All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[IlovethePies]

I like how rather than engaging with what was written in a post, you wrestle it back to regurgitating things about a concept you've read a page on. MC was, quite obviously, talking about predominant elements of Russian culture.

I Like how rather than acknowledging the political context we all live in, you wrestle it back to an argument over concepts. We live in a political context in which mainstreamedia is pouring out an avalanche of anti-Putin and anti-Russia propaganda, promoting the lie that Russia is the new Nazi Germany and the main threat to world peace is Russia. The main threat to the world right now is US imperialism. It has deliberately provoked the war in Ukraine, and is backing the Israeli genocide in Gaza.

The US media churns out an endless barrage of anti-Putin and anti-Russia venom, never mentioning that Zelensky also heads a completely despotic, corrupt regime which is sending Ukrainian men to war to die for the interests of both Ukrainian financial oligarchs and for their corporate and financial backers in the US. Netahayu is carrying out genocide in Gaza, but we never see his image in the msm with captions of Mass Murderer. So an entire atmosphere is being created, in which Russia is being cast as a pariah-beyond the pale state. this is also expressed by the numerous occasions in which Russian athletes are banned from participating in tournaments/sporting events, and Russian musicians/composers/artists are likewise banned from cultural events.

The msm is attempting to acclimatise the population in the US, Western Europe and Australia to escalating NATO violence against the "evil state of Russia". In this context, claims that Russian culture is pareticulary cruel to animals - a ridicuolous claim without any historical analysis of how society in Russia developed over centuries - becomes another element in creating a whole picture in which Russia is the epitome of evil, while the uS and NATO are somehow concerned about "freedom and democracy". So until you take into account the contemporary political context, your criticism of me is empty of any meaningful content.

 

[Markfs]

Things are moving on the zionism front..... i read similar stories to the following in other media outlets. It looks like Trump might assist Israel in making the West Bank jewish...and I have read that it might extend beyond that to areas in jordan. In light of such possibilities, you can see why netty is continuing to pursue the war with hamas......

"Miriam Adelson, the wife of the late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, has reportedly pledged to spend more than $100 million to support former President Donald Trump in the upcoming general election after staying neutral in the Republican presidential primaries this year.

But lately it’s become more apparent why she has decided to throw her support behind Trump.

In a recent profile in New York magazine, Adelson suggested that she might want Trump to push for the annexation of the occupied West Bank if he wins a second term — described in the piece as “unfinished Israel business from Trump’s presidency.”

Trump’s 2020 Middle East peace plan had included potential U.S. recognition of some Israeli West Bank settlements. But such moves were postponed and the administration instead focused on normalization agreements between Israel, the United Arab Emirates and three other Arab nations. Former U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman, who held the position in the Trump administration and is still closely connected with the former president, has recently been advocating for a new annexation plan. Following a Shabbat dinner at Mar-a-Lago with Miriam Adelson in March, Trump told the Israel Hayom newspaper that he plans to discuss this annexation strategy with the former ambassador.

According to Politico, Trump has met with Adelson multiple times and has also had phone conversations with her in recent months. "

 

[jathanas]

I Like how rather than acknowledging the political context we all live in, you wrestle it back to an argument over concepts. We live in a political context in which mainstreamedia is pouring out an avalanche of anti-Putin and anti-Russia propaganda, promoting the lie that Russia is the new Nazi Germany and the main threat to world peace is Russia. The main threat to the world right now is US imperialism. It has deliberately provoked the war in Ukraine, and is backing the Israeli genocide in Gaza. The US media churns out an endless barrage of anti-Putin and anti-Russia venom, never mentioning that Zelensky also heads a completely despotic, corrupt regime which is sending Ukrainian men to war to die for the interests of both Ukrainian financial oligarchs and for their corporate and financial backers in the US. Netahayu is carrying out genocide in Gaza, but we never see his image in the msm with captions of Mass Murderer. So an entire atmosphere is being created, in which Russia is being cast as a pariah-beyond the pale state. this is also expressed by the numerous occasions in which Russian athletes are banned from participating in tournaments/sporting events, and Russian musicians/composers/artists are likewise banned from cultural events. The msm is attempting to acclimatise the population in the US, Western Europe and Australia to escalating NATO violence against the "evil state of Russia". In this context, claims that Russian culture is pareticulary cruel to animals - a ridicuolous claim without any historical analysis of how society in Russia developed over centuries - becomes another element in creating a whole picture in which Russia is the epitome of evil, while the uS and NATO are somehow concerned about "freedom and democracy". So until you take into account the contemporary political context, your criticism of me is empty of any meaningful content.

You sound disillusioned and unhappy. Or you may just be a Russian bot.

 

[IlovethePies]

You sound disillusioned and unhappy. Or you may just be a Russian bot.

Is that another sheep bleating in the distance?

 

[jathanas]

Is that another sheep bleating in the distance?

Yeah, we the sheeple are blind to things only apparent to you.

I suspect it's the 5G Bill Gates nanobots we were injected with during the pandemic.

You did well to escape but can't rest; the deep state is after you.

 

[Markfs]

Yeah, we the sheeple are blind to things only apparent to you.

I suspect it's the 5G Bill Gates nanobots we were injected with during the pandemic.

You did well to escape but can't rest; the deep state is after you.

cant you have a word with wipey to include him in the pyramid?.... he seems a little distraught and while i know that brings pleasure to the great poobah (or maybe thats poobar) maybe you can have a word with him.

 

[IlovethePies]

Yeah, we the sheeple are blind to things only apparent to you.

I suspect it's the 5G Bill Gates nanobots we were injected with during the pandemic.

You did well to escape but can't rest; the deep state is after you.

So you must be...an Australian bot (?) ...or maybe just an idi(b)ot, since you are making the same tiresome and false claims that I am a supporter of Russia

 

[gouki88]

I Like how rather than acknowledging the political context we all live in, you wrestle it back to an argument over concepts. We live in a political context in which mainstreamedia is pouring out an avalanche of anti-Putin and anti-Russia propaganda, promoting the lie that Russia is the new Nazi Germany and the main threat to world peace is Russia. The main threat to the world right now is US imperialism. It has deliberately provoked the war in Ukraine, and is backing the Israeli genocide in Gaza.

The US media churns out an endless barrage of anti-Putin and anti-Russia venom, never mentioning that Zelensky also heads a completely despotic, corrupt regime which is sending Ukrainian men to war to die for the interests of both Ukrainian financial oligarchs and for their corporate and financial backers in the US. Netahayu is carrying out genocide in Gaza, but we never see his image in the msm with captions of Mass Murderer. So an entire atmosphere is being created, in which Russia is being cast as a pariah-beyond the pale state. this is also expressed by the numerous occasions in which Russian athletes are banned from participating in tournaments/sporting events, and Russian musicians/composers/artists are likewise banned from cultural events.

The msm is attempting to acclimatise the population in the US, Western Europe and Australia to escalating NATO violence against the "evil state of Russia". In this context, claims that Russian culture is pareticulary cruel to animals - a ridicuolous claim without any historical analysis of how society in Russia developed over centuries - becomes another element in creating a whole picture in which Russia is the epitome of evil, while the uS and NATO are somehow concerned about "freedom and democracy". So until you take into account the contemporary political context, your criticism of me is empty of any meaningful content.

Oh dear... You were the one who tried to pivot to some dismissal of MC's points due to his supposed 'subjective idealist'. You then misunderstood his point completely in trying to portray the claim as being Russian nationality = inherently prone to animal cruelty.

Do you think it is just mainstream media which paints Putin in a poor light? Is he not to blame? For someone who apparently is critical of Putin, you are going to awful lengths to make his treatment out as some kind of witch hunt. Maybe rather than being surprised when people think so, you should be spend more time criticising him and less time calling his treatment unfair.

I don't think there is one sole "main" threat to world peace right now. Russian imperialism is one of them, as is that of the West. You seem to be particularly focused on some, rather than all.

It seems naive to ignore the history of the last 75 years when making these claims. It is not some sudden development that Russia is a bogeyman - that has been so for decades.

I think your point on supposed acclimatisation is a bit conspiracy-adjacent. Even so, that was not the context in which the claim was made - the claim was made because of the long history of reported animal cruelty in Russia. Trying to link that to an apparent collective effort by the MSM to prepare Australia for violence against Russia is... odd.

 

[jathanas]

So you must be...an Australian bot (?) ...or maybe just an idi(b)ot, since you are making the same tiresome and false claims that I am a supporter of Russia

You're not coming across as disenfranchised or as an ill-informed supporter of Russia.

As a matter of fact, who would have thought that a random guy on BF would know for a fact that:

"...that Zelensky also heads a completely despotic, corrupt regime which is sending Ukrainian men to war to die for the interests of both Ukrainian financial oligarchs and for their corporate and financial backers in the US..."

I was going to ask for your sources for the above but you sound compelling and authoritative. Thanks for the enlightenment and for showing us how to think about these topics.

 

[IlovethePies]

Oh dear... You were the one who tried to pivot to some dismissal of MC's points due to his supposed 'subjective idealist'. You then misunderstood his point completely in trying to portray the claim as being Russian nationality = inherently prone to animal cruelty.

Do you think it is just mainstream media which paints Putin in a poor light? Is he not to blame? For someone who apparently is critical of Putin, you are going to awful lengths to make his treatment out as some kind of witch hunt. Maybe rather than being surprised when people think so, you should be spend more time criticising him and less time calling his treatment unfair.

I don't think there is one sole "main" threat to world peace right now. Russian imperialism is one of them, as is that of the West. You seem to be particularly focused on some, rather than all.

It seems naive to ignore the history of the last 75 years when making these claims. It is not some sudden development that Russia is a bogeyman - that has been so for decades.

I think your point on supposed acclimatisation is a bit conspiracy-adjacent. Even so, that was not the context in which the claim was made - the claim was made because of the long history of reported animal cruelty in Russia. Trying to link that to an apparent collective effort by the MSM to prepare Australia for violence against Russia is... odd.

Oh dear... You were the one who tried to pivot to some dismissal of MC's points due to his supposed 'subjective idealist'. You then misunderstood his point completely in trying to portray the claim as being Russian nationality = inherently prone to animal cruelty.

Do you think it is just mainstream media which paints Putin in a poor light? Is he not to blame? For someone who apparently is critical of Putin, you are going to awful lengths to make his treatment out as some kind of witch hunt. Maybe rather than being surprised when people think so, you should be spend more time criticising him and less time calling his treatment unfair.

I don't think there is one sole "main" threat to world peace right now. Russian imperialism is one of the

You're not coming across as disenfranchised or as an ill-informed supporter of Russia.

As a matter of fact, who would have thought that a random guy on BF would know for a fact that:

"...that Zelensky also heads a completely despotic, corrupt regime which is sending Ukrainian men to war to die for the interests of both Ukrainian financial oligarchs and for their corporate and financial backers in the US..."

I was going to ask for your sources for the above but you sound compelling and authoritative. Thanks for the enlightenment and for showing us how to think about these topics.

If you are genuinely interested, I can provide you with ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime, which the Australian msm will never offer, because afterall Albo has already sent $1billion or more in military aid to Zelensky, and it would not look good if it turned out that Zelensky headed a corrupt dictatorship totally subservient to US corporate and financial interests.

 

[ZEV]

If you are genuinely interested, I can provide you with ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime, which the Australian msm will never offer, because afterall Albo has already sent $1billion or more in military aid to Zelensky, and it would not look good if it turned out that Zelensky headed a corrupt dictatorship totally subservient to US corporate and financial interests.

Yes please

 

[jathanas]

If you are genuinely interested, I can provide you with ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime, which the Australian msm will never offer, because afterall Albo has already sent $1billion or more in military aid to Zelensky, and it would not look good if it turned out that Zelensky headed a corrupt dictatorship totally subservient to US corporate and financial interests.

Please share your links and here's some fun reading right back at ya!

https://www.amazon.com.au/Putins-Kleptocracy-Karen-Dawisha/dp/1476795207

P.S: Corrupt dictatorship or not, Russia had no right to invade Ukraine. That's undeniable.

You are already too far gone if you oppose that view.

 

[gouki88]

If you are genuinely interested, I can provide you with ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime, which the Australian msm will never offer, because afterall Albo has already sent $1billion or more in military aid to Zelensky, and it would not look good if it turned out that Zelensky headed a corrupt dictatorship totally subservient to US corporate and financial interests.

Feel free. That doesn't, however, make the Ukrainian border invalid, does it?

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

If you are genuinely interested, I can provide you with ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime, which the Australian msm will never offer, because afterall Albo has already sent $1billion or more in military aid to Zelensky, and it would not look good if it turned out that Zelensky headed a corrupt dictatorship totally subservient to US corporate and financial interests.

Please provide this

My biz is about to make some of our edtech free to any Ukrainian

I want to know if it is going to a land run by thieving Nazi-lovers

 

[IlovethePies]

Please share your links and here's some fun reading right back at ya!

https://www.amazon.com.au/Putins-Kleptocracy-Karen-Dawisha/dp/1476795207

P.S: Corrupt dictatorship or not, Russia had no right to invade Ukraine. That's undeniable.

You are already too far gone if you oppose that view.

Again, if you did read what I have written, you will see that I have referenced Putin's invasion of Ukraine as criminal and barbaric.
I have made clear that I believe that Putin had absolutely no right to invade Ukraine.
But the US wanted this to occur, and created the conditions in which Putin would fall into their trap. The US wanted to goad Putin into invading Ukraine, and Putin obliged them.
The US has since 2014 very clearly been scheming to pressure Putin to such an extent that he would fall into their trap, by arming Ukraine, training its military, and seeking the integration of Ukraine into NATO. The US calculated that after the invasion, the Ukrainian fascist batallions - along with hundreds of thousands of conscripts to be utilised as cannon fodder - could gradually bleed Russia white in a war. The aim of the US and its NATO allies is to engineer a coup within Russia by pro-US elements, to overthrow Putin and set up a totally puppet US government which would agree to hand over to US corporations lock stock and barrel the vast resources of Russia. The US also aims to stir up nationalist sentiments in other areas of the Russian federation, to create insurrections which would split apart the Russian federation into a group of powerless mini-states, all of which would be completely dominated by US and NATO imperialist countries for raw materials. The Russian capitalists who support Putin's regime are an obstacle to the complete dominance and profit gouging of US and NATO imperialism, because they want their cut of the plunder. But the US and NATO want to get rid of the middleman.

 

[IlovethePies]

I just like bullying dumb tnucs. Happy to do it on my own


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The issue is, you have to be smarter than the dumb tnuc to succeed. Unfortunately, you are not.

 

[IlovethePies]

So China Bro has started his internship with you?

Nah, I dont do internships with anyone of minimal intelligence.

 

[gouki88]

Still awaiting "ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime".

I've seen images of fascist / Nazi iconography on display in the Ukrainian army camps, but I don't think Ukraine itself is particularly close to being equivalent to Nazi Germany

 

[IlovethePies]

Please provide this

My biz is about to make some of our edtech free to any Ukrainian

I want to know if it is going to a land run by thieving Nazi-lovers

OK, if this is the case, you should definitely read the links i will send.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Nah, I dont do internships with anyone of minimal intelligence.

The other interns don’t invite you for beers and tacos do they?

JB1975 experienced this

It’s why he became a history prof so the kids would have to hang around

 

[IlovethePies]

Still awaiting "ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime".

I've seen images of fascist / Nazi iconography on display in the Ukrainian army camps, but I don't think Ukraine itself is particularly close to being equivalent to Nazi Germany

Let me be clear. Nazi Germany was an imperialist state, armed with all the most modern and powerful military weaponry at the time, and based on an extremely dynamic economy. Ukraine has nothing in common with Nazi Germany, in the sense that it is an impoverished country, with a weak national economy, and with no aim to dominate Europe (as did Nazi Germany). However, during WW2, there were elements in the Ukraine who opposed the Russian Revolution and agreed with the ideology of fascism. They became collaborators with the Nazis in the Holocaust. The political descendants of these elements (Bandera, the OUN) are the neoNazis who are in Zelensky's government and who are also members of fascist militia (such as the Azov Batalliion). The US and NATO are in alliance with these NeoNazis. The US, Canada, Germany and France are training these forces, and arming them. The closest parallel to Nazi Germany in the current world is the US predominantly, and also its NATO allies. It is the first time, since the end of the second world war, that German panzers are operating in what was formerly Soviet territory. Those who most resemble Hitler today are NATO and the US.

 

[gouki88]

Let me be clear. Nazi Germany was an imperialist state, armed with all the most modern and powerful military weaponry at the time, and based on an extremely dynamic economy. Ukraine has nothing in common with Nazi Germany, in the sense that it is an impoverished country, with a weak national economy, and with no aim to dominate Europe (as did Nazi Germany). However, during WW2, there were elements in the Ukraine who opposed the Russian Revolution and agreed with the ideology of fascism. They became collaborators with the Nazis in the Holocaust. The political descendants of these elements (Bandera, the OUN) are the neoNazis who are in Zelensky's government and who are also members of fascist militia (such as the Azov Batalliion). The US and NATO are in alliance with these NeoNazis. The US, Canada, Germany and France are training these forces, and arming them. The closest parallel to Nazi Germany in the current world is the US predominantly, and also its NATO allies. It is the first time, since the end of the second world war, that German panzers are operating in what was formerly Soviet territory. Those who most resemble Hitler today are NATO and the US.

Man, really?

It's pretty flipping easy to be strongly opposed to the ills the US wreaks upon the world without thinking it & NATO resemble Hitler. Bloody hell.

 

[jathanas]

Again, if you did read what I have written, you will see that I have referenced Putin's invasion of Ukraine as criminal and barbaric.
I have made clear that I believe that Putin had absolutely no right to invade Ukraine.
But the US wanted this to occur, and created the conditions in which Putin would fall into their trap. The US wanted to goad Putin into invading Ukraine, and Putin obliged them.
The US has since 2014 very clearly been scheming to pressure Putin to such an extent that he would fall into their trap, by arming Ukraine, training its military, and seeking the integration of Ukraine into NATO. The US calculated that after the invasion, the Ukrainian fascist batallions - along with hundreds of thousands of conscripts to be utilised as cannon fodder - could gradually bleed Russia white in a war. The aim of the US and its NATO allies is to engineer a coup within Russia by pro-US elements, to overthrow Putin and set up a totally puppet US government which would agree to hand over to US corporations lock stock and barrel the vast resources of Russia. The US also aims to stir up nationalist sentiments in other areas of the Russian federation, to create insurrections which would split apart the Russian federation into a group of powerless mini-states, all of which would be completely dominated by US and NATO imperialist countries for raw materials. The Russian capitalists who support Putin's regime are an obstacle to the complete dominance and profit gouging of US and NATO imperialism, because they want their cut of the plunder. But the US and NATO want to get rid of the middleman.

I don't see the US as a benevolent actor, but the above analysis of their strategic objectives is almost impossible to take seriously.

cant you have a word with wipey to include him in the pyramid?.... he seems a little distraught and while i know that brings pleasure to the great poobah (or maybe thats poobar) maybe you can have a word with him.

Sadly, for all of us, Sidey and his cadre are at the top of the pyramid. Life is a b*tch.

 

[jathanas]

Nah, I dont do internships with anyone of minimal intelligence.

I think you're "Russia bro" not "China bro".

WalterBlaknWhte correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[IlovethePies]

A

Still awaiting "ample evidence of the criminal nature of the Zelensky regime".

I've seen images of fascist / Nazi iconography on display in the Ukrainian army camps, but I don't think Ukraine itself is particularly close to being equivalent to Nazi Germany

Doesn't the display of open Nazi iconography in the Ukrainian military disturb you, and maybe incite you to do further research into the underpinnings of your own understanding of world reality?