All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

What you think is not necessarily reality at all. You are a subjective idealist: you think your opinions and thoughts are the ultimate reality. Sorry MC, subjective idealism has long ago proven to be a bankrupt philosophy.
Cruelty to animals is not a product of nationality. To claim such a thing is absurd, and extremely dangerous. Soon you will be supporting nuclear war against Russia because Russians aren't kind to animals.

That has got to be one of the silliest things I've read. I don't support nuclear war against anyone.

I do support nations defending themselves vigorously against Russian aggression.

And I will say what I like about the infected Russian mindset currently besetting much of the population of that country, whether its about cruelty to animals or otherwise.

You see, one of the other fundamental features of your beloved Russkiy Mir that has been a huge part of it's recent devolution is an manic demonisation of the LGBT community. Most of the issues faced by people like me in the Western world spring from Russian thought and inflience, being taken up by Christofascist groups in Western nations but in coordination with Russian entities.

In your Russkiy Mir, I would be living in hiding if lucky, if not rounded up.

On the list of people to be taken to concentration and flitration camps in Ukraine planned with the invasion were prominent members of the LGBT community.

So I'm not interested in your word play, your pathetic attempts at misdirectinon, or your confected outrage. your bosom buddies are an exsitential threat to me and people like me. And I am heartily tired of that shit.

My only hope is the West can get its ****ing act together enough to at least stop the tide of evil and hatred to spread beyond the current borders of Russia. But I have my doubnts.

But perhaps you will forgive me for being rude, but as I see you as an apologist for people who literally want me dead, what I would most like you and all your vatnik pals to do is this.

**** off.

Keep on ****ing off.

**** off until you reach a gate with a big sign on it saying "you cant possibly **** off beyond here"

Climb the gate, dream the impossible dream, and **** right off into eternity.

 

[IlovethePies]

I only noticed the girl Horse

Are you a virgin, then/?
(No judgement)

That has got to be one of the silliest things I've read. I don't support nuclear war against anyone.

I do support nations defending themselves vigorously against Russian aggression.

And I will say what I like about the infected Russian mindset currently besetting much of the population of that country, whether its about cruelty to animals or otherwise.

You see, one of the other fundamental features of your beloved Russkiy Mir that has been a huge part of it's recent devolution is an manic demonisation of the LGBT community. Most of the issues faced by people like me in the Western world spring from Russian thought and inflience, being taken up by Christofascist groups in Western nations but in coordination with Russian entities.

In your Russkiy Mir, I would be living in hiding if lucky, if not rounded up.

On the list of people to be taken to concentration and flitration camps in Ukraine planned with the invasion were prominent members of the LGBT community.

So I'm not interested in your word play, your pathetic attempts at misdirectinon, or your confected outrage. your bosom buddies are an exsitential threat to me and people like me. And I am heartily tired of that shit.

My only hope is the West can get its ****ing act together enough to at least stop the tide of evil and hatred to spread beyond the current borders of Russia. But I have my doubnts.

But perhaps you will forgive me for being rude, but as I see you as an apologist for people who literally want me dead, what I would most like you and all your vatnik pals to do is this.

**** off.

Keep on ****ing off.

** off until you reach a gate with a big sign on it saying "you cant possibly ** off beyond here"

Climb the gate, dream the impossible dream, and **** right off into eternity.

Yes, you are extremely rude, and once again, your opinions are not conforming with reality. I defend all LGBT people, and I have no idea why you think I dont, or would be an apologist for those who hate LGBT people. That is an anathema to me, just as racism is an anathema to me.

I am opposed to Putin and his tyrannical regime, as i have said many times. I am opposed also to the Zelensky regime, which is populated by fascists, many of whom would want LGBT people dead.

Your outburst here is completely unwarranted, simply because I opposed your subjective idea that cruelty to animals is endemic to the "Russian soul".

You said above that you want the West to get its act together and stop the tide of evil and hatred coming from Russia. As I type this, NATO is already planning to send soldiers to Ukraine, and is discussing the use of nuclear weapons. If you keep on your current track, you will end up supporting the use of nuclear weapons against Russia, even if you now think that is impossible, because you are caught up in all the propaganda that Russia is the evil empire and Russia is the only problem.

The problem is that there is a nation state system of rival nations each attempting to seize markets and raw materials. The US is the main predator, and is doing everything in its power to convince the world that Putin is the same as Hitler, that Russia is evil and that Russia must be stopped/subjugated. If you cant see the logic of where that is going....so be it.

 

[JB1975]

Music festival no surprise that it went ahead - it had a peace motif, many raves and dance parties in Israel, had the happiest youth in the world (Gallup survey from memory)

The neighbouring kibbutzes included many Israelis (and others) who were pro-Palestinian / 2-state solution

Many Israelis there ferried Palestinians to hospital appointments etc and employed them

This was a naive, peace-loving group in many cases


On IDF, many were supposedly on longer deployments to the north

The fence protection was digital, requiring less people monitors

But an analogue solution of spray paint defeated digital cameras

The peace vibe of the ravers and their naïveté shouldn’t have been a factor. Events like that require authority, and it should have been denied.

I was given to understand that, rather than a long deployment north, forces in the south were moved only weeks earlier.

In any case, we’re talking about a momentous failure.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

Are you a virgin, then/?
(No judgement)

Yes, you are extremely rude, and once again, your opinions are not conforming with reality. I defend all LGBT people, and I have no idea why you think I dont, or would be an apologist for those who hate LGBT people. That is an anathema to me, just as racism is an anathema to me.

I am opposed to Putin and his tyrannical regime, as i have said many times. I am opposed also to the Zelensky regime, which is populated by fascists, many of whom would want LGBT people dead.

Your outburst here is completely unwarranted, simply because I opposed your subjective idea that cruelty to animals is endemic to the "Russian soul".

You said above that you want the West to get its act together and stop the tide of evil and hatred coming from Russia. As I type this, NATO is already planning to send soldiers to Ukraine, and is discussing the use of nuclear weapons. If you keep on your current track, you will end up supporting the use of nuclear weapons against Russia, even if you now think that is impossible, because you are caught up in all the propaganda that Russia is the evil empire and Russia is the only problem.

The problem is that there is a nation state system of rival nations each attempting to seize markets and raw materials. The US is the main predator, and is doing everything in its power to convince the world that Putin is the same as Hitler, that Russia is evil and that Russia must be stopped/subjugated. If you cant see the logic of where that is going....so be it.

Drawing parallels between the Russian and Ukrainian regimes is completely divorced from reality. you are the one living in a wold of your own creation, in order to square the circle of the cognitive dissonance in your belief system. Your weird insistence that the government there is fascist or whatever is no more or less that Russian propaganda, which you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

Pride parade was celebrated in Kyiv this week. Cant see that happening in Moscow any time soon.

Pride being celebrated in Moscow is more likely than the US deploying ground troops, or nuclear weapons. In fact, the US response to a tactical nuke use by Russia would not even be nuclear, it would be conventional.

In case it hasnt penetrated into the bunker in which you live, the current US administration is massively, hopelessly addicted to deescalation. I bet Zelenskiy wishes he was an US stooge. The slow rolling of support, ridiculpus delay in providing needed weapons systems (HIMARS, ATACAMS, Abrams, F-16's) the red lines placed on use of weapons has been nothing shorts of a boon to Russia. There are times I wonder if the US NSA Sullivan is a Russian asset he has been so obsessed in deeescalation, ignoring the fact the only way to get Russia to deescalate is force.

And the streak of cruelty in the Russian psyche is a trope so old and so widely recounted (and accepted by Russians), you cannot possibly think I am saying anything new.

You are a fantasist, someone who exists in a theoretical world of your own creation. Enjoy it. Just dont expect me to live in it, or to do anything other than vomit whenever I see you reproduce it.

 

[IlovethePies]

Drawing parallels between the Russian and Ukrainian regimes is completely divorced from reality. you are the one living in a wold of your own creation, in order to square the circle of the cognitive dissonance in your belief system. Your weird insistence that the government there is fascist or whatever is no more or less that Russian propaganda, which you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

Pride parade was celebrated in Kyiv this week. Cant see that happening in Moscow any time soon.

Pride being celebrated in Moscow is more likely than the US deploying ground troops, or nuclear weapons. In fact, the US response to a tactical nuke use by Russia would not even be nuclear, it would be conventional.

In case it hasnt penetrated into the bunker in which you live, the current US administration is massively, hopelessly addicted to deescalation. I bet Zelenskiy wishes he was an US stooge. The slow rolling of support, ridiculpus delay in providing needed weapons systems (HIMARS, ATACAMS, Abrams, F-16's) the red lines placed on use of weapons has been nothing shorts of a boon to Russia. There are times I wonder if the US NSA Sullivan is a Russian asset he has been so obsessed in deeescalation, ignoring the fact the only way to get Russia to deescalate is force.

And the streak of cruelty in the Russian psyche is a trope so old and so widely recounted (and accepted by Russians), you cannot possibly think I am saying anything new.

You are a fantasist, someone who exists in a theoretical world of your own creation. Enjoy it. Just dont expect me to live in it, or to do anything other than vomit whenever I see you reproduce it.

I am sorry, but everything you have written above is utterly reactionary and divorced from reality. Yes, the Gay pride celebration might have occurred in Kiev, but that does not alter the fact that Neo-Nazis are in key positions in the Zelensky regime, whether you believe that or not. It does not alter the fact that the Ukrainian military is permeated by Neo-Nazis who hate Russians and Jews, and likewise gay men/women.
To claim that the US is seeking de-escalation shows that you are completely clueless about the current geopolitical reality.
As I said, if you continue along with your current views, you will find yourself very quickly supporting NATO aggession against Russia.
Putin has repeatedly declared that if his regime feels existentially threatened, it will resort to nuclear weapons.
To claim that the US will respond to nuclear weapons with conventional weapons as a certainty, is borderline an insane assemssment.
Defence of LGBT rights, defence of all nationalities and races is only possible by unifying workers of all nationalities. Sexual orientation, ethnic background are not factors in history. The struggle between classes is the driving force of history, and the working class defends all democratic rights. Capitalist governments throughout the world deliberately stoke up divisions based on gender, race, sexual orientation to divide and rule.

 

[IlovethePies]

...and finally, there is every reason to draw parallels between Zelensky's regime and Putin's.
Ukraine is a dictatoraship where all those who oppose the war are thrown in prison and often tortured. Lawyers are too scared to defend them, because they would then have to fear for their lives.
All elections have been banned in Ukraine, and all opposition parties have been banned as well.
Bands of fascists roam the streets searching out young men to force into the army as cannon fodder.
Zelensky's wife spends millions of dollars in Paris luxury stores while the workers in Ukraine suffer on poverty level wages and lose their loved ones in the bloodbath.
Ukrainian financial oligarchy is a kleptocracy, a corrupt and parasitic layer which parallels the Russian financial oligarchy. Putin and Zelensky repesent the Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs respectively, all of whom emerged after the liquidation of the Soviet Union, when they looted all the nationalised property.
Zelensky is the US proxy for war against Russia. If the war is not stopped, it will inevitably lead to a nuclear armagedon.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

The peace vibe of the ravers and their naïveté shouldn’t have been a factor. Events like that require authority, and it should have been denied.

Why would they deny the music festival? (aside from hindsight of outcome). Israel had heaps of festivals. The country is small - you are near borders and danger nearly everywhere. The popular culture, especially youth, was/is live now. The southern kibbutz area was part of Israel where there was regular positive connectedness with Gaza.


Senior IDF / pollies / intelligence were duped by Sinwar (a brilliant military strategist and student of Israel)


This from Reuters a few days after the Hamas attack on Israel (my bold):

The restraint shown by Hamas (in the 3 years preceding attack) drew public criticism from some supporters, again aimed at building an impression that Hamas had economic concerns not a new war on its mind, the source said.

In the West Bank, controlled by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah group, there were those who mocked Hamas for going quiet. In one Fatah statement published in June 2022, the group accused Hamas leaders of fleeing to Arab capitals to live in "luxurious hotels and villas" leaving their people to poverty in Gaza.

A second Israeli security source said there was a period when Israel believed the movement's leader in Gaza, Yahya Al-Sinwar, was preoccupied with managing Gaza "rather than killing Jews". At the same time, Israel turned its focus away from Hamas as it pushed for a deal to normalise relations with Saudi Arabia, he added.

Israel has long prided itself on its ability to infiltrate and monitor Islamist groups. As a consequence, the source close to Hamas said, a crucial part of the plan was to avoid leaks. Many Hamas leaders were unaware of the plans and, while training, the 1,000 fighters deployed in the assault had no inkling of the exact purpose of the exercises, the source added.


It is highly unlikely that there was a conspiracy by the Israelis to facilitate the Hamas attack. They were outplayed by Sinwar. And that's part of why they now want to kill him (remembering Israel saved his life in prison with brain surgery).

 

[JB1975]

Why would they deny the music festival? (aside from hindsight of outcome). Israel had heaps of festivals. The country is small - you are near borders and danger nearly everywhere. The popular culture, especially youth, was/is live now. The southern kibbutz area was part of Israel where there was regular positive connectedness with Gaza.


Senior IDF / pollies / intelligence were duped by Sinwar (a brilliant military strategist and student of Israel)


This from Reuters a few days after the Hamas attack on Israel (my bold):

The restraint shown by Hamas (in the 3 years preceding attack) drew public criticism from some supporters, again aimed at building an impression that Hamas had economic concerns not a new war on its mind, the source said.

In the West Bank, controlled by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah group, there were those who mocked Hamas for going quiet. In one Fatah statement published in June 2022, the group accused Hamas leaders of fleeing to Arab capitals to live in "luxurious hotels and villas" leaving their people to poverty in Gaza.

A second Israeli security source said there was a period when Israel believed the movement's leader in Gaza, Yahya Al-Sinwar, was preoccupied with managing Gaza "rather than killing Jews". At the same time, Israel turned its focus away from Hamas as it pushed for a deal to normalise relations with Saudi Arabia, he added.

Israel has long prided itself on its ability to infiltrate and monitor Islamist groups. As a consequence, the source close to Hamas said, a crucial part of the plan was to avoid leaks. Many Hamas leaders were unaware of the plans and, while training, the 1,000 fighters deployed in the assault had no inkling of the exact purpose of the exercises, the source added.


It is highly unlikely that there was a conspiracy by the Israelis to facilitate the Hamas attack. They were outplayed by Sinwar. And that's part of why they now want to kill him (remembering Israel saved his life in prison with brain surgery).

I would have thought that the strong possibility of an attack in that area would be a good reason to stop it going ahead. Again, the intelligence from the Gaza division seemed quite concerned about it all at the time, no hindsight required.

It might be that Hamas leaders were unaware of the training, but US and Israeli intelligence were aware of it.

Edit II: There had been discussion about moving the festival, but this was apparently shut down. As small as Israel is, the festival is only about 5km from the border.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/key-idf-officer-reportedly-voiced-concern-about-nova-festival-but-was-told-to-ok-it/

While Netanyahu has supported Hamas and squeezed the Palestinian Authority, I'm not suggesting an Israeli conspiracy to facilitate the Hamas attack.

All due kudos to Hamas for their deceptions, but it isn't a full explanation.

EDIT: A quote from a random BBC article alludes to the same thing which interests me:

Hugh Lovatt, a Middle East analyst at the European Council on Foreign Relations, said Israel would have been aware of the joint training drills but "reached the wrong conclusion", assessing they amounted to the "standard" activity of paramilitary groups in the Palestinian territories, rather than being "indicative of a looming large-scale attack".

I'm not a security person. But I do know what sort of surveillance is performed in Gaza and so I'm pretty interested in how they 'reached the wrong conclusion'.

 

[Chameleon75]

Biden was at the white house influencers dinner and was being asked some questions by a tik toker filming on his phone, he was asked a question about his red line in Gaza and got quite agitated. He threatened to grab the phone and throw it and then proceeded to tell the influencer that his still got a strong arm.

After composing myself from the comic relief of Biden trying to convince people that he’s still got it athletically, it dawned on me, influencers dinner wtf? I think that might be peak stupid.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I would have thought that the strong possibility of an attack in that area would be a good reason to stop it going ahead. Again, the intelligence from the Gaza division seemed quite concerned about it all at the time, no hindsight required.

It might be that Hamas leaders were unaware of the training, but US and Israeli intelligence were aware of it.

Edit II: There had been discussion about moving the festival, but this was apparently shut down. As small as Israel is, the festival is about 10km from the border.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/key-idf-officer-reportedly-voiced-concern-about-nova-festival-but-was-told-to-ok-it/

A few other things. It's clear that Netanyahu has supported Hamas whilst squeezing the Palestinian Authority. Despite that, I'm not suggesting an Israeli conspiracy to facilitate the Hamas attack.

All due kudos to Hamas for their deceptions, but it isn't a full explanation.

EDIT: A quote from a random BBC article alludes to the same thing which interests me:

Hugh Lovatt, a Middle East analyst at the European Council on Foreign Relations, said Israel would have been aware of the joint training drills but "reached the wrong conclusion", assessing they amounted to the "standard" activity of paramilitary groups in the Palestinian territories, rather than being "indicative of a looming large-scale attack".

I'm not a security person. But I do know what sort of surveillance is performed in Gaza and so I'm pretty interested in how they 'reached the wrong conclusion'.

Wrong conclusions are frequent in intelligence and military affairs

There were repeated feints from Hamas with no follow through

Israel has multiple feints and attacks from Hezbollah (and many cyber attacks from Iran)

Its embassies have multiple threats each year

Vigilance eventually fails on something - this was on a massive attack though

(As would Iran’s 300 or so missiles without Iron Dome etc)

 

[JB1975]

Wrong conclusions are frequent in intelligence and military affairs

There were repeated feints from Hamas with no follow through

Israel has multiple feints and attacks from Hezbollah (and many cyber attacks from Iran)

Its embassies have multiple threats each year

Vigilance eventually fails on something - this was on a massive attack though

(As would Iran’s 300 or so missiles without Iron Dome etc)

Hell of a failure, that's for sure.

 

[gouki88]

What you think is not necessarily reality at all. You are a subjective idealist: you think your opinions and thoughts are the ultimate reality. Sorry MC, subjective idealism has long ago proven to be a bankrupt philosophy.
Cruelty to animals is not a product of nationality. To claim such a thing is absurd, and extremely dangerous. Soon you will be supporting nuclear war against Russia because Russians aren't kind to animals.

I like how rather than engaging with what was written in a post, you wrestle it back to regurgitating things about a concept you've read a page on. MC was, quite obviously, talking about predominant elements of Russian culture.

 

[sideswipe]

Defence of LGBT rights, defence of all nationalities and races is only possible by unifying workers of all nationalities. Sexual orientation, ethnic background are not factors in history. The struggle between classes is the driving force of history, and the working class defends all democratic rights. Capitalist governments throughout the world deliberately stoke up divisions based on gender, race, sexual orientation to divide and rule.

Think might just be my favourite piece of your craziness. So socialist governments and unions are the defenders of LGBT rights?

Maybe get Johnny Setka to the next Mardi Gras? You know his float would be well-built.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Think might just be my favourite piece of your craziness. So socialist governments and unions are the defenders of LGBT rights?

Maybe get Johnny Setka to the next Mardi Gras? You know his float would be well-built.

Given China Bro is likely being performance managed in his cubicle right now

Why don’t you give him some work experience?

By day 3 he’d see clients like baby gazelles separated from their herd

 

[sideswipe]

Given China Bro is likely being performance managed in his cubicle right now

Why don’t you give him some work experience?

By day 3 he’d see clients like baby gazelles separated from their herd

Do you reckon he has a cubicle? Because everyone knows that Cubicles are for Closers.

 

[sr36]

The peace vibe of the ravers and their naïveté shouldn’t have been a factor. Events like that require authority, and it should have been denied.

I was given to understand that, rather than a long deployment north, forces in the south were moved only weeks earlier.

In any case, we’re talking about a momentous failure.

Without knowing anything about Israeli bureaucracy, event rubber stampers might not be that connected with military intelligence and assume that security is in order unless told otherwise.

 

[Markfs]

The UN under one of its many bodies, has released another report. This time questioning the methods of the Israeli military.

"“Israel’s choices of methods and means of conducting hostilities in Gaza since 7 October, including through the extensive use of explosive weapons with wide area effects in densely populated areas, have failed to ensure that they effectively distinguish between civilians and fighters."

It's not really worth discussing the report. Everyone knows the methods and the reasons. Those who support israel either shrug their shoulders or say that the palestinians are all hamas anyway.

If the report does anything, it will strengthen the israeli strategy of starving the palestinians in gaza. So the real question rests with how the palestinians want to die.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/ohchr-thematic-report-indiscriminate-attacks-in-gaza-19jun24/#:~:text=The%20UN%20Human%20Rights%20Office,respect%20to%20the%20principles%20of

 

[Markfs]

I was just reading the Age today - for free I should say. An article about seinfeld. Whatever people might say about the uselessness of the protests, it did highlight that seinfeld went to a training camp in the west bank a few years ago, to practice shooting palestinians "terrorists". Not really surprising for him.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I was just reading the Age today - for free I should say. An article about seinfeld. Whatever people might say about the uselessness of the protests, it did highlight that seinfeld went to a training camp in the west bank a few years ago, to practice shooting palestinians "terrorists". Not really surprising for him.

saw Jerry perform Monday night

very funny

couple of Palestinian protestors yelled

Jerry thought they were laughing earlier at his jokes

he didn’t have a gun to shoot the protesters

seems like his training was a waste of time

 

[sr36]

I was just reading the Age today - for free I should say. An article about seinfeld. Whatever people might say about the uselessness of the protests, it did highlight that seinfeld went to a training camp in the west bank a few years ago, to practice shooting palestinians "terrorists". Not really surprising for him.

Has Sienfeld ever been political. Just a fun day of shooting guns with your family. It's the American dream.

 

[Markfs]

saw Jerry perform Monday night

very funny

couple of Palestinian protestors yelled

Jerry thought they were laughing earlier at his jokes

he didn’t have a gun to shoot the protesters

seems like his training was a waste of time

Has Sienfeld ever been political. Just a fun day of shooting guns with your family. It's the American dream.

Probably at a similar level to Elon's visit to auschwitz. I'm sure both you guys know that you have to tip your hats to the people who can open the doors....

Not that elon and seinfeld are similar. I think seinfeld is philosophically in tune, while it is more a "bringing to heel" moment for elon.

 

[Markfs]

The Age reports that the famous gaza pier is going to be dismantled soon. The $350 million pier has won prizes for being a payday for the private sector. However, it's done its job and it seems that the worst is over for the netinyahoo and biden gov'ts on the humanitarian front. Hopefully with less media in gaza, the palestinians will be allowed to die quietly and deliver the outcome that the israelis want.

Meanwhile, the various israeli players are flexing their muscles with the view to taking over from netinyahoo, buoyed by thoughts of a "free ride" on the horizon with the probable trump election win. The other benny has been a player for a while, but the military is wanting to re-assert its position as the most moral in the world. At first glance, the IDF painting hamas aspirations identical to those of mainstream palestinians, would seem to give the impression that there is little chance of cutting out the hamas sore from palestinians society. But it's hardly a simpathetic view to the palestinians in the long run. To me it seems a philosophy that the end game needs to be more a "total solution". I could argue that while the netty strategy of cutting out hamas is portrayed as an extreme right wing one, it's probably more sympathetic that the view that 2 million palestinians have to be disposed of in some way.

 

[JB1975]

Without knowing anything about Israeli bureaucracy, event rubber stampers might not be that connected with military intelligence and assume that security is in order unless told otherwise.

Definite possibility.

 

[Markfs]

I find it's time to look at the polls. In israel, it seems that it's a question of which tv station you believe. One has netty down by 10 seats and the other has benny down by 10 seats. So it seems that it's a TV war and you can see offshoots from both that have headlines with netty having little support, and others that have him beating benny.

whatever the opinion of those two, most israelis want control over gaza post war and the continued pursuit of the revenge strategy. Not much to see here.

in the US, Fox says that israeli support has dropped from 70% to 60%. It's unbelievable when you see it like that. The figures are supported by Gallop figures that indicate similar levels of support for israel and a similar fall. Interesting, there is a lowering of support for palestinians since the october drama.

It seems generally that israeli interests would be reasonably happy with these outcomes. You could argue that young people in the US have less support for Israel, but I would argue that over time and as they get older and get into the workforce, they will take at least a neutral view and support the military support of israel etc.

 

[IlovethePies]

Think might just be my favourite piece of your craziness. So socialist governments and unions are the defenders of LGBT rights?

Maybe get Johnny Setka to the next Mardi Gras? You know his float would be well-built.

Your posts aiming at belittling me are always characterised by the false assumptions you make. The false assumptions I can only guess are driven by one of two possiblities: you don't actually read anything i write, but just join the bandwagon because it is fun to belong somewhere - even if it is just a herd of sheep - or you do read it, and don't understand a word of it. I am guessing the former is the case, because you strike ne as being particularly conformist and mean spirited in the way you approach anyone whose views are at odds with your own.

I have made clear numerous times that the Putin government, and the other communist governments (as in China, and in the former Warsaw pact) had absolutely no connection with genuine socialism. So no, I have never claimed that any existing government in either Eastern Europe, Russia or China defends LGBT rights.
What is true however is that genuine socialism does defend LGBT rights, because genuine socialism is based on defending all democratic rights. There is no genuine socialist government on the planet, because genuine socialism requires a world planned economy, which has never existed in human history. However, there does exist a genuine socialist movement, even if you don't realise it.

I understand that what i have just written is completely outside the narrow framework in which your mind operates, and so I am ready for your next broadside of mockery, which no doubt all the other bros in this thread (ie the rest of the herd) will participate in so they can feel extra happy about themselves.