Bailey Contract Extension

[wapower]

BTW you realise that is not a stable logical statement.

for it to be valid (and it may be a valid statement, I'm not necessarily saying its not) you would need to demonstrate you had the experience and knowledge to be able to judge whether he held sufficient coaching acumen.

by saying you base your conclusion on you meeting him, it makes it as much about you as it does him.

He doesn't need to know, when someone makes a statement that relies on their expert knowledge then the onus is on them to demonstrate that such a reliance is justified.

95% of the people who work for AFL clubs wouldn't know if someone unproven was a good AFL coach. that's not the standard.

FWIW my personal feeling is that Bailey is probably a talent (based on his reputation from Port and that he won a contested job), but hasn't been in position to give it his best shot; nor would I assume that the losing hasn't taken its toll, and that he can necessarily flick a switch and start over.

sometimes a bad situation damages your outlook.

in the context of this statement, it might be appropriate to state how long you spoke to him and it what circumstance.

though your hyperbole is a little excessive, I don't think his results mean he is a bad coach.

Well Crow-mo, all I am prepared to give you is at length discussion at corporate events, training sessions and interstate trips. Those discussions ranged from many issues including match day tactics, player development, state of the game and the direction in which it was headed. I've then made a judgement decision on the discussions with Bailey and other coaches or administrators I have had.

I have no desire or need to explain my own understanding and experience with football.

 

[masai]

Got any proof that he can't coach a premiership side.

I think that's the point.

A lot of these blokes would have been sinking the boots into Bomber Thompson and Al Clarkson a few years back.

I was commenting on the comment that the Dee's had gone through " the most thorough rebuild of a list in the draft era ".

It is a big statement and I don't believe it is correct, I was just interested in the background to this comment. eg. how many players were turned over in 08 and 09 ?.

 

[stickman11]

Bailey inherited a mess left by Daniher and Craig Cameron who thought he could buy some clapped out premiership players and go for glory. As much as ND did for the club, he lacked vision or a plan. Bailey atleast has a direction, has had to start from well back compared to other coaches. Deserves time to finish his plan.

Love to know from bomber fans what the beatle was like at the bombers as a player.

 

[Trav 20]

though your hyperbole is a little excessive

Tautological.

 

[Crow-mo]

Well Crow-mo, all I am prepared to give you is at length discussion at corporate events, training sessions and interstate trips. Those discussions ranged from many issues including match day tactics, player development, state of the game and the direction in which it was headed. I've then made a judgement decision on the discussions with Bailey and other coaches or administrators I have had.

I have no desire or need to explain my own understanding and experience with football.

that's fine, but you're not helping yourself.

ps. if you had no need you'd not have made the wild claims in the first place.

Tautological.

only if you demonstrate the line, where excess segues into hyperbole

 

[DanA]

Bailey inherited a list no experienced AFL coach would have taken. In his time I have clearly seen the players and list develop. That's about all you can ask for given his predicament. Richmond like turnover in coaches will not turn the club around. You need an element of continuity.

 

[merkinboyce]

Bailey inherited a list no experienced AFL coach would have taken. In his time I have clearly seen the players and list develop. That's about all you can ask for given his predicament. Richmond like turnover in coaches will not turn the club around. You need an element of continuity.

Finally, somebody can see it. Its pleasing as a demons supporter to finally see a bit of stability and a direction to head in, as opposed to ND's regime, although I was a big fan of the man, seems to spin in circles from year to year.

Many people seem to be asking what DB's gameplan/vision is, and nobody can seem to answer it. To me it seems he is adding versatile, highly skilled players and moving to a higher possession game than the past. You only have to look at, I don't know, dreamteam scores from the demons and there are some biggies (I know DT is a poor measure, but it kinda works).

Also he is adding a versatile mix of players, which I feel is emulating a Geelong style midfield. Geelong's structure works so well in that they have highly skilled midfielders, who can play numerous roles, and are different in the way they play. For example, Tapscott looks to be Chapman-esque, Gysberts possibly Joel Corey, Trengove alike to Bartel, Scully to Ablett. Obviously I'm not comparing the skill-level or anything, but I just feel that we are going for that correct mix.

 

[Trav 20]

only if you demonstrate the line, where excess segues into hyperbole

And did you ? I would have been more convinced if you'd dropped the word "little".

Btw, why the comma after "line" ?

 

[wapower]

that's fine, but you're not helping yourself.

ps. if you had no need you'd not have made the wild claims in the first place.

only if you demonstrate the line, where excess segues into hyperbole

Forgive me for not being enamored enough with bigfooty to "need" to impress you and the masses Crow-mo.

 

[DanA]

I look at the Melbourne list and it's clearly got a lot more quality.


FB: Frawley Warnock, Macdonald
HB: Petterd Rivers Morton
C: Jones Grimes Silvia
HF: Bate Jurrah Davey
FF: Wanameera Watt Miller
R: Trengrove Scully
Int: Maloney, Martin, Dunn, Maric

It looks very promising, yes they'll probably have to trade for a ruckman at some stage in the future but the structure looks to me to have progressed massively when you look at the team (minus the old guys).

I like the team Bailey has created and I like the fact he has gotten games into the youth. He might have been able to push up the ladder a couple of spots but that would have been at the cost of development of youth and ultimately detrimental to the club.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I like the team Bailey has created and I like the fact he has gotten games into the youth. He might have been able to push up the ladder a couple of spots but that would have been at the cost of development of youth and ultimately detrimental to the club.

Not sure of the Melbourne off-field structure - however all that I would assume Bailey has created is 2 wooden spoons and a number of high draft picks.

It is the recruiting staff that have built the playing base

 

[HFF]

Oh woopdeedoo, he can move some match-ups around and throw a few games, what a master. Can he win games?

LMAO!!

Quality post.

Particularly as it was in response to comment about Bailey able to "deliver picks 1 and 2" making it sound like it was a stroke of genius to achieve.

 

[wapower]

Not sure of the Melbourne off-field structure - however all that I would assume Bailey has created is 2 wooden spoons and a number of high draft picks.

It is the recruiting staff that have built the playing base

You are telling me, the senior coach has nothing to do with recruiting and drafting? He doesn't view any tape, doesn't see any of the youngsters play and doesn't take on the recommendations of the recruiting staff to make decisions with his coaching staff about who to draft? Whilst not having total control, surely a senior coach is involved in some of that process.. with his staff.

It would be scary if you were involved in football at a high level.

 

[jihg]

Bailey inherited a list no experienced AFL coach would have taken. In his time I have clearly seen the players and list develop. That's about all you can ask for given his predicament. Richmond like turnover in coaches will not turn the club around. You need an element of continuity.

So 2 coaches in a ten year period is turning over coaches? You are an idiot!

 

[greenred]

You are telling me, the senior coach has nothing to do with recruiting and drafting? He doesn't view any tape, doesn't see any of the youngsters play and doesn't take on the recommendations of the recruiting staff to make decisions with his coaching staff about who to draft? Whilst not having total control, surely a senior coach is involved in some of that process.. with his staff.

It would be scary if you were involved in football at a high level.

It's an interesting point. Just how much input do senior coaches have in recruitment? Most clubs have large recruiting networks, and while I don't doubt the coaches have a fair say on the type of player they want, they are only going to see what is presented to them by their recruitment team. If they aren't finding the right players to begin with, the senior coach isn't likely to have time to find them. It's rarely the senior coach that makes the calls on draft day.

 

[PUSSIES_07_FLAG]

Is this news worthy

He's pretty irrelevant.... don't think hes got a hand on any of the good coaches. Also the team is irrelevant and years away from being anything but a cellar dweller.

 

[jihg]

I like the team Bailey has created and I like the fact he has gotten games into the youth. He might have been able to push up the ladder a couple of spots but that would have been at the cost of development of youth and ultimately detrimental to the club.

So he got games into the kids and deliberately lost games. If he had of won some of those games with those kids playing how would that be detrimental to the development of the kids?

 

[Demon 16]

So he got games into the kids and deliberately lost games. If he had of won some of those games with those kids playing how would that be detrimental to the development of the kids?

If he had won some of those games we wouldnt have some of those kids.

 

[jihg]

If he had won some of those games we wouldnt have some of those kids.

How would winning games last season playing kids be detrimental to those kids development?

 

[Crow-mo]

Forgive me for not being enamored enough with bigfooty to "need" to impress you and the masses Crow-mo.

oh no, you did need to impress with the big claims - it was the getting caught in the headlights you weren't so fond of.

 

[Demon 16]

How would winning games last season playing kids be detrimental to those kids development?

It would have lessened the quality of personel around them which in turn would be less beneficial for the development of the playing group.

 

[SouthSwans]

Very smart move by Melbourne, Bailey is getting under the guard of everyone and building a super list with some very talented, smart footballers that can lead this young group.

In the past many have been critical of him but the reality is that the Dees list was hopeless and to get the priority picks into the side before the concessions for WS and GC come in was a sensational descision.

Could've persevered with the likes of Yze, White, Bizzell, Brown, Carroll, Godfrey, Ward, Holland etc and had another crack at finals.

Taking the initiative to terminate these contracts was in the short term a backward step, but in 4-5 years from now the Melbourne powerhouse that will be built around names like Watts, Scully, Trengove, Morton, Tapscott, Frawley, Petterd, Garland, Warnock, Jurrah, Grimes, Blease, Strauss will be feared by everyone.

Sylvia, Bate and Davey are three very cool heads that will guide this young pack after being tought by club legends Neitz, Robertson, McDonald, Bruce and Green.

Joel Macdonald is a great move too, a clever player who knows what a winning culture is about.

Bailey knows exactly what he's doing and has for a while. Getting games into these kids gets them ready early for challenges the group will face in the coming years.

IMO it was a no-brainer to re-instate him, for one his salary would be far less than any other coach in the AFL or many potential coaches they would replace him with. They'd be absolutely nuts if they didn't sign him again.

 

[wapower]

oh no, you did need to impress with the big claims - it was the getting caught in the headlights you weren't so fond of.

The day I feel the need to justify myself to a nobody is the day I'll stop posting on bigfooty. There's no rabbit in the headlights here.

 

[Crow-mo]

The day I feel the need to justify myself to a nobody is the day I'll stop posting on bigfooty. There's no rabbit in the headlights here.

lol. sure thing guy. it was all "look at me, look at me" until you were challenged and instead of putting up, you changed course with a bucket load of denial: "I don't need people to look at me".

enjoy the last word, I'm sure you'll take that opportunity - for someone pretending not to care, its sure important to you that you're seen to be justifying yourself.

 

[Books]

People seem surprised that Dean Bailey's contract was extended after two wooden spoons.

His contract was extended because of the two wooden spoons!

As David Schwartz said on SEN last year, if he had won 5 games and missed the spoon (and the priority pick) he would have been sacked.

He has done exactly what the club required him to do (lose 18 matches) and he is being duly rewarded.

No surprise at all.