AFL to mediate on Warnock deal.

[Blue Dawn]

Not quite.

"Connolly said Fremantle ruckman Robbie Warnock and Geelong midfielder Brent Prismall were still priorities for the club.

"We've certainly got our toe in the water with those two," Connolly said.

"We're pretty keen to keep pursuing those two and we're certainly in the hunt.

"We've certainly spoken again and reinforced our position and it's pretty positive."

http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=68796

Melbourne look keen to deal, they'll just need to meet his contractual requests, pretty sure he'll be happy going to melbourne with his brother if the deal is comparable. Schwab and Connolly know he's easily worth pick 19. He is young and could lead their ruck for 8-10 years, has good skills and is very mobile.

We won't get pick 6, but what else are we supposed to ask for in the bargaining process? Its only wednesday FFS. Carlton will probably need a sweetner to add to pick 24, pick 40 should do.......we'll even throw in 53 or Scott Thornton, if you squint he looks a bit like David Rhys-Jones....lol

You've obviously got no idea Loris. Do you think everybody on here is in such heated debate with the 'purple haze' because we've nothing better to do!? Pick 24 is fair - you're not getting #40 as well FFS! It's a STRONG draft this year, last accessible one for some years in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[raffrox]

You've obviously got no idea Loris. Do you think everybody on here is in such heated debate with the 'purple haze' because we've nothing better to do!? Pick 24 is fair - you're not getting #40 as well FFS! It's a STRONG draft this year, last accessible one for some years in case you hadn't noticed.

Saying the same thing, over and over, over and over, over and over again doesn't make it valid.

 

[jonoman89]

The simple fact is we believe Robbie is worth pick 24 to us. He isn't worth more, he isn't worth less. With all this mediation shit going on it only proves how adament we are with the trade.

Personally, i don't really care that much where he goes. He'd be a nice addition, but he isn't that important to us in the scheme of things. We already have the core group of players we need, he'd just be the icing. If Melbourne offer 17 or 19 for him, go ahead, give him to Melbourne.

I just find all this "line in the sand" stuff funny. It only proves how pathetic you know you are and how you feel like the need to make a "big statement" to prove yourselves as hard ballers. Unfortunately for you though, acting all "oh we'll just send him to the PSD to make a statement" just shows your stupidity.

Do you actually think any other club gives a shit what you do with him? Do you think this "statement" will change perceptions of your club? Do you think we will be crying because we get to keep 24 and draft a forward (that we desperately need)? Do you ACTUALLY think the stance you are taking now is going to achieve anything in the long run?

Simple fact is, if you hesitate enough on your options he WILL end up in the PSD and he WILL go to Melbourne and you WON'T get a single thing for it. We were nice in the Judd trade, we didn't force PSD and get him for nothing. We've never done that. I don't know what Melbourne would be like though.....

If you don't want our pick 24, then look elsewhere. I'm sick and tired of this useless banter, because obviously our positions won't change.

All i hope for now is that Robbie doesn't get f***ed on.

 

[Embers]

The simple fact is we believe Robbie is worth pick 24 to us. He isn't worth more, he isn't worth less. With all this mediation shit going on it only proves how adament we are with the trade.

Personally, i don't really care that much where he goes. He'd be a nice addition, but he isn't that important to us in the scheme of things. We already have the core group of players we need, he'd just be the icing. If Melbourne offer 17 or 19 for him, go ahead, give him to Melbourne.

I just find all this "line in the sand" stuff funny. It only proves how pathetic you know you are and how you feel like the need to make a "big statement" to prove yourselves as hard ballers. Unfortunately for you though, acting all "oh we'll just send him to the PSD to make a statement" just shows your stupidity.

Do you actually think any other club gives a shit what you do with him? Do you think this "statement" will change perceptions of your club? Do you think we will be crying because we get to keep 24 and draft a forward (that we desperately need)? Do you ACTUALLY think the stance you are taking now is going to achieve anything in the long run?

Simple fact is, if you hesitate enough on your options he WILL end up in the PSD and he WILL go to Melbourne and you WON'T get a single thing for it. We were nice in the Judd trade, we didn't force PSD and get him for nothing. We've never done that. I don't know what Melbourne would be like though.....

If you don't want our pick 24, then look elsewhere. I'm sick and tired of this useless banter, because obviously our positions won't change.

All i hope for now is that Robbie doesn't get f***ed on.

LOL. No one deserves to get ****ed on more than poor ol Robbie. Ask any West Perth player what they think of him. Hes a weed.

 

[thebaxters]

A trade isn’t about what is acceptable to one party, it’s about what is acceptable to both. Pick 17 is better for Freo than Pick 24. If Carlton don’t see this as being an issue and not really all that different, then the onus should be on them to trade for Pick 17. It shouldn’t be that hard for them to deal with Melbourne – after all, there really is no difference...

There’s a lot of discussion about Pick 24 being fair and market value. Well, if the Dees are prepared to put Pick 17/19 on the table, then that is Warnock’s market value. Market value isn’t defined as what most clubs would pay, it’s what the club offering the most will pay.

The whole restraint of trade rubbish being rolled out in this thread is BS. The employer here is the AFL, it is an employer with Branches (Clubs) in 5 states. Restraint of trade is not sending you to Branch B vs C within the same company, it is not letting you work in any of the Branches. That’s not what is happening here. Branch A (Fremantle) is saying “OK, we don’t really want you to transfer to another Branch, but if they will send someone to replace you (aka pick and/or player), we’ll do it”.

Warnock: “I like the look of Branch B (Blues), they are close to my family and mates, plus they will increase my salary a bucketload more than you guys will”.

Fremantle: “OK, we’ll talk with them… um, Rob, they’re not really offering us anyone in return we think is as competent as you, but we think we’ve found someone at Branch C (Dees) who would work well for us too as your replacement, and they are also close to your family and mates. How’s that sound?”

Warnock: “But they won’t pay me as much. I want to work in Branch B.”

Fremantle: “Tough t***ies. The health of this Branch is more important to the Company than your personal desires for wealth. You’ll still get a good raise at Branch C, plus you get the transfer back to your family and friends you said you wanted. Maybe if you’d worked harder during your time here, Branch B would see how much value you believe you have, and would be willing to offer us a replacement we think is what you worth. We’re more than happy to send you to Branch B, why don’t you convince them of what you’re worth? Otherwise it’s Branch C.”

The only complicating factor here is that the AFL is like a monopoly – there is no other Company like it in Australia. But that’s neither here nor there. For restraint of trade to stand up, Freo would need to be saying to Carlton “give us a deal that suits us or Robbie, will never play again” (as an aside it’s why the AFL are so keen to get an apprenticeship/qualification/degree into these kids – if life doesn’t work out in one prospective job field (footy), they have something to fall back on).

But this whole “go home” factor is a crock. If you want to work for the AFL, you need to understand that it is a national Company, and over the course of your career, you may be required to work in parts of the country that are not your home. If you don’t accept those terms, then don’t sign up and go find yourself a job in another field. Can’t see why football should be treated differently than any other field.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Excellent post. Unfortunately it'll be picked to pieces and you'll start arguing things that aren't the point. Such is the nature of BigFooty.

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

Carlton should stop waving money in the faces of other clubs players and then refusing to make offers to the club that are in the ballpark of what other clubs are offering for the same player

What? How are we not offering what the other clubs are offering?

Melbourne are the only other club interested and they are offering their second round pick (or the priority pick) NOT a first round pick.

We are also offering our second round pick.

Just because they were terrible this year and have a pick 5 spots higher means that we aren't playing fair?

 

[kingross29]

whats wrong with pick 6 to freo? seriously it's more than fair

Thats more like it

 

[kingross29]

Stop mentioning Pick 6, because this just shows that you dont understand or recognise football talent and ability.

Wood was a first round pick. And Brisbane got compinsated adequatly for him.

Warnock was not a first round pick so this 'potential' was not like Wood and stop kidding yourselves he has not set the world on fire yet. I say yet because yes he is tall and looks like he could be a goer, but he is not a goer. He is a very average footballer right now. If you were trading based on what a player might be in 5 years then James Sellar is worth the number 1 pick. He was considered a top 5 even top 3 chance at times. He was drafted in the first round. He hasn't done so much yet, but his potential is enormous, we all know how good he can be. So if he does keep getting stronger, we know how good he will be in 5 years so anything less than pick 1 is probably unfair then? UTTER RUBBISH.

Ryan Okeefe can demand a first round pick as he is a quality forward, one of the best. (only one as he is 28)
Daniel Kerr can demand 2 first round picks as he is one of the best mids in the comp.
Robert Warnock has done nothing. Has shown bits and pieces, is young, is tall but has done nothing. You're getting offered a early second round choice. Which is 5 spots from this pick 19 that you would accept from Melbourne and that you all think is fair. 5 spots!!!!

It's cute to see Freo trying to play hard ball and show there Kahunas to every one but we all know how this will end, and unfortunatlly this whole Warnock saga has shown how bloody stupid some Fremantle supporters are!!!
Thank you. That is all.

You are the stuid supporter here buddy. Just because Wood was a 1st rounder doesnt mean he has more potential, and doesnt mean the club should be compensated more. Matt Thomas from port was a 1st round draft pick and now Richmond are going to get him for about pick 42. Meesen and Watts were 1st round draft picks werent they? Did you get adequatly compensated for those picks? NO. It's not our fault you cannot draft talent in the later rounds, or at all really, (Adelaide have not drafted an AA under Neil Craig) and just because Warnock was drafted in the 40's, doesnt mean a pick in the 20's would be ok. Chris Grant was drafted pick 105 and went on to become a 300+gamer for the bulldogs. Should they have accepted a pick in the 50's for him? NO

Now Warnock is talent and is going to be a gun. Carlton really want him, and want to put him on big money. We dont want him to go, but he wants to leave and Carlton is his preferred (not only) destination. Josh Carr wanted to come home to us and we had to pay thru the nose to get him. Carlton can do the same or get lost. We said pick 24 is not enough, improve your offer or move on.

WOuld you accept 24 for griffin if he was out of contract this year? Youwouldnt would you, and YET Warnock is WAY better then Griffin so shut your trap

 

[pinkus maximus]

Dean Bailey has apparantly flown out to Bali tonight to meet with Warnock

Interesting times ahead

 

[Crow-mo]

Saying the same thing, over and over, over and over, over and over again doesn't make it valid.

very true

 

[Crow-mo]

The same one that Icke, Schwab and Connolly have been watching and they're all very keen to get him to their respective clubs. Coincidence?

ah yes, the obvious logic fail in action.

where does someone's interest in an uncontracted player with some potential, who wants to come home, meet at the intersection with the ZOMG!!!!!! I must have him at whatever the cost, he is the bestest!! ZOMG!!!!!!

no, I don't know either.

 

[Bestbird]

Dean Bailey has apparantly flown out to Bali tonight to meet with Warnock

Interesting times ahead

Good news for the dockers if thats the case

I really can't see Carlton being able to trade for a mid teen draft pick, no matter how much mediation occurs.

More so as it appears that almost all clubs are reluctant to trade early draft picks due to the apparent depth of the draft this year combined with the compromised drafts in the coming years

 

[Crow-mo]

A trade isn’t about what is acceptable to one party, it’s about what is acceptable to both. Pick 17 is better for Freo than Pick 24. If Carlton don’t see this as being an issue and not really all that different, then the onus should be on them to trade for Pick 17. It shouldn’t be that hard for them to deal with Melbourne – after all, there really is no difference...

its not a free market, so you're point is null and void.

There’s a lot of discussion about Pick 24 being fair and market value. Well, if the Dees are prepared to put Pick 17/19 on the table, then that is Warnock’s market value. Market value isn’t defined as what most clubs would pay, it’s what the club offering the most will pay.

and there is no evidence that melbourne have put 17/19 on the table.

NONE.

The whole restraint of trade rubbish being rolled out in this thread is BS. The employer here is the AFL, it is an employer with Branches (Clubs) in 5 states. Restraint of trade is not sending you to Branch B vs C within the same company, it is not letting you work in any of the Branches. That’s not what is happening here. Branch A (Fremantle) is saying “OK, we don’t really want you to transfer to another Branch, but if they will send someone to replace you (aka pick and/or player), we’ll do it”.

fiction, and misunderstanding on your behalf. it is not as easy as just declaring how YOU would like to think of it.

Warnock: “I like the look of Branch B (Blues), they are close to my family and mates, plus they will increase my salary a bucketload more than you guys will”.

Fremantle: “OK, we’ll talk with them… um, Rob, they’re not really offering us anyone in return we think is as competent as you, but we think we’ve found someone at Branch C (Dees) who would work well for us too as your replacement, and they are also close to your family and mates. How’s that sound?”

Warnock: “But they won’t pay me as much. I want to work in Branch B.”

Fremantle: “Tough t***ies. The health of this Branch is more important to the Company than your personal desires for wealth. You’ll still get a good raise at Branch C, plus you get the transfer back to your family and friends you said you wanted. Maybe if you’d worked harder during your time here, Branch B would see how much value you believe you have, and would be willing to offer us a replacement we think is what you worth. We’re more than happy to send you to Branch B, why don’t you convince them of what you’re worth? Otherwise it’s Branch C.”

more nonsense. and fairly inexperienced nonsense at that.

The only complicating factor here is that the AFL is like a monopoly – there is no other Company like it in Australia. But that’s neither here nor there. For restraint of trade to stand up, Freo would need to be saying to Carlton “give us a deal that suits us or Robbie, will never play again” (as an aside it’s why the AFL are so keen to get an apprenticeship/qualification/degree into these kids – if life doesn’t work out in one prospective job field (footy), they have something to fall back on).

no, you're wrong. legally speaking its status has not been determined, and that is the big hold up in all of this speculation.

for it to be a monopoly it probably needs to be ruled an industry, which will very much make it a restraint eligible situation.

if it is just a single employer in the field of sports & entertainment, then it is not anything like a monopoly and such restraints are eligible to be collectively bargained.

But this whole “go home” factor is a crock. If you want to work for the AFL, you need to understand that it is a national Company, and over the course of your career, you may be required to work in parts of the country that are not your home. If you don’t accept those terms, then don’t sign up and go find yourself a job in another field. Can’t see why football should be treated differently than any other field.

[/quote]

as usual, there are an awful lot of unstable assumptions and plain untruths underpinning a lot of your points, but this is some validity interspersed along the way.

 

[Crow-mo]

Excellent post. Unfortunately it'll be picked to pieces and you'll start arguing things that aren't the point. Such is the nature of BigFooty.

it is not an excellent post, there is very little fact or solid analysis at all.

just a lot of how I kinda see it, and think things should be.

 

[Abaddon]

A trade isn’t about what is acceptable to one party, it’s about what is acceptable to both. Pick 17 is better for Freo than Pick 24. If Carlton don’t see this as being an issue and not really all that different, then the onus should be on them to trade for Pick 17. It shouldn’t be that hard for them to deal with Melbourne – after all, there really is no difference...

There’s a lot of discussion about Pick 24 being fair and market value. Well, if the Dees are prepared to put Pick 17/19 on the table, then that is Warnock’s market value. Market value isn’t defined as what most clubs would pay, it’s what the club offering the most will pay.

You have forgotten the fact is Warnock is out of contract. He has to agree to the trade. He doesn't want to be traded to Melbourne. He wants to be traded to Carlton. So whatever Melbourne is prepared to offer is meangingless as he doesn't want to play there. If he wanted to play at Melbourne it would be a different issue as he would agree to the trade. Out of all of Carltons draft picks he is not worth pick 1 and he is worth more than pick 3, so pick 2 (overall pick 24) is his value. If he wanted to go to Melbourne he could go there in the PSD and let Melbourne keep pick 19, so to claim he's worth pick 19 when Melbourne would not offer pick 19 (because they are in a position to get him for free) is crazy.

 

[Moo]

If he puts a 1yr $600k deal on his head - Freo aren't going to recruit him

It is a very poor bluff - everyone knows it - Steven Icke said so last night on the radio.

There's never been a case of a team re-recruiting a player that doesn't want to be there. Especially one with an expensive one year deal that would walk the following year

There had never been a case of an umpire marking a ball.

There had never been a case of a field umpire not hearing a siren and keeping a game going even though he was being told the siren had gone.

There had never been a case of the AFL reversing a decision.

There has never been a case of a wild haired albino being taken as number 1 in the draft.

Mate redrafting Warny this wouldn't even ran in the top 5 el bizzaro moments in our history to date.

Also we would get 2 years out of him or perhaps one more season of Carlton getting smashed in the ruck and hampson hankering for the Gold Coast may see an improved offer - plus we get another year of development into Connolly.

Carlton on Connolly - he should be ready in about 3 or 4 years so no rush on him.

Actually not true.. Warnock can put a price on his head... so that Melbourne can't afford to pick him up and Carlton will.

B2B I could take you more seriously if every post on Freo you had ever made had not been OTT negative.

All i hope for now is that Robbie doesn't get f***ed on.

Yeah like Thornton when you used the threat of the PSD to keep him.

Poor old Robbie - getting payed heaps to play footy ....I am literally sobbing.

it is not an excellent post, there is very little fact or solid analysis at all.

just a lot of how I kinda see it, and think things should be.

Mate it is Big Footy not 'Industrial Lawyer & Hooters Weekly'

Plus you are quick to point out fact from fiction ....you can not state as a fact whether it is not excellent this is just your opinion...therefore your post is technically incorrect.

I request your comments be stricken from the record.

Gavel falls ....sustained

Thank you sir.

It struck me as being an excellent post too.

 

[Keele]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24466939-23211,00.html

The Hawthorn-O'Keefe deal may produce a run of trades, with Melbourne interested in moving Brad Green to Sydney for pick 16 which would in turn allow them to offer pick 17 to Fremantle for ruckman Robert Warnock.

Warnock has said he wants to play for Carlton, who have pick 24 on offer, but the bigger issue for the Demons is Green's reluctance to move to Sydney. He is keen to leave Melbourne, the football club, but not the city.

"We'll wait until Fremantle and Carlton can't do a deal and then see what eventuates," Melbourne football manager Chris Connolly said.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

The whole restraint of trade rubbish being rolled out in this thread is BS. The employer here is the AFL, it is an employer with Branches (Clubs) in 5 states. Restraint of trade is not sending you to Branch B vs C within the same company, it is not letting you work in any of the Branches. That’s not what is happening here. Branch A (Fremantle) is saying “OK, we don’t really want you to transfer to another Branch, but if they will send someone to replace you (aka pick and/or player), we’ll do it”.

Warnock: “I like the look of Branch B (Blues), they are close to my family and mates, plus they will increase my salary a bucketload more than you guys will”.

Fremantle: “OK, we’ll talk with them… um, Rob, they’re not really offering us anyone in return we think is as competent as you, but we think we’ve found someone at Branch C (Dees) who would work well for us too as your replacement, and they are also close to your family and mates. How’s that sound?”

Warnock: “But they won’t pay me as much. I want to work in Branch B.”

Fremantle: “Tough t***ies. The health of this Branch is more important to the Company than your personal desires for wealth. You’ll still get a good raise at Branch C, plus you get the transfer back to your family and friends you said you wanted. Maybe if you’d worked harder during your time here, Branch B would see how much value you believe you have, and would be willing to offer us a replacement we think is what you worth. We’re more than happy to send you to Branch B, why don’t you convince them of what you’re worth? Otherwise it’s Branch C.”

No offence, but this is complete rubbish. For starters, the AFL is not the employer, they are an overarching regulatory vody that provides the framework which the clubs compete in. I agree it's a slightly unique situation in that the AFL actively contributes to the management of some teams, but suggesting that they are the emplyers and the clubs are the branches, is akin to suggesting that ASIC employs all accountants, and corporations are merely branches.

If we were talking about cricket or rugby union, where a significant portion of the players derive their salary through contracts directly with the ARU or ACB, your argument may have some merit, but we're not, and it doesn't.

 

[rotto]

what about?
1. warnock + 21 + 53 = 6 + 40
2. warnock + 37 = bower + 24
3. warnock = walker
4. warnock = picks 10-17
5. warnock + 37 = grigg + 24
6. warnock + 53 = browne + 24 + 40
7. warnock + 37 = bower + grigg
8. warnock + 53= 24 + jordan

 

[bLUE_bALLs]

Dean Bailey has apparantly flown out to Bali tonight to meet with Warnock

Interesting times ahead

Gee. I hope he doesn't use another powerpoint presentation to lure him.
LOL

Melbourne & Freo.... such B grade proffesional clubs

 

[4blues]

Dean Bailey has apparantly flown out to Bali tonight to meet with Warnock

Interesting times ahead

Where did Melbourne get the money for the airfare? Or did Sylvia pay for the ticket too?
Lets hope Bailey gets his hair braided while hes there.

 

[nurries]

Gee. I hope he doesn't use another powerpoint presentation to lure him.
LOL

Melbourne & Freo.... such B grade proffesional clubs

Nah it will be 1.4M over 4 years. Hello pick 17. See ya Carlton

 

[mediumsizered]

Nah it will be 1.4M over 4 years. Hello pick 17. See ya Carlton

If Melbourne pay Pick 17 for Warnock when they could get him for nothing in the PSD, certain members of the football department will be looking for new jobs. Just as Richmond & the media kept suggesting they would offer up Pick 2, 17 & 19 to secure Judd ahead of Carlton, this talk of Melbourne offering up Pick 17 or 19, is just that, talk. Talking tough when they know they aren't part of the equation is so easy.

 

[Bosun]

what about?
1. warnock + 21 + 53 = 6 + 40
2. warnock + 37 = bower + 24
3. warnock = walker
4. warnock = picks 10-17
5. warnock + 37 = grigg + 24
6. warnock + 53 = browne + 24 + 40
7. warnock + 37 = bower + grigg
8. warnock + 53= 24 + jordan

For number 8 do you mean jordan russell or jordan bannister, either way that is the only one I would look at accepting. Bower and Grigg would be offlimits in any speculative trade and if Walker was to be traded it would be for much more than Warnock.