Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

[Carn The Berries]

They use maths, but the variables and limits are controllable when considering borrowing power.

They don't let someone on $50,000 p.a. borrow $1,000,000.

Do the calculators line out the repayments at different interest levels to show people what they're in for when circumstances change?

Most of what you're demanding is a level of knowledge and education that not everyone has, but the bank lending them definitely does have. Most buyers are also at the mercy of the market itself, if you want to buy a house with any level of proximity to Melbourne, it's not cheap or affordable by any historical measure.

Rightly or wrongly, when people see the bank say 'you can afford to borrow x' they assume they can. People lacking financial literacy are the most deeply impacted by this stuff, who are mostly going to be low-to-middle income earners.

Are you suggesting the banks should be providing this level of detail? Are we completely absolving borrowers of all responsibility for their decisions?

 

[faible]

Are you suggesting the banks should be providing this level of detail? Are we completely absolving borrowers of all responsibility for their decisions?

Yes, they should be. It's pretty easy to add a 'if the interest rate increases by 1% / 2% / 3% this would be your repayment'

Assuming everyone has the knowledge and capability to assess this independently is folly.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Yes, they should be. It's pretty easy to add a 'if the interest rate increases by 1% / 2% / 3% this would be your repayment'

Assuming everyone has the knowledge and capability to assess this independently is folly.

Just had a very quick look at the website of a Big 4 bank... Their loan calculator has a section where you can enter your own interest rate (with equivalent repayments and borrowing power). I'm not sure how much more hand holding can be expected.

 

[faible]

Just had a very quick look at the website of a Big 4 bank... Their loan calculator has a section where you can enter your own interest rate (with equivalent repayments and borrowing power). I'm not sure how much more hand holding can be expected.

You don't think the 'borrowing power' page should have a 'repayments' section? It's simply maths after all. Putting hurdles in the way forcing people to punch in different interest rates to check this all manually is a deliberate thing.

It's incredibly easy for a big bank to add this stuff, they have the knowledge and IT staff to make it happen within a couple of hours. Plenty of people have reasons not to be financially literate, simply allowing banks to do <whatever> and pushing all the blame on to the individual is lazy governance.

 

[Rob R]

Whether one likes him or not, Andrews was very good at politicking, very few pollies have gone head to head with Murdoch media and won, but he did it pretty convincingly.

Helped massively by an opposition that went cooker during covid and the lack of.a proper NACC. If he faced either of those, Andrews would have been gone by like the end of the pandemic

Albo to his credit has integrity, Andrews has none

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[faible]

Helped massively by an opposition that went cooker during covid and the lack of.a proper NACC. If he faced either of those, Andrews would have been gone by like the end of the pandemic

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Perhaps, but he also took on the Murdoch media establishment head on when it was out to bury him and won. Despite the controversy, scandals, and corruption.

He's streets ahead of Albanese or Dutton on that front.

 

[Carn The Berries]

You don't think the 'borrowing power' page should have a 'repayments' section? It's simply maths after all. Putting hurdles in the way forcing people to punch in different interest rates to check this all manually is a deliberate thing.

It's incredibly easy for a big bank to add this stuff, they have the knowledge and IT staff to make it happen within a couple of hours. Plenty of people have reasons not to be financially literate, simply allowing banks to do <whatever> and pushing all the blame on to the individual is lazy governance.

They are both shown on the same page, one next to the other. That's literally the point I was making.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

People get hung up with having the best house possible, not the best house and quality of life they can afford.

Why should people accept a shoebox with **** all infrastructure when thier parents could afford better with less?

25 years of policy designed to keep house prices high and inflated is coming home to roost.

That housing bubble is going blow up in a very uncontrolled manner if it's not delt with.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

A housing crash will come eventually. It can't not come, with the underlying fundamentals.

So my dream wish for Australia is that a Labor minority government takes office at the next election, which gets heaps of legislation through because Labor can no longer BS their way out of actually doing anything, but the voting public swallows the Murdoch BS about the chaos of minority government, ignores the great achievements of the minority Labor government and votes Dutton back in at the following election, only for him to be lumped half way through his term with the mother of all housing crashes, for which he of course has no answer, because no government can do anything about this crash when it eventually comes.

That is my dream.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Newspoll doesn't have Dutton ahead but he's not far off

Imagine how unlikeable you have to be to be at risk of Dutton being preferable to you

View attachment 2212056
Labor are heading towards being a one term government

They ****ed this up at levels never before seen

I'm still of the opinion that two months of a Trump admin might be enough, if Labor are simply not extremely stupid.

All they need to do is highlight the chaos being caused and the very real connection the Libs themselves have made.

Then talk about how they have and will address CoL pressures in the future.

 

[Gralin]

I'm still of the opinion that two months of a Trump admin might be enough, if Labor are simply not extremely stupid.

All they need to do is highlight the chaos being caused and the very real connection the Libs themselves have made.

Then talk about how they have and will address CoL pressures in the future.

At least a third of voters won't care because they'd vote for Trump

I don't see it really hurting the coalition at all

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

A housing crash will come eventually. It can't not come, with the underlying fundamentals.

So my dream wish for Australia is that a Labor minority government takes office at the next election, which gets heaps of legislation through because Labor can no longer BS their way out of actually doing anything, but the voting public swallows the Murdoch BS about the chaos of minority government, ignores the great achievements of the minority Labor government and votes Dutton back in at the following election, only for him to be lumped half way through his term with the mother of all housing crashes, for which he of course has no answer, because no government can do anything about this crash when it eventually comes.

That is my dream.

They'll use it as an excuse for shock therapy.

At this point the right want any reason at all to disassemble the state, because that is what their lunatic Randian backers want.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

At least a third of voters won't care because they'd vote for Trump

I don't see it really hurting the coalition at all

Australians like stability and are risk averse, especially older Australians.

For better or worse Dutton has jumped on board with Trumpian messaging and embraced the current international far right coalition.

American news is Australian news, and if America pulls itself to pieces as quickly as it is trying to do, Australian voters are going to recoil from any association to the causes of that ongoing disaster. The Trump name will matter less than the chaos linked with the overall rightwing vibe.

 

[JackOutback]

The number of Australians who would be genuinely Trump supporters would have to be closer to Pauline Hanson levels than Coalition levels.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

The number of Australians who would be genuinely Trump supporters would have to be closer to Pauline Hanson levels than Coalition levels.

Exactly.

And if the nightly news is filled to the brim with American economic upheaval, social upheaval, insane decisions, mass unemployment or union action etc. etc. the first thing people are going to think is "I don't want any of that here."

 

[Saint]

Why should people accept a shoebox with **** all infrastructure when thier parents could afford better with less?

25 years of policy designed to keep house prices high and inflated is coming home to roost.

That housing bubble is going blow up in a very uncontrolled manner if it's not delt with.

Nah. There are places which are worse. UK for example, or the main US cities where once Real Estate becomes such a restricted commodity, it becomes more and more oligopolistic, where unless you already have wealth already, you've got very little chance of working your way up.

 

[Gralin]

Australians like stability and are risk averse, especially older Australians.

For better or worse Dutton has jumped on board with Trumpian messaging and embraced the current international far right coalition.

American news is Australian news, and if America pulls itself to pieces as quickly as it is trying to do, Australian voters are going to recoil from any association to the causes of that ongoing disaster. The Trump name will matter less than the chaos linked with the overall rightwing vibe.

Dude people pay **** all attention beyond headlines if they even get that far

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Nah. There are places which are worse. UK for example, or the main US cities where once Real Estate becomes such a restricted commodity, it becomes more and more oligopolistic, where unless you already have wealth already, you've got very little chance of working your way up.

And that's something we should be preventing.

 

[Saint]

And that's something we should be preventing.

The point I was making is that it is not inevitable that people will revolt or refuse to accept this circumstance. It will take decades for real estate wealth to concentrate even further to the point of possible revolt. And we might reach much more remote working conditions by then, shifting the value out a bit further.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Point me to an article where they're saying it's still a problem and where they actually propose something in the future to fix it.

I just checked Jim Chalmers' twitter feed. It's complaining about Libs and patting themselves on the back for their tax cut a year ago.

He needs new material and policies or he's going to get turfed. Complaining that the LNP policies won't work is fine for opposition, not for the current treasurer during an ongoing CoL crisis.

Chalmers has never said it's over everybody go home we have fixed it etc, there's always a " There's still work to be done" after every running commentary regarding inflation whether it's during interviews or question time. He's quite confident in how he delivers information and that comes across as somebody who has solved it all it's under control etc but that's not the case. You could argue how he delivers the message could need tinkering absolutely.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

At least a third of voters won't care because they'd vote for Trump

I don't see it really hurting the coalition at all

That's because to them it's about "Bashing the left". If the country crashes and burns as long as the lefties go down with the ship as well they don't care. I'm convinced in 2 years time his MAGA folk will still worship him even if he hasn't actually fixed a thing and they all are poorer.

 

[QuietB]

I'm still of the opinion that two months of a Trump admin might be enough, if Labor are simply not extremely stupid.

All they need to do is highlight the chaos being caused and the very real connection the Libs themselves have made.

Then talk about how they have and will address CoL pressures in the future.

Two other things can help Albo beat Dutton;

1/ interest rate cut - this is increasingly likely and may decide the election on its own
2/ if the women of Australia unite and tell their men (if they swing that way) that will be getting zero sex - none - for the entire time Dutton is PM. If women do this Dutton will not get a single vote.

 

[Saint]

Two other things can help Albo beat Dutton;

1/ interest rate cut - this is increasingly likely and may decide the election on its own
2/ if the women of Australia unite and tell their men (if they swing that way) that will be getting zero sex - none - for the entire time Dutton is PM. If women do this Dutton will not get a single vote.

Underestimate the number of disgruntled divorcees and incels at your own peril. There are clearly a lot of men who hate women.

 

[Saint]

Chalmers has never said it's over everybody go home we have fixed it etc, there's always a " There's still work to be done" after every running commentary regarding inflation whether it's during interviews or question time. He's quite confident in how he delivers information and that comes across as somebody who has solved it all it's under control etc but that's not the case. You could argue how he delivers the message could need tinkering absolutely.

Oh, then he must have a policy he'd like to propose leading up to the next election which might ease the cost of living, at the expense of corporations who have made massive profits thanks to inflation yes? yes?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

A housing crash will come eventually. It can't not come, with the underlying fundamentals.

So my dream wish for Australia is that a Labor minority government takes office at the next election, which gets heaps of legislation through because Labor can no longer BS their way out of actually doing anything, but the voting public swallows the Murdoch BS about the chaos of minority government, ignores the great achievements of the minority Labor government and votes Dutton back in at the following election, only for him to be lumped half way through his term with the mother of all housing crashes, for which he of course has no answer, because no government can do anything about this crash when it eventually comes.

That is my dream.

I disagree a crash will come anytime soon, if at all, though a crash in housing is based entirely on one's own perspective.

What determines a crash? down 5%? 10%? 20%? More?

We have had something like 3 x periods over the last 6 years where housing has gone down 10%, some instances 15%, it has bounced back every time. We are in another downward correction right now even. As rates start coming down soon that will likely correct back to positive again.

If you look at housing growth since records began, I dont think the crash you want, will ever happen not unless some type of drastic government legislation is introduced which is targeted at housing.

But you need to remember that the majority of voters in Australia are homeowners. Thats why no government has done anything real or significant about making housing cheaper, cause if they do it, they won't get elected in. We saw a glimpse of this in 2019 when labor ran on implementing changes to Negative Gearing, well those got toasted and removed that policy in 2022 and they won.

There might be a time where disenfranchised youngsters who can't afford a home make up the majority of the voting base however that time is no way near close.