Are things (Australia/society/the world) getting better or worse?

[checkraiseulite]

A large part of this culture I believe is driven by a lack of information about what truly makes humans happy. I.e. learning new things, finding and striving towards goals, constantly experiancing new things, finding a lover to share life with, having children etc. Whilst pyschology has mostly focussed on how to fix mental problems over the last 100 years, it hasn't been focussing on what makes us happy. Research into happiness is slowly building and hopefully in the future governments start using these findings to educate the populace. I believe this will happen and is one of the reasons why the world will get better. Which is what this thread is about.

Having you considered giving 'happiness' seminars? I'm sure there'd be plenty of money in it for you.

Also I don't think Caesar is saying that this instant gratification culture ruins people's lives. Just that it results in a lot of potential going to waste, which has costs not only for the individuals themselves but also for society as (a) the taxpayer has to (directly or indirectly) support these people and (b) society misses out on the utility of these people anyway. Also, there is a huge difference in knowing what makes us happy, and having the ability and opportunity to achieve the goal of happiness (there are cold hard realities in this world).

The biggest problem for society going forward is the divergence of the interests of individuals and the interests of society in general. Simple game theory that cannot really be solved in any meaningful way that would result in the world becoming a better place.

 

[Seeds]

Having you considered giving 'happiness' seminars? I'm sure there'd be plenty of money in it for you.

Also I don't think Caesar is saying that this instant gratification culture ruins people's lives. Just that it results in a lot of potential going to waste, which has costs not only for the individuals themselves but also for society as (a) the taxpayer has to (directly or indirectly) support these people and (b) society misses out on the utility of these people anyway. Also, there is a huge difference in knowing what makes us happy, and having the ability and opportunity to achieve the goal of happiness (there are cold hard realities in this world).

The biggest problem for society going forward is the divergence of the interests of individuals and the interests of society in general. Simple game theory that cannot really be solved in any meaningful way that would result in the world becoming a better place.

I didn't say it ruined lives either. Even what he did say is in the minority though. Not many people play computer games to a level that reduces their work output. Most people who like computer games replace alternative forms of leisure for playing the computer, not work or study. The ones who do make up a very small minority.

I do agree with your point on happiness. We still know very little about it and it is different for different people, as with everything. So if you believe this then why are you guys so sure happiness levels are getting worse and making the world a worse place?

 

[checkraiseulite]

I didn't say it ruined lives either. Even what he did say is in the minority though. Not many people play computer games to a level that reduces their work output. Most people who like computer games replace alternative forms of leisure for playing the computer, not work or study. The ones who do make up a very small minority.

I do agree with your point on happiness. We still know very little about it and it is different for different people, as with everything. So if you believe this then why are you guys so sure happiness levels are getting worse and making the world a worse place?

It doesn't need to be computer games. It could be tv/internet forums/facebook whatever.

For example, today I've wasted at least a couple of hours study time browsing this site and watching tv when I should have been studying for an important exam friday afternoon. Other days have been the same and my activity on this site and propensity to watch crappy tv/movies actually increases when it's exam time.

I would suggest that this is true of the vast majority of students although the impact such time-wasting has obv varies hugely.

But that also gives rise to another point. Fast forward 20 years and imagine a 40 year old that wasted 15-25 playing WoW and watching Game of Thrones and didn't develop any social skills, friendships or relationships. Will he regret his diminished work ouput or his social position more? I don't think it'd be close and my point is that in 20 years time there'll be a lot of these people.

I'm not saying that happiness levels are getting worse for everyone. I just think social interaction is basic determinant of happiness for the majority of people, and given the limiting effect technology is having on social interaction, happiness will suffer long term.

It's not something fixable, I don't think you can't wind back the clock or tell people "spending all your time on the computer is bad, go outside and make friends". Just like that "are you ok day?" gimmicky bs. What are you going to do if someone says no, they're not ok?

TL;DR.

 

[fairdinkum]

...tl;dr

except it is now 'Friend X scored 2000 points on Bowling Alone (like)'

 

[shurg123]

Interesting take on things:

 

[mayhem]

On the whole i would say better, only slightly ahead though. For all the advances in Technology\Medicine we as the human race are still dragged back by War, Famine, Corruption on International levels makes it a slow process to unify the world for common goals.

Mankind needs to alter its behavioural patterns towards both fellow Man and Nature if not the answer to the above question it will get worse.

 

[Seeds]

It doesn't need to be computer games. It could be tv/internet forums/facebook whatever.

For example, today I've wasted at least a couple of hours study time browsing this site and watching tv when I should have been studying for an important exam friday afternoon. Other days have been the same and my activity on this site and propensity to watch crappy tv/movies actually increases when it's exam time.

I would suggest that this is true of the vast majority of students although the impact such time-wasting has obv varies hugely.

But that also gives rise to another point. Fast forward 20 years and imagine a 40 year old that wasted 15-25 playing WoW and watching Game of Thrones and didn't develop any social skills, friendships or relationships. Will he regret his diminished work ouput or his social position more? I don't think it'd be close and my point is that in 20 years time there'll be a lot of these people.

I'm not saying that happiness levels are getting worse for everyone. I just think social interaction is basic determinant of happiness for the majority of people, and given the limiting effect technology is having on social interaction, happiness will suffer long term.

It's not something fixable, I don't think you can't wind back the clock or tell people "spending all your time on the computer is bad, go outside and make friends". Just like that "are you ok day?" gimmicky bs. What are you going to do if someone says no, they're not ok?

TL;DR.

Help me as I'm confused by your logic. If happiness isn't getting worse, as you say in the first sentence of the highlighted paragraph, then the world is not worse off and thus theres no justification for saying the world will be worse. But then in the same paragraph you say happiness will suffer long term. I've got no idea what you are saying so I can't really respond.

 

[Seeds]

On the whole i would say better, only slightly ahead though. For all the advances in Technology\Medicine we as the human race are still dragged back by War, Famine, Corruption on International levels makes it a slow process to unify the world for common goals.

Mankind needs to alter its behavioural patterns towards both fellow Man and Nature if not the answer to the above question it will get worse.

Yes these things are still big problems. But they have always been problems and were even bigger problems in the past. These problems are disappearing, albeit slower then we hope.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Help me as I'm confused by your logic. If happiness isn't getting worse, as you say in the first sentence of the highlighted paragraph, then the world is not worse off and thus theres no justification for saying the world will be worse. But then in the same paragraph you say happiness will suffer long term. I've got no idea what you are saying so I can't really respond.

The statement that I don't believe happiness levels are getting worse for everyone is perfectly reconcilable with the general observation that happiness levels (in a vacuum) will likely decrease over time as social interaction lessens as a result of technological advances.

Not sure where the logical flaw is there.

Even the statements happiness levels are not decreasing for everyone and happiness levels (in general) will suffer long term (as a result of technology) are not irreconcilable.

 

[sabre_ac]

Life in Australia is brilliant and its the world leader for lifestyle and opportunities..If your make enough money.

I know this is common throughout the world but while abroad I'm noticing it seems to be a bigger issue in Australia, specially when you compare middle class to those just above middle class (Not talking about the extremely wealthy here). The problem has allot to do with price of houses compared to income and access public transport. Because we are so car reliant, location is more relevant in Australia than other places, if you make enough money you can get the house in the suburb closer to work or a decent public transport and you spend ALLOT less time in your car. You are also more likely to leave your house/suburb on weekends and take part in wider community opportunities.

As far as changes go, I can only compare to when I was a kid (Only 20 years ago). The main thing I have noticed is how more acceptable it is to do "American things" like Halloween etc. My parents generation and my own to some extent actively fought against doing anything that felt too American, due to the world becoming a much smaller place the next generations seem to me to be less Australian and more worldy, a good and a bad thing.

The one thing I do like is young people seem to have had a shift in priorities in life, most have travel as number one which is great.

 

[fairdinkum]

As far as changes go, I can only compare to when I was a kid (Only 20 years ago). The main thing I have noticed is how more acceptable it is to do "American things" like Halloween etc. My parents generation and my own to some extent actively fought against doing anything that felt too American, due to the world becoming a much smaller place the next generations seem to me to be less Australian and more worldy, a good and a bad thing.

But you watched American television/film, yeah?

Yeah.

 

[chargers 09]

Halloween isn't an American tradition. It's Irish.

 

[BEEG]

Will be very happy to be dead in 40-60 years

I fear what the world will be like around then

 

[Roobs321]

Will be very happy to be dead in 40-60 years

I fear what the world will be like around then

Anyone at any moment in history could have said the same thing.

The world is improving. Let's also not forget that the world has only been truly international for a century or two (or even since WWII in more purely nation state terms). There have been teething problems, but a global world is still rather young.

Life in Australia is brilliant and its the world leader for lifestyle and opportunities..If your make enough money.

I know this is common throughout the world but while abroad I'm noticing it seems to be a bigger issue in Australia, specially when you compare middle class to those just above middle class (Not talking about the extremely wealthy here). The problem has allot to do with price of houses compared to income and access public transport. Because we are so car reliant, location is more relevant in Australia than other places, if you make enough money you can get the house in the suburb closer to work or a decent public transport and you spend ALLOT less time in your car. You are also more likely to leave your house/suburb on weekends and take part in wider community opportunities.

As far as changes go, I can only compare to when I was a kid (Only 20 years ago). The main thing I have noticed is how more acceptable it is to do "American things" like Halloween etc. My parents generation and my own to some extent actively fought against doing anything that felt too American, due to the world becoming a much smaller place the next generations seem to me to be less Australian and more worldy, a good and a bad thing.

The one thing I do like is young people seem to have had a shift in priorities in life, most have travel as number one which is great.

Travel as number one priority doesnt sound great to me.

 

[sabre_ac]

Travel as number one priority doesnt sound great to me.

What should be priority? Education (Well tick, most young people are in the process of attaining that), Career? (My generation will likely be working untill their 70, thats up to 50 years in the work force to build a next egg), Starting a family? (Most people would argue against doing that before you have established the first two)

Each to their own, I'd argue getting a mortgage and spending your 20's paying it down at the expense of experiencing the world is something allot of people would come to regret.

I know it's possible to do both, but with today's house prices and most cases it's one or the other.

Halloween isn't an American tradition. It's Irish.

Not really addressing my post but anyway..

It may have its origins in Ireland but the trick or treating and dressing up is very American.

 

[checkraiseulite]

What should be priority?

Balance.

Endless travel (at the expense of other things such as financial security/education/job experience/commitment in general) in the quest for 'enlightenment' and 'life experience' should not be a number one priority of members of this generation.

 

[Caesar]

Why the heck not? I worked through my 20s. It's highly overrated. If you're not completely obsessed with status then you do yourself no harm leaving a career and financial security until you're a bit older.

My cousin spent most of his 20s travelling endlessly. Now he's mid 30s with a solid career, a house and a baby on the way.

 

[sabre_ac]

Balance.

Endless travel (at the expense of other things such as financial security/education/job experience/commitment in general) in the quest for 'enlightenment' and 'life experience' should not be a number one priority of members of this generation.

I should make the disclosure that while I have travelled, I have done no more than most people my age.

Most people in their 20's with extensive travelling experience do not travel for "enlightenment", people who presume this are not giving them the respect they deserve and or are on some level jealous, noted there are travel snobs out there who infuraite everyone. Travelling through your 20's comes down to having fun, that's it. I'm not going to go any deeper than to say, the experiences I had and people I've met while abroad will bring me pleasure throughout my life.

If you can get the job in your 20's that lets you afford the mortgage and time abroad your luckier than most, ultimately most have to decide between both. Granted those who go into debt earlier will be out of debt earlier, my opinion on this is I'd prefer to see Europe/South America cheaply in my 20's than comfortably in my 60's/70's.

At some stage most people have to nuckle down at create a nest egg, but with the likelihood of my generation living well into their 80s' (I've read some say 50% will live to be 100). Throwing money into a mortgage, working long hours for a career and starting a family can be put off for a decade.

Do what makes you happy and pass on your tips to whoever is willing to listen.

 

[fairdinkum]

At some stage most people have to nuckle down at create a nest egg, but with the likelihood of my generation living well into their 80s' (I've read some say 50% will live to be 100). Throwing money into a mortgage, working long hours for a career and starting a family can be put off for a decade.

Where on earth did you read that?

I look around, see fat people everywhere. There's no way any of these porkies are living to 100.

Most will struggle to reach the same age their parents did, imo.

 

[Ted38]

Yes these things are still big problems. But they have always been problems and were even bigger problems in the past. These problems are disappearing, albeit slower then we hope.

Really? Well I would never have known if you hadn't told me.

 

[Donners]

A relative of mine is a teacher. She went to a working bee at her (government) school on Saturday, which was focused on a vegetable and flower garden on the school grounds. Notes had gone home with the school's 1500+ students to notify them of the event and invite them to assist. One single parent turned up. Back when I was a kid, there'd be dozens of parents assisting, but apparently it is quite rare for parents to do anything to help now.

It sounds like a minor thing, but it's quite sad to think that parents have such little interest or investment in the environment where their child will spend so much time.

 

[Ted38]

Life in Australia is brilliant and its the world leader for lifestyle and opportunities..If your make enough money.

I know this is common throughout the world but while abroad I'm noticing it seems to be a bigger issue in Australia, specially when you compare middle class to those just above middle class (Not talking about the extremely wealthy here). The problem has allot to do with price of houses compared to income and access public transport. Because we are so car reliant, location is more relevant in Australia than other places, if you make enough money you can get the house in the suburb closer to work or a decent public transport and you spend ALLOT less time in your car. You are also more likely to leave your house/suburb on weekends and take part in wider community opportunities.

As far as changes go, I can only compare to when I was a kid (Only 20 years ago). The main thing I have noticed is how more acceptable it is to do "American things" like Halloween etc. My parents generation and my own to some extent actively fought against doing anything that felt too American, due to the world becoming a much smaller place the next generations seem to me to be less Australian and more worldy, a good and a bad thing.

The one thing I do like is young people seem to have had a shift in priorities in life, most have travel as number one which is great.

ALLOT?

 

[Colin D'Cops]

I feel I'm in a minority at the moment, being 19.

- I prefer to not drink if given the option when I'm not around true mates. I can have fun without it. Most need it.
- I work part-time and study law, whilst everyone seems to be in the 'best time of your life' mode. I'm chipping away trying to find that 'good place', to then have the 'best time of my life'.
- I prefer to mix with friends and family, but not be restricted to one person (eg. girlfriend). I want to be free, do what I want, when I want - and I'm comfortable with that.

I guess with my father having two jobs, and not seeing him as much as I'd like over the last half a dozen years or so, it has made me more determined to get to that 'good place'. From there I feel I can then have the best time of my life. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying life at the moment, learning ways of spinning law and coaching a great sport in tennis - but I don't want to celebrate life to the absolute fullest just yet. Don't want to run out of fuel, if you get my drift.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

Balance.

Endless travel (at the expense of other things such as financial security/education/job experience/commitment in general) in the quest for 'enlightenment' and 'life experience' should not be a number one priority of members of this generation.

That's my way of thinking also. Not sure if it is 100% right or wrong yet though, to be honest.

Will have to wait and see where I end up to comment further.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Why the heck not? I worked through my 20s. It's highly overrated. If you're not completely obsessed with status then you do yourself no harm leaving a career and financial security until you're a bit older.

My cousin spent most of his 20s travelling endlessly. Now he's mid 30s with a solid career, a house and a baby on the way.

I just think everything's better in moderation, by all means travel for a few years. I just wouldn;t want to be a professional traveller with nothing behind me at 28-30.

A lot of my negative views towards obsessive travel are probably shaped by people in my social circle and acquaintances.

They're quintessential travel w***ers from privileged backgrounds with huge safety nets waiting for them. They'd gain more life experience actually committing to something here for a change.