G970F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Sweet, roll up your sleeves and help out. I'm sure they, like all clubs, could do with a few extra volunteers.

 

[localfootyguru]

If they had bond, Crameri and richards they'd be already a 10 goal better side.



They need 4-5 guys 24+ in age with mature bodies, otherwise the kids they blood and develop will leave at 22, sick of losing, its a hard cycle to break. Would adcock, Chaplin etc come back and play 4 + games to help out.

Not sure a 10 goal better team but would be improved. The guys named have been approached and were at the club previously. Fellows like Crameri were offered significant coin by a cashed up club and we couldn’t compete with that.

Adcock and Chaplin (was a Rovers player) haven’t played for years but they have provided support and input along with a number of other former greats from the club.

 

[Vlodrive]

Calling them a joke just reflects badly on you in my opinion.

They are not a joke, they are a fine club, important to the town and have produced teams up with the very best ever seen in the competition.

They are being asked to perform a task that is nigh on impossible because an incompetent and impotent administration has failed to evolve the game as the world has changed over the past 30 years.

Where do you think the AFL would be if it hadn’t implemented equalisation measures in the game? West Coast would win the flag every year and half the teams in Melbourne would have folded.

Where do they go for their footy trip? McDonald's play ground? Can't wait to watch my mates run through the Maryborough witches hats next year lol

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[Forest St End]

Where do they go for their footy trip? McDonald's play ground? Can't wait to watch my mates run through the Maryborough witches hats next year lol

On SM-G970F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Just watching, don’t play yourself?

 

[localfootyguru]

Just watching, don’t play yourself?

Going by the posts Forest St End I am guessing the individual is there at the McDonald’s playground on a frequent basis.