Academy Watch

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briztoon said:
Just checking, you know Lombard isn't the captain.

Still, a lot of players did look for him with their kicks out of defence today.
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No, as in there seemed to be a clear directive to kick to the captain last week despite having other decent options up forward. Fair enough do it at times but the predictability was the downfall of the Allies.
 
briztoon said:
Just saying that's what a lot of posters on other boards and the draft board, level at both players, often questioning their hurt factor, etc.

I believe once in an AFL system, most players, especially young players, play a role on their team, and don't have the luxury to ball hog (unless you play for the Bulldogs).
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We talking knowledgeable posters who are respected draft watchers? Or people on the Norf and west coast boards who have vested interests in talking them down.

I was a bit worried about Will's balance of accumulation vs hurt factor but after he found his feet he was pretty damaging with his disposal.

Certainly didn't see a heap of Tom Rockliff-esque cheap 15m kick mark stuff.
 
Tom14 said:
We talking knowledgeable posters who are respected draft watchers?
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Mostly the draft board. I don't frequent the North board.
Tom14 said:
Or people on the Norf and west coast boards who have vested interests in talking them down.

I was a bit worried about Will's balance of accumulation vs hurt factor but after he found his feet he was pretty damaging with his disposal.
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Wills game drastically changed in how he played at Sandringham and how he plays for the Lions. I mentioned this halfway through his first season.
Tom14 said:
Certainly didn't see a heap of Tom Rockliff-esque cheap 15m kick mark stuff.
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No, Will and Levi's games at Sandringham are largely running games, getting the ball two or three times in a handball chain, with the quality of the final kick dependant on if they have run themself in to trouble or not.
 

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briztoon said:
Mostly the draft board. I don't frequent the North board.

Wills game drastically changed in how he played at Sandringham and how he plays for the Lions. I mentioned this halfway through his first season.

No, Will and Levi's games at Sandringham are largely running games, getting the ball two or three times in a handball chain, with the quality of the final kick dependant on if they have run themself in to trouble or not.
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Yeah we definitely don't play a style conducive to that sort of link up all that often. I do recall a fair amount of discussion on draft threads about Will as well but from memory a lot of the more critical people were those who did have vested interests.

Certainly though quite a few people (including all the Rookie Me people) had Wardlaw above Will pre-draft and I can see why.
 
Nunez said:
Lombard is a bit of a ball hog from what I've seen oh him. Did he get his team mates involved in the game this time around?
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I've seen this mentioned about several players in the last 6-8 months.

How can you be a ball hog? The name of the game is to get the ball, and maintain possession, and ideally move it up the ground to score.

Footy is not really a game where you can 'hog' it. If you get it alot, well done. Rarely to people get it, and then not either dispose of it or score - you can't just 'hog' it, thats now how our game works.

Sure, you could be accused of trying to do too much, or taking the game on too often instead of giving first option, but 'hogging' the footy is something that stops in about u10s
 
Miller1971 said:
I've seen this mentioned about several players in the last 6-8 months.

How can you be a ball hog? The name of the game is to get the ball, and maintain possession, and ideally move it up the ground to score.

Footy is not really a game where you can 'hog' it. If you get it alot, well done. Rarely to people get it, and then not either dispose of it or score - you can't just 'hog' it, thats now how our game works.

Sure, you could be accused of trying to do too much, or taking the game on too often instead of giving first option, but 'hogging' the footy is something that stops in about u10s
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To clarify, my use of calling Lombard a ball hog in game 1 was is lack of willingness to share the ball and trying to do everything himself. He was trying to do way too much and could have involved his team mates more.

Sounds like he fixed that up a bit in game 2 which is good to hear.
 
Gallop was left out due poor workrate, barely got up the ground at all and just sat in the goalsquare.

Richardson is an overager who is a bit undersized as a ruck, but can play at either end and has good skills. Worked really hard to get his fitness up and looks good. He didn't play the first Allies game.

Gilder is a bit of a mythical creature, everyone talks him up - but he never really dominates games. He is undersized as a KPD, but just never loses a contest, ever. However, he isn't very attacking and his kicking looks a little underdone. At 191cm, he is ridiculously quick and agile, so could settle as a good 3rd tall type. (almost like the recently retired Nathn Murphy, but with more closing speed)

Marshall will cop a 2nd round bid on him I reckon, knows how to find the footy and has had faultless campaigns as a 17/18 year old. Not sure why he didn't play any academy games this year.

Annable is the real deal, first rounder in 2025 for sure.
 
OnLooker1932 said:
Gallop was left out due poor workrate, barely got up the ground at all and just sat in the goalsquare.

Richardson is an overager who is a bit undersized as a ruck, but can play at either end and has good skills. Worked really hard to get his fitness up and looks good. He didn't play the first Allies game.

Gilder is a bit of a mythical creature, everyone talks him up - but he never really dominates games. He is undersized as a KPD, but just never loses a contest, ever. However, he isn't very attacking and his kicking looks a little underdone. At 191cm, he is ridiculously quick and agile, so could settle as a good 3rd tall type. (almost like the recently retired Nathn Murphy, but with more closing speed)

Marshall will cop a 2nd round bid on him I reckon, knows how to find the footy and has had faultless campaigns as a 17/18 year old. Not sure why he didn't play any academy games this year.

Annable is the real deal, first rounder in 2025 for sure.
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Thanks for the update! Can be hard to read performances based off the stream alone so appreciate the context. Hopefully Gallop takes that feedback and gets his workrate up.

How is Ben Lillico going? Looked very promising from what I've seen, albeit once again relying on Livestreams!
 
Nunez said:
How is Ben Lillico going? Looked very promising from what I've seen, albeit once again relying on Livestreams!
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Extremely promising talent, but now the u18 academy stuff is over, I suspect he will play u19 club football as he doesn't yet have the size to compete at Senior level.

He isn't yet 17, so no rush
 
OnLooker1932 said:
Extremely promising talent, but now the u18 academy stuff is over, I suspect he will play u19 club football as he doesn't yet have the size to compete at Senior level.

He isn't yet 17, so no rush
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Didn't realise he wasn't even 17 yet. To use a lame cliche, he has the footy chip. Just seems to read contents extremely well and then knows how to use it.
 
Yes, he is a smart footballer and good in traffic.

My only question mark on him is how one-sided he is.

Smart players will work out pretty quickly that he always turns onto his left no matter what, and defend him accordingly. Haven't watched him a whole lot, but the one thing I recall is that I don't think I saw a right foot kick, not even a get out of jail scrubber. Just turns back into traffic, or u-turns to feedback or switch on his left.

Works pretty well for him due to the level hes been playing at, but it won't work at the higher level stuff.
 
OnLooker1932 said:
Yes, he is a smart footballer and good in traffic.

My only question mark on him is how one-sided he is.

Smart players will work out pretty quickly that he always turns onto his left no matter what, and defend him accordingly. Haven't watched him a whole lot, but the one thing I recall is that I don't think I saw a right foot kick, not even a get out of jail scrubber. Just turns back into traffic, or u-turns to feedback or switch on his left.

Works pretty well for him due to the level hes been playing at, but it won't work at the higher level stuff.
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Thankfully a learnable skill, especially if he came to Brisbane where having a left and right is trained. Hopefully he gets that feedback now and he can work on it.
 
OnLooker1932 said:
Gallop was left out due poor workrate, barely got up the ground at all and just sat in the goalsquare.

Richardson is an overager who is a bit undersized as a ruck, but can play at either end and has good skills. Worked really hard to get his fitness up and looks good. He didn't play the first Allies game.

Gilder is a bit of a mythical creature, everyone talks him up - but he never really dominates games. He is undersized as a KPD, but just never loses a contest, ever. However, he isn't very attacking and his kicking looks a little underdone. At 191cm, he is ridiculously quick and agile, so could settle as a good 3rd tall type. (almost like the recently retired Nathn Murphy, but with more closing speed)

Marshall will cop a 2nd round bid on him I reckon, knows how to find the footy and has had faultless campaigns as a 17/18 year old. Not sure why he didn't play any academy games this year.
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Had private school, which takes priority over CTL games.

I won’t be surprised if Marshall gets bid on late first round.
OnLooker1932 said:
Annable is the real deal, first rounder in 2025 for sure.
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Suns lack talent in that age group. Lions lack ability to identify talent in that age group.

Swans also appear to have finalised their squad many months ago, they are all 16, well developed athletes. Swans run it like a proper holistic academy for full development. Suns do as well to a similar degree, but there really isn't any talent in that age group on the GC
 
Miller1971 said:
Suns lack talent in that age group. Lions lack ability to identify talent in that age group.

Swans also appear to have finalised their squad many months ago, they are all 16, well developed athletes. Swans run it like a proper holistic academy for full development. Suns do as well to a similar degree, but there really isn't any talent in that age group on the GC
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What would you say the Lions need to do, to fix all the issues they have with the academy and identifying talent?
 
Employ people who make the effort to watch 5+ youth games per weekend, rather than sit back and let the (flawed) school sports system run their regional trials and just get a list of names they have never seen play.

Employ outsiders who are football people who have no local club affiliation.

Run open invitation selection trials (like both Suns and Swans do) where they may uncover an enthusiastic kid who can really play, but is playing Div 4 at some local club.

Don't tell kids they need to change clubs to get noticed and/or develop - it ruins the club competitions and just shows they can't be bothered doing their job. Have a look for dominant teams in different divisions, make an effort to attend a few games and you might find those teams are dominant for a reason. Look for kids playing out of their age group in high quality teams.

Publish a proper calendar for each age group, stick to it, communicate with clubs, players and parents and play more actual match simulation, rather than getting 100 kids down to Coorparoo or Aspley to run training sessions that are no better than your average club session, but kids (and their families) feel obligated to attend.

When running intra clubs, ask each player where they think they are best suited, and despite any pre-concieved opinion, ensure they all get time in their preferred position and explain deficiencies in preferred position and potential strengths in alternative position to consider a change for that player. Keep a record ensuring everyone that has attended months of training got a genuinely adequate opportunity in these intraclubs.

Do IDP's that are updated fortnightly with constant individual feedback to kids on how they are tracking. (in some cases an early heads up on where they are at might see them make the decision to exit early if they are doing 3 hour round trips to get to training when their card has already been marked)

More high quality, high intensity training, instead of multiple sessions a week that are glorified lane work. Less is more, with elite coaches giving genuinely high performance coaching.

These are just basic starting points, don't think any of this is rocket science?
 
Miller1971 said:
Employ people who make the effort to watch 5+ youth games per weekend, rather than sit back and let the (flawed) school sports system run their regional trials and just get a list of names they have never seen play.

Employ outsiders who are football people who have no local club affiliation.

Run open invitation selection trials (like both Suns and Swans do) where they may uncover an enthusiastic kid who can really play, but is playing Div 4 at some local club.

Don't tell kids they need to change clubs to get noticed and/or develop - it ruins the club competitions and just shows they can't be bothered doing their job. Have a look for dominant teams in different divisions, make an effort to attend a few games and you might find those teams are dominant for a reason. Look for kids playing out of their age group in high quality teams.

Publish a proper calendar for each age group, stick to it, communicate with clubs, players and parents and play more actual match simulation, rather than getting 100 kids down to Coorparoo or Aspley to run training sessions that are no better than your average club session, but kids (and their families) feel obligated to attend.

When running intra clubs, ask each player where they think they are best suited, and despite any pre-concieved opinion, ensure they all get time in their preferred position and explain deficiencies in preferred position and potential strengths in alternative position to consider a change for that player. Keep a record ensuring everyone that has attended months of training got a genuinely adequate opportunity in these intraclubs.

Do IDP's that are updated fortnightly with constant individual feedback to kids on how they are tracking. (in some cases an early heads up on where they are at might see them make the decision to exit early if they are doing 3 hour round trips to get to training when their card has already been marked)

More high quality, high intensity training, instead of multiple sessions a week that are glorified lane work. Less is more, with elite coaches giving genuinely high performance coaching.

These are just basic starting points, don't think any of this is rocket science?
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Great stuff. What is an IDP?
 
Miller1971 said:
Employ people who make the effort to watch 5+ youth games per weekend, rather than sit back and let the (flawed) school sports system run their regional trials and just get a list of names they have never seen play.

Employ outsiders who are football people who have no local club affiliation.

Run open invitation selection trials (like both Suns and Swans do) where they may uncover an enthusiastic kid who can really play, but is playing Div 4 at some local club.

Don't tell kids they need to change clubs to get noticed and/or develop - it ruins the club competitions and just shows they can't be bothered doing their job. Have a look for dominant teams in different divisions, make an effort to attend a few games and you might find those teams are dominant for a reason. Look for kids playing out of their age group in high quality teams.

Publish a proper calendar for each age group, stick to it, communicate with clubs, players and parents and play more actual match simulation, rather than getting 100 kids down to Coorparoo or Aspley to run training sessions that are no better than your average club session, but kids (and their families) feel obligated to attend.

When running intra clubs, ask each player where they think they are best suited, and despite any pre-concieved opinion, ensure they all get time in their preferred position and explain deficiencies in preferred position and potential strengths in alternative position to consider a change for that player. Keep a record ensuring everyone that has attended months of training got a genuinely adequate opportunity in these intraclubs.

Do IDP's that are updated fortnightly with constant individual feedback to kids on how they are tracking. (in some cases an early heads up on where they are at might see them make the decision to exit early if they are doing 3 hour round trips to get to training when their card has already been marked)

More high quality, high intensity training, instead of multiple sessions a week that are glorified lane work. Less is more, with elite coaches giving genuinely high performance coaching.

These are just basic starting points, don't think any of this is rocket science?
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anonymous872 keen for your input as someone who appears connected to the academy.
 
These issues been kicking around for yonks. Not great but also if the talent is there it usually rises to the top anyway. Usually…

Not many of these “overlooked” youth end up carving a career at a club especially given there are many pathways to make it to an AFL list if you desire. Sure it’s not great but it’s not the end of the world if you get snubbed by (according to some on this forum) subpar Brisbane lions academy.

But I think we should have really invested more resources into it. Prob funds the reason why we can’t or have not been able to. Not like we are the latest expansion side with afl funding everything.
 
Harris Andrews was snubbed for 5 years. His club (Aspley Hornets) basically begged them to have another look at him in his 18th year.

Who knows where he would be if a good footy manager at Aspley didn't make the time to plead his case?

I think any footy fan (and specifically Lions fans) should be happy the Hornets did what the academy staff couldn't and identified his All-Australian talent levels.

Best bit is how the Lions love to spruik him as an academy success story!
 
Miller1971 said:
Harris Andrews was snubbed for 5 years. His club (Aspley Hornets) basically begged them to have another look at him in his 18th year.

Who knows where he would be if a good footy manager at Aspley didn't make the time to plead his case?

I think any footy fan (and specifically Lions fans) should be happy the Hornets did what the academy staff couldn't and identified his All-Australian talent levels.

Best bit is how the Lions love to spruik him as an academy success story!
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Well he is a success story. Your second paragraph sums it up.

Doesn't mean the academies are serving the young footballers as well as it could be for the club it was definitely a success story
 

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