Play Nice AFL Womens - General Discussion

[Carn The Berries]

When you have players getting paid decent money despite having played less than 20 games or only just taking up the sport I think it's a bit rich to be having a whinge already and demanding things.

It will all start sorting itself out when we get a better idea of what the standard of product can be long term v now.

As it is that's all still unknown and you don't want to kill the brand so early on by creating situations where the visuals of the game appear to go backwards.

I haven't heard anyone demanding anything that they weren't getting last year... They just (quite rightly IMO) don't want the number of H&A games reduced because it works better for a broadcaster.

Limiting games to protect the "visuals" of the game is completely contradicted by adding 2 extra teams and diluting the talent pool....

 

[jatz14]

When you have players getting paid decent money despite having played less than 20 games or only just taking up the sport I think it's a bit rich to be having a whinge already and demanding things.

It will all start sorting itself out when we get a better idea of what the standard of product can be long term v now.

As it is that's all still unknown and you don't want to kill the brand so early on by creating situations where the visuals of the game appear to go backwards.

Having 3 more rounds doesnt affect the visuals. Even Daisy Pearce has said, with the limited game time and training time they get, the first few games a club plays tend to be poorer, and the standard improves as the season goes on. If the standard is poor, thats a reason for more, not less, ironically, especially if the extra scrappy first game or 2 are not broadcast. Both seasons, the first game of the year has been about the worst, and this is the game with the most hype.

 

[hcd199]

The issue for the league is that while AFLW exists and is operating, it is still in its initial operating capacity with some ways to go before it reaches final. At this stage getting it on TV - especially FTA coverage - is vital to growing the womens game as visibility is a key driver in young girls and women joining the sport. If they cant see it and coverage gets buried under the male winter sports - AFL, Rugby league in particular, not to mention the summer Big Bash and Tennis coverage - then theres almost no reason to have the national comp.

If coverage (especially on FTA) were so integral, surely they'd just continue providing the rights free of charge/at a reduced rate/to another broadcaster? It makes no sense to charge for the rights, and then cave in to broadcaster demands at the expense of competitive integrity, if exposure is the primary goal of establishing a national competition at this stage.

Chasing "clean air" in the sporting calendar is a fools' errand, IMO; as has been mentioned, pre-season AFL games start within a couple of weeks of the AFLW, and the BBL is encroaching onto those first few weeks now too (GF is on 17th February this year, so ~R3/R4 even in a 6-week AFLW "season" with two weeks' finals). Besides, even if it's accepted that the promotional opportunities are best only in that two-month window, why not run the competition properly but with reduced coverage in busier weeks? That could even be part of the TV rights deal (free rights to the January rounds if you're paying to cover it properly come February), and the fixturing (put Carl v Coll and the GF re-match in the first "clean" week of the season) - and if not, live-streaming akin to what the WBBL does helps keep existing fans on-side before the "growth" rounds get given wider exposure in the "cleaner" weeks.

The bottom line is, if the AFL has so little confidence in the AFLW that they think it can't compete with literally any other sport, then they should shut the whole venture down now, and revert to exhibition games only. Given they've underestimated its potential popularity before, there's a good chance that they're doing so again here; if nothing else, this being the only season with 10 teams, surely a slightly longer season is worth a shot now?

 

[A_F_L_Media]

Do I give a crap about AFLW? No, of course not. It was cool for a fortnight but is now a ratings desert.
But will I jump on board an AFLW issue if there are browser clicks and social media likes in it for me? Umm F#@% YES.
The fixture is a massive slap in the face not just to women, but also to men considering becoming women. Shame on you AFL for slapping women in the face. Neanderthals!

 

[Kwality]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/womens-afl/comment-why-afl-is-in-danger-of-letting-golden-egg-slip-in-just-two-seasons/news-story/4da35031a33082caf3075f8f4aa5b89b
The next step for the AFL is a rapid-fire expansion, with the competition jumping from eight to 14 teams over the space of two years.

Unfortunately, its ambition to take over the female sporting landscape appears to be at odds with its willingness to back in its own product.

Not much doubt the AFL are looking to dominate the female sporting landscape IMHO, just don't seem to have a plan to reach the top & stay there.
I'd suggest their preference is to duplicate the AFL comp (all teams) but know there isn't the talent pool (same as the blokes) - I can see the WBBL dominating the female games this summer.

 

[Cold Sober]

If a network puts a new show on and it's not up to it, they axe it. If it's not up to scratch, gonski, majority wins.

 

[Farm Boy]

If a network puts a new show on and it's not up to it, they axe it. If it's not up to scratch, gonski, majority wins.

The majority of us want you banned from big footy - because you are not up to it and should be axed. Yet you are still here. The majority does not always win.

 

[Cold Sober]

The majority of us want you banned from big footy - because you are not up to it and should be axed. Yet you are still here. The majority does not always win.

My old mate Cow breath, how are the teats hanging, bit of a drought up our way too, or should that be ME TOO.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I reckon it's starting to dawn on the AFL that they made a big mistake by entering gender politics.

 

[Teen Wolf]

I reckon it's starting to dawn on the AFL that they made a big mistake by entering gender politics.

Took them 120 years, but better late than never!

 

[jatz14]

If a network puts a new show on and it's not up to it, they axe it. If it's not up to scratch, gonski, majority wins.

The number NOT watching a new show is ALWAYS the majority. The AFL grand final is not watched by the majority, so this means you think it should be gone? Or are you happy for the minority to have a win here.

You set a simple test, and there will be a simple answer. It's canned, or it's not.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Snake_Baker]

Took them 120 years, but better late than never!

No one was stopping women playing football beforehand.

It's just that no one would walk across the road to watch it until it was clamped on to the men's clubs.

 

[BringBackTorps]

No point expanding the length of the comp yet until the standard of football warrants it. [All experts said the average standard rose in 2018]By the end of six game season a lot of players fitness and skill levels were to be honest terrible.[No] Adding an extra two games on top of that will just mean the quality of product will be just as low or lower.[Doubtful]
Don't put the cart before the horse[You really want the "horse" to be put down].

The general AFLW skill levels are OK, general fitness is good -& both continue to improve. Experts are predicting the new players recruited from elite U18 female comps. into the 2019 AFLW will be the best crop of teenage players ever seen in Aust. The experienced AFLW players will benefit from the additional training/coaching they are receiving each year. Don't compare women's sport to men's.
You continuously make disparaging remarks about the AFLW -if you don't like it, thats fine: Don't watch!

Crowds, averaging c.6500 per game, are probably second highest in the world for a female, stand-alone H & A non-international comp.

Except for the first 2 games at Princes Park in 2018, & games affected by rain or strong heat, the games have generally been entertaining with adequate scoring (women can't kick as far as men, games go for about 60% of an AFL game). Due to the good spectacle, fans keep returning to watch the AFLW, & get their summer footy fix.
Ratings are better than the men's A League, & are good for a comp. which is only 2 years old (& games often start in the afternoon, which is not Prime time for Ratings)

The AFLW will only get bigger each year. The introduction of Richmond, Essendon, WC, Hawthorn etc. will further turbocharge it.
GR female AF numbers will boom again in 2018 -competiition participants possibly rise by about 30%

You have previously on BF:-

. said female AF is a "fad", & is likely to be a short term phenomenon.
. complained about female AF growing, taking females from other sports -including your own preferred female Gaelic football in Australia.
. made false claims about what AFLW players are seeking/"demanding" re remuneration.
. said the AFLW should not have started in 2017 -just keep developing State Leagues
. made vile, unsubstantiated hearsay claims about the alleged behaviour of some females towards Club team mates (which, in the unlikely event they were true, would destroy club culture & harmony)
. said, absurdly, AF does not need physical courage to play
. implied Gaelic Hurling needs more courage to play than AF

You are trolling the AFLW.

You clearly demonstrate that your preferred Gaelic sport (s) in Australia feel threatened by it. This fear is warranted, given how fast & strongly female AF is growing. I suggest you get used to it- & more Irish Gaelic stars will want to play in the AFLW, like Staunton. It will probably become the biggest female sport in Australia, on most metrics -&, after being discriminated against since 1919, has only been significantly promoted/ funded for about 3 years. McLachlan said last week "There is nothing more important to us than the AFLW".

And fortunate AF fans, in increasing nos., can get a keenly anticipated summer footy fix by watching very courageous women play our great Australian game on balmy summer evenings ...often played at ol' footy grounds, which adds to the enjoyment for many.

EDIT:

Robinson's misguided H/Sun article below stated female GR AF participants have risen to 500,000 "this year" (in 2017, Registered participants were c.450,000. The "fad" juggernaut ain't stopping!)

 

[Snake_Baker]

Crowds, averaging c.6500 per game........

Purely based on the back of the fact that women's football was picked up by AFL clubs.

There wouldn't be 65 at the games if they didn't attract fans due to AFL club branding.

 

[Teen Wolf]

No one was stopping women playing football beforehand.

It's just that no one would walk across the road to watch it until it was clamped on to the men's clubs.

Yeah the AFL clubs getting involved with women's football is a good thing, I agree.

 

[Cold Sober]

The number NOT watching a new show is ALWAYS the majority. The AFL grand final is not watched by the majority, so this means you think it should be gone? Or are you happy for the minority to have a win here.

You set a simple test, and there will be a simple answer. It's canned, or it's not.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

your'e a woman, I'm a man, my opinion doesn't count, you win. Mate the majority doesnt win any argument in my country anymore. Can't believe I used the word majority.

 

[The_Wookie]

CAN we have a discussion about women’s footy, the positives and negatives, without being accused of being misogynist, sexist or dismissive?

Good.

The goodwill produced two years ago, when the AFLW competition burst on to the football calendar and into the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands of girls and young women, is under siege from multiple angles.

It was over-hyped from the start, arguably underfunded, the product was poor and the AFL is largely to blame because it bit off more than it could chew.

Now the AFL wants restraint and the players want progression.

It is a mess. Spotfires are now bushfires.

Just 2½ years after that glorious night in Carlton to launch the women’s game, the AFL is being accused of insulting the players and running a “mickey mouse’’ and “gimmicky’’ competition.

This is not a “be grateful’’ moment, but the lashing by the players of the AFLW is over the top.

Wise people say the league made big mistakes from the start. It opened with an eight-team competition when there wasn’t enough talent and soon enough other clubs wanted in for fear of missing the wave and missing the money.

Two more teams are arriving in 2019 and four more in 2020.

All games were televised, which exposed the game too quickly.

They marketed too hard and created personalities and expectation when the lack of talent was soon obvious.

In reality it was an exhibition tournament, not a football competition.

“They sold it too hard,’’ one club official said.
“I understand you have to create heroes, but you can’t put them on a pedestal so high without any body of work … it just doesn’t make sense.’’

Dreams were built and believed and now they are shattered, the players say.

The messy fight centres on the players wanting to play nine home-and-away rounds and two weeks of finals next year and the AFL initially wanting six rounds and two weeks of finals. It will likely end up at seven.

Finding a window in which to compete that satisfies all parties in terms of commercial reality (it costs $10 million-plus to run the competition) and a fair competition (play each other once) is proving elusive and divisive.

The AFLW standard is only average. It’s played in slow motion on full-sized grounds with 16 players a side. Skills are poor. Fitness is improving, scoring is low — which upsets the main broadcaster — and most of half of the population won’t give it a second thought.

I watch it. I like the contest, the close games, the moments of brilliance and the players I’ve met. As a product, it’s quaint, perhaps suburban in essence, which is a good thing.

But the product is out of whack in regards to performance and its coverage.

The players like to call themselves elite, professional part-timers — and, yes, they sacrifice plenty to play — but with that has come a sense of entitlement.

That comes partly on the back of the AFL’s initial enthusiasm. Players were treated like rock stars.

Some were recruited from other sports. They were told they were the pioneers and their dreams would be real and realised. There were TV appearances, radio and newspaper interviews and media gigs.

“The AFL created this beast,’’ another club official said.

The women’s game all the way to the grassroots is thriving. There are talent pathways and investment has improved facilities at numerous footy grounds. This year there are 500,000 females playing the game.

In many respects, the AFL has done a brilliant job.

Yet, the players are angry with the AFL for what they say is a lack of planning and support for expansion.

Fox Sports’ Anna Harrington wrote on Thursday: “Unfortunately, its ambition to take over the female sporting landscape appears to be at odds with its willingness to back in its own product.’’

There’s the battleground. The players want an 11-week season. That means possibly starting in early January up against tennis, Big Bash and Test cricket, and the A-League.

There’s a suggestion to play the grand final as a curtain-raiser to Carlton-Richmond in Round 1 of the men’s competition and work back from there.

But the AFL wants it to stay an early February to mid-March event.

The TV component is intriguing.

There is no deal in place yet with Fox Footy or Channel 7. There will be a deal, but just how many games will be televised is the issue.

Do the networks really want more games when viewing numbers, outside of the first two rounds of season one, have been only modest and they have to pay production costs?

Maybe it’s two games a weekend and the rest streamed online, but would the players sacrifice television for more games?

“I reckon if you ask the players, they’d prefer to play nine games and have two or three on telly on the weekend as opposed to having every game broadcast with seven games,’’ one club official said.

Another disagreed.

“I think the players want to be on TV. They want it because they’re getting some spotlight and they love it and they want more games to have the spotlight longer. That said, the players would be better by playing more football and that’s where the AFL is shooting themselves in the foot. They want the product better, but they are reducing the number of games.’’

Another proposal is to play all nine rounds in the AFL’s preferred window with shorter breaks between rounds.

Clearly, the elephant in the room is the lack of talent and poor spectacle.

“You had the novelty in the first year, then people were going to be more discerning about the standard in the second year, and there was a drop off in people watching, but they keep putting new teams in and the standard will only get worse,’’ a club executive said.

It’s a mish-mash of money, exposure, talent, development and support and finding the right solution.

Maybe the AFL has to admit its expectation has cooled and, just maybe, the players have to chill out.

Unfortunately, you can’t always get what you want when you want it.

 

[Farm Boy]

That is a good article. I liked the bit about the product being substandard - it is. The quality of skill is low. There are too many teams and there is not enough talent. It is a rushed product. These are all pretty obvious talking points. Is the ground too big considering the poor standard? If the women had control of their own game they would have been in a position to make swift changes, and tinker with the game until it reached a suitable outcome. Perhaps even move away from Aussie Rules and towards a safer version of Gaelic/netball/football. It is an opportunity missed IMO, because as we look at the game of Aussie Rules, it is becoming more and more evident that it is a flawed game, and it will need to be changed. The AFL is going to be slow to make those changes. The women's game will now be even slower to see changes because they are not a priority for the AFL. Had the women of ran their own game they would have been ahead of the curb.

 

[Tandy]

Put 2 games on FTA Saturday day and Arvo and 1 on Sunday lunchtime. That way it can run into the AFL season and we all get extra football should be choose to watch it and they don't get in the way of the main competition.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ron The Bear]

Aaaarrrgh! The truth!!!!

 

[drunkill]

No one was stopping women playing football beforehand.

Actually, they were.
http://www.even[NB: girlsplayfooty domain has been taken over by a spammer.]/


Three girls had to take Football Victoria to court to allow girls to play footy (with boys) past the age of 12. This then helped to set up junior pathways for girls and an expanded amateur competition for women with the influx of new players.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/its-not-every-day-your-dream-comes-true-20170126-gtz268.html

 

[The_Wookie]

Aaaarrrgh! The truth!!!!

Remembering that the league planned for 2020 introduction initially, its likely that the league itself considers these first few years to be very formative rather than substantive. More of a marketing exercise aimed at participation and involvement and the prospect of a better future than anything else at this time.

Come 2020 with all teams in, and all development pathways established, and talent rolling in, AFLW will truly begin. Problem is the league never really communicated this to anyone - if thats the case.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Actually, they were.
http://www.even[NB: girlsplayfooty domain has been taken over by a spammer.]/


Three girls had to take Football Victoria to court to allow girls to play footy (with boys) past the age of 12. This then helped to set up junior pathways for girls and an expanded amateur competition for women with the influx of new players.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/its-not-every-day-your-dream-comes-true-20170126-gtz268.html

Completely irrelevant to my point & I agree that females shouldn't be playing a contact sport against males.

 

[Teen Wolf]

That is a good article. I liked the bit about the product being substandard - it is. The quality of skill is low. There are too many teams and there is not enough talent. It is a rushed product. These are all pretty obvious talking points. Is the ground too big considering the poor standard? If the women had control of their own game they would have been in a position to make swift changes, and tinker with the game until it reached a suitable outcome. Perhaps even move away from Aussie Rules and towards a safer version of Gaelic/netball/football. It is an opportunity missed IMO, because as we look at the game of Aussie Rules, it is becoming more and more evident that it is a flawed game, and it will need to be changed. The AFL is going to be slow to make those changes. The women's game will now be even slower to see changes because they are not a priority for the AFL. Had the women of ran their own game they would have been ahead of the curb.

Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, but I disagree with everything you wrote there.

A good article wouldn't be littered with quotes from anonymous insiders, friends and pals like the latest Brangelina hatchet job.

Besides that, the idea the AFL aren't happy with the talent pool directly contradicts their decision to grant six new licenses after the inaugural eight-team season. A two-month AFLW season is being considered for different reasons altogether.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Remembering that the league planned for 2020 introduction initially, its likely that the league itself considers these first few years to be very formative rather than substantive. More of a marketing exercise aimed at participation and involvement and the prospect of a better future than anything else at this time.

Come 2020 with all teams in, and all development pathways established, and talent rolling in, AFLW will truly begin. Problem is the league never really communicated this to anyone - if thats the case.

Which is the gist of the article, really - the players have unrealistic expectations.